HP Reverb Second Generation 2020

[Gomoto 40]

No need to play beta tester for SteamVR

 

SteamVR (non beta) works very nicely nowadays.

 

[dburne 2590]

@Gomoto

 

Is that with a Reverb G2?

Cause mine is not like that , but a much higher resolution at 100%.

I also do not see a motion smoothing option.

Edited November 14, 2020 by dburne

[JimmySolarium_VR 55]

Hi,

 

there is a Supply update on HP reddit  with some vague explanations on why the shipping was so difficult and stuff , but it contains some useful links within, which might be worth reading. Still waiting for mine here in germany, ordered July 31st

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/jtn90s/update_and_top_tips/

 

@all who have their headsets:

Wish you luck to get these headsets going and thank you for letting us know about your status

 

Greetings,

J.

Edited November 14, 2020 by JimmySolarium
typo

[=VARP=Ribbon 1122]

25 minutes ago, JimmySolarium said:

Hi,

 

there is a Supply update on HP reddit  with some vague explanations on why the shipping was so difficult and stuff , but it contains some useful links within, which might be worth reading. Still waiting for mine here in germany, ordered July 31st

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/jtn90s/update_and_top_tips/

 

@all who have their headsets:

Wish you luck to get these headsets going and thank you for letting us know about your status

 

Greetings,

J.

Those are good news, meaning mine should arrive in December (preordered 12th of October).

 

[dburne 2590]

OK I think I am getting there this morning. Will find out soon enough.

[=VARP=Ribbon 1122]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

@Gomoto

 

Is that with a Reverb G2?

Cause mine is not like that , but a much higher resolution at 100%.

I also do not see a motion smoothing option.

Just read the comment from HP employee on the reddit that they're aware of the problem and working with Valve to fix it so expect update!

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by =VARP=Ribbon

[dburne 2590]

11 minutes ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

Just read the comment from HP employee on the reddit that they're aware of the problem and working with Valve to fix it so expect update!

 

 

Ah good to hear, thanks much!

[dburne 2590]

Ok I "think" I may have a handle on this, getting ready to try again in IL-2. Back soon with a report I hope.

 

Edit: I am so ready to pull my hair out. Now Steam and Steam VR are not even closing properly, not getting the SteamVR settings popup in systray now either.  I don't know if I should just uninstall everything Steam and start fresh again or what. I try to close it and get error, try to launch it and get an error.

Multiple instances appear to be running in task manager. 

Totally absurd.

Edited November 14, 2020 by dburne

[WIS-Redcoat 189]

10 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Congrats!

Do you use Beta/non-Beta for "WMR for SteamVR" and "SteamVR"?

 

What about FOVs? people say the G2 fov is like the min FOV of Index (max distance from lenses).

 

Maybe is still early, but which one would you keep?

I am not using a beta.  I just plugged it in and played.  I am not noticing any FOV difference (I know its there but don’t notice it).  What I do notice is the lightweight and tight fit, which probably makes up for the FOV.

 

Clarity and color is noticeably better than the index.

 

Messing with WMR sucks, but it hasn’t been a problem yet.

 

I do have some audio cut-out on the left speaker so I will try to reseat it today and see if it’s that simple.

 

Friends on teamspeak said the mic sucked.

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by WIS-Redcoat

[Alonzo 2312]

4 hours ago, dburne said:

Don't think I am going to be able to maintain 90 fps with my Ultra graphics settings. I can maintain 60 fps now problem in 60 Hz mode, initial impression is it might be a little

nauseating. Shame they don't have an 80 Hz mode.

 

Keep working at it. You may need fpsVR to diagnose what's slow (it's $5 from Steam and shows you CPU and GPU frame times nicely in game, totally worth it). There are quite a few people running their Reverbs at 60hz but I can't imagine that's a nice experience. I'm sure it's a little galling not to be able to run at a locked 90 FPS on Ultra with the 9900K and 3090, but most people shooting for locked framerates in VR have dropped their settings down to High -- it really makes very little difference in visual quality. You could try High preset but with Ultra shadows and clouds, for example.

