Jump to content
LLv34_Untamo

Finnish VirtualPilots - Dynamic War

Recommended Posts

Morning.

I wonder if you have considered advancing the mission? We have been stuck at this impasse of Rzhev and Staritsa now for over a month, it's fairly clear that the Russians cannot roll over the front when the Staritsa factory is repairing between ten and twenty minutes. A fresh change in the front would be most welcome.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Leifr said:

Morning.

I wonder if you have considered advancing the mission? We have been stuck at this impasse of Rzhev and Staritsa now for over a month, it's fairly clear that the Russians cannot roll over the front when the Staritsa factory is repairing between ten and twenty minutes. A fresh change in the front would be most welcome.

 

I would have thought that the blue side would be counter attacking as some of the regular Red squads have been absent. But I guess that the rest have been taken over the slack :-)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That would require more blue squads not flying circles around their remaining AFs at 10km altitude :lol:

There's plenty of really good ground attackers on the blue side, not gonna lie, and it's due to their effort that the map isn't over yet I am convinced,  but not enough to counter the guys on the red side who know what they're doing.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/20/2018 at 10:17 PM, wellenbrecher said:

Oh god please no! :(

 

Yeah, we'll keep it as it is now. I was just bummed about stumbling on to this "feature".

20 hours ago, Leifr said:

Morning.

I wonder if you have considered advancing the mission? We have been stuck at this impasse of Rzhev and Staritsa now for over a month, it's fairly clear that the Russians cannot roll over the front when the Staritsa factory is repairing between ten and twenty minutes. A fresh change in the front would be most welcome.

I was thinking about making a different kind of starting situation and resetting the map after the last planeset has finished. Perhaps one where the map is divided in a line running northwest-southeast instead of the north-south, or even flipping the sides :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And which is why, I believe, the Russians simply can't finish off the German pocket. The repair times are obscene...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Leifr said:

And which is why, I believe, the Russians simply can't finish off the German pocket. The repair times are obscene...

I've been monitoring the situation. There really hasn't been an attempt to destroy the factories. Note that repair time for a factory object is two days. Close a factory -> it won't open in two days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be real easy to finish off the blues. Just kill the factories and then run over everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Leifr said:

Then why hasn't it been done? :P

Because it's easier to complain about the situation on the forum than to actually do something? :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We were just talking about this with Temuri. Maybe we'll come online tonight as reds, and bomb the factories, let the blues out of their misery ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

Because it's easier to complain about the situation on the forum than to actually do something? :P

 

Hey! I'm not complaining, just observing. I'm sure if we (No.504) flew Red things may have changed, as it stands though we're deeply in love with the JU88.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Leifr said:

 

Hey! I'm not complaining, just observing. I'm sure if we (No.504) flew Red things may have changed, as it stands though we're deeply in love with the JU88.

 

Yeah, only joking. I assume many players don't understand the role of the factories.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

Yeah, only joking. I assume many players don't understand the role of the factories.

 

Agreed.

They're sort of outliers on the map, it's easier to hit the depots for a more immediate effect. We never go for the Russian factories because they're too far out and require multiple sorties, even with 3+ JU88s on each one - it's just not worth the effort.

Edited by Leifr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And they're not so much priority targets as they're far away (many steps away), so they don't impact the repair times as much as the closer depots do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Leifr said:

 

They're sort of outliers on the map, it's easier to hit the depots for a more immediate effect. We never go for the Russian factories because they're too far out and require multiple sorties, even with 3+ JU88s on each one - it's just not worth the effort.

I think they wouldn't be such outliers if we could include for example three of them on both sides per mission.

 

Something that would make factories count more is to reduce the repair times of depots. Currently, one tank battle "hop" between a factory and a depot is 20 minutes. Should we, for example, halve this? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

I think they wouldn't be such outliers if we could include for example three of them on both sides per mission.

 

Something that would make factories count more is to reduce the repair times of depots. Currently, one tank battle "hop" between a factory and a depot is 20 minutes. Should we, for example, halve this? :)

 

I think we should rather make factories more relevant by activating the closest intact factory for each mission (just like the depots), so it has a big impact on repair/resupply times. This will also make defending factories very important since losing one will result in the enemy having a factory right next to the front with super fast repair and resupply time for the next mission. Of course, this will also make attacking said factory easy/faster, so perhaps having two factories active isn't such a bad idea.

 

How about having two for each side, where one is the closest to the front and the other is the furthest from the front? (This will also make it possible to close two factories, e.g. Staritsa and Rzhev, during the same mission).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trouble with having two factories is in the total number of objects in a mission already being quite high.

 

I do like the idea that you could push the factories further from the frontline by destroying them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

I've been monitoring the situation. There really hasn't been an attempt to destroy the factories. Note that repair time for a factory object is two days. Close a factory -> it won't open in two days.

