Tactical Air War

[=OPFR=C_DAT]

Can anyone confirm/deny if late war U.S. aircraft will be incorporated into the next round of TAW?

[BG26_Ogg]

1300 hours.  thinking we don't have too long to wait now.
Going to give a shot at VVS this time around.

>S<

[350th_Buzz]

Impatient, very impatient ... Even if I fly little on a campaign it is for me the best of the best on "BOS" !!!

[Pict]

54 minutes ago, Ogg said:

1300 hours.  thinking we don't have too long to wait now.
Going to give a shot at VVS this time around.

>S<

 

Good on you Ogg ...

 

..."shot at VVS" is a recurrent theme in TAW, at least from my experience 

[Chivas_Regal]

5 hours ago, Ogg said:

Going to give a shot at VVS this time around.

>S<

Be sure to try Pе-2. I think you'll like it

[=LG/F=Kathon]

Hi and welcome back

 

This was a long break and a lot of work has been done to make TAW on Rheinland map. That was much harder and challenging than I expected. We are now on the test stage and we plan to start new campaign on the Rheinland map this Sunday 08.03.

 

Stay tuned. 

[[GCA]T1m270]

Ohhhh baby here we go

[Operatsiya_Ivy]

Start on the Rheinland map? 

[[=PzG=]-Southernbear]

Ah shit...here we go again!

 

I personally can't wait for this...but I have heard MANY people's concerns about balance with BoBP FMs and just the over all power of the planes apparently being not *quite* right. 

 

We shall see...should be good

[=KG76=flyus747]

What about the Eastern Front TAW?

 

Will there be alternating campaigns, does this mean we will see TAW more frequently (when ones over, the other is on etc...) Or same frequency of TAW just now only one front every other campaign (Eastern, break, Western, break...)

[=GEMINI=IngegnerTommy]

Will this Western front campaign based on a single map (stage) and full BoBP planeset, or will it still feature some kind of progression using early planes (e.g. for allies: Spit MKV ,A20 —> P38, P47, MKIX unboosted —> P51, Tempest unboosted —> P51, Tempest fully upgraded) ?

 

I know the current (allied)  planeset offering on the western front is not as wide as for Eastern one, but with a little bit of compromise on historicity I think TAW can still offer that progression which is, I believe, a key driver of its popularity. And of course it would be also a first step to be completed once BoN is out.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by =GEMINI=IngegnerTommy

[HR_Tumu]

Nice... TAW again.

 

Please explain us something more.... we suffer a bit lacke of information i think.

 

Thx

[=KG76=flyus747]

@=LG=Kathon

 

Will RRR be in TAW?

[336th_Cooper]

2 minutes ago, =KG76=flyus747 said:

@=LG=Kathon

 

Will RRR be in TAW?

Ooo I hope so, I love RRR in DCS feels more realistic then hitting finish mission and respawning in the same plane. 

[WG_Magners]

29 минут назад, =KG76=flyus747 сказал:

@=LG=Kathon

 

Will RRR be in TAW?

Sorry, but what is RRR?

[Alonzo]

Just now, WG_Magners said:

Sorry, but what is RRR?

 

Repair, Refuel, Rearm.

[WokeUpDead]

32 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

Repair, Refuel, Rearm.

 

I haven't encountered this yet, what does it look like in game? Is there a way to set it up in QMB or a short mission to try it out or would I have to find a server that has it implemented?

[Alonzo]

31 minutes ago, WokeUpDead said:

I haven't encountered this yet, what does it look like in game? Is there a way to set it up in QMB or a short mission to try it out or would I have to find a server that has it implemented?

 

Knights of the Air has this mechanic implemented, I think you can try it there. Basically there is a specific part of an airfield that you can taxi to after landing, where you can hold down a repair/refuel/rearm keyboard shortcut, and your plane will be repaired. On KOTA they indicate the repair spot by a green flare (I think).

[WokeUpDead]

4 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

Knights of the Air has this mechanic implemented, I think you can try it there. Basically there is a specific part of an airfield that you can taxi to after landing, where you can hold down a repair/refuel/rearm keyboard shortcut, and your plane will be repaired. On KOTA they indicate the repair spot by a green flare (I think).

