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Tactical Air War

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19 hours ago, Ala13_UnopaUno_VR said:

 

 

Thanks to these four beautiful Ju-52s, we recover Gzhatsk.

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Gracias a estos cuatro bellos Ju-52, recuperamos Gzhatsk.

Mission took us (6players) over 1h, reward --> 1cm and no points  🤯 also supplying fields is not very rewarding either. Maybe this could change in the future???

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On the subject of invincible VVS planes and their deadshot rear gunners...

 

Today an I16 spent 6 minutes chasing my 110 back to base after a high-speed bombing run. The I16 scored multiple hits from dead-astern, knocking out my port engine and starboard cooling system (among other damage). I made it back to my AF on one engine. The red, however, crashed after absorbing a short burst (presumably to the engine) from my AI rear gunner’s peashooter.

 

Tactics matter.

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I haven't been following TAW for a while now, but I wanted to jump back in, but I've got a question that honestly should be solved by the manual that hasn't been updated in years....

Are Depots no longer targets?  They don't have any damage % and there's no recon photo.  They do have a defense level though, so I guess the idea is now they are attacked by ground forces only?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding.  Someone who knows the backend please help me out here.

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21 hours ago, CamusB455 said:

I haven't been following TAW for a while now, but I wanted to jump back in, but I've got a question that honestly should be solved by the manual that hasn't been updated in years....

Are Depots no longer targets?  They don't have any damage % and there's no recon photo.  They do have a defense level though, so I guess the idea is now they are attacked by ground forces only?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding.  Someone who knows the backend please help me out here.

Depots are targets, they have damage % recon photos Click nearest af, scroll down, you're welcome 👍  http://taw.stg2.de/airfields.php?map=Moscow_South&name=Dyatlovo

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4 hours ago, LLv24_StableAce_VR said:

Depots are targets, they have damage % recon photos Click nearest af, scroll down, you're welcome 👍  http://taw.stg2.de/airfields.php?map=Moscow_South&name=Dyatlovo

Ok, thank you. For some reason I thought those were designated as "factories".  Don't ask me why I thought that.  So, what about the cities of Bashkino and Sychevka?  Those are actually what I was referring to, mistaking them for depots.

 

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Salute...realism knob needs to turn little bit further. 

1. Every squadron designated to one task...Fighter , Jabo, Or Bomber . Everybody can fly transport.

2. Squadron have 10 pilots= 10 number one planes. Spare planes are basic planes poorer equipped (loads).

3. Squadron have base field...if field is captured or getting out operation squadron is moved automatically. Squadron is possible move few days period.

4. If plane is landed other field (not home base) its ditched...crash or bailed its lost.

 

In two hour period its kind of fun to fly ...Ju88, Ju87, Bf109, Bf110...etc...all of them. Same time its mixed arcade feeling...

Lets make this as real as its possible...Happy landings. 

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1 hour ago, LLv24_Oke said:

Salute...realism knob needs to turn little bit further. 

........

 

Copy of Air domination war server (Il-2 1946) system...literally.... that means movement further to the hardcore side......

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On 11/25/2019 at 6:09 PM, Manstein16 said:

On the subject of invincible VVS planes and their deadshot rear gunners...

 

Today an I16 spent 6 minutes chasing my 110 back to base after a high-speed bombing run. The I16 scored multiple hits from dead-astern, knocking out my port engine and starboard cooling system (among other damage). I made it back to my AF on one engine. The red, however, crashed after absorbing a short burst (presumably to the engine) from my AI rear gunner’s peashooter.

 

Tactics matter.

A quick fast dive with a narrow cone of fire to the back is always a great tactic. Shame that we get the G-2 only by map #6 though.

 

Just wait till the new Pe-2 enters in map #3 and they will get their belt-fed turret. The whining will become even more pronounced. F-2/F-4 with their single Motorkanone and soft V-12 are just asking for it. Imho it's much better to use 110s for that.

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I find the 110g2 has a very dangerous gunner. Taking what fenris says I reckon it's the speed of the G2 that  makes it effective. The faster the plane is, the more likely your attack path will take you into the cone of death.