 

The other thing to change is MSAA. It's a killer, no matter your GPU. Try backing it down to 2x MSAA or even trying FXAA instead. The G2 panel is very high resolution so you might not technically need much antialias. MSAA is the most expensive way to do it.

 

4 hours ago, coconut said:

In general you should not just match the panel resolution, you need to exceed it. This is due to the lens correction transformation.

Of course, if you think that 2160p is good enough, then it is.

It's the same thing with the Pimax 8kx, 1.0 SS at normal quality is also 3000p or so, IIRC. But for me 2300p is good enough, and that's what I can afford to meet the 75Hz of the panels.

 

Yeah, I would expect to add 10% just to take into account the panel, so the ~2300p figure is probably about right. Of course, coming from a Rift S this is a big step up, so 2160p probably looks hella sharp already.

[QB.Gordon200 425]

13 minutes ago, WIS-Redcoat said:

I do have some audio cut-out on the left speaker

I was experiencing that with my G1 since the last IL2 update. Not related to the G2.

I'm chatting with HP support at the moment.

[71st_AH_statuskuo 29]

I run my G1 at 60 Hz after it got fixed awhile back and much prefer it over the 90Hz mode with reprojection (making the wings flap).  I only play MP and is more than sufficient for me.

On 2080S with i5-9600K @ 5Ghz   with 2400x2400 120% SS in SteamVR.

[dburne 2590]

22 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

Keep working at it. You may need fpsVR to diagnose what's slow (it's $5 from Steam and shows you CPU and GPU frame times nicely in game, totally worth it). There are quite a few people running their Reverbs at 60hz but I can't imagine that's a nice experience. I'm sure it's a little galling not to be able to run at a locked 90 FPS on Ultra with the 9900K and 3090, but most people shooting for locked framerates in VR have dropped their settings down to High -- it really makes very little difference in visual quality. You could try High preset but with Ultra shadows and clouds, for example.

 

The other thing to change is MSAA. It's a killer, no matter your GPU. Try backing it down to 2x MSAA or even trying FXAA instead. The G2 panel is very high resolution so you might not technically need much antialias. MSAA is the most expensive way to do it.

 

 

OK I did a complete uninstall and reinstall of Steam VR.

Got my resolution set properly - close to 100% as I could get.

Enabled Motion Smoothing for IL-2.

Reduced MSAA from x4 to x2.

 

Looks like I have it now - and I must say:

Did a 4x4 instant action in the Spit MK IX against 190's, partly cloudy skies.

Are You Frickin Kidding Me?? Seriously?

OMG this thing is drop dead gorgeous!! WOW.

And - with Motion Smoothing  on this 4x4 mission it never dropped below 90 fps so it did not kick in.

Will try my next PWCG campaign mission next.

 

Holy Cow!! Setting up and getting acclimated to all the nuances was a PITB, but if I can manage to make this stick now I 

am going to be one, huge happy camper!! With this thing resolution , I see no need for any SS. Colors are beautiful.

If it has SDE, I am not seeing it.

 

Going to order some extended earbuds to hook into my PC. Sound quality is good, just a little quiet for my tastes.

Will report back later how PWCG missions do in it.

 

Edit - Oh and after the uninstall and reinstall of the Steam VR, my Corsair Icue software now seems to be behaving,  hope that sticks as well.

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by dburne

[QB.Gordon200 425]

Good to hear that Don.

Just finished a chat with HP tech support. Explained my problem in detail and they asked if I could use the cable from my G1 on the G2 to see if it works. Apparently HP tech support hasn't been trained on the G2 yet. I tried to bring them up to date on their latest product and how it's tied to microsoft and valve etc. Long story short they're sending me a new headset Monday.

 

While waiting for tech support it occurred to me that Microsoft embraced the idea of including VR support for their MS Flight 2020 at the last minute before release. MS Flight 2020 is a power hungry and demanding beast. On the day Reverb G2 was released Windows issued an update aimed at VR and the Reverb G2. It is my suspicion MS gave Reverb a boost to compensate while Valve and HP continued to march with G2 based on existing Windows Mixed Reality. That would explain the 200% increase over previous settings. SteamVR tech support wasn't aware of the Windows update (Feature update to Windows 10, version 20H2) until they asked if I had latest drivers.

