Finnish VirtualPilots - Dynamic War

[LLv34_Untamo]

13 hours ago, Carl_infar said:

I felt real fear seeing the circling ducks and ju87Gs near by. I was hopping form forest to forest praying that they dont notice me.

 

Bring a friend with GAZ along on the next ride ... Had the time to test it out couple of nights ago, seems like a lot of fun. Runs out of ammo pretty fast though ?

[Cybermat47]

Nothing like seeing a Spitfire on your tail, then inverting ASAP to show the red stars on your undersides 

[Talisman]

17 hours ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

Spitfire MkXIV added to planeset 7 rear fields without clipped wings or 150 octane gas. Sets 8 and 9 have no restrictions.

Bf 109 F-2 removed from set 1. It had no place there.

 

Thank you Temuri.  I see that you have introduced the Spit XIV at the same time as the Bf 109 G-14.  Thing is, it was the Bf 109 G-6 Late that was introduced in early 1944 about the same time as the Spitfire XIV, not the Bf 109 G-14, which did not arrive until July 1944.  The in-game specification notes for the Spitfire XIV state combat debut as January 1944 (first operational sorties began 8th January 44), which is 6 months before the 109 G-14 arrived.

Also, if you click on this historical combat report (below) from 7th March 1944, it shows Spitfire XIV aircraft engaged with FW 190 aircraft 4 months before the 109 G-14 arrived.

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/610_Harding_7march44.pdf

 

Hope you find this useful.

 

Thank you for your consideration.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

[CountZero]

41 minutes ago, ACG_Talisman said:

 

Thank you Temuri.  I see that you have introduced the Spit XIV at the same time as the Bf 109 G-14.  Thing is, it was the Bf 109 G-6 Late that was introduced in early 1944 about the same time as the Spitfire XIV, not the Bf 109 G-14, which did not arrive until July 1944.  The in-game specification notes for the Spitfire XIV state combat debut as January 1944 (first operational sorties began 8th January 44), which is 6 months before the 109 G-14 arrived.

Also, if you click on this historical combat report (below) from 7th March 1944, it shows Spitfire XIV aircraft engaged with FW 190 aircraft 4 months before the 109 G-14 arrived.

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/610_Harding_7march44.pdf

 

Hope you find this useful.

 

Thank you for your consideration.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

G6 Late is better plane in game then G14, same caracteristics but with 30mm, so in end dosent realy mather. I expected they gona just add Spit14 at planset 8 and then all mods at 9, as its balance thing not historical here.

 

For me planset 5 is strange with G6Late added with all mods so early, and spit9 because of it.

[LLv34_Temuri]

25 minutes ago, CountZero said:

For me planset 5 is strange with G6Late added with all mods so early

Hmm. I seem to recall that when the G6 late is introduced, it should be without MW50.

[=LD=dhyran]

2 minutes ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

Hmm. I seem to recall that when the G6 late is introduced, it should be without MW50.

it is without MW50, its just the basic 109G6late

[CountZero]

Then its my mistake, i was sure it had Mw-50, then why add Spit9, loses the point of yak-9t and la5fn, and allied planset 6 is same as 7, would not then make more sence spit9 added first at planset 6, to make thouse 3 lanset more differant then now.

[1./JG42flesch]

Loose Deuce Planeset 1 said for Blue BF 109 F2 with no 20mm, but this Plane is not aviable!

Only Me 109 E7 as German Fighter.

[LLv34_Temuri]

10 minutes ago, 1./JG42flesch said:

Loose Deuce Planeset 1 said for Blue BF 109 F2 with no 20mm, but this Plane is not aviable!

Only Me 109 E7 as German Fighter.

Yes. I haven’t yet updated the planeset pictures.

[LLv34_Temuri]

14 hours ago, CountZero said:

Then its my mistake, i was sure it had Mw-50, then why add Spit9, loses the point of yak-9t and la5fn, and allied planset 6 is same as 7, would not then make more sence spit9 added first at planset 6, to make thouse 3 lanset more differant then now.