1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

A quick fast dive with a narrow cone of fire to the back is always a great tactic. Shame that we get the G-2 only by map #6 though.

 

Just wait till the new Pe-2 enters in map #3 and they will get their belt-fed turret. The whining will become even more pronounced. F-2/F-4 with their single Motorkanone and soft V-12 are just asking for it. Imho it's much better to use 110s for that.

 

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1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

The whining will become even more pronounced.

 

Is that even possible? :biggrin:

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So, i dont know how's the discussion about the gunner going right now, but i have to say, last 5 flights i've been pilot killed by Pe-2 gunner on first hit or second, they just always hit something everytime they have the possibility (geometric) to hit, can we do anything to fix that? it looks to me that you can get more AA kills on bombers while doing AG then in fighters, do we all have to fly bomber and kill each others with gunners? or it's going to be worth to bring any kind of escort cover with you if you fly bomber? just sending an ACMI with this post for an example that im sure you'll not even need, it's just insane how they always hit.

dogfight.2019-11-26_16-25-10_00.rar

Is that normal? to get hit on first shooting while diving with that angle 90% of times?

 

gunner.thumb.png.96f0affb8304fd287f0d8388d73ac55e.png

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2 hours ago, Prancingkiller said:

So, i dont know how's the discussion about the gunner going right now, but i have to say, last 5 flights i've been pilot killed by Pe-2 gunner on first hit or second, they just always hit something everytime they have the possibility (geometric) to hit, can we do anything to fix that? it looks to me that you can get more AA kills on bombers while doing AG then in fighters, do we all have to fly bomber and kill each others with gunners? or it's going to be worth to bring any kind of escort cover with you if you fly bomber? just sending an ACMI with this post for an example that im sure you'll not even need, it's just insane how they always hit.

dogfight.2019-11-26_16-25-10_00.rar 772.18 kB · 0 downloads

Is that normal? to get hit on first shooting while diving with that angle 90% of times?

 

gunner.thumb.png.96f0affb8304fd287f0d8388d73ac55e.png

I fly a lot on Pe2. At this moment my gunnerss shot down 5 fighters for more than 100 sorties. At the same time, my plane was shot down by fighters 18 times. This can be seen now from my statistics on TAW.
I think you just need to learn how to shoot down Pe2. Many other pilots know how to do this.

Edited by =2ndSS=Lawyer1
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I've never been killed on a Pe2 yet, and i've killed some, but still, they always hit everytime they can geometrically hit, since that's something that have been reported many times, about this plane in specific, how much is about me learning how to engage and how much you learning how to survive on it? Repeat, many many people think this gunner is too accurate, insanely accurate, just curious, do you even have a track or ACMI of you being killled on a Pe2? For what i see in the TAW logs you could be flying upside down with gunner not shooting at all

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15 minutes ago, Prancingkiller said:

I've never been killed on a Pe2 yet, and i've killed some, but still, they always hit everytime they can geometrically hit, since that's something that have been reported many times, about this plane in specific, how much is about me learning how to engage and how much you learning how to survive on it? Repeat, many many people think this gunner is too accurate, insanely accurate, just curious, do you even have a track or ACMI of you being killled on a Pe2? For what i see in the TAW logs you could be flying upside down with gunner not shooting at all

Take Pe2 and fly it yourself on the TAW server. Then brag about your victories, I will look at it with pleasure)

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15 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Take Pe2 and fly it yourself on the TAW server. Then brag about your victories, I will look at it with pleasure)

As i've said, i have never been killed on a Pe2 yet, and i made many flights, any ACMI of your blind gunner? Must be the only one, you so unlucky they assigned him to you

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1 minute ago, Prancingkiller said:

As i've said, i have never been killed on a Pe2 yet, and i made many flights, any ACMI of your blind gunner? Must be the only one, you so unlucky they assigned him to you

Look at the statistics of any other pilot who flies on Pe2 to TAW. Find there at least one whose number is hit by gunners more than they hit him.

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Here is some thoughts...from fight/flight reports

 

1. Attacking Pe-2 is most of cases in IL-2 very dangerous. Meaning that most of cases it causes lost of plane or pilot.

Meaning that behind own area u have to crashland or bail...plane is lost.

