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YoYo

HP Reverb Second Generation 2020

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So.... looks like new physical ipd adjustment and two new cameras for better tracking in darker rooms :)

 

0l2mQgrl.jpg

 

If FOV will be increased to 130 with the same vertical resolution 2160pxt it will be perfect!

Edited by YoYo
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Too bad it will take at least 2 years for other computer hardware to catch up so it can reliably generate 180fps at 4k resolution to properly feed this thing while running IL2 or DCS (or to be specific: 2 x 2k at 90fps each which is actually worse because it draws two separate images).

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I've run that amount of pixels necessary at 90Hz. Not in ultra, but possible on high. On the western front map only turning off shadows or distant buildings will save you though. The others are fine.

 

My MSI RTX2080ti trio X gaming can do that. It's not an everyday card though. The CPU isn't loaded more heavily by resolution and since the new patch we've had another performance boost.

 

The point is, the hardware exists. 

 

P.S. Need wide FOV though. Pimax spoiled me.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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6 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

I've run that amount of pixels necessary at 90Hz. Not in ultra, but possible.

 

 

With reprojection off, in career mode, with ultra shadows and high clouds ? Impossible. On the other hand if somebody is happy with minimal/primitive graphics settings, then yes I guess you can barely pull it off, but be aware that in VR the graphics render in real scale (ie. they are vastly enlarged) which results in glaringly obvious amplification of those primitive graphics. It can get really jarring, like a video game from 1980s, especially close to the ground. On a positive note: the cockpits look marvellous (I saw details I never noticed in 2d) and the feeling of "being there" is uncomparable. As an owner of HP Reverb, I speak from personal experience and I wish my negativity to be proven wrong by rapid advancements in software (reprojection 2.0 ?) and hardware.

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So....still WMR then? Does that suck, or are people just having bad luck in that other troubleshooting thread?

 

Let's assume physical IPD (since we can see it) same screens (since 2k x 2k is loads of pixels already), and 4 cameras. FOV certainly isn't ultrawide from that form factor, could they have gotten to Index-FOV? (Index screens are canted 5 degrees to help with FOV).

 

Better or worse than an Index, on balance, for IL2 d'you think?

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I have as many tracking drift issues in IL-2 with Valve tracking as I did with WMR. This looks like an upgrade path from my Index potentially. Or Pimax 8K. Maybe I should liquidate it while they are selling for $1600 on ebay.

 

Edited by driftaholic

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I haven't had any issues in WMR since the first hour I took to set it up. I guess if you count having to remember to turn on an overhead light before I play at night, or close the blinds if I happen to play when the sun is beaming on me.

 

TrackIR was much more fiddly. My O+ tracks better than TrackIR too.

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1 hour ago, WheelwrightPL said:

 

With reprojection off, in career mode, with ultra shadows and high clouds ? Impossible. On the other hand if somebody is happy with minimal/primitive graphics settings, then yes I guess you can barely pull it off, but be aware that in VR the graphics render in real scale (ie. they are vastly enlarged) which results in glaringly obvious amplification of those primitive graphics. It can get really jarring, like a video game from 1980s, especially close to the ground. On a positive note: the cockpits look marvellous (I saw details I never noticed in 2d) and the feeling of "being there" is uncomparable. As an owner of HP Reverb, I speak from personal experience and I wish my negativity to be proven wrong by rapid advancements in software (reprojection 2.0 ?) and hardware.

I said not in ultra, of anything. My settings can be seen in the sticky thread of the VR section. First post. I know how VR works, thanks though.😂

 

P.S. There's supposedly coming a WMR update May 26th, that fixes distortions at 60Hz modes as well.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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I'm also going to point out that the 2080 Ti is about two years old and getting replaced this year. NVidia has already put the data center card on the market, and its something on the order of 60% faster (Wikipedia Votlta vs Ampere) we're likley to see significant jumps on the consumer side too.

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8 hours ago, Alonzo said:

So....still WMR then? Does that suck, or are people just having bad luck in that other troubleshooting thread?

 

Let's assume physical IPD (since we can see it) same screens (since 2k x 2k is loads of pixels already), and 4 cameras. FOV certainly isn't ultrawide from that form factor, could they have gotten to Index-FOV? (Index screens are canted 5 degrees to help with FOV).

 

Better or worse than an Index, on balance, for IL2 d'you think?


I havent any issue with WMR, works great for me.