The mid-late sets are somewhat messy, yes. Might need to do those over.

[Talisman]

19 hours ago, CountZero said:

G6 Late is better plane in game then G14, same caracteristics but with 30mm, so in end dosent realy mather. I expected they gona just add Spit14 at planset 8 and then all mods at 9, as its balance thing not historical here.

 

For me planset 5 is strange with G6Late added with all mods so early, and spit9 because of it.

 

My post was in terms of the historical technological time line and not a comparison of characteristics or weapons.  My understanding of the Finnish server is that the geography is certainly not historical, but that the aircraft technological time line is approximately historical in terms of when aircraft are introduced as progress is made through the different plane sets.  Otherwise we might just as well have all the aircraft all the time in one plane set from the get go.  However, perhaps I have misunderstood this and stand to be corrected.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

[SakerVVS]

@LLv34_Temuri I think your PM inbox is full

[CountZero]

4 hours ago, ACG_Talisman said:

 

My post was in terms of the historical technological time line and not a comparison of characteristics or weapons.  My understanding of the Finnish server is that the geography is certainly not historical, but that the aircraft technological time line is approximately historical in terms of when aircraft are introduced as progress is made through the different plane sets.  Otherwise we might just as well have all the aircraft all the time in one plane set from the get go.  However, perhaps I have misunderstood this and stand to be corrected.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

I think its like on any other server, balance first with look of historical, for example why would p47 get 150 oct fuel so early and why p-51 or tempest dot show up before last 2 phases, or why planeset 1 dont have 109Fs or planeset 3 dont have 190a3 , 262 only so late and so on... if its historical planset purly plansts make no sence. It loks aim is to make differant plansets scenarious with balance betwen sides. If you make purly historical planset server , no one would be playing on it, there neds to be middle ground that makes players from both sides play on it.

Edited April 28, 2021 by CountZero

[Talisman]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

I think its like on any other server, balance first with look of historical, for example why would p47 get 150 oct fuel so early and why p-51 or tempest dot show up before last 2 phases, or why planeset 1 dont have 109Fs or planeset 3 dont have 190a3 , 262 only so late and so on... if its historical planset purly plansts make no sence. It loks aim is to make differant plansets scenarious with balance betwen sides. If you make purly historical planset server , no one would be playing on it, there neds to be middle ground that makes players from both sides play on it.

 

Funny, I thought folks were always saying no balance, not about balance, certainly not balance first, lol.  I thought it was about historical aircraft technological time line 'what if' match ups, with a little bit of discretionary balance from the server admin.  A well...

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, ACG_Talisman said:

 

Funny, I thought folks were always saying no balance, not about balance, certainly not balance first, lol.  I thought it was about historical aircraft technological time line 'what if' match ups, with a little bit of discretionary balance from the server admin.  A well...

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

Im sure out of 100s servers online there is few with historical airplanes for mission that runs on it, or even historical maps and ground units for day that mission depicts on server and many h are spend to build and reserch that, and im sure no one exept admin, mission maker and their few frends play on that servers... general public in last few years shows they dont wont full histrical, they wont picture of historical with balanced sides. It is what it is... you could get fully historical ww2 set in some event or coop but not on 24/7 server that have players on it. And on top you cant have historical planset/ground set and unlimited slots per sides, numbers of units/pilots made historical battle what it is, not just units used. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by CountZero

[LLv34_Temuri]

15 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Saker said:

@LLv34_Temuri I think your PM inbox is full

Try now.

[Miroku]

déprimant ce système de Stats, hier je fais une mission Tank totalisant 1491 pts, je suis pénalisé à 100% pour 1 mort, résultat 0 !!!!...????

 

[LLv34_Temuri]

2 minutes ago, Colosky said:

depressing this system of Stats, yesterday I made a Tank mission totaling 1491 pts, I am penalized at 100% for 1 death, result 0 !!!! ... ????

 

I would like to have a separate penalty/bonus system for tanks on the stats site for two reasons:

- Tanks Finish Mission bugs, and it very often doesn't produce log entries with proper end coordinates -> We can't be sure where tank mission was ended, i.e. did the tank player drive back home.