[dburne 2590]

Wow, ok thanks for the info. Glad you are getting a new headset!

Edited November 14, 2020 by dburne

[HunDread 268]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

Sound quality is good, just a little quiet for my tastes.

 

Are you at max volume both in windows and in game?

[dburne 2590]

12 minutes ago, HunDread said:

 

Are you at max volume both in windows and in game?

 

Yes.

[shirazjohn 34]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

 

OK I did a complete uninstall and reinstall of Steam VR.

Got my resolution set properly - close to 100% as I could get.

Enabled Motion Smoothing for IL-2.

Reduced MSAA from x4 to x2

Glad your up and running, I've found with my reverb g1 there wasn't a great deal of difference visually between MSAA and FXAA but i get much better performance with FXAA although i only have a gtx1080ti compared to your monster.

[dburne 2590]

Ok flew a PWCG mission that had heavy clouds.

Even though I have motion smoothing enabled for IIL-2, I saw framerates below 90, like 60 and 70 with some stuttering.

So not sure if Motion Smoothing is just not that good, or if it is somehow not applying in my case. I would have thought the framerate would have halved

when it kicks in - dropping from 90 to 45 like Oculus does.

 

Anyone much familiar with how Motion Smoothing works in Steam VR?

I supposed I could either drop some graphics, or drop to 60 Hz mode which will be fine long as the nausea does not get

too bad on me.

 

Appreciate any feedback, thanks.

[J5_NiiranenVR-Gfr 171]

I have the G1 , and it's always about the eyecandy and Frame rates ....but try with the Reverb none Msaa or Fxaa 

I have none ..... The quality of reverb is so great that's it's not so important - for me 

[thermoregulator 26]

6 minutes ago, dburne said:

Ok flew a PWCG mission that had heavy clouds.

Even though I have motion smoothing enabled for IIL-2, I saw framerates below 90, like 60 and 70 with some stuttering.

So not sure if Motion Smoothing is just not that good, or if it is somehow not applying in my case. I would have thought the framerate would have halved

when it kicks in - dropping from 90 to 45 like Oculus does.

 

Anyone much familiar with how Motion Smoothing works in Steam VR?

I supposed I could either drop some graphics, or drop to 60 Hz mode which will be fine long as the nausea does not get

too bad on me.

 

Appreciate any feedback, thanks.

I don't know if it is still as it used to be, because I don´t use motion smoothing anymore (it used to be great before, as long as you could keep framerate above 60 hz, almost no artifacts and prefectly smooth, but that has changed since), but you had to change default settings file in your SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\MixedRealityVRDriver\resources\settings to activate it. (to change this line: "motionReprojectionMode": "none", to "motionReprojectionMode": "auto",)

[shirazjohn 34]

5 minutes ago, J5_NiiranenVR-Gfr said:

I have the G1 , and it's always about the eyecandy and Frame rates ....but try with the Reverb none Msaa or Fxaa 

I have none ..... The quality of reverb is so great that's it's not so important - for me 

I agree i have the G1 also and find FXAA x4 works well . Theres very little difference in framerate between no AA and FXAA.

[Blitzen 889]

NOW i'M KINDA GLAD MINE WON'T BE HERE FOR A WHILE. i'M SURE YOU UYS WILL WORK OUT ALL THE KINKS IN THE MEANTIME?

IFor now I'll keep my eyes open for the new graphics card( whatever will be available by next month or so.

I'm still happy enough with gameplay with the Pimax5k but don't have nearly the FPS that come with a better graphics card  9 Mine is the now ancient 1080) but the news about the Steam VR beta & Microsoft Mixed Reality Portal ( which I just installed, but it doesn't seem to recognize my headset being on...sigh...so maybe its only for Reverb right?)) is news to me.Should these things be things that apply to me now or be more relevant later when the G2 arrives?

Edited November 14, 2020 by Blitzen

[chiliwili69 880]

2 hours ago, WIS-Redcoat said:

I am not noticing any FOV difference (I know its there but don’t notice it).  What I do notice is the lightweight and tight fit, which probably makes up for the FOV.

 

Clarity and color is noticeably better than the index.