Why did you write about the same screens? If vertical resolution will be the same, and FOV will be better (130 deg for example) it will be 2160 x 2808 as native resolution what will be great!

Edited by YoYo

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8 hours ago, driftaholic said:

I have as many tracking drift issues in IL-2 with Valve tracking as I did with WMR

 

I have perfect tracking with just one base station with my Index (check potential reflections and leave at least 1.5 meters from base station).

I also had a perfect tracking with the HP Reverb.

 

For the Reverb v2 it would be also good if they use a thinner cable.

But it looks like the best improvement could be the in lenses (if they use Index lenses),  let´s see what it is.

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12 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

I have perfect tracking with just one base station with my Index (check potential reflections and leave at least 1.5 meters from base station).

I also had a perfect tracking with the HP Reverb.

 

For the Reverb v2 it would be also good if they use a thinner cable.

But it looks like the best improvement could be the in lenses (if they use Index lenses),  let´s see what it is.

You never ever have the cockpit shift you to an extreme and then quickly recenter? It happens to me all the time, I've double checked everything and have zero issues in any other game. I'm thinking it's IL2 resetting for some built up drift or something.

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1 minute ago, driftaholic said:

You never ever have the cockpit shift you to an extreme and then quickly recenter? It happens to me all the time

No, it never happen to me that.

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I’ve said it before on another thread but I really hope they manage to improve the lenses too, if they manage to get the clarity of the centre across the rest of the fov these will be an insta buy...

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The largest clarity is allegedly achieved by the Cosmos Elite with the "Etsy" Lenses swap, as that thing has no barrel distortion either, and considerably higher PPI than the Index, while not having a FOV as tight as the Reverb. I'm really curious about testing that myself, together with the wireless feature.

 

If only such a lens choice existed for the Reverb G2... 

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

The largest clarity is allegedly achieved by the Cosmos Elite with the "Etsy" Lenses swap, as that thing has no barrel distortion either, and considerably higher PPI than the Index, while not having a FOV as tight as the Reverb. I'm really curious about testing that myself, together with the wireless feature.

 

If only such a lens choice existed for the Reverb G2... 

 

Do you happen to have a good and reliable review on the Cosmos Elite? Is this different than Vive Cosmos?

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3 hours ago, driftaholic said:

You never ever have the cockpit shift you to an extreme and then quickly recenter? It happens to me all the time, I've double checked everything and have zero issues in any other game. I'm thinking it's IL2 resetting for some built up drift or something.

It happens in poor light environment, Reverb needs a lots of light to good movement tracking. 

In daxtime everything is ok but when its dark outside I have to switch on all lamps in my room. I have two additional bulbs over my desk, but sometimes tracking loses anyway for some seconds if the light is not enough.

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Will only buy the HP Reverb 2 if we get more resolution or more FOV.

FOV does not look like its changed, so hoping for more resolution.

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I have a light bulb of 800 lumens above my head and the tracking at night of my wmr headset works fine.

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eye tracking, plus FOV, is what this viewer needs, the resolution of the current HP is already quite good, save for a fatter GPU

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12 hours ago, Voyager said:

I'm also going to point out that the 2080 Ti is about two years old and getting replaced this year. NVidia has already put the data center card on the market, and its something on the order of 60% faster (Wikipedia Votlta vs Ampere) we're likley to see significant jumps on the consumer side too.

 

Exactly. I'm looking at the headset as a "probably can't run it quite at native resolution with my RTX 2080, but it's more future-proof" than "will work great immediately."

 

15 hours ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

I haven't had any issues in WMR since the first hour I took to set it up. I guess if you count having to remember to turn on an overhead light before I play at night, or close the blinds if I happen to play when the sun is beaming on me.

 

Good to know. I have a light I switch on for my Rift S also. No biggie.

 

6 hours ago, driftaholic said:

You never ever have the cockpit shift you to an extreme and then quickly recenter? It happens to me all the time, I've double checked everything and have zero issues in any other game. I'm thinking it's IL2 resetting for some built up drift or something.

 

Happens to me every so often in the Rift S, too. That's inside-out tracking.

 

2 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Will only buy the HP Reverb 2 if we get more resolution or more FOV.

FOV does not look like its changed, so hoping for more resolution.

 

I'm curious as to why you want more resolution - have you tried the original Reverb? Everything I'm seeing says it's awesome resolution already. FOV I totally understand.

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12 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

I'm curious as to why you want more resolution - have you tried the original Reverb? Everything I'm seeing says it's awesome resolution already. FOV I totally understand.

