Game version 4.005 discussion: New airframe damage model

[LLv24_Zami]

6 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Tell that to your friends spent 8 years complaining on how their cannons fails to obliterate the opponents. 
Fact is this is a combat sim and not a flight sim. 
it does not even reflect the combat very well since the numbers, structural strength , fuel and training is not taken 

into account. 
In this environment lw thrives well. Of course you 109 jockeys do not want anything to change. As long as you can blow up those allied zippoes. You are Holding both end of the rope. No wonder SP is the preferred mode for red players.  
I see all the time servers with 40 lw against 8 red and the Hartmans are all happy about it

That`s just a load of BS.

[Eisenfaustus]

6 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Tell that to your friends spent 8 years complaining on how their cannons fails to obliterate the opponents. 
Fact is this is a combat sim and not a flight sim. 
it does not even reflect the combat very well since the numbers, structural strength , fuel and training is not taken 

into account. 
In this environment lw thrives well. Of course you 109 jockeys do not want anything to change. As long as you can blow up those allied zippoes. You are Holding both end of the rope. No wonder SP is the preferred mode for red players.  
I see all the time servers with 40 lw against 8 red and the Hartmans are all happy about it

would you really prefer if the devs chose balancing over realism?

and SP is the preferred mode odf blue players as well ^^

many of thew factors you name cannot be modeled in the game - but I wouldn't mind for exampler if the mk108 had a high propability to jam if fired under G...

the biggest downside of this powerfull weapon

[Lusekofte]

Just now, LLv24_Zami said:

That`s just a load of BS.

No its not. I am not saying it can be done but saying the battle outcome is simulated well is wrong. 
Excaggeration I did concerning numbers but this is not a simulator as stated it is a combat simulator. It does not simulate all things needed in a good enough way to equal a fair historical fight. It do favor those with the biggest guns and give little credit to numbers historical available. 
so you can call bs all you want but give me one reason why

1 minute ago, Eisenfaustus said:

would you really prefer if the devs chose balancing over realism?

and SP is the preferred mode odf blue players as well ^^

many of thew factors you name cannot be modeled in the game - but I wouldn't mind for exampler if the mk108 had a high propability to jam if fired under G...

the biggest downside of this powerfull weapon

I say and always said this is the best ww2 available. But realism is not the word I call this. 
Might be as good as it ever get

[Danziger]

4 hours ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

Mixed feelings about this patch, which i was really looking forward to. While i like the visual effects of hits and the reaction of the plane to different hit placement;  i really don't like how the damage is calculated in some guns. For instance, during  SP testing in QM i loaded a Lagg3 with 37mm and many times after 4x37mm hits at point blank range (inside 100m) the  bombers kept flying. Common thing was bombers taking 2x37mm round at point blank range and they didn't go down. I was really surprised, it really wasn't what i was expecting after such a DM overhaul.

 

So flying mainly VVS planes i see no difference in the ammount of damage they do between this patch and before, they still seem weak compared what we used to have in this sim some time ago, the difference now is what you see when you hit your target with them, and that aspect it's very nice.

Let's wait a while and see what happens after further testing.

 

If you are taking the 37mm for shooting at planes, make sure you take the HE only loadout. The AP rounds are meant for armoured ground targets. They pass right though a plane with no explosive. So unless it makes a direct hit on something vital, it will not do anything but put a hole in the skin. 

[LLv24_Zami]

7 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

No its not. I am not saying it can be done but saying the battle outcome is simulated well is wrong. 
Excaggeration I did concerning numbers but this is not a simulator as stated it is a combat simulator. It does not simulate all things needed in a good enough way to equal a fair historical fight. It do favor those with the biggest guns and give little credit to numbers historical available. 
so you can call bs all you want but give me one reason why

Historical battle outcome in real life depends on lots of factors other than DM. That`s why it`s BS.

 

Combat simulator and simulator is the same thing in my eyes.