- It takes a hell of a lot more time to drive back home in a tank than to fly back home.

 

@=FEW=Revolves Any idea how to implement this?

[=FEW=Revolves]

48 minutes ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

I would like to have a separate penalty/bonus system for tanks on the stats site for two reasons:

- Tanks Finish Mission bugs, and it very often doesn't produce log entries with proper end coordinates -> We can't be sure where tank mission was ended, i.e. did the tank player drive back home.

- It takes a hell of a lot more time to drive back home in a tank than to fly back home.

 

@=FEW=Revolves Any idea how to implement this?

 

Sure I'll separate the bonuses/penalties for tanks. Should be done in like ~6 hours (when I get the time, it's a 30 min change) and I'll publish a new bundle version then.

 

The relevant places to change are "update_bonus_score" in src/mod_rating_by_type/stats_whore.py, and one needs to add new mod_tank_XXXXXX variables in src/mod_rating_by_type/score.csv (while making sure the variable name length is less than 24 characters otherwise it won't work)

[LLv34_Temuri]

46 minutes ago, =FEW=Revolves said:

Should be done in like ~6 hours (when I get the time, it's a 30 min change) and I'll publish a new bundle version then.

No rush, you're already agile enough! ?

[=FEW=Revolves]

45 minutes ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

No rush, you're already agile enough! ?

 

Saw that too late, I'm already done :)

 

To ease the merge: The only template I changed was the src/stats/tankman_sortie.html. Otherwise a bunch of changes in mod_rating_by_type and mod_stats_by_aircraft .py/.csv files files.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

Please review the stats points amounts planes are worth.  Before any post-sortie bonuses or penalties, I'm getting 70 points for BOTH Bf-110 G2s and Hs129s.   That's not what the info panel on the site says.

I'm getting the impression that quite a few pilots may be getting low-balled on their true total points. 

 

Also, how the hell is the 110 G2 worth less than or the same as Yak9?   

Even if you went by (real world) construction cost in materials, the 110 is going to cost alot more.  If you go by ground destructive power, the 110 is worth alot more.  If you go by the in-game Fokker Dr.1 with Bf110 skin flight modeling, it's worth alot more.  Hell, if you even go by guns and ammo load and leave out the rest of the plane, that's still worth more.  

[LLv34_Temuri]

12 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

That's not what the info panel on the site says.

Info panel on the site is for the values for the campaign app. Values are like that so that we wouldn't discourage ground pounders.

Stats site then has it's own values for sorties shown in stats.

 

An update:

From next mission rotation, there will be a Repair/Rearm/Refuel vehicle on the temporary airfields next to the tank spawn. It will repair, rearm, and refuel tanks, AA vehicles, and airplanes within 1000 m. When destroyed, the RRR vehicle will itself be repaired after two minutes.

Edited April 29, 2021 by LLv34_Temuri

[315_R2r]

As for Me-262 - top one for K/D ratio 3.73

next one is now new Spitfire XIV - 2.36

all others below 1.93....

No counter part in air for Me-262 but hey, let blue have it...

No counter part on ground for Tiger, Ferdinand and Panther, let blue have it....

but where there is for a limited time GAZ only on red side, let blue have it as well ?

lucky red's don't need to wait for C-47 to paradrop ?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

58 minutes ago, 315_R2r said:

As for Me-262 - top one for K/D ratio 3.73

next one is now new Spitfire XIV - 2.36

all others below 1.93....

No counter part in air for Me-262 but hey, let blue have it...

No counter part on ground for Tiger, Ferdinand and Panther, let blue have it....

but where there is for a limited time GAZ only on red side, let blue have it as well ?

lucky red's don't need to wait for C-47 to paradrop ?

 

That's ok.   If Red doesn't abandon the map - and can withstand the planeset #9 Blue wave - we'll have it won when planeset #1 through #4 comes back around. 

[FeuerFliegen]

13 hours ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

Info panel on the site is for the values for the campaign app. Values are like that so that we wouldn't discourage ground pounders.