Cockpit resolution is great with the Reverb, planes at close distance too, but at 1km or so image is not so sharp.

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5 minutes ago, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

Take this info with a grain of salt:

 

 

If this is correct ........Sold! .....

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

I'm curious as to why you want more resolution - have you tried the original Reverb? Everything I'm seeing says it's awesome resolution already. FOV I totally understand.

 

The human eye has a resolution of around 60 ppd, which we can more or less get to with a 4K display as the recommended viewing distance (though I think if we consider Nyquist we will probably want as much as 120 ppd for true eye equivalent vision).

 

The HP Reverb, though one of the best commercial units on the market, only achieves around 20 ppd, so we should see clear improvements until at least three times its pixel density and marginal improvements until at least six times its pixel density. 

 

It's *very* impressive when compared to early VR headsets, but if you put someone in one who has no prior experience with VR they usually comment on how grainy it seems. 

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35 minutes ago, J5_HellCat_ said:

 

If this is correct ........Sold! .....

 

 

 

100% agreed.  If true, it seems enough of an upgrade from the current reverb.  Something I didn't really see happenning.

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If it lands at those specs, or close, I am completely sold. Very exciting!

 

With the Oculus Quest sales, I am really surprised they went in this direction and not an all-out push for a standalone version. Great for us though!

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Well, if it indeed has a digital IPD adjustment along with it being roomy for those using glasses, I'm guessing the manual slider (bottom right) is to slide the head unit itself closer to the user's eyes.  The face pad is separate from the display unit with cylinders connecting them which could telescope the face plate closer to the lenses for a wider FOV similar to how the Index does...

Edited by Drum

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LOL at random hearsay. Someone posting a wish list that doesn't even line up with the leaked image of a physical IPD. (of course, image might be fake too).

 

Having said that, if it does have those specs, I'll be jumping on it. 130 FOV and 4k per eye from a mainstream manufacturer? Hell yes.

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I so wish they would just get away from WMR and just run through Steam VR.

If they did that I might consider giving one a try  when they arrive.

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1 hour ago, dburne said:

I so wish they would just get away from WMR and just run through Steam VR.

If they did that I might consider giving one a try  when they arrive.

 

The speculation was suggesting it might work as a SteamVR device. That would be nice, and might make sense if this dual-tracking thing is to be believed. I basically don't believe it though, it would increase the price of the headset.

 

Since everyone's gambling, here's what I'm thinking based on the pictures:

  • Same 4k per eye resolution as previously, possibly with a faster refresh display (maybe we get 120hz in addition to 90).
  • Similar FOV as previously, I think it's going to be better than Rift S, worse than Index (displays not canted, best we're getting is 115 to 120 horizontal FOV)
  • Better lenses than previously, so a better sweet spot and more tolerance to get your eyes in the right spot
  • Physical IPD adjustment
  • Valve has contributed/licensed/collaborated on the audio (off ear) as well as the head strap, and possibly the lens tech
  • Improved WMR via the 4-camera setup, but still WMR. Maybe an option to run directly as a SteamVR device
  • No lighthouse or dual mode tracking
  • Very similar price as last time, maybe a $50 - $100 bump at the absolute most
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2 hours ago, Bernard_IV said:

28th is the reveal day?

 

I think they have just stated some more info will be revealed on that date.

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On 5/24/2020 at 3:00 PM, dburne said:

I so wish they would just get away from WMR and just run through Steam VR.

If they did that I might consider giving one a try  when they arrive.

That was my bigges issue with WMR.  It was great to have and I highly recomend it for people getting into vr, but I got lower performance due to the cliff house is always running with steamvr and the game which does impact performance.  I had a lenovo explorer and upgraded to an index and my performance INCREASED despite the slightly higher resolution of the valve index. 

 

I'm sure with a proper patch you could fix that performance problem, but Its large enough that i get an improvement in fps when i switch to a higher resolution headset.

Edited by zdog0331

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To me the big thing will be how the new 30 series from nvidia will perform. 
If one have to wait for 40 series higher specs on goggles is totally neglect able to me

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8 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

To me the big thing will be how the new 30 series from nvidia will perform. 
If one have to wait for 40 series higher specs on goggles is totally neglect able to me

 

It will be a never ending upgrade process.

 

Better GPU's for better performance along with better headsets which require more performance.

And then the CPU to drive it all.

We will probably always be striving to achieve full performance with no reprojection.

Edited by dburne

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