Behind enemy line this is fatal almost every time. 

 

Almost every time when Pe-gunner starts firing...he hits his target....This is just type 35 ...type 87 is much more dangerous.

When I was flying Pe-2 earlier campaign I wonder one thing ? I flyed over one hour mission throttle up to 100 % without any broblems ?

I was not  get attacked by fighters or anything else flyable so I dont personally know its gunners. I am just saying that gunners might be little overtuned here....

 

 

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2 minutes ago, LLv24_Oke said:

Here is some thoughts...from fight/flight reports

 

1. Attacking Pe-2 is most of cases in IL-2 very dangerous. Meaning that most of cases it causes lost of plane or pilot.

Meaning that behind own area u have to crashland or bail...plane is lost.

Behind enemy line this is fatal almost every time. 

 

Almost every time when Pe-gunner starts firing...he hits his target....This is just type 35 ...type 87 is much more dangerous.

When I was flying Pe-2 earlier campaign I wonder one thing ? I flyed over one hour mission throttle up to 100 % without any broblems ?

I was not  get attacked by fighters or anything else flyable so I dont personally know its gunners. I am just saying that gunners might be little overtuned here....

 

Of course man, i think next time i would not even try to dive on a Pe2 again, that must be what most 109's pilot does, and thats why you see many Pe2's flying alone over the FLOT, just people dont wanna lose their lives, that's a game changer, and i think it's wrong

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All the gunners in this game shoot accurately and blue and red and rightly so

Edited by =2ndSS=Lawyer1
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Solution to pe-2 problem is simple.

 

Leave them alone, its like Canadian Geese. You mess with one, and you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

 

Also, use 110 instead. Far better Bomber swatter. 

 

:dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:

Edited by Cpt_Siddy
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2 minutes ago, LLv24_Oke said:

"...All the gunners in this game shoot accurately and blue and red and rightly so..."

 

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=27103&name=LLv24_Oke

 

 

Amen to that...

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=24819&name==2ndSS=Lawyer1

 

Do not shoot the same way :salute:

Edited by =2ndSS=Lawyer1

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3 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

So what? Do you have an ACMI of that? How do we know what you were doing and if your gunner was geometrically able to shoot? Pointless log, even more because he hit you only once, probably not from the back so your gunner wasnt even shooting

Edited by Prancingkiller2

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25 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

So what? Do you have an ACMI of that? How do we know what you were doing and if your gunner was geometrically able to shoot? Pointless log, even more because he hit you only once, probably not from the back so your gunner wasnt even shooting

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=27418&name==2ndSS=Lawyer1

 

Stop crying on the forum and learn to attack the bomber from those who can))

You yourself are exposed to the fire of shooters and then you blame them for your failures

Edited by =2ndSS=Lawyer1
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18 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=27418&name==2ndSS=Lawyer1

 

Stop crying on the forum and learn to attack the bomber from those who can))

You yourself are exposed to the fire of shooters and then you blame them for your failures

stop arguing with stupid and senseless logs that doesnt show what happened during the engagement, now, with AI gunner you already have an automatic rear radar that wont miss any spot opportunity to fighter's engaging you, you also need to have a super aim gunner that will hit 90% of times when they have the geometric angles to fire to go and fly out there kid?

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6 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

stop arguing with stupid and senseless logs that doesnt show what happened during the engagement, now, with AI gunner you already have an automatic rear radar that wont miss any spot opportunity to fighter's engaging you, you also need to have a super aim gunner that will hit 90% of times when they have the geometric angles to fire to go and fly out there kid?

There are fighters who are shot down by bombers, and there are little girls who complain about how they are offended 😁

Who are you?

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1 hour ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

Of course man, i think next time i would not even try to dive on a Pe2 again, that must be what most 109's pilot does, and thats why you see many Pe2's flying alone over the FLOT, just people dont wanna lose their lives, that's a game changer, and i think it's wrong


This gets trotted out every TAW. I have my doubts that anyone playing this game even halfway seriously just doesn't engage enemy bombers for fear of the gunners. People say it on the forum, but people say lots of things on the forum. Some players have a cycle of claiming they will stop attacking Pe-2s or playing TAW altogether, then a week later post a video of them attacking a Pe-2, then claim again they will stop attacking Pe-2s...then they will attack me on a sortie later that night.