 

[Irony on]Strange! [Irony off]

I did several bombing sorties last night in a early morning mission with piss poor weather (great fun :biggrin:) and I would swear that I bombed the factory in Staritza as well as destroying two searchlights at Staritza airfield just for fun. Ribbon did a few sorties with me, but somehow only his crash/dead have been recorded.

Today I looked into the situational webpage and was surprised that it had all been repaired. Which was why I asked those questions earlier on.

 

It basically means that if we do not destroy the factory within 10 min, we should not bother.

The math is quite simple:

 

Pe2/A-20 start to takeoff - 2-3 min

50 km to factory in a straight line (which LW pilots expect) - 10 min

50 km to RTB - 10 min

Landing - 1-2 min

------------------------------------------

Minimum required sortie time: 23 min

Realistic with detour: 30-35 min

Factory repair: 10 min

 

In order to finish off the factory before it is repaired, a certain number of aircraft will have to take it out in one sortie with multiple planes.

 

I don't know how many building have to be destroyed, but I have an average of 10 building each sortie i dont get shot down.

Aircraft needed = Building / 10 + Aircraft attrition to AAA + Aircraft attribution to fighters

 

Remember that winning depends on time!

- How much effort can be done within each virtual pilots gametime.

 

Even if a pilot does not care about his virtual life he still need to have aircraft's in his personal hangar. This adds to the time as there are more pilots flying fighters than bombes.

 

Unless someone can prove my homemade calculation are completely wrong, I can't see the map change anytime soon.

 

Personally this have lessen my feeling toward jumping in ourside Sqd evenings.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plants should be located deep in the rear, supply warehouses near the front line. Supply of equipment and weapons must be handled through the warehouses of supply and not otherwise ( Factory - Warehouse -Troops ). Factory  can not directly supply equipment and weapons to the front !!!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, =SA=Semz said:

Plants should be located deep in the rear, supply warehouses near the front line. Supply of equipment and weapons must be handled through the warehouses of supply and not otherwise ( Factory - Warehouse -Troops ). Factory  can not directly supply equipment and weapons to the front !!!

 

Factory  can not directly supply equipment and weapons to the front !!!

 

I like that idear!

 

Just speculating a bit:

Factories supply warehouses.

 

So what do we don when the frontline moves to close to the factory?

- Do we keep them?

- Do we move the factories off the map?

- Do we add a longer supply time as a penalty as well as make them un-bomb-able?
 

Supply time should depend on transport time.

Does distance and/or road/rail network get into that math?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The plant costs at Staritsa, defense is completely restored in 10 minutes. The following purpose airfield - 10 minutes. A question, how many years it is necessary to bomb the plant prior to a victory))) It is necessary to remove the plants from airfields.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, EAF_Starfire said:

 

[Irony on]Strange! [Irony off]

I did several bombing sorties last night in a early morning mission with piss poor weather (great fun :biggrin:) and I would swear that I bombed the factory in Staritza as well as destroying two searchlights at Staritza airfield just for fun. Ribbon did a few sorties with me, but somehow only his crash/dead have been recorded.

Today I looked into the situational webpage and was surprised that it had all been repaired. Which was why I asked those questions earlier on.

 

It basically means that if we do not destroy the factory within 10 min, we should not bother.

The math is quite simple:

 

Pe2/A-20 start to takeoff - 2-3 min

50 km to factory in a straight line (which LW pilots expect) - 10 min

50 km to RTB - 10 min

Landing - 1-2 min

------------------------------------------

Minimum required sortie time: 23 min

Realistic with detour: 30-35 min

Factory repair: 10 min

 

In order to finish off the factory before it is repaired, a certain number of aircraft will have to take it out in one sortie with multiple planes.

 

I don't know how many building have to be destroyed, but I have an average of 10 building each sortie i dont get shot down.

Aircraft needed = Building / 10 + Aircraft attrition to AAA + Aircraft attribution to fighters

 

Remember that winning depends on time!

- How much effort can be done within each virtual pilots gametime.

 

Even if a pilot does not care about his virtual life he still need to have aircraft's in his personal hangar. This adds to the time as there are more pilots flying fighters than bombes.

 

Unless someone can prove my homemade calculation are completely wrong, I can't see the map change anytime soon.

 

Personally this have lessen my feeling toward jumping in ourside Sqd evenings.

 

Err, you are mightily mistaken about the factory repair timer though. It takes significantly longer for a factory to repair itself.

It's something like 240 minutes or so IIRC. 48 hours.

 

/edit

As for attrition, what attrition? If you are attacking factories with bombers and you are getting shot down by AAA then you are not high enough.