Edited April 11, 2020 by LLv24_Zami

[Eisenfaustus]

2 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

It does not simulate all things needed in a good enough way to equal a fair historical fight.

In history there never was a fair fight ever... Battle hardende LW vs vvs in 41 was as unfair as well trained USAAF vs late 44 LW

 

6 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

this is not a simulator as stated it is a combat simulator

 

Yeah - so it is a simulator. A simulator is never reality - otherwise you wouldn't have to simulate anything. But the aim of any ambitious simultaor is to get as close to reality as possible. And I think IL2 GB is going that route exactly. So yes it is a simulator - but as any simulator - even high class military ones - it is obviously not the real thing...

[=621=Samikatz]

Been playing around with the MiG-3 with just one UBS and two shkas against the AI and honestly having no issues downing the AI aircraft. In a slight turn you can just rake across the engine and cockpit and if the aircraft doesn't fireball or the pilot doesn't die you can usually hear the engine grinding and you can let them crash. Dead six is less reliable but tail control kills are fairly common

 

Larger airplanes like bombers you can no longer kill with snapshots, but if you dive from above and focus one engine you can get a lot of damage off in one pass that way. The upside is that gunners no longer instantly headshot your pilot and fireball the aircraft, so taking a moment to aim is less risky

[Beazil]

1 hour ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Tell that to your friends spent 8 years complaining on how their cannons fails to obliterate the opponents. 
Fact is this is a combat sim and not a flight sim. 
it does not even reflect the combat very well since the numbers, structural strength , fuel and training is not taken 

into account. 
In this environment lw thrives well. Of course you 109 jockeys do not want anything to change. As long as you can blow up those allied zippoes. You are Holding both end of the rope. No wonder SP is the preferred mode for red players.  
I see all the time servers with 40 lw against 8 red and the Hartmans are all happy about it

Ok Luse.  I'm not making a side biased argument here.  If that's where this discussion is going, well not interested in playing.  

You are smarter than that.  I'm actually really disappointed you would make such a side biased comment.  Would my comment be welcome if I had a VVS tag instead?  

Give me a break.

In fact, find some side biased whine quotes I've made and post them here.  Guess what?  You won't find any.

Edited April 11, 2020 by JG51_Beazil
Sense.

[LukeFF]

17 hours ago, Fortis_Leader said:

Since 4.005, it seems the P-47 can only link the turbo fully to the thrust lever.

 

The RPM/prop lever can only be linked in one direction, up. Up, but not down, so it remains at the max setting you pushed it to when linked to the throttle when you move the throttle back down again.

 

Is this indended or a bug?

 

17 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

Intended. Apparently that's how it worked in real life.

 

Yes, it was that way to prevent engine detonation.

[LLv24_Zami]

4 minutes ago, HR_Grajo said:

Balance is bad, Tempest and Spitfire Mk IX are better than my Fw 190 or Bf 109 and I want to cry....  (somebody forgot Soviet Fighters by the way... They should ban La-5 FN ?)   War Thunder... Seriously?

 

Come on, guys! What a load of rubbish ?

You do realize that this is not about balance? 

 

How about making every weapon, pilot and aircraft invulnerable. Everyone would be happy?

[Beazil]

14 minutes ago, HR_Grajo said:

Balance is bad, Tempest and Spitfire Mk IX are better than my Fw 190 or Bf 109 and I want to cry....  (somebody forgot Soviet Fighters by the way... They should ban La-5 FN ?)   War Thunder... Seriously?

 

Come on, guys! What a load of rubbish ?

No, now you are deliberately being daft.  Really.  Put the keyboard away.

 

Did you just get here?  Who is saying what you are stating above?  Noone here said ban the spit or tempy - most of us fly ALL the planes and have experience on BOTH sides.  Don't confuse the readership here with the typical side biased bullshit you see in other forums.  That crap just isn't tolerated here.  Knock it off.  Troll somewhere else.  Or take the wax out of your ears.

