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#6801 SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 09:16

Last TAW campaign, hunting Peshkas wasn't much of a problem. Just bring gunpods on the Me109, or the standard 4x 20mm on the FW, and attack from the flank and above. Never just straight from above, made that mistake too many times...

Flying the Zerstörer with 37mm, 2x 20mm, 2x 7.92mm is also quite immersive and a lot of fun. You can hunt the late Peshkas with their turret like that.

My point is, the armament is there to deal with Peshkas. :)
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#6802 LLv24_Zami

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 09:42

Fact1: The code used for AI gunners is identical for both sides.
Fact2: The PE2 design has better placed and more powerful guns so will kill more attackers.

If you turn down the effectiveness of the PE2 guns a little to allow pilots who make very careful high speed passes to mostly survive then most people will still make stupid attacks and die and the complaints will continue.
If you turn down the effectiveness of the PE2 guns a lot to allow pilots to get away with stupid attacks then the effectiveness of the LW bomber gunners will also reduce a lot and people will complain that the LW bombers wont defend themselves and there is no point flying them.

What people are really asking here is for the PE2s gunners to be weakened but the LW gunners to stay the same and I cannot agree with that.

Fact 3: gunners with heavy machine guns and low rate of fire should not get same hit rate as the gunners lighter guns and high rate of fire. No matter what plane or nationality. Especially when firing from bomber making evasive maneuvers.
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#6803 19//Darbzy

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 10:57

When does registration open for the next campaign?


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#6804 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 11:14

What kind of Squad would Destroyers like us be? What could we name us?


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#6805 Dakpilot

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 11:45

Fact 3: gunners with heavy machine guns and low rate of fire should not get same hit rate as the gunners lighter guns and high rate of fire. No matter what plane or nationality. Especially when firing from bomber making evasive maneuvers.

 

Not to argue' but I would check comparative rate of fire with Russian UBT and UBK 12.7 mm compared to German defensive armament, it is surprisingly close, also ballistics of UB are V good

 

also don't forget that 12.7mm and ShKAS on the nose of Pe-2 when pulling up in front area

 

This is not about Pe-2 simply historic gun performance

 

Cheers, Dakpilot


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#6806 LLv24_Zami

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 13:08

Not to argue' but I would check comparative rate of fire with Russian UBT and UBK 12.7 mm compared to German defensive armament, it is surprisingly close, also ballistics of UB are V good

 

also don't forget that 12.7mm and ShKAS on the nose of Pe-2 when pulling up in front area

 

This is not about Pe-2 simply historic gun performance

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

 I know what their rate of fire are. And I`m talking about rear gunners, not front pointing weapons. I still think that it`s just impossible to shoot with hmg like rear gunners do in this sim. Least what can be done is to restrict the all gunner skill levels to normal or was it average, I don`t remember which it was. Anything above is very unrealistic imo.


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#6807 No.615_RedKai_Lae

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 13:38

Last TAW campaign, hunting Peshkas wasn't much of a problem. Just bring gunpods on the Me109, or the standard 4x 20mm on the FW, and attack from the flank and above. Never just straight from above, made that mistake too many times...

Flying the Zerstörer with 37mm, 2x 20mm, 2x 7.92mm is also quite immersive and a lot of fun. You can hunt the late Peshkas with their turret like that.

My point is, the armament is there to deal with Peshkas. :)


If you take the 37mm pod, the 20mm are removed FYI.
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#6808 Dakpilot

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 13:44

I was also talking about rear Gunners, UBT and UBK are , UBS is wing/cowling guns. The rate of fire is very similar to German rear gunners belt fed UBT is often faster

 

Turret HMG in Pe-2 is 'wind power' assisted

 

Fact 3: gunners with heavy machine guns and low rate of fire should not get same hit rate as the gunners lighter guns and high rate of fire. No matter what plane or nationality. Especially when firing from bomber making evasive maneuvers.