Ah OK, thanks. Would this be mandatory to get the same plane up in the air again? If we don't RRR, do we lose the plane? If that's the case I think I'd prefer we not have this feature in TAW, taxiing and waiting isn't fun for me, I'd much rather use that time to take a short break in-between flights.

[=KG76=flyus747]

49 minutes ago, WokeUpDead said:

 

I haven't encountered this yet, what does it look like in game? Is there a way to set it up in QMB or a short mission to try it out or would I have to find a server that has it implemented?

KOTA has been implementing this in their server since the RRR feature came out back in October.

 

They also have AFs that can be destroyed mid game. It's an interesting concept gotta say. The other popular servers have yet to implement this. CB has toyed with the idea but as far as I know, it's stuck in development hell. I've asked the admin but gotten little response. I don't know about WOL.

 

Perhaps the biggest issue with RRR is how stats are counted. For instance in WOL and CB, a multiplyer of x0 is imposed when you die. That means your 7 kills and 13 tank kills which would have better you 3000 points will now be 0.

 

For some the points don't matter, for some it does matter considerably and therefore shapes how they fly. Why would they risk flying the same plane over and over without "cashing in" their successes? What would this issue look like if carried over to TAW and it's exp system? I'd like to hear the TAW admins take on this.

 

RRR is still in its infancy. You can repair, rearm, refuel but you can't change skins, revive dead gunners, refill Gunner ammunition etc...

 

For more details, I created a topic about this back in October:

 

[Alonzo]

1 minute ago, =KG76=flyus747 said:

The other popular servers have yet to implement this. CB has toyed with the idea but as far as I know, it's stuck in development hell. I've asked the admin but gotten little response. I don't know about WOL.

 

Perhaps the biggest issue with RRR is how stats are counted. For instance in WOL and CB, a multiplyer of x0 is imposed when you die. That means your 7 kills and 13 tank kills which would have better you 3000 points will now be 0.

 

For some the points don't matter, for some it does matter considerably and therefore shapes how they fly. Why would they risk flying the same plane over and over without "cashing in" their successes? What would this issue look like if carried over to TAW and it's exp system? I'd like to hear the TAW admins take on this.

 

Basically, RRR is much lower priority for us than other mission features (or building new missions) and if we're going to have it, we'd like it to make sense in the context of the mission and not just be a "cool thing" that players think they want but end up not using (for the reasons you described). Additionally KOTA experienced server instability due to RRR, and CB has enough of those problems already due to our ambitious missions. We have a map at the design phase where we think we can use RRR effectively and where it will mean something, we'll have to see how that pans out.

 

I suspect RRR doesn't make sense for TAW. You probably want to finish mission when you land and have your kills counted, earn a CM, etc. Airframes in TAW are already limited per-pilot, so being able to repair an in-use airframe doesn't add much.

[=KG76=flyus747]

2 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

Basically, RRR is much lower priority for us than other mission features (or building new missions) and if we're going to have it, we'd like it to make sense in the context of the mission and not just be a "cool thing" that players think they want but end up not using (for the reasons you described). Additionally KOTA experienced server instability due to RRR, and CB has enough of those problems already due to our ambitious missions. We have a map at the design phase where we think we can use RRR effectively and where it will mean something, we'll have to see how that pans out.

 

I suspect RRR doesn't make sense for TAW. You probably want to finish mission when you land and have your kills counted, earn a CM, etc. Airframes in TAW are already limited per-pilot, so being able to repair an in-use airframe doesn't add much.

I understand. The RRR in its current build is not without its faults and for many map makers, that is enough to dissuade them.

 

KOTA initially experienced server instability but this was later fixed in one of the patches so they reinstalled it. One can see they really were eager to bring it in and make it work for them, but different servers, different goals.

 

At the moment I would agree that TAW doesn't make sense with RRR because of how IL2 handles scoring (it only calculates after you finish mission) but maybe the TAW devs have done something outside my understanding of possibilities which was why I asked.

 

 

 

[JuliMonkey]

Great the campaign is starting on sunday and my new joystick won‘t be delivered til then?

[FTC_DerSheriff]

So I guess some details would be nice ?