 

when we indulge in typical whinebag side biased whine fest shite,  it's a problem.  You are not helping.

Edited April 11, 2020 by JG51_Beazil

[-250H-Ursus_]

14 minutes ago, HR_Grajo said:

Balance is bad, Tempest and Spitfire Mk IX are better than my Fw 190 or Bf 109 and I want to cry....  (somebody forgot Soviet Fighters by the way... They should ban La-5 FN ?)   War Thunder... Seriously?

 

Come on, guys! What a load of rubbish ?

You are talking about balance, in a sim...

 

Come on.

[blitze]

I dunno, on the Finnish Pilots Server there just seem to be VVS jocks in their Uber Yaks shredding us poor LW guys trying to ground pound.  It's like they do nothing else than fly around looking for attacks on their ground assets and pouncing on us poor unsuspecting LW guys.

 

It's so tedious, not like there aren't German ground assets they should be going after.  Come on, get a life VVS guys.  Oh and yeah, they over modeled those VVS MG's and cannons as they shred my LW planes a plenty including the "tank" that is the 109. ?

 

On another note, how are ship wakes in this release - something I haven't paid much attention to until today but when ship hunting I couldn't for the life of me spot any at 1K.  Would hope that there would be a combo of decent smoke (as shipping is quite particulate pollution intensive) as well as decent wakes.

[Beazil]

6 minutes ago, blitze said:

I dunno, on the Finnish Pilots Server there just seem to be VVS jocks in their Uber Yaks shredding us poor LW guys trying to ground pound.  It's like they do nothing else than fly around looking for attacks on their ground assets and pouncing on us poor unsuspecting LW guys.

 

It's so tedious, not like there aren't German ground assets they should be going after.  Come on, get a life VVS guys.  Oh and yeah, they over modeled those VVS MG's and cannons as they shred my LW planes a plenty including the "tank" that is the 109. ?

 

On another note, how are ship wakes in this release - something I haven't paid much attention to until today but when ship hunting I couldn't for the life of me spot any at 1K.  Would hope that there would be a combo of decent smoke (as shipping is quite particulate pollution intensive) as well as decent wakes.

No, they are just other simmers looking for a kill.  Just like you or me.

Some are just better at in then we are at any particular instant.  You have to put yourself in a good position to win.  it's the pilot, not the plane.

 

Ask the poor guys I bounced there from the axis side the same question.  They'd make the same comment about the "ruthless LW" bouncing people.     

 

Let me just state for the record here before we siderail this thread completely, if you think the other side has it better, go grab the best plane on that side, run out, grab some in game footage of you getting "easy" kills while the rest of us wait and post your ace in five minute video.

 

Go on.  We are waiting.

 

You won't be able to.  Each plane in this game, sim, combat experience, vibrating chair simulator, or whatever the hell you want to call it, takes some skill to use and more to master.  You are flying against people who all have been doing this a loooooooong time, in many other simulators perhaps while you may or may not have been suckling at mom's teat, or maybe you were doing it when I was.... 

 

There is balance in the sim.  That balance is your skill and knowledge of your plane vs thiers.  

Edited April 11, 2020 by JG51_Beazil

[Jmo]

Seems a lot of newer Mustang pilots are pitching a fit that they have to aim now instead of sprinkling 10 random rounds across a wing and it magically falling off. Practice your gunnery people. Learn the gyro sight. Set wingspan to 32 or 34 feet for 109 and 190 respectively, set the distance to your convergence, and shoot when the wing tips touch the edges of the sight. ? 

[blitze]

1 minute ago, JG51_Beazil said:

No, they are just other simmers looking for a kill.  Just like you or me.

Some are just better at in then we are at any particular instant.  You have to put yourself in a good position to win.  it's the pilot, not the plane.

 

Ask the poor guys I bounced there from the axis side the same question.  They'd make the same comment about the "ruthless LW" bouncing people.     

I was joking about the VVS jocks.

