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Tactical Air War


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#6801 HenHawk

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Posted Today, 01:21

I simply do not see the issue if the gunners for either side are using the same code. It would be as ludicrous to say that 109's need to be modified in such a way so they cannot go faster than 550 kph because a Yak 1 can't keep up otherwise. The PE-2 has a fantastically powerful defensive gun set, true, but the German gunners score hits at a similar rate. How is that unfair?

Now you’re being a bit silly, pretty poor analogy. This issue is about immersion for me. It kills the whole feel of the game to have my engine shot out or to be pk’d when I setup a well planned attack, but still get hit with what should be an impossible shot. PE2’s are just more able to do this with they way they are designed and the way the AI is. I go back to my original post, if you still want to act like this is an imaginary thing held in the minds of people that want to see the blue side gain all the advantages, then take my challenge and fly a lot of sorties on the German side. It really should say something that I fly bombers for the most part and am still asking to universally adjust AI levels to normal.


WOL stat, dec-2017

NAME SORTIES AK PERC
he111 h16 179 44 0,245810055865922
pe2 35 series 910 138 0,151648351648352
he111 h6 1738 89 0,0512082853855006
ju88 2494 381 0,152766639935846
bf 110 e2 3073 303 0,0986007159127888
pe2 87 series 5583 1062 0,190220311660398

as you can see, the Pe2 87 is better than ju88, 110e2, 111 h6

best one is he111 h16

P.S: the stat here is not 100% clear, some people attacked the AF and it will be also calculated as AK (human player on the ground). But i think it shows at least that the blue team should use he111 h16: =)

Very interesting stats. Kathon, do you have similar stats for TAW? Not sure WoL is the best data set, but it does give a fair picture of things.

Edited by HenHawk, Today, 01:23.

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#6802 Kra

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Posted Today, 01:22

What are the wind settings on this server and is the column flanked by trees? The usual TAW experience often involves ridiculous winds and killer trees

 

As i said before the good weather needed. Somethimes it is there, at lest 15..20% of the missions.


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#6803 Disarray

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Posted Today, 02:09

Hen, well planned attacks get shut down, if this were not the case then everyone with a well put together plan would succeed even the plans that are working in opposition to each other. You can do everything according to your well considered and set up plan and still fall flat on your face, even if you properly accounted for all the variables and possible outcomes. Sometimes you need something to go left in your plan and instead it goes right, or up or down or any other direction that isn't left. What are called impossible shots get made. Any plane with a tail gunner is capable of making these 'impossible' shots, not just the PE-2's gunners. 


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#6804 HenHawk

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Posted Today, 02:29

Disarray, go fly more German sorties online. Many more.
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#6805 Disarray

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Posted Today, 03:13

The number of German sorties I've flown is entirely irrelevant to this issue.


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#6806 HenHawk

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Posted Today, 03:34

The number of German sorties I've flown is entirely irrelevant to this issue.

 

It's completely relevant to your opinion on the topic. It gets so tiresome to try to find solutions to problems that allow everyone to have a fun experience, only to have those that either over exaggerate the issue or completely discount others and deny anything even exits.  There is no reason multiple threads, videos, and stats need to be presented to you, or anyone else, that once again shows that there is a clear unrealistic behavior to the PE2 gunners.  All you nonsense paragraphs filled with "I think" and "it shouldn't be a problem" are just a bunch of one-sided theories. There are many that have practical experience and have looked into the stats. Do that, then come back and discuss. In the meantime, let everyone else have a discussion about what to do with something that is a known sim-killing experience.


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#6807 Disarray

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Posted Today, 04:38

If the gunners are of equal skill, that is the gunners on any plane are as likely to hit the target they are shooting at then adjusting the gunner's skill is a pointless exercise. All you will achieve, even if we assume your premise that the PE-2 gunners are somehow special, is make all the gunners bad and the PE-2 just mediocre. The only result to expect from this is more dead German bombers. That won't help anything.

 

As for the PE-2 gunners being special, I'll apply a little logic for you to try to help you get over this. Which is more likely: The gunners and the gun positions have been specially programmed to be more effective. Or the defensive guns being 12 mm guns make them more effective at killing fighters? You seem to think you have all the experience and the only valid point of view, so clear that up for me.


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#6808 HenHawk

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Posted Today, 05:00

Snip: “Every blue flyer is making this stuff up”

Fine, I will indulge you this one time by going through what has already been found, but after this I won’t help you with trying to reinvent the wheel. PE2 blister turret = great field of fire, along with other guns onboard. It is packed with hard hitting 12mm. Great, that’s realistic, let’s fight.... but, hold on. Gunner AI set too high can do snap shots even at high speed attackers, at their edge of fields of fire, and during high g maneuvers. They can also track planes in clouds or in low vis situations. Others can speak on the exact specifics of AI logic way better than I can, but if you just take what I mentioned alone, it’s clear there will be problems with PE2 gunners in particular. So, dumb down all gunners so there is less accuracy during those crazy situations. Yes, PE2’s will still get the majority of defending kills relative to most bombers. But, situations where an attacker is coming in at 30-60 degrees, going 700kph, and making a slash attack, only to have engine/pilot killed insta-killed, should be reduced.... hopefully for both sides!

Crazy AI behavior seems like less of an issue for German bomber gunners because they mostly have weaker armaments, lower fields of fire, and can’t pull as much G. This all equals less red pilots saying “what the **** was that?!”. Clear as mud for you now?
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#6809 56RAF_Roblex

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Posted Today, 08:31

Fact1:  The code used for AI gunners is identical for both sides.

Fact2:  The PE2 design has better placed and more powerful guns so will kill more attackers.

 

If you turn down the effectiveness of the PE2 guns a little to allow pilots who make very careful high speed passes to mostly survive then most people will still make stupid attacks and die and the complaints will continue.

If you turn down the effectiveness of the PE2 guns a lot to allow pilots to get away with stupid attacks then the effectiveness of the LW bomber gunners will also reduce a lot and people will complain that the LW bombers wont defend themselves and there is no point flying them.

 

What people are really asking here is for the PE2s gunners to be weakened but the LW gunners to stay the same and I cannot agree with that.


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