[SE.VH_Boemundo]

Expecting next TAW encourages fighters to assist attackers and bombers. What is the purpose of medals for fighters only defending targets, not assiting in attacks? I have never seen a map lost due lack of aircraft or pilots, due to lack of tanks yes. Ground attack wins the war. Begins tomorrow?

Edited March 7, 2020 by =BLW=Tales

[=LG/F=Kathon]

New TAW campaign starts on Sunday 08.03.2020 at about 11:00 UTC.

 

Changes for Rheinland TAW:

• Rheinland area. There will be two maps: Allied offensive on the first map, and Axis counter-offensive (operation Bodenplatte 01.01.1945) on the second map.
• The same probability of capturing for both sides
• Both sides have also information when others are attacking enemy targets (on the eastern front only Axis had it)
• No paratroopers yet (not enough time do do it)
• Airfields are closed if enemy tanks are about 30km from it (18km from the border airfield)
• Plane set:
• 
• For the record: Live penalty is 20h  but it's possible to fly with penalty if your side is smaller (after 10min from the mission start)

Know bug:

• Allied side is generated as Soviet Union. It will be fixed in the future. 
• Allied diplomas are also as Soviet version.

If you notice any other issues please raport it here: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/25544-taw-bugs-errors-and-problems/

 

Let's treat this campaign as a big test. You will have many suggestions for sure so it will be improved in the future. 

 

Registration is open.

 

Good luck! 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

This campaign is a separate campaign so after it there will be break and we will start east front and the west front and so on. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by =LG=Kathon

[FTC_DerSheriff]

So it starts on the eastern front?
Or on the rheinland map with old aircraft?

 

Nevermind western front with new aircraft it is.

Suggestion to rename the "P-38 Sturm" to "P-38 Attacker" or Attack Version.

Edited March 7, 2020 by DerSheriff

[Major_T]

Registered up! Cant wait to see everyone there lol

[WokeUpDead]

2 hours ago, DerSheriff said:

So it starts on the eastern front?
Or on the rheinland map with old aircraft?

 

Nevermind western front with new aircraft it is.

Suggestion to rename the "P-38 Sturm" to "P-38 Attacker" or Attack Version.

Haha, and here I spent all this time on WoL practicing the Eastern front instead of flying in Combat Box...

[JuliMonkey]

13 minutes ago, WokeUpDead said:

Haha, and here I spent all this time on WoL practicing the Eastern front instead of flying in Combat Box...

And i thought that i will suffer at the start of the campaign, because i just flew on Combat Box 

[-332FG-Hank_DG]

4 hours ago, =LG=Kathon said:

• Rheinland area. There will be two maps: Allied offensive on the first map, and Axis counter-offensive (operation Bodenplatte 01.01.1945) on the second map.

 

So with only 2 maps, Is it safe to assume this campaign will be significantly shorter?

[=LG/F=Kathon]

2 hours ago, -332FG-Hank_DG said:

 

So with only 2 maps, Is it safe to assume this campaign will be significantly shorter?

It will be shorter than the last one for sure, but when Normandy is release there will be more maps  We started a few years ago with only two maps on the Stalingrad...

 

The plane set has been updated.

[FTC_Riksen]

32 minutes ago, =LG=Kathon said:

 

The plane set has been updated.

 

There must be a mistake in the planeset. The Spitfire becomes unavailable for map 2. It does not make sense to remove the plane from the list since it was used until the very end of the war. Maybe have a 18lbs version only for map 1 and the 25lbs for map 2 but please do not completly remove it from the plane set. This is the plane I enjoy the most in that plane set so I must ask you to reconsider.

[Pikestance]

My unit represents for different units. KG 51, ZG 76, JG 26 and JG 77. 

JG 77 flew the 109 K-4 bu for some reason it is not allowable to fly for "reasons." I noticed the 190 D-9 is, which is fine for JG 26. 

The approach of the unit is historical. We fly the planes flown at the time of the server regardless if it "considered" better or worse. 

[FTC_Riksen]

5 minutes ago, [=PzG=]-FlyinPinkPanther said:

My unit represents for different units. KG 51, ZG 76, JG 26 and JG 77. 

JG 77 flew the 109 K-4 bu for some reason it is not allowable to fly for "reasons." I noticed the 190 D-9 is, which is fine for JG 26. 