 

I know they are just people wanting to feather their air kill caps.  I don't care that much if that is what gets them off, I fly for the ground war personally but will have to fly where the team is more active as solo ground ops is an invitation to being bounced.  The point being made is that be it a 109, a 190 or a 110 - VVS flyers are more than able to rain on my parade.  No one aircraft is uber than the other and all can be turned into Swiss Cheese in no time flat at the hands of a capable pilot.

 

My testing offline with US Bodenplate rides shows the same, the .50 Cals are more than capable to take down anything they are pointed at.  7.62mm on the other hand might be a little light weight but they can still cause leaks.  There seems to be a vocal few lambasting the Devs over the DM update and for no real reason.  The update is a huge improvement on what was before it.  Sure there might be a few bugs to iron out but on the whole, it is a very good piece of work.  Personally, I would hate to have the sim walk back to the version before as the difference to me is night and day.

[Beazil]

Right on blitze.  Context is hard to read on forums and sometimes it's hard to tell when folks are being serious.  I posted in response just in case we were "feeding the fire" so to speak, which would just make this part of the conversation pointless. 

 

And I hope you folks reading this are not misinterpreting me.  When you are on the end of someone else's guns, it ALWAYS seems like they have the advantage.  

 

Because they do. 

 

Finally, please accept my apology Grajo, because I know I must have come off as "preachy" or scolding.  You too Kose.  I respect your perspectives, and I always enjoy reading your comments.

Edited April 11, 2020 by JG51_Beazil

[Sunde]

The quality of the new DM is amazing, finally does the sim justice.
 The very vocal minority that are not happy are 50% people who are angry they have to aim, and 50% people who think 6x 50cals could push a tiger of the road, or bounce off the ground through the bottom of it ? 

Lots of myths out there, but if the new DM is preventing your pony from downing the evil luftwaffles, its your aim, not the model...

Edited April 11, 2020 by Sunde

[SShrike]

Could it be that the MiG flaps control has been affected? I notice that they cannot be released to their pre-set limit. instead, you can only fully retract them by setting the pre-set to zero. If, for example I set the limiter to 60 degrees, and try to retract them, they stay down. if I adjust the limiter to 30 degrees, they fully retract while adjusting, and then drop to 30. pressing retract does nothing. Can anyone else verify?

Edited April 12, 2020 by SShrike

[SCG_motoadve]

2 hours ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

The developers got a very good historical report from 1 beta tester.

I have read it myself, and yes: We are very-very overestiamted the power of the cannons/HMGs. Thanks to the "arcade" games, less realistic games and less historical simulated games(Old IL-2 example) from the past.

Agreed, you nailed it.

 

The new update has made this sim a lot more detailed and sophisticated now, aiming is more important ,  not happy with the MGs? do not complain, learn to do it properly, many things have changed.

Now you must set the convergence right,  also set the wingspan of the enemy plane (when you have the option)  also conserve ammo, but most important aim.

I know it might be more difficult sometimes to shoot down the enemy  (but not really finding it that difficult)  but for sure more realistic than before, is a matter of adapting and learning new skills, same happened when pilot physiology was released, some people complain when things get more challenging and realistic,  and they realize they cannot get easy kills anymore,who said it was easy to shoot down planes in WWII?

 It looks like most people here really like this update, MGs are not cannons, bombers are bombers now, no more sawing parts easily and getting easy kills.

 

And BTW I am flying reds this TAW and enjoying it, no complains with the MGs power  of the Mig or P40,  also tested the rest of VVS planes and the  P47, P51 at length, and they are very lethal, and they have no problems shooting down fighters and bombers, its not like before just shoot and a wing will come off, no matter if you aim or not, now is a lot more realistic but a lot more rewarding.

 

Developers did a lot of research to achieve this, might be a bit of fine tuning here and there if anything ,  but minimal IMHO and overall its an amazing update to the DM, now this sim is getting much more fun and interesting to fly.