Stats site then has it's own values for sorties shown in stats.

 

An update:

From next mission rotation, there will be a Repair/Rearm/Refuel vehicle on the temporary airfields next to the tank spawn. It will repair, rearm, and refuel tanks, AA vehicles, and airplanes within 1000 m. When destroyed, the RRR vehicle will itself be repaired after two minutes.

 

Only at temporary airfields?  What about normal tank spawns?

[LLv34_Temuri]

2 minutes ago, SCG_FeuerFliegen said:

 

Only at temporary airfields?  What about normal tank spawns?

Those can be added too. In those, I would actually not have them respawn after they are destroyed, and have them count towards frontline movement.

[FeuerFliegen]

9 minutes ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

Those can be added too. In those, I would actually not have them respawn after they are destroyed, and have them count towards frontline movement.

 

In that case, will you have more than one?

 

 

At this point, we're just constantly re-spawning anyway, giving the same effect, but it's a hassle

[LLv34_Temuri]

1 minute ago, SCG_FeuerFliegen said:

 

In that case, will you have more than one?

Yes. IIRC, there are four "tank position" objects in the tank spawn group. One for each type of "R" perhaps (Repair, Rearm, Refuel, and Reheal)?
The service radius also needs to be shorter than on the temporary fields, maybe something like 500 m.

[LLv34_Temuri]

New version of campaign app running on both servers.

There will now be only one sector that has player tanks. When generating a mission, the campaign app checks if a sector has a town in a suitable location for a CP, and if such a sector is found, the tank spawns (three) are placed in that sector. So in short: the campaign app wants to give tank players towns to fight for.

[Carl_infar]

yesterday the missions time ended while my tank was operational and crew was healthy, tank was only slightly dmaged by a single hit which sustained a hour before the missions end. In the missions log the tank is counted as destroyed.

 

Would it be possible to change it, so if the missions time ends the tank isnt automatically counted as destroyed?

 

The reson behind that, is that the battle for cps usually intesifies just before the missions end , so there is no time to drive back for which usually u need quite a long time anyway as this are not planes.

[Amyel]

14 hours ago, 315_R2r said:

As for Me-262 - top one for K/D ratio 3.73

next one is now new Spitfire XIV - 2.36

all others below 1.93....

No counter part in air for Me-262 but hey, let blue have it...

No counter part on ground for Tiger, Ferdinand and Panther, let blue have it....

but where there is for a limited time GAZ only on red side, let blue have it as well ?

lucky red's don't need to wait for C-47 to paradrop ?

That is very misleading if you show only one piece from a whole set.

 

So Me-262 should be very limited but no mention that the next 3 planes belong to allied side?
Does that mean that till planeset 9 (so quite brief period of time of a rotation) and limited availability of Me-262 allies has totally OP planes - with no limits whatsoever and avaialable for half of a planeset rotation?

 

Next piece of a information we also have is time flight and kill per hour.
Me-262 was flown for 1h15m and achieved 1.44k/h - meaning that the beast had scored 2 air victories.

The worst out of those 3 allies planes mentioned above is La5FN.
K/d only(!) 1.91 - which is still bigger than any other german plane than 262.
But it K/h is whooping 2.25 and it has been flown for 40hours in this rotation.
So it's 90 planes down in total.

 

But sure Me-262 has the biggest impact on battle flow.

 

[CountZero]

3 hours ago, Amyel said:

That is very misleading if you show only one piece from a whole set.

 

So Me-262 should be very limited but no mention that the next 3 planes belong to allied side?
Does that mean that till planeset 9 (so quite brief period of time of a rotation) and limited availability of Me-262 allies has totally OP planes - with no limits whatsoever and avaialable for half of a planeset rotation?

 

Next piece of a information we also have is time flight and kill per hour.
Me-262 was flown for 1h15m and achieved 1.44k/h - meaning that the beast had scored 2 air victories.