 

Wow! you don´t notice FOV difference, that´s promising. The clarity was already quite good in the Index, so this is nice to hear as well.

[shirazjohn 34]

Here's a review at toms hardware https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/reviews/hp-reverb-g2

Bit of a mixed review with FOV and tracking not so good apparently. 

[dburne 2590]

48 minutes ago, shirazjohn said:

I agree i have the G1 also and find FXAA x4 works well . Theres very little difference in framerate between no AA and FXAA.

 

Just flew another PWCG mission, set MSAA to off.

It was better avg fps probably in the low 80's - and doable.

However with no MSAA I get some texture shimmering on ground not too far in front of me, close enough to be a little annoying.

Will try FXAA next.

May try 60 Hz again with 2x MSAA.

Alternative I suppose I could lower the G2 resolution a little, it is so good that might work also to get closer to 90 fps constant. Or lower my Ultra graphics settings.

I do like my eye candy. 

 

At least there are options. And I am no longer struggling to get everything to work together, which is a good thing.

If I could just get the sound level up some in the headphones. Ordered the extended earbuds, should be here in a couple of days.

Edited November 14, 2020 by dburne

[chiliwili69 880]

17 minutes ago, shirazjohn said:

Here's a review at toms hardware https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/reviews/hp-reverb-g2

Bit of a mixed review with FOV and tracking not so good apparently. 

 

This is what they say about FOV (MRTV guy reported different values), are FOVs like Rift-S then??:

 

We ran through the FOV test in Real O Virtual's Test HMD application, and the results were less than spectacular. We observed a vertical FOV of 120-degrees and a horizontal FOV of just 88-degrees in the Reverb G2.

By contrast, the Valve Index gave us 136-degrees vertical and 110-degrees horizontal, and the Pimax 5K+ offered us a 112-degree virtual and 142-degree horizontal viewport. We even compared the Reverb G2 to the Oculus Rift S and found the Rift S just a touch narrower, at 86-degrees horizontal versus 88-degrees horizontal. What's more, the Rift S gave us a 120-degree vertical view to work with.

[shirazjohn 34]

15 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Just flew another PWCG mission, set MSAA to off.

It was better avg fps probably in the low 80's - and doable.

However with no MSAA I get some texture shimmering on ground not too far in front of me, close enough to be a little annoying.

Will try FXAA next.

May try 60 Hz again with 2x MSAA.

Alternative I suppose I could lower the G2 resolution a little, it is so good that might work also to get closer to 90 fps constant. Or lower my Ultra graphics settings.

I do like my eye candy. 

 

At least there are options. And I am no longer struggling to get everything to work together, which is a good thing.

If I could just get the sound level up some in the headphones. Ordered the extended earbuds, should be here in a couple of days.

I've found 60 hz to flickery for me (a bit like a failing fluorescent light) . Try FXAA x4 if its too shimmery increase supersampling a little.

18 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

This is what they say about FOV (MRTV guy reported different values), are FOVs like Rift-S then??:

 

We ran through the FOV test in Real O Virtual's Test HMD application, and the results were less than spectacular. We observed a vertical FOV of 120-degrees and a horizontal FOV of just 88-degrees in the Reverb G2.

By contrast, the Valve Index gave us 136-degrees vertical and 110-degrees horizontal, and the Pimax 5K+ offered us a 112-degree virtual and 142-degree horizontal viewport. We even compared the Reverb G2 to the Oculus Rift S and found the Rift S just a touch narrower, at 86-degrees horizontal versus 88-degrees horizontal. What's more, the Rift S gave us a 120-degree vertical view to work with.

I've only ever experienced the G1 so i guess the Fov will be similar for the G2 so probably not a deal breaker for me.

[WIS-Redcoat 189]

1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Wow! you don´t notice FOV difference, that´s promising. The clarity was already quite good in the Index, so this is nice to hear as well.

Without hesitation, I am selling my index tomorrow.

 

The reverb G2 is absolutely superior for sims.

[dburne 2590]

Ok changed to 4x FXAA. That certainly helped a little over no AA without any big performance hit. I like MSAA better but I would rather be at higher fps.