The approach of the unit is historical. We fly the planes flown at the time of the server regardless if it "considered" better or worse. 

 

K4 is allowed to fly in both maps so Im not sure what you are talking about there.

My approach is also historical so why limit the Spitfire? It is by far the worst plane of the set in terms of speed but it just look too good to be left out

 

Besides from that plane set list we can already see what most of the Luftwaffe will be flying anyways. It will be like Berloga where you have 262s everywhere. There should be additional limitations to the amount of 262s in the map if you plan to keep it fun for everyone.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Riksen

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Yeah, the planeset is definitely weird in that regard. No G-14 nor Spit for the second map when they were some of the two most prevalent models even during Bodenplatte attack in Jan 1945. The initial planes for map 1 are also a bit of a no-historical but no-balance either. I wouldn't consider the P-47 the equivalent to the G-14, the Spit the equivalent to the A-8 and the Dora the equivalent to the P-38...  The A-8 without bombs for the first map wouldn't be correct either, while the F-8 is a fairly late plane suited for map 2 the normal A-8s had the central pylon bombs available and there were the earlier F models available such as the Fw 190 F-3 (basically our Kuban A-5 with Jabo mod).

Also I don't know how many 262s would be available in a particular mission, everyplayer having access to one 262 could end up troublesome if the mayority of the team use them simultaneously.

I feel like the planeset should have been discussed with the community beforehand if the dev team was having doubts about either historicity or balance concerns and not 1 day before the campaign starts. The way it is now is neither historical nor balanced... it's weird and seems put together at the last minute without making use of the experience of playing other servers such as Combat Box or Kota that have been using BoBP planes for months.

Edited March 8, 2020 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[[GCA]T1m270]

That was also going to be my question, should be interesting if the majority of the Axis team is flying 262' during the round..

[Pikestance]

39 minutes ago, Riksen said:

 

K4 is allowed to fly in both maps so Im not sure what you are talking about there.

My approach is also historical so why limit the Spitfire? It is by far the worst plane of the set in terms of speed but it just look too good to be left out

 

Besides from that plane set list we can already see what most of the Luftwaffe will be flying anyways. It will be like Berloga where you have 262s everywhere. There should be additional limitations to the amount of 262s in the map if you plan to keep it fun for everyone.

 

 

I don't know the image shows 0/1 which  mean I have zero out of 1 aircraft. m I reading it wrong then. I have 1 K-4. if so, what does the "zero" mean. 

it is either historical or gamy or ahistorical. Pilots in real life had to deal with the realities of different aircraft. In some cases, they had inferior aircraft. But as so many veteran pilots have said, it is the pilot that matters. As Chuck Yaeger said, "when I first saw a jet, I shot it down. MP servers need to stop pandering to such attitude. Like I tell my own pilot who would rather fly "x" plane, it is what they flew, they dealt with it, and so should you. if this was WOL I wouldn't care, but TAW goes out of its way to be realistic why turn gimmicky now. 

 

The presence of the 262 should be the same ratio as that in history. otherwise, TAW is becoming gamey. Balance is a "warcry" of gamers not historical realist. (then is when the gamers will come in about what isn't realistic about the game mechanic red herring argument). You control what you can control. 

 

Back to the K-4. There isn't that much of a difference between the K-4 and the G-14.Some would argue that the G-14 is better. In fact, there are pilots in my squadron who would rather fly the G-14, than the K-4. Moreover, the D-9 is considered better than both, and yet that is flyable and the K-4 isn't. 

[FTC_Riksen]

2 minutes ago, [=PzG=]-FlyinPinkPanther said:

 

 

I don't know the image shows 0/1 which  mean I have zero out of 1 aircraft. m I reading it wrong then. I have 1 K-4. if so, what does the "zero" mean. 

it is either historical or gamy or ahistorical. Pilots in real life had to deal with the realities of different aircraft. In some cases, they had inferior aircraft. But as so many veteran pilots have said, it is the pilot that matters. As Chuck Yaeger said, "when I first saw a jet, I shot it down. MP servers need to stop pandering to such attitude. Like I tell my own pilot who would rather fly "x" plane, it is what they flew, they dealt with it, and so should you. if this was WOL I wouldn't care, but TAW goes out of its way to be realistic why turn gimmicky now. 