The worst out of those 3 allies planes mentioned above is La5FN.
K/d only(!) 1.91 - which is still bigger than any other german plane than 262.
But it K/h is whooping 2.25 and it has been flown for 40hours in this rotation.
So it's 90 planes down in total.

 

But sure Me-262 has the biggest impact on battle flow.

 

Thats 1day and 15h and 0min of flying that airplane. its day/h/min.

Also by clicking on airplane you can see in detail more stats and how many airplanes it shoot down and so on...56 in this case.

http://stats.virtualpilots.fi:8000/en/aircraft/1321/NO_FILTER/?tour=41

and check its killboard also...

 

But yes like with any stats detail mather, and time he are flown also, there is reason why 262 time in air is so limited, if its unlimited it would be out of charts in it stats, unlike other airplanes that are close to each other. I belive one tour they should realy try unlimiting every airplane and mod and see what hapends as ppl will just keep belive 262 is no problem and axis are nerfed by its limits for no good reason.

 

P.S.

 

also considering it only shows up in last planset, only 2 other airplanes that show up in last planset are 11lbs Tempest and 150oct 51, and when you look at them only also you see unlimited Tempest have 5day18h flying time, and crapy .50 p51 has 1day 12h time, so limited 262 is still flown good amount of time with his 1day 15h, thats only 5 times less then 11lbs Tempest, that is basicly only good late war airplane on allied side because of "fix" of .50 cal. while you get 109K41.98 30mm, D9 and 262 on axis in late set.

Edited April 30, 2021 by CountZero

[Amyel]

38 minutes ago, CountZero said:

Thats 1day and 15h and 0min of flying that airplane. its day/h/min.

My bad - misunderstood units.

However principle will stay valid.

 

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

Tempest have 5day18h flying time

You forgot to add time when plane is upgraded and carries bombs. After the drop it does not lose performance

 

 

41 minutes ago, CountZero said:

I belive one tour they should realy try unlimiting every airplane and mod and see what hapends

 

Wouldn't hurt to see - honestly (at least for pilots and not tankers) that will modify availability of 1 plane only - Me-262.

I have mentioned before that maybe we could get a limit for every plane coming to pool for its first planeset.

After all when e.g. Tempest (and every other plane) was available to allied/axis pilots - it also didn't came in spades. Couple of sqadrons first etc.

That way it stays the same for Me-262 as it is right now, but at the same time axis would not fight swarms of Tempest in planeset 8 - that priciple would go other way around too.

 

 

 

 

 

[CountZero]

45 minutes ago, Amyel said:

 

 

You forgot to add time when plane is upgraded and carries bombs. After the drop it does not lose performance

 

its 1 day extra, and from what i see its K/D is 0.7 and K/h 1.0 then ,  so it does hurt its performance

 

45 minutes ago, Amyel said:

 

Wouldn't hurt to see - honestly (at least for pilots and not tankers) that will modify availability of 1 plane only - Me-262.

I have mentioned before that maybe we could get a limit for every plane coming to pool for its first planeset.

After all when e.g. Tempest (and every other plane) was available to allied/axis pilots - it also didn't came in spades. Couple of sqadrons first etc.

That way it stays the same for Me-262 as it is right now, but at the same time axis would not fight swarms of Tempest in planeset 8 - that priciple would go other way around too.

yes only 262 is limited, if it gets unlimited i would like to see what would happend, as i belive there is ppl who are of total oposite opinion then me and think there is no reson for it to be limited, my opinion is it should not even be alowed in 24/7 servers, same for upcoming ar 234. 

 

Limiting other airplanes based on historical stuff makes 0 sense to me if you on other hand dont limit amount of slots per side to be historical. Allieds had mutch more airplanes in air at that time then axis, but in game you can have unlimited slots. So just equipment limit based on historical excuses dosent make historical enviroment, it just benefits side that gambled out of desparation on small number high tech or prototype airplanes vs side that said we have planty of good enought airplanes to owerwhelm enemy so no need to send in our prototypes or best performers in bigger numbers.

logic behined 262 limit is because its by far better perfoming airplanein game, not because any historical numbers, if its by history it would be in same amount as 109k4 or d9 and it would be in planset in 7 insted 9.

