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that it starts soon please that my pilots are getting desperate they need competition thanks LG for keeping alive the spirit of competition for squads :biggrin: 

+1 :lol:

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Thank you for the new TAE edition.

Maybe you can put the MC202 with out gunpods, stukas with out 37 cannon, on the first maps and give us the 20mm cannon on the i16.


 

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Maybe you can put the MC202 with out gunpods, stukas with out 37 cannon, on the first maps and give us the 20mm cannon on the i16.

LOL?

 

I am going to play this time the red side and it is just so funny to read something like this one. I propose to get the german only Ju52 in this case.

 

Can you explain..why Ju87 without 37mm? Did you try to kill the tanks on the red side..? You can kill 7 T IV EASILY with Pe2 35 series (If you are a good one, maybe 10 tanks). Ok, with good weather... But can you kill 7 T34 with 87 with the same weather (for sure no, max you can kill 6 T34 but usually 4..5)?

 

So, 10 max and 6 max. Easy to compare, isn't it?

 

One more question to =LG=. Did you change the blue tank column? It should be ONLY tank T IV there, no T III, no t38 or some sh*t like that.

Edited by Kra
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If I want to play TAW do I have to register before it starts and play from start to finish or can I drop in later?

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If I want to play TAW do I have to register before it starts and play from start to finish or can I drop in later?

You can drop in later.

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 the thing is a pair of forces.... on one side we have the historical accuracy in  the other side have the ballance... For me first option is better.

 

 

 

I agree whit neca, the question is not how many tanks can u kill " easy " flying a P2 , il2 or Ju88 . the question need be, how many mc202 or ju87 fly whit gunpods or how many I-16 dont have 20mm, or how many Lagg3 really mount 23mm , how many 1 tn bombs was dropped over stalingrad....  

 

I know any aproximation to problem  cant will be ideal. But i preffer this way.

 

About tank columns.... why have to change? the objective is pe2 cant kill this amount of tanks? no have historical data about composition of columns?? all ground forces was panzer iV ?? . I dont like this kind of things... i we start to balance on this way,,,, we never end.  But the point more significative for me is the next point... this is not a strategical game where u order actions and wait results.... here are virtual pilots flying... and they have the oportunity of do they job.  One team no want some column be "easy" killed by lonly pe2?? then go to column and do a good cover.  I preffer avoid solutions via unhistorical settings to apply solutions via  player actions.

 

Maybe at the end, the best solution will be a middle point betwen historicity and ballance. But last way is hard to justify and first point have suport of history* 

( allways writted by war winner )

 

 

 

Is my opinion.

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about columns....  will be very nice if on future, tanks columns can be representated on the game in other situations. No allways stationated along road.. some times can be stationated on a town,  or a field... under trees... and in other cases can be on moviment... along the field or runways.  Im sure, this kinds of objectives, have more difficult to be killed and not need change column configuration.

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About tank columns.... why have to change? the objective is pe2 cant kill this amount of tanks? no have historical data about composition of columns?? all ground forces was panzer iV ?? . I dont like this kind of things... i we start to balance on this way,,,, we never end.  But the point more significative for me is the next point... this is not a strategical game where u order actions and wait results.... here are virtual pilots flying... and they have the oportunity of do they job.  One team no want some column be "easy" killed by lonly pe2?? then go to column and do a good cover.  I preffer avoid solutions via unhistorical settings to apply solutions via  player actions.

 

The answer is easy. How many Pe2 do you need to kill 16 tanks? (50% TiV and 50% T III? Only 2.

                                 How many IL2 do you need to kill 16 tanks? (50% TiV and 50% T III? Only 2.

                                 How many 110 do you need to kill 16 tanks? (50% T34 and 50% T60, BT7)? 3..5?

                                 How many Ju87 (37mm) do you need to kill 16 tanks? (50% T34 and 50% T60, BT7I? 3..4? and it is not so easy as with IL2 or Pe2. Just believe me. The bombs are all the time better.

                                 How many Ju88 do you need to kill 16 tanks? (50% T34 and 50% T60, BT7I? 2. and it is not so easy as with IL2 or Pe2. Just believe me. 

 

As you can see it is not balanced here properly and as a player that want to play fair on the red side i see only one way: balance it.

 

And you said...if you do not want to make it easy...just do a good cover. OK, than the red column should be reduced for 35% (seems 12 tanks or 11). And if you do not like that the blue team will destroy it easily, just do a good cover.

Edited by Kra

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Can you explain..why Ju87 without 37mm? Did you try to kill the tanks on the red side..? You can kill 7 T IV EASILY with Pe2 35 series (If you are a good one, maybe 10 tanks).

 

I consider myself a very good Pe-2 pilot and I've never had more than 6 tank kills with it (10x 100kg bombs), and that was lucky enough. Wonder what kind of super pilot you are to kill 7 Tanks easily in this plane.