Flew another PWCG mission, maintained 90 fps the bulk of the time with only an occasional drop here and there.

However for this mission sky was fair,  no clouds.

 

Will keep plugging and experimenting but this probably all for today.

Lot better than faffing about just trying to get the thing to run properly I will say.

[dburne 2590]

Well I could not resist and flew one more PWCG Mission in my campaign.

Ground attack.

 

OMG guys, the Reverb G2 is simply drop dead gorgeous. You guys that are waiting for yours, you are in for one heck of a treat let me tell ya.

I will leave it at that.

 

PC-VR = Reverb G2 hands down. If you don't mind the possible faffing about to get setup. I am sure some have easier time with it than I had.

Now as long as it has good staying power in the quality department will be home free. That is one thing about my Rift and Rift S, they just 

worked solidly every time without a hitch.

Edited November 14, 2020 by dburne

[=VARP=Ribbon 1122]

5 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

This is what they say about FOV (MRTV guy reported different values), are FOVs like Rift-S then??:

 

We ran through the FOV test in Real O Virtual's Test HMD application, and the results were less than spectacular. We observed a vertical FOV of 120-degrees and a horizontal FOV of just 88-degrees in the Reverb G2.

By contrast, the Valve Index gave us 136-degrees vertical and 110-degrees horizontal, and the Pimax 5K+ offered us a 112-degree virtual and 142-degree horizontal viewport. We even compared the Reverb G2 to the Oculus Rift S and found the Rift S just a touch narrower, at 86-degrees horizontal versus 88-degrees horizontal. What's more, the Rift S gave us a 120-degree vertical view to work with.

98°horizontal Reverb G2 /v 114°

86° horizontal Rift S /v 110°

So there should be some small noticable difference with G2 fov being 10% wider over rift s 

Edited November 14, 2020 by =VARP=Ribbon

[dburne 2590]

Rift S and G2 seem about the same horizontal FOV to me.

Disclaimer:  I lost much of my eyesight due to a large stroke suffered a few years ago, so I may not be the best reference when it comes to commenting on horizontal FOV.

Vertical FOV I believe I do notice a slight advantage to G2.

[HunDread 268]

5 hours ago, dburne said:

OMG guys, the Reverb G2 is simply drop dead gorgeous. You guys that are waiting for yours, you are in for one heck of a treat let me tell ya.

I will leave it at that.

 

Now you are not making the wait easier but what the hell keep them coming 🙂

[VR-DriftaholiC 315]

Looks like my G2 is prepared for shipment. Looking forward to comming back to the sim. Couldn't play in 2D while I had no headset

[Floppy_Sock 185]

G2 is so unreal - the image quality is so so good.

[Hoots 376]

33 minutes ago, Floppy_Sock said:

G2 is so unreal - the image quality is so so good.

 

Surely that should be "G2 is so real..."

[J5_NiiranenVR-Gfr 171]

Go from the reverb G1 to G2 - do you still have the 'gosh - Woooow' feeling 🤔😁

[Patersonski 4]

17 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

98°horizontal Reverb G2 /v 114°

86° horizontal Rift S /v 110°

So there should be some small noticable difference with G2 fov being 10% wider over rift s 

I just swapped out the S for the G2, and these MRTV horizontal FOV values of 86 to 98 “feel” right to me (all subjective of course). There is a noticeable difference and less feeling of tunnel vision going from the S to G2. For me the FOV was a positive surprise. Also one caveat - FOV is obviously impacted by the IPD slider. I have it at the widest setting, which also maximizes FOV. If your IPD is narrow the FOV gain over the Rift S will be less, but still noticeable.

[=VARP=Ribbon 1122]

30 minutes ago, Patersonski said:

I just swapped out the S for the G2, and these MRTV horizontal FOV values of 86 to 98 “feel” right to me (all subjective of course). There is a noticeable difference and less feeling of tunnel vision going from the S to G2. For me the FOV was a positive surprise. Also one caveat - FOV is obviously impacted by the IPD slider. I have it at the widest setting, which also maximizes FOV. If your IPD is narrow the FOV gain over the Rift S will be less, but still noticeable.

I think MRTV guy tested it on average IPD value of 64mm