If in ww2 axis had eaqual number of pilots, equipment, fuel, recorces as allieds had (what you have on online servers in game) , allieds would have to send p-80, p-51H, p-47N, P-63... insted what it had. 

 

 

examle of broken logic i usely see:

-ppl will say to limit 23mm as historicly 23mm on lagg-3 needs to be limited because it was used in ww2 in low numbers, they had to have them for il-2s

- so in game server will limit it based on historical stuff.

- but slots or resorces per side are unlimited, not historical.

- so if game makes history where vvs have same number or less pilots then axis, and both side have unlimited or equal resorces, how is true that 23mm gun is not produced in good number to be fit on all lagg-3 ? both cant be true ,

-situation server creates then makes no sence, historicly 23mm gun would not be in limited supply if vvs had unlimited supply or small number of airplanes to fit with 23mm gun when they had to have only same number of airplanes as axis and no more.

 

or why would soviets go to make t-34 if they just had to make smaller number of high tech tanks, if they had to face axis tanks on eaqual numbers or recorces, historicly they would not make t-34 if situation was like that where you dont have number advantage in making less quality tank to counter small number of high quality tanks.

Edited April 30, 2021 by CountZero

[iFoxRomeo]

19 hours ago, 315_R2r said:

As for Me-262 - top one for K/D ratio 3.73

next one is now new Spitfire XIV - 2.36

all others below 1.93....

No counter part in air for Me-262 but hey, let blue have it...

No counter part on ground for Tiger, Ferdinand and Panther, let blue have it....

but where there is for a limited time GAZ only on red side, let blue have it as well ?

lucky red's don't need to wait for C-47 to paradrop ?

Yes the 262 has the best K/D. K/D has no timeframe.

K/D has a psychological effect, especially in a computer game. It's clearly visible here. 

In a real war with limited amount of pilots, K/D tells something different than in a game. In WWII it showed how desperate the 3rd Reich was and how limited the amount of pilots was. In a game with unlimited pilots, K/D doesn't tell about the impact on the game. Kill per hour does. And here the 262 is good, but not on the top. The Tempest's impact is higher for example, or the Spitfire IX.
 

 

2 hours ago, CountZero said:

Thats 1day and 15h and 0min of flying that airplane. its day/h/min.

Also by clicking on airplane you can see in detail more stats and how many airplanes it shoot down and so on...56 in this case.

http://stats.virtualpilots.fi:8000/en/aircraft/1321/NO_FILTER/?tour=41

and check its killboard also...

 

But yes like with any stats detail mather, and time he are flown also, there is reason why 262 time in air is so limited, if its unlimited it would be out of charts in it stats, unlike other airplanes that are close to each other. I belive one tour they should realy try unlimiting every airplane and mod and see what hapends as ppl will just keep belive 262 is no problem and axis are nerfed by its limits for no good reason.

 

P.S.

 

also considering it only shows up in last planset, only 2 other airplanes that show up in last planset are 11lbs Tempest and 150oct 51, and when you look at them only also you see unlimited Tempest have 5day18h flying time, and crapy .50 p51 has 1day 12h time, so limited 262 is still flown good amount of time with his 1day 15h, thats only 5 times less then 11lbs Tempest, that is basicly only good late war airplane on allied side because of "fix" of .50 cal. while you get 109K41.98 30mm, D9 and 262 on axis in late set.

Did anyone request unlimited amount of 262s?

 

As you mention it. The P51/150octane with less flighttime had a Kill/hour of 1.5, while the 262 had 1.44. Both shot down 56 aircraft, and the 262 needed more time to achieve this. So the aircraft with the often criticized marshmellow shooting .50cal was more useful. Hm...

 

Tempest V./11lbs:

Flighttime of 5 days 18 hours vs. 1 day 15 hours on the 262. You say only 5 times less? That's huge, and considering that the Tempest and P51 are also available in the 8th plane set the available playtime for the 262 is even more restricted.

The Tempest has a Kill/hour of 2.77 and shot down 384 aircraft.