 

[Roland_HUNter]

Now I speak to those who say:
1.The game need more balance.
Balance what? In a really good simulator the first thing you drop into the junk is: Balance.
Why?
You try to SIMULATE the real life. And I guess everybody is old enough already to know 1 thing: The life is not balanced.
Its like: Others have lots of money, I WANT BALANCE: Give me a lots of money for nothing, to make it balanced to have the same chances. Why should they?!

You have to learn your planes(what you flying most often) advantages/disadvantages.
Example: Do not turn fight with 109s because it has high wingload and its developed for high speed flying. But it can climb as hell. But its faster than russian planes.
Russian planes: Try to trap the germans in energy traps or with Spit IX 150 oct, you can outclimb, outturn them, but they are faster.
La-5FN is fast like G-14. With earlier 109s you have to have more energy than La-5FN or mabye your are "fucked".

 

2.Its not like real life WW2 flying

Really?
Who trying to compare games to real life. Please take the fatigue and start read memoirs.
In real life:
Planes who turned better than others, in WW2: it was not so popular to turn fight with them. Why? You lost a lots of speed(like in the game) and if the enemy had more energy, you made yourself into a trap-->Slow moving target.
In real life:
If they thought there is 50% chance to win(depending of pilot/bravery ofc) they maybe not engaged the enemy, or engaged once and turned back to home etc. Is this happening in the game? ofc not.
Why?
We have more virtual life than one.....

3.Soviet  cannons aren't powerful as the german...

Why should they?
If in real life the Minengeschoss had more destructive power, WHY THE SOVIET SHOULD MAKE THE SAME DAMAGE?! FOR BALANCE?!
If we start balancing things out(damage, flying charachterics etc), we can drop 1 thing into the junk: Simulator.

 

I hope I could make something more clear for everyone.

Edited April 11, 2020 by -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter

[Beazil]

Hispanos > Minengeshoss (sp?), Amirite?

 

 

[viperGerson]

I still think that the accuracy of the rear gunners from the sturmoviks are overestimated......

Its impossible to aproach the plane from any direction without being shot

could it be fixed please?

thanks

[LLv24_Zami]

Just now, viperGerson said:

I still think that the accuracy of the rear gunners from the sturmoviks are overestimated......

Its impossible to aproach the plane from any direction without being shot

could it be fixed please?

thanks

Might need a bit more info. SP or MP? What is the AI level, ace will shoot you down if you stay on the six.

[=SqSq=Civilprotection]

17 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

Yup, the Soviets used HE in the ammo for the 12.7mm Universal Berezin (it's in the game in all it's variants, UBS propeller synchronized, UBT turret mount and UBK wing mount). In fact if I am not mistaken the Americans were the only ones without explosive ammo for their high caliber machine gun (Germans, Russians, Italian, Japanese, Belgian had them).

@-=PHX=-SuperEtendard Do you have a source for that? I have done a little research myself and am having a hard time corroborating that. It seems most people would rather talk about its armor penetration ability. Here is what I did find on HEI ammo:

"A HEI bullet, the MDZ is used for AAA purpose. It has a flat nose and mainly uses a air-compression type of fuze. It is  filled with HE or HE + incendiary charge and a small blasting cap. Actually 5 types of MDZ projectiles are known: The first has a screwed-on air compression fuze, the second a fuze with striker pin and setback safety device. The third has the air compression tube within the projectile jacket and is closed with a brass washer at the flat tip. The fourth is basically the same as the second, but has a streamlined outline and is produced post WWII only. The fifth has also a tracer and is filled with a incediary charge in the nose and a blasting cap and HE below. 
The construction of the "ZP" instantaneous incendiary prtojectile is also not known, so the fifth MDZ type could actually be the ZP type."

Source: http://www.russianammo.org/Russian_Ammunition_Page_145mm.html

 

'Used for AAA [anti-aircraft-artillery] purpose,' implies that it was used by ground weapons only, but maybe that is too literal an interpretation? Maybe the true intention is to say that 12.7 high explosive ammo was available for general purpose anti-aircraft use (planes included).