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I thought that vs tanks Il2 is better? BTW there was video of one guy with unlimited ammo destroyed like line of hundred tanks with cannon, just one pass kill from from left then right - wow!

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I consider myself a very good Pe-2 pilot and I've never had more than 6 tank kills with it (10x 100kg bombs), and that was lucky enough. Wonder what kind of super pilot you are to kill 7 Tanks easily in this plane.

 

 

 

You can kill 7 T IV EASILY with Pe2 35 series (If you are a good one, maybe 10 tanks).

 

 

 

How many Pe2 do you need to kill 16 tanks? (50% TiV and 50% T III? Only 2.
 

 

Yes Kra,   Show us the video (no editing) .  Apparently it is *easy* so you can do it first try and it wont take you long to come back with the video proof of 7 or more tanks being destroyed by a PE2 in battle conditions.  Better still,  get a friend to help you with this easy task and destroy 16 randomly arranged tanks.

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex
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I consider myself a very good Pe-2 pilot and I've never had more than 6 tank kills with it (10x 100kg bombs), and that was lucky enough. Wonder what kind of super pilot you are to kill 7 Tanks easily in this plane.

 

Unfortunately I did not try it on TAW (was on the blue side last campaign),

only on the 72AG training server last night. But the result is stable, with the good weather it should be not a problem to get the same one on the TAW server.

 

For sure you can say that the real situation is not the same. TRUE. But if it will reduce the kills on the Pe2, it will reduce the kills on Ju87, Ju88, Bf110 also.

 

Last campaign i destoryed more than 100 red tanks (i am a fighter in general) and my position is in Top 30 ground targets and TOP 30 air targets. I hope it is enough to show that i can compare the dificalty on the german side with the red one. Right?

I thought that vs tanks Il2 is better? BTW there was video of one guy with unlimited ammo destroyed like line of hundred tanks with cannon, just one pass kill from from left then right - wow!

 

Depends. I prefere Pe2. Only 10 attack and will fly home.

Edited by Kra

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Yes Kra,   Show us the video (no editing) .  Apparently it is *easy* so you can do it first try and it wont take you long to come back with the video proof of 7 or more tanks being destroyed by a PE2 in battle conditions.  Better still,  get a friend to help you with this easy task and destroy 16 randomly arranged tanks.

 

 

You can try it yourself on 72AG server. There is the point "Poligon" where you can start your Pe2 in the air and 5x T IV just in 3 km radious. Do not forget to load 10x100. To be honest was a big surprise for me how easy it is. I tried before only 4x250 vs tanks on WOL server and it works perfect, but 10x100 just do it better:)

 

 

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/ru/sortie/log/2352623/?tour=27

Edited by Kra

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You can try it yourself on 72AG server. There is the point "Poligon" where you can start your Pe2 in the air and 5x T IV just in 3 km radious. Do not forget to load 10x100. To be honest was a big surprise for me how easy it is. I tried before only 4x250 vs tanks on WOL server and it works perfect, but 10x100 just do it better:)

 

 

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/ru/sortie/log/2352623/?tour=27

 

On the stats you post the damages needed for the destruction of the tanks are 65% max, and you destroyed 4 of them.

Also I'd like you to consider how many tanks you could possibly destroy with 44x50kg bombs on Ju88 ;) Personally didn't have a problem with the early planesets though.

Edited by 216th_Jordan

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On the stats you post the damages needed for the destruction of the tanks are 65% max, and you destroyed 4 of them.

Also I'd like you to consider how many tanks you could possibly destroy with 44x50kg bombs on Ju88 ;) Personally didn't have a problem with the early planesets though.

 

Is it in general a difference if you hit directly the 0% damaged tank and 50% damaged tank? I don't think so.

 

And ? How many tanks did you kill with 44x50? ... I prefere 4x500 and 18x50, don't like to stay over the target more than 10 minutes. And the last time it was something like 12 tanks in one sorty. But for that you need really a LOT of time. As I said before, it is just pain if you want compare it with Pe2.

Edited by Kra

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The answer is easy. How many Pe2 do you need to kill 16 tanks? (50% TiV and 50% T III? Only 2.

                                 How many IL2 do you need to kill 16 tanks? (50% TiV and 50% T III? Only 2.

                                 How many 110 do you need to kill 16 tanks? (50% T34 and 50% T60, BT7)? 3..5?

                                 How many Ju87 (37mm) do you need to kill 16 tanks? (50% T34 and 50% T60, BT7I? 3..4? and it is not so easy as with IL2 or Pe2. Just believe me. The bombs are all the time better.

                                 How many Ju88 do you need to kill 16 tanks? (50% T34 and 50% T60, BT7I? 2. and it is not so easy as with IL2 or Pe2. Just believe me