So which of these aircraft had a greater impact on the gameplay on the server during the 9th plane set?

 

Just to make myself clear, as many people have the need to read between lines, where there is no intended information between them:

I don't want the Tempest V or 150oct/P51D limited or any other plane. I just think that the limitation of the 262 is too strict and should be adjusted, but I'm not suggesting unrestricted amount of 262s as people would get tears in their eyes seeing this.

 

Well, as the admins totally avoid to participate in this discussion, nothing will change in this regard.

 

Fox

[Amyel]

If you take Me262 away then it's safe to say (looking at statistics) that allies have better planes. They might be close to their counterparts in terms of performance but still we can see they are performing better.

 

In terms of historical numbers - at the beginning of the war those numbers would be in favour of axis. And at the same time thier planes might have an techincal advantage.

But it's the same for other side at the end of war. So no need to mess around with numbers of players.

But limiting the best performing planes at their introduction will prevent them from being spammed, making them special and valuable to the team.

Also will bring some love to older models.

Not sure what are you trying to say about mods.

As it's stated - server goes for plane performance when setting it within planesets not historical introduction date (more or less), so if mod is bringing significant improvement to performance it might sit within next planeset.

 

 

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

p-80, p-51H

Didn't see any action in ww2 so not really.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

I suggest BOTH sides get identical planes with server-provided mandatory side-specific paintjobs.  I guarantee that Axis vs. Axis will be close and Allies vs. Allies will be a total squash favoring the side that regularly flies Allies vs. players that regularly fly Axis.       

 

Sorry buddy, but the fact is that it's pilot skill that's got you pissed not planes that may have 1, maybe 2, areas of advantage over planes that have all the other areas on solid lock.

The stats don't reflect that there is a much larger group of new pilots with very little, or zero, die-rinse-repeat experience that start with Axis planes vs. Allied planes.

 

Besides, if you can't provide actual DATA that shows each aircraft's performance + weaponry and compares advantages to disadvantages, the whole "Allies are OP by default" argument is just stupidity.

The only reason that the 262 can be said to be OP vs the Allied prop-driven planes is because it doesn't take an idiot to see that a plane that has a 150 to 200kph speed advantage at any given time AND rapid-fire lobs hand grenades at its target has no adequate counter available. 

 

Me, personally, I don't care about that.  Yes it sucks to have to avoid a plane that there's little chance of success in fighting but, it's also a bit of history that that was the actual reality.  

 

You apparently want the team that prop plane vs. prop plane doesn't start gaining any sort of performance parity with Axis until the war was beyond halfway over (and still was unable in many key areas) to be further handicapped because you either a) would rather kick puppies then get mad if it bites back  or b) suck as a pilot.

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, Amyel said:

If you take Me262 away then it's safe to say (looking at statistics) that allies have better planes. They might be close to their counterparts in terms of performance but still we can see they are performing better.

 

In terms of historical numbers - at the beginning of the war those numbers would be in favour of axis. And at the same time thier planes might have an techincal advantage.

But it's the same for other side at the end of war. So no need to mess around with numbers of players.

But limiting the best performing planes at their introduction will prevent them from being spammed, making them special and valuable to the team.

Also will bring some love to older models.

Not sure what are you trying to say about mods.

As it's stated - server goes for plane performance when setting it within planesets not historical introduction date (more or less), so if mod is bringing significant improvement to performance it might sit within next planeset.

 

Look at stats, both sides have almost same pilot numbers, flying time is same, did axis in ww2 have thouse same conditions bs allieds whole war ? server depicts whole war in 3 months and says axis and allieds have eaqal stuff, didnt allieds had more in ww2, how can you have limits of airplanes based on history but not putt reasons why they are build or used in thouse numbers also into equasion.

 

So the way servers are set, by alowing axis to be eaqual in flying time or pilots on server, axis side is already placed in advantage position online.

 

1 hour ago, Amyel said:

 

Didn't see any action in ww2 so not really.