 

Also, if the Italians used HE in their 12.7 Breda shouldn't that be available in game as well? As it is now, Breda 12.7 does the same point damage as .50BMG.

[viperGerson]

Sorry

Single player

Ana thry shoot me all the time

It doesnt matter if i am at his 6 , 3 , 9 o clock 

Even when I shoot from the 12 o clock I am shot after passing the plane

Sniper.....

By the Way

This SIM is wonderfull

Thaks Guys

[Haza]

@Devs/Jason

Damned if you did and damned if you did'nt. During these testing times I for one would like to pass on my thanks and appreciation to you guys for always trying to take things to the next level, even more so while working under various lock-down restrictions. Whether you get it right or wrong in the updates, I no longer care, however, where it needs sorting you guys are always there striving for the best and I know we should just take one update at a time. 

Therefore my message to everybody is to stay safe, enjoy the update and hopefully we can all survive until the next update as I'm sure that there will something else for you to complain about, but there will be other updates!

 

Regards

 

[E69_Qpassa_VR]

17 minutes ago, viperGerson said:

I still think that the accuracy of the rear gunners from the sturmoviks are overestimated......

Its impossible to aproach the plane from any direction without being shot

could it be fixed please?

thanks

Enter from the above and fast 

[FuriousMeow]

@=SqSq=Civilprotection

I found a better source last night, but I just found this one: http://ww2data.blogspot.com/2015/06/soviet-explosive-ordnance-127mm.html

 

And this has some info:

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by FuriousMeow
info

[6./ZG26_Custard]

The .50 cals are very effective. The first burst ruins the aerodynamics of this 190 and the second burst finishes his flight real quick. This damage model is one of the best out there (if not the best)  I'm more than confident that the devs will iron out any bugs and funny quirks in the coming weeks. My hat goes off to this amazing effort.

 

 

[NiiranenVR]

funny little story ?.   I'm still new to FC , so dont know wether it could happen before new DM  ....but .....

 

 

I was in MP Flying Circus map  , I go down for be a part in a dog fight and try to aim a Brit ..

I didn't notice I was hit , but maybe speed and to much lift up so I loose both my wings ....allmost 

I have about 2 m wings left , the section just above my head - and that was enough so I could control my plane back to friendly side and ditch ?

[357th_KW]

I made a little .50bmg gunnery test scenario for people to use.  6 109Ks just flying along straight and level.  Try out different convergences and see what you think.  It's set to use Bo_Nidle's awesome "Down for Double" P-51 skin by default if you have it - link here.

 

 

50BMGtest.zip

[SqwkHappy]

In sopwith online I had a pilot plink at me from distance trying to snipe as I dove away, maybe six or so detectable hits, a few seconds in the dive my wings shed, hadn't even overrevved the motor. Kind of wondering if some airframe's numbers got messed up in the hurry to get this patch out. Can't say for sure on dive speed, can only assume it was less than 140 at that point, motor was still throttled up and not overrevved, wings might have had a few bullet holes but I don't remember seeing damage, just getting away then wings fall off.

 

[=SqSq=Civilprotection]

@FuriousMeow Thanks! I am always glad to see more sources.

I took a look, and over all, I am pretty well convinced that 12.7 HEI was in use. I do have a couple of reservations:

 

1) "The weight of the high-explosive filler (17.6 grains) and the incendiary filler (19.8 grains) indicates that this would probably be considered an incendiary or spotting bullet."

2) "Information on the construction of this bullet is incomplete... It is believed that the round is employed in the role of an incendiary ranging or spotting cartridge."

Were these HEI rounds actually employed in combat? Should this ammunition be represented in BoX? I am leaning toward yes. My reservations are that these rounds could have been used for zeroing machine guns on aircraft. There are other instances of ammunition purpose built for this role (even for rifle caliber guns). Source (first 90 seconds): 

Anyway, I am pretty well satisfied, but am always happy to read more sources.