 

0/1 means you start off with 0 but can earn the plane as you accumulate combat mission (CM). What you propose is the ideal scenario but the GAME has limitations and you should take those into consideration. For example, the server only has 84 slots and some other planes are not available yet. Other factors like limited fuel and pilot shortages as well as poor training in the Luftwaffe are not taken into consideration but since you seen to be the type of guy that commits to history which is something I also enjoy let's do some fact checking and commit to them shall we? So here we go:

1. The III./JG77 only started to use the K-4 around mid-October 1944 and even then, it was a mix of G models and K4s until about December. Make sure you and your squadron, for historical sake, commit exclusively to the G14 before Oct 14 1944 during the campaign;

2. The II./JG26 only started using Doras at end of November 1944 so again, for historical purposes, you should not be using it before this dates. Commit to the Anton series for a bit in the begining;

3. II./ZG76 switched to the Me-410 in July 1944 and remained with that ariframe until Feb 1945 when it was converted into the III./JG54 so make sure you exclude that unit from the campaign so we stick to the historical background.

4. Despite having the latest models, like the K4, D-9, and the 262, being delivered to the front, their usage was largely limited by the lack of fuel, pilots, and maintenance. Also, remember that most Bf-109s available were not K4s but a mixture of other G models including G-10s and G-14s in a proportion close to 2:1 (2 for non-K4 models). I addition, there is limited data that supports the use of C3 fuel and, therefore, the wide use DC engine in the Luftwaffe with only evidence of one test unit;

5. We should also therefore apply the numbers in terms of balance as you suggested, with some source claiming that the ratio between Allies and Germans was close to 10:1 in favor of the Allies. So perhaps, again, for historical purposes, let's limit the spots in the server to 7 for the Axis and 77 for the Allies. After all, we all want to be historical here right?

 

25 minutes ago, [=PzG=]-FlyinPinkPanther said:

Back to the K-4. There isn't that much of a difference between the K-4 and the G-14.Some would argue that the G-14 is better. In fact, there are pilots in my squadron who would rather fly the G-14, than the K-4. Moreover, the D-9 is considered better than both, and yet that is flyable and the K-4 isn't. 

 

If there is no large difference between them, why do you need the K4 then? You obviously do not know the planes you fly very well. The K4 is arguably the best plane in the game and, in the hand of a good pilot, very hard to be destroyed. I know the rate of success largely depends on the pilot skill but this only applies in a balanced matchup. I bet even the best pilot in the game here would do poorly if he was flying a U-2 against a Spitfire Mk.IXe.

 

Once you snap back to reality and factor game mechanics into it then, please,  propose something useful to us.

[Alonzo]

2 hours ago, [=PzG=]-FlyinPinkPanther said:

Pilots in real life had to deal with the realities of different aircraft. In some cases, they had inferior aircraft. But as so many veteran pilots have said, it is the pilot that matters. As Chuck Yaeger said, "when I first saw a jet, I shot it down. MP servers need to stop pandering to such attitude. Like I tell my own pilot who would rather fly "x" plane, it is what they flew, they dealt with it, and so should you. if this was WOL I wouldn't care, but TAW goes out of its way to be realistic why turn gimmicky now. 

 

The presence of the 262 should be the same ratio as that in history. otherwise, TAW is becoming gamey. Balance is a "warcry" of gamers not historical realist. (then is when the gamers will come in about what isn't realistic about the game mechanic red herring argument). You control what you can control.

 

You'll be flying Allied against the 262, then? Oh no, sorry, I guess you're doing your pretend history on the blue side and enjoying your teammates invulnerably vulching enemy airfields while you mop up any stragglers.

 

My prediction (based on my experience running Combat Box) is that unless the 262 is extremely limited, Allies won't bother logging in. TAW has tools to limit the 262 that Combat Box does not, such as earning planes through CMs. I hope the admins consider that the 262 needs to be a 'rare' plane and either difficult to earn or simply available in very limited numbers each mission.

 

Krupinski has a 15 kill sortie in a 262 on Combat Box. Let that sink in for a second.