 

Thats the point, they would see action in ww2 big time if axis in ww2 had same number of airplanes, or sorties flown, or pilots as allieds had in ww2, like it is depicted on online servers.

Thats why numbers of slots are important when you wont to make planset historical, if in real ww2 axis had same recorces as allieds, allieds would be flying their prototypes also. 

 

Who would invade Normandy if he had to face enemys that can have same number of units in air, and do same amount of combat sorties as you, and on top have same number of tigers or panthers waiting for your Shermans.

1 hour ago, iFoxRomeo said:

Yes the 262 has the best K/D. K/D has no timeframe.

K/D has a psychological effect, especially in a computer game. It's clearly visible here. 

In a real war with limited amount of pilots, K/D tells something different than in a game. In WWII it showed how desperate the 3rd Reich was and how limited the amount of pilots was. In a game with unlimited pilots, K/D doesn't tell about the impact on the game. Kill per hour does. And here the 262 is good, but not on the top. The Tempest's impact is higher for example, or the Spitfire IX.
 

 

Did anyone request unlimited amount of 262s?

 

As you mention it. The P51/150octane with less flighttime had a Kill/hour of 1.5, while the 262 had 1.44. Both shot down 56 aircraft, and the 262 needed more time to achieve this. So the aircraft with the often criticized marshmellow shooting .50cal was more useful. Hm...

 

Tempest V./11lbs:

Flighttime of 5 days 18 hours vs. 1 day 15 hours on the 262. You say only 5 times less? That's huge, and considering that the Tempest and P51 are also available in the 8th plane set the available playtime for the 262 is even more restricted.

The Tempest has a Kill/hour of 2.77 and shot down 384 aircraft.

So which of these aircraft had a greater impact on the gameplay on the server during the 9th plane set?

 

Just to make myself clear, as many people have the need to read between lines, where there is no intended information between them:

I don't want the Tempest V or 150oct/P51D limited or any other plane. I just think that the limitation of the 262 is too strict and should be adjusted, but I'm not suggesting unrestricted amount of 262s as people would get tears in their eyes seeing this.

 

Well, as the admins totally avoid to participate in this discussion, nothing will change in this regard.

 

Fox

Players sugested there should not belimits on 262, or if they are there should be limits on Tempest also. 

To me 5 to 1 in flying time is not big advantage in tempest favor considering how mutch better 262 is vs any airplane in game, would 3-1 or 2-1 be fair ? i think its already to advantagus towards axis, but if people think axis is doing bad because 262 is only airplane limited i just think to prove that im right and they are wrong its easy to just unlimit 262 as no mather how mutch losen its limit are, untill its tested ppl wil still belive axis lose because limits put on their fighters or bombers.

But the way i se it they by default have big advantage by being alowed to even have eaqual numbers online.

Edited April 30, 2021 by CountZero

[JG1_Wittmann]

On 4/27/2021 at 6:45 AM, ACG_Talisman said:

 

Thank you Temuri.  I see that you have introduced the Spit XIV at the same time as the Bf 109 G-14.  Thing is, it was the Bf 109 G-6 Late that was introduced in early 1944 about the same time as the Spitfire XIV, not the Bf 109 G-14, which did not arrive until July 1944.  The in-game specification notes for the Spitfire XIV state combat debut as January 1944 (first operational sorties began 8th January 44), which is 6 months before the 109 G-14 arrived.

Also, if you click on this historical combat report (below) from 7th March 1944, it shows Spitfire XIV aircraft engaged with FW 190 aircraft 4 months before the 109 G-14 arrived.

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/610_Harding_7march44.pdf

 

Hope you find this useful.

 

Thank you for your consideration.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

So on the one hand  you are thanking Temuri for removing  the F2  from planeset 1,  even though,  historically  it would belong there as production on the 2 ended in aug of 41,  for that matter the first F models flew in bob.  Then on the other hand  you argue to have an ac introduced solely  based on it's historical introduction date.  So LL should balance the German AC,  but use a historical timeline to introduce Allied AC ?      I think it has been said, more than once by LL  that the ac are not according to historical dates but have been balanced.