When I have flown Pe-2s, I have encountered fighters (i.e. they actually landed hits on me) the same proportion of times as when I flew Il-2s or A-20s. Roughly around 50%.  My grand total combined kills from Pe-2 gunners last TAW was ... 1. Out of something like 30 sorties. I got shot down so often in Pe-2s I ran Il-2 sorties more frequently. Gunners didn't help me at all, I had a better survival rate in the Il-2 1941 than I did in the Peshka.


 

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19 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

There are fighters who are shot down by bombers, and there are little girls who complain about how they are offended 😁

Who are you?

im not the little girl going out with unlimited sight gunner and automatic super aiming, and defending it at all costs because you're not able to fly without  😁

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2 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

im not the little girl going out with unlimited sight gunner and automatic super aiming, and defending it at all costs because you're not able to fly without  😁

Do not cry baby)

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11 часов назад, Prancingkiller2 сказал:

is that forum all full of that stupidity or there are also real people to talk with? 

Hey man. Just suggestion. Select Quick Mission, place PE2 at alt - 500m, yourself at 3km, dive and... practice, practice and practice. Speed, angle and deflection, all you need to excel with. Once you manage to start hitting it from ~500m with enough load of bullets and turn away before getting too close then you should be good to escape it most of the time. You don't need to put it down, just hit it hard enough and leave it out; it won't see its sweet home :)

Much more hard time with new generation of Pe2 (as mentioned) so... practice)))

Edited by 72AG_Obi

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On the topic of Pe-2 real gunners vs. fighters, are there any videos somewhere showing how to properly engage Pe-2s with fighter aircraft? I couldn't find any on YouTube.

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39 minutes ago, Daneelas said:

On the topic of Pe-2 real gunners vs. fighters, are there any videos somewhere showing how to properly engage Pe-2s with fighter aircraft? I couldn't find any on YouTube.

 

Here's one showing now not to do it, but it offers an analysis and tips on how to do it and survive.

 

Key word being patience.

 

 

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looks like you guys are pretending to not see the problem, and trying to turn around to avoid it, the fact is that almost every time that a gunner is shooting on TAW is going to hit the fighter, and it's not me telling you that, is the waaaay majority of people flying on TAW that have noticed that, even people who fly the Pe-2 itself (but i would agree it's about all gunners), now, you can avoid the gunner to shoot at all? yes you can, angles and speed, of course you can, but that doesnt solve the problem that if you give the gunner even a little window to hit you he's almost always going to kill you, and that change the way a lot of people fly on this server, i've seen many 109's not engaging me on the Pe-2, alone or with a friend, literally intentionally,  and how to blame them? dont you ask why you have a Pe-2 spam on red side? even single-ships going out there and coming back? bad.

And i repeat, go in the server and talk with the people, 99% of them will tell that gunners are too accurate. fighter or bomber's pilot.

Edited by Prancingkiller2

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A lot of people are also ignoring the fact that, in level flight most early model 109's aren't much faster than a Pe-2 and continually make attacks, losing energy with each pass.  Getting all the dive speed at the right time is essential.  Set your high speed/high angle attack to succeed the first time or don't bother.  You'll only wind up creeping up in a slow-closing tail chase with the Pe-2 like you're trying to doggy-style a porcupine if you loop around or try to regain altitude to trade for speed multiple times. 

Edited by Mobile_BBQ
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31 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

Here's one showing now not to do it, but it offers an analysis and tips on how to do it and survive.

 

Key word being patience.

 

Yes, in theory, properly attacking Pe-2 is easy, but in reality, it is more complicated. Patience means time, and in our virtual war scenario, you often don't have time to properly attack. It's even more difficult in the first maps since E-7 and F-2 are not much faster the Pe-2.

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56 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

Here's one showing now not to do it, but it offers an analysis and tips on how to do it and survive.

 

Key word being patience.

 

 

This is not helpful. This obviously is not the way to do it. Still, I am looking for a video on how to do it.

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