 

P.S. I found an interesting article on the fragmentation and incendiary properties of non incendiary ammo. It might be an interesting read. https://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs/rmrs_rp104.pdf

Edited April 11, 2020 by =SqSq=Civilprotection

[alpino]

I wonder if the allied .50 mgs are loaded with AP ammo only.
shouldn't they also fire API?

[Jade_Monkey]

2 minutes ago, alpino said:

I wonder if the allied .50 mgs are loaded with AP ammo only.
shouldn't they also fire API?

 

They have AP only.

[Pikestance]

5 hours ago, LLv24_Zami said:

You do realize that this is not about balance? 

 

How about making every weapon, pilot and aircraft invulnerable. Everyone would be happy?

 

You must not follow MP, because they boo hoo about it all the time. 

 

------------------------------------

 

Anyway, I would like to report what appears to be an oddity. This was on two different occasion. I was chasing a plane (Allied) and we were going over 600 kph. After a while in the chase, the plane zig zag up and down, and then straight down into the ground/ water. 

There was some shooting, but we flew for quite some time. I did not observe any smoke or signs that any part of the plane broke up. 

 

My best guess is that the pilot pulled enough G's going up and down that he went unconscious. Even if this is the case, i am still at a lost on why the plane would do this since I was at well over a km away t the time.  

[=SqSq=Civilprotection]

@Jade_MonkeyDo we know that for sure? I know the load-out screen can only distinguish between AP and HE, but the belts could have a more interesting mix yes? I mean, we clearly have tracer ammunition. Either ball-tracer or AP-T right? Or maybe that is just FX. I guess if there really is only AP ammo for HMGs, then there are a lot of planes that might look forward to API, API-T, or IT ammunition.

[rowdyb00t]

9 minutes ago, =SqSq=Civilprotection said:

@Jade_MonkeyDo we know that for sure? I know the load-out screen can only distinguish between AP and HE, but the belts could have a more interesting mix yes? I mean, we clearly have tracer ammunition. Either ball-tracer or AP-T right? Or maybe that is just FX. I guess if there really is only AP ammo for HMGs, then there are a lot of planes that might look forward to API, API-T, or IT ammunition.

API is currently not modeled. Hopefully someday, I’m looking forward to that as well 

[=RS=Stix_09]

RE: 12.7mmx108mm Beresin (BS) aircraft machine gun ,

Hard to get info , but I doubt HE ammo was used in RU aircraft in ww2. (and not in wide spread use if it was) The majority of sources point to API , AP and APT ammo. Most sources seem to believe it was used as ranging/spotting ammo, as the amount of explosive would not be as effective as API ammo would be , due to lack of penetration and explosive power of such a small bullet (compared to 20mm or larger cannons)

 from
http://ww2data.blogspot.com/2015/06/soviet-explosive-ordnance-127mm.html

Quote:

"The cartridge has a similar appearance to the 12,7mm Degtjarjov, but with a rimmed cartridge case.
Not very much is known about its developement. It is reported to have been test fitted to the Yatsenko I-28 fighter prototype, but the readily developed 12,7mm UB aircraft machinegun had far better performance than the 12,7mm ShVAK.
It was used as an AAA caliber for a short time, but it was not successful and therefore soon taken out of service after its introduced in 1935."

 

The 20mm ShVAK cannons did however use explosive ammo.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShVAK_cannon

 

RE talk about balance , which I find funny as nothing in ww2 was about balance, and most of the 1vs1  that occurs in game is nothing like how  ww2 combat occurred. Plus each side was constantly changing technology as things were always out of balance, (the nature of war between super powers of the day).

 

How ppl cooperate and play, skills etc also alters balance far more that any planes do, just as it did in ww2.

 

I like the patch , more testing and time will tell how it pans out.