 

specifically talking about rate of fire in your Fact 3: currently I don't think there is really an issue here

 

no worries

 

Cheers, Dakpilot


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#6809 =FEW=Herne

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 13:49

 I know what their rate of fire are. And I`m talking about rear gunners, not front pointing weapons. I still think that it`s just impossible to shoot with hmg like rear gunners do in this sim. Least what can be done is to restrict the all gunner skill levels to normal or was it average, I don`t remember which it was. Anything above is very unrealistic imo.

 

I disagree, forget realism for a moment and put yourself into the shoes of a ground pounder that goes up against the deadliest level of AA on virtually every sortie he sets out on. What you are proposing is that if the AA doesn't take them down, then these most likely already damaged birds are easy prey to the vultures defending the objectives.

What you are proposing would take pretty much any incentive away for either side to play the objectives.


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#6810 LLv24_Zami

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 13:55

I was also talking about rear Gunners, UBT and UBK are , UBS is wing/cowling guns. The rate of fire is very similar to German rear gunners belt fed UBT is often faster

 

Turret HMG in Pe-2 is 'wind power' assisted

 

 

specifically talking about rate of fire in your Fact 3: currently I don't think there is really an issue here

 

no worries

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

Ub 800-1050, mg15 1000-1050, mg81 1400-1600.  I see a little difference?

 

In my military service, I was trained for the russian NSV hmg. It`s rate of fire is iirc 800 or so. I was standing on the ground with the gun, I think Pe-2 gunners are quite superhuman shooting from jinking and janking plane with the level of accuracy they are doing now  :biggrin:


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#6811 56RAF_Roblex

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 14:06

 I think Pe-2 gunners are quite superhuman shooting from jinking and janking plane with the level of accuracy they are doing now  :biggrin:

 

I would agree that *all* gunners should struggle to hit anything, or even fire, under heavy Gs but why make this a PE-2 issue?   Why should a JU87 be able to take out my engine while spinning down with one wing missing?


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#6812 LLv24_Zami

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 14:25

I would agree that *all* gunners should struggle to hit anything, or even fire, under heavy Gs but why make this a PE-2 issue?   Why should a JU87 be able to take out my engine while spinning down with one wing missing?

Because it`s most obvious with the hmg in the Pe-2s tail. I think the Pe-2 is benefiting mostly for the current situation. I`ve shot down plenty of Stukas offline, can`t remember when my engine died from it. And I still think that gunners with hmgs should get hits a bit less than guys with lmgs.

 

But as I said, it would be best to put all gunners to the normal level, at the most.


I disagree, forget realism for a moment and put yourself into the shoes of a ground pounder that goes up against the deadliest level of AA on virtually every sortie he sets out on. What you are proposing is that if the AA doesn't take them down, then these most likely already damaged birds are easy prey to the vultures defending the objectives.

What you are proposing would take pretty much any incentive away for either side to play the objectives.

First of all, AA should not be on deadliest level. And bombers should be escorted  ;)


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#6813 Carl_infar

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 14:53

The AI gunners on player-flown airplanes are always equivalent to the AI "normal" setting, right? Or is that something that can be customized by the server/mission designer?

I ask because offline I can destroy "Normal" AI Peshkas (who have eyes in the back of their heads) in a 109 without much risk of getting hit. Just have to attack with an energy advantage so that I'm not tailgating him for an extended period.

What am I missing here? Is it different online? I'm usually flying the bombers there...

 

Its no different here.

 

The people who mostly cry about gunners are the ones who sit on bomber tail or come very close within bomber tail  and are amazed that they've been hit...

 

As KRA showed the stats from wol:

 

NAME SORTIES AK PERC
he111 h16 179 44 0,245810055865922
pe2 35 series 910 138 0,151648351648352
he111 h6 1738 89 0,0512082853855006
ju88 2494 381 0,152766639935846
bf 110 e2 3073 303 0,0986007159127888
pe2 87 series 5583 1062 0,190220311660398

 

​The best kill percentage goes to HE111 H16 with top def 13mm gun...

The PE2 ser35 with top 7.62mm shkas has slightly worst % than Ju88....