Or let's put it this way:

Since the last tour reset I made 16 sorties. Porky and Leifr did roughly the same amount each.

In that time we lost ONE single plane to AAA as we were too lazy and complacent on the way home once and flew over a Red airfield.

Edited by wellenbrecher
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, EAF_Starfire said:

Pe2/A-20 start to takeoff - 2-3 min

50 km to factory in a straight line (which LW pilots expect) - 10 min

50 km to RTB - 10 min

Landing - 1-2 min

------------------------------------------

Minimum required sortie time: 23 min

Realistic with detour: 30-35 min

Factory repair: 10 min

 

In order to finish off the factory before it is repaired, a certain number of aircraft will have to take it out in one sortie with multiple planes.

 

Factory repair: 10 min? Where on earth do you get this value? Factory objects have a repair time of two days. Now, a factory object might not be counted as destroyed if you don’t destroy enough buildings in the object ”block”. Perhaps that’s why it seemed your bombing had no effect. We can’t track the individual buildings’ status between missions, because it’s not possible to repair the individual buildings, it’s the whole block or nothing. It’s the same for depots. Therefore, if you happen to destroy one or two buildings, they will be repaired when the mission rotates.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Porky said:

It's 2880 minutes, meaning 48 hours.

Oh geez, yes.

My bad, dunno where I got the four hours from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, =SA=Semz said:

Plants should be located deep in the rear, supply warehouses near the front line. Supply of equipment and weapons must be handled through the warehouses of supply and not otherwise ( Factory - Warehouse -Troops ). Factory  can not directly supply equipment and weapons to the front !!!

 

Umm, why is that so? If the frontline moves towards the factory, then the factory will be closer to front line, and eventually it will be overrun. Factories don't have legs to run away with. And if a factory produces say tanks, they can roll right in to battle. And anyways, we do stuff on our server that isn't perfectly realistic or modelled to the slightest detail. We've made gameplay decisions, and this is how it works  ... Deal with it :)

 

 

4 hours ago, =SA=Semz said:

The plant costs at Staritsa, defense is completely restored in 10 minutes. The following purpose airfield - 10 minutes. A question, how many years it is necessary to bomb the plant prior to a victory))) It is necessary to remove the plants from airfields.

 

It's quite easy to close a factory, just a few trips with a bomber. Easier of course if you have friends helping. And: factories have airfields, not the other way round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LLv34_Untamo said:

It's quite easy to close a factory, just a few trips with a bomber. Easier of course if you have friends helping. And: factories have airfields, not the other way round.

 

Lets agree to disagree.

Easy, No!

Simple, yes!

 

Semantics? Yes!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, EAF_Starfire said:

Semantics? Yes!

 

 

Semantics are important in this case because he wanted factories to be removed from airfields. Every factory has an adjacent airfield. So, if no factory, no airfield either. Unless it's an airfield that was closest to a tank battle, but that's a different story :)

 

6 hours ago, EAF_Starfire said:

Just speculating a bit:

Factories supply warehouses.

 

So what do we don when the frontline moves to close to the factory?

- Do we keep them?

- Do we move the factories off the map?

- Do we add a longer supply time as a penalty as well as make them un-bomb-able?
 

Supply time should depend on transport time.

Does distance and/or road/rail network get into that math?

 

 

Currently the closest factory to the frontline is selected from both sides. Their side is linked to the adjacent airfield, so when the airfield is captured, so is the factory. Supply and repair times both depend on the distance (number of tank battles / airfields in between) times a set number of minutes which we can change if needed. For example, we recently halved the repair times for airfields and tank battles to emphasize the importance of closing depots.

Edited by LLv34_Untamo
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, =SA=Semz said:

The plant costs at Staritsa, defense is completely restored in 10 minutes. The following purpose airfield - 10 minutes. A question, how many years it is necessary to bomb the plant prior to a victory))) It is necessary to remove the plants from airfields.

The factory's AAA has the same two day repair time, but the airfield indeed has the lower time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, =SA=Semz said:

Plants should be located deep in the rear, supply warehouses near the front line. Supply of equipment and weapons must be handled through the warehouses of supply and not otherwise ( Factory - Warehouse -Troops ). Factory  can not directly supply equipment and weapons to the front !!!

I like this idea, though for a more realistic (SEOW style) campaign, not the current system. Like Untamo said above, we make gameplay decisions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Я понимаю, что всем угодить нет возможности, спасибо что сервер вообще существует. Возможно для других будет интересней, если завод, все таки будет расположен глубоко в тылу, от которого едет колонна снабжение ( танки, автомобили ........, или поезд ) по железно или простой дороге на склад.   Склад формирует фронт. Когда линия фронта близка к раю карты, то в этом случае завод становиться виртуальным и на карте не отображается. Мне кажется колонны снабжения ( подвижные или нет ), сделают игру интереснее. Склад усилить зенитками и если не уничтожить колонну снабжения то полное восстановление сделать 30 или 40 минут.  Ваш сервер, ваши правила.

 

I understand that there is no way to please everyone, thanks that the server exists at all. Perhaps for others it will be more interesting if the plant is still located deep in the rear, from which the supply column (tanks, cars ........, or a train) is traveling along an iron or simple road to the warehouse. The warehouse forms the front. When the front line is close to the card's paradise, in this case the plant becomes virtual and is not displayed on the map. I think supply columns (mobile or not) will make the game more interesting. Warehouse to strengthen anti-aircraft guns and if not destroy the supply column then a full restoration to do 30 or 40 minutes. Your server, your rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, =SA=Semz said:

I understand that there is no way to please everyone, thanks that the server exists at all. Perhaps for others it will be more interesting if the plant is still located deep in the rear, from which the supply column (tanks, cars ........, or a train) is traveling along an iron or simple road to the warehouse. The warehouse forms the front. When the front line is close to the card's paradise, in this case the plant becomes virtual and is not displayed on the map. I think supply columns (mobile or not) will make the game more interesting. Warehouse to strengthen anti-aircraft guns and if not destroy the supply column then a full restoration to do 30 or 40 minutes. Your server, your rules.

I would like to add moving supply columns, but server cannot handle them.

 

Maybe a "factory > column > depot > column > tank base" chain would work so that destroying column would block repair/supply from source to target for some period of time. For example:
Currently we can have a situation where repair time of tank base is 30 minutes. If there was a column between tank base and depot/factory, the repair time of that column would be the 30 minutes and tank base repair would be counted only when the column is alive. So first 30 minutes to repair the column, second 30 minutes to repair the tank base.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

I would like to add moving supply columns, but server cannot handle them.

 

Maybe a "factory > column > depot > column > tank base" chain would work so that destroying column would block repair/supply from source to target for some period of time. For example:
Currently we can have a situation where repair time of tank base is 30 minutes. If there was a column between tank base and depot/factory, the repair time of that column would be the 30 minutes and tank base repair would be counted only when the column is alive. So first 30 minutes to repair the column, second 30 minutes to repair the tank base.

And if you destroy the supply going to the warehouse then the defense will not form, and the attack from the enemy will capture the target without resistance. That's the war will be) Pilots will need to protect against enemy attacks, supply, warehouses, destroy attacks. A full-fledged strategic war will begin. Want to seize the airfield, protect your resources, that would have formed attacking troops. and not just destroy the enemy's defenses. Attacking troops must be protected from air raids

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, and now to plan how to not make the mission too heavy for the dserver with these changes :)

One option would be to limit the maximum number of airfields of each side on the mission to 3. That would give us approximately a 16 object leeway for columns on each side.

Edited by LLv34_Temuri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, =SA=Semz said:

And if you destroy the supply going to the warehouse then the defense will not form, and the attack from the enemy will capture the target without resistance. That's the war will be) Pilots will need to protect against enemy attacks, supply, warehouses, destroy attacks. A full-fledged strategic war will begin. Want to seize the airfield, protect your resources, that would have formed attacking troops. and not just destroy the enemy's defenses. Attacking troops must be protected from air raids

 

 

Yeah, well, except that doesn't work at all when we take into consideration that most of the time the server is either empty or populated by a single or two-three pilots working at leisure without any opposition. The current system, especially after the tank base repair times were decreased, makes it very hard (at least time consuming since you have to deal with depots or even factories first most of the time) to solo the tank bases. Which I think is good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pilots always go to other servers in search of the best and where serious battles start (I do not want to advertise), where team play is needed, and not where one pilot moves the front line. In the old il 2, there was an ADW server and everyone was waiting for a new war to begin. If the creators of the server do something, new, or improve what others have. All will be here))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Porky said:

 

Yeah, well, except that doesn't work at all when we take into consideration that most of the time the server is either empty or populated by a single or two-three pilots working at leisure without any opposition. The current system, especially after the tank base repair times were decreased, makes it very hard (at least time consuming since you have to deal with depots or even factories first most of the time) to solo the tank bases. Which I think is good.

 

7 minutes ago, =SA=Semz said:

Pilots always go to other servers in search of the best and where serious battles start (I do not want to advertise), where team play is needed, and not where one pilot moves the front line. In the old il 2, there was an ADW server and everyone was waiting for a new war to begin. If the creators of the server do something, new, or improve what others have. All will be here))

And we really don't want to design the system so that it works only for a handful of people. If the dserver would perform better, we would have more slots and more objectives in each mission :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...