 

​So anyway in my opinion there's nothing wrong with the gunners, only the people need to change their tactics.

 

​Another thing with pe2 about nobody cries on red side is: - there's no prop feathering and when one engine is out it can barely keep the level flight with max speed below 250 kph and one must continously push the rudder - usually for most players You need just to shut one of its engines and puncture its tank ... 

ME110 on the other hand which takes same amount of bombs (2 x 500kg) when looses one engine can still fly with one at least 300kph, climb and the ball can be brought to the center with rudder trim alone


Edited by Carl_infar, 20 January 2018 - 15:08.

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#6814 7.GShAP/Silas

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 14:57

Ub 800-1050, mg15 1000-1050, mg81 1400-1600.  I see a little difference?

 

In my military service, I was trained for the russian NSV hmg. It`s rate of fire is iirc 800 or so. I was standing on the ground with the gun, I think Pe-2 gunners are quite superhuman shooting from jinking and janking plane with the level of accuracy they are doing now  :biggrin:

 

 

Ever use a ring mounted MG/HMG?  It's as easy as you could hope for.

 

 

Anyway, fighters will always lobby for removal of what they think are their greatest obstacles to shooting down ground attackers.  In this regard they are not much different from most people, except they are by FAR over-represented online and so are the noisiest interest group around.


Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas, 20 January 2018 - 14:57.

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#6815 Wingleader425

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 15:03

Historically the pe-2 was quite effective at defending itself and had an average survivable rate of 30 combat flights according to Russian estimates. "The records of the 16th and 39th BAPs of the Western Front Air Force note that the Pe-2s crews had the greatest success in repelling the attacks of enemy fighters in June and July 1941. On 1 July, for example, six Pe-2s fended off attacks by four Messerschmitt Bf 109s, shooting down two of them. A week later a group of Pe-2s was attacked by four Bf 109 and again brought down two of the attackers. On both occasions the Petlyakovs suffered no losses."

i am by no means a great pilot in taw but in my limited experience flying both sides the pe-2 loses its edge as the blues get access to better and more guns. While the e-7 really will struggle good team play, and well planed out attack paths can help alleviate the effectiveness of the pe-2.   

       


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#6816 LLv24_Zami

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 15:26

Right.. seems kind of pointless to say anything else. Who thinks the gunners are ok, continue to do so.  I disagree politely  :)


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#6817 Man-Yac

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 16:47

I think the overall issue with gunner is some shot they hit when they totally shoud not. When you make a good and fast approach and your engine gets sniped its very frustrating and shouldn't happen so often. But of course players who sit on a bomber 6 should be punished. They should implement a system on which the longer the gunner is able to shoot at you, the better his accuracy gets, and get rid of those snap shots that get your pilot killed on a 700kph approach from a high 4 o clock.


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#6818 DerSheriff

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 16:49

​So anyway in my opinion there's nothing wrong with the gunners
 
You are pretty alone with that opinion
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#6819 56RAF_Roblex

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 17:35

 
You are pretty alone with that opinion

 

Do you mean something wrong with PE-2 gunners or gunners in general?  I am sure in once of your recent videos when you flew VVS you kept getting shot down attacking JU88s etc. and you commented that they were as bad as PE-2s.


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#6820 =LG=Kathon

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 17:44

New TAW campaign starts 20.01.2018 on Sunday evening.

 

 

New features:

  • Registration is obligatory. Note: you can change your pilot’s name, if necessary in “Pilot profile” after logging in. As before you may have one account for Axis and one for Allied side.
  • Support for German language thanks to StG2 team. Please visit http://taw-server.de/ger After registration on German TAW site the briefing and messages during the game will be also in German.
  • Half-support for French language thanks to -IRRE- team. Website is still being translated but if you check French support on English registration form then briefing and messages during the game will be in French.
  • Mission planner was integrated with TAW thanks to 19//curiousGamblerr. Click on the map on the main TAW page to open mission planner in a new tab. Click on a “Tactical Map #” text above the map to open the map in a full screen.
  • Attacker aircraft was added to select on the registration form.
  • More than half 61-K AA was replaced by 72-K
  • Cold engine start.
  • Mission duration 2h +/- 5m
  • Fighters need 25min without any AK/GK to get Combat Mission.
  • If a pilot damages an enemy aircraft which lands later on the ground (outside of the active airfield) then this pilot gets AK.
  • Airfields supply system was changed. Previously when transport aircraft landed or supply convoy arrived the city then airfield was repaired by some % in the next mission (max 30%). Now when transport aircraft lands or supply convoy arrives the city transported supplies (max 30% in one mission) are added on the airfield. After each mission about 10-15% of supplies are taken to repair the airfield by this amount of %. In short: airfield is repair if supplies on it are available. You can check supplies level for each airfield in the mission briefing in game. This solution slows down the repair rate of the airfields.
  • Stalingrad Center map redesigned. No “iron triangle” airfields.
  • Ground AA have lower AI level during overcast.
  • Hidden troops inform about nearby enemy aircraft in range 5km.
  • ‘On ground’ sorties are not shown on sorties list.
  • Assists, max AK/GK/tans streak added to the pilot’s statistics.
  • Shifted coordinates on Kuban map fixed
  • Save/load airfield properties (like close for x missions) after server crash fixed.
  • Combat Missions counter is not set to 0 when pilot has 3/3 CM but hangar is full and no new aircraft is added. In that case it remains 3/3.
  • Intact vehicles in defense position are no longer generate as destroyed. There was a bug where sometimes it happened.

 

 

Plane set:

planeset_taw12.jpg

 

* LaGG-3 VYa23 limitation depends on depot destruction.

* Sh37 is limited for the IL-2 AM-38 ’42. Limitation depends on depot destruction.
* SC1000 is limited for the He 111 H-6. It’s not available on frontline airfields and limitation depends on depot destruction.

 

 

Notes:

  • Sometimes there no info about end of the sortie in log files so the results will not be visible on the sortie list. When you start new sortie then the previous one will be updated and available. After mission all not updated sorties are also updated.
  • The slot reservation system was created for StG2 and =LG=  admins. The StG2 team rents the hardware server and they usually fly in a large group on Mondays. During the peak hours it was not possible for them to join the server in large group. The =LG= team don’t fly in a large group but sometimes we want to test something. If you are kicked out of the server after joining it means that there are no free slots left.  I will add info on the main page when server is full.
  • There are other changes and updates planned on the web page but they will be done later during the campaign. The manual and rules is not updated at the moment.

 

 

Registration is open!

 

Good luck!


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#6821 Man-Yac

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 17:51

Awsome! the 20/01/2018 is saterday evening, so taw is up today? Or did you mean the 21?


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#6822 19//curiousGamblerr

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 18:03

Change list looks sweet Kathon, can't wait!

 

Here is a video I made a while back that quickly shows off the sharing feature of il2missionplanner, for folks that don't know about it. Video says its beta but it's outdated, the feature has existed for a while.

 


Edited by 19//curiousGamblerr, 20 January 2018 - 18:45.

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#6823 22GCT_PlaN

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 18:17

Just out of curiosity, what will happen if at the end of the month will be released version 3.0?


Edited by 22GCT_PlaN, 20 January 2018 - 18:17.

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#6824 RedEye_Tumu

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 18:18

I think we no have any problem Plan, an will be very happy  :)

 

Thx LG

 

War starts again.


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#6825 Operation_Ivy

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 18:19

Did anyone even request cold start?  :huh:


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#6826 Cpt_Siddy

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 18:27

Awww yiss, p-40 sexy tiem 


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#6827 SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 18:37

If you take the 37mm pod, the 20mm are removed FYI.


Hahaha I never noticed. There was just too much powaaaa :D

Change list looks sweet Kathon, can't wait!

Here is a video I made a while back that quickly shows off the sharing feature of il2missionplanner, for folks that don't know about it.


Very cool, thanks for that!
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#6828 SCG_Riksen

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 18:42

Love the cold start thing :) Nice changes Kathon!
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#6829 Inkoslav

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 18:45

Will be interesting to try cold starts, although I'm afraid it'll scare away players since there are no instructions anywhere at all for how to do them (what RPM and engine power should be used for each specific plane).

 

The planeset looks pretty nice, although I'd appreciate if the Russians get the La-5/La-5F and/or the ordinary Yak-1 on map 7 too. Maybe map 8. The available planeset for people not owning premium planes is bad as it is, so at least add the La-5 which more people have than the amount having the La-5FN or the Yak which all BOS owners have.


Edited by Inkoslav, 20 January 2018 - 19:05.

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#6830 DerSheriff

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 18:48

Do you mean something wrong with PE-2 gunners or gunners in general?  I am sure in once of your recent videos when you flew VVS you kept getting shot down attacking JU88s etc. and you commented that they were as bad as PE-2s.

In general. There is no difference for different aircraft. Only calibre. And there the Pe2 wins.


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#6831 Carl_infar

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 18:55

Superb planeset! 

thank You very much!


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#6832 DerSheriff

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 19:24

The "Forum" Button on the webpage is still linking to a old campaign post. 


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#6833 NN_Elanion

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 19:37

THX :) 


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#6834 19//Rekt

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 19:39

Will be interesting to try cold starts, although I'm afraid it'll scare away players since there are no instructions anywhere at all for how to do them (what RPM and engine power should be used for each specific plane).
 


Don't we just hit "E" and wait for the engine to warm up?
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#6835 Inkoslav

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 19:42

Don't we just hit "E" and wait for the engine to warm up?

 

Assuming you keep all the radiator/cowling shutters fully closed (at least in cold weather) that works, but it'll take a hell of a lot of time. You need to ramp up the manifold pressure and engine RPM to warm up the engine faster until you are approaching the allowed minimum temperatures if you want to avoid possible engine damage (i.e. at least get you past the "cold engine" warning), but too high too early and the warm-up itself may cause some damage.

Damage to engine failure is extremely unlikely unless you use full RPM and power on a very cold engine, but the damage ought to reduce the life-time of an engine that gets damaged in other ways.


Edited by Inkoslav, 20 January 2018 - 19:46.

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#6836 Cpt_Siddy

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 20:02

As far as i know, the engine settings will be the start settings until you touch the controls. 

 

So press E, wait till the oil temps climb to nominal (75-90 C) and then go do your business. 


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#6837 Inkoslav

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 20:09

So press E, wait till the oil temps climb to nominal (75-90 C) and then go do your business.

 

The engine settings will NOT be the warm-up settings. At least not for all planes, even though it might be for some. And nominal temperatures are only required for roleplaying purposes. For take-off you just need to avoid minus-temperatures on the engine combined with high power. Once out of the "cold engine" warning you can use fairly high power without worry of engine damage.


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Goes by Inkoslav and/or Inkompetent.


#6838 -IRRE-Biluf

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 20:13

Nice, thanks !
Same map rotation as before ?

#1 Moscow_North
#2 Moscow_South
#3 Stalingrad_Center
#4 Kuban
#5 Moscow_North
#6 Stalingrad_Center
#7 Stalingrad_South
#8 Kuban
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#6839 Cpt_Siddy

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 20:17

The engine settings will NOT be the warm-up settings. At least not for all planes, even though it might be for some. And nominal temperatures are only required for roleplaying purposes. For take-off you just need to avoid minus-temperatures on the engine combined with high power. Once out of the "cold engine" warning you can use fairly high power without worry of engine damage.

 

 

Is there some ingame tests somewhere on this matter?

 

This issue might beget a lot of frustration going around on cold maps  :biggrin:


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#6840 Inkoslav

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 20:19

Not that I'm aware of, so I recommend some in-game experimation. Enable cold starts in the difficulty settings and make some tests in custom battles.


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Goes by Inkoslav and/or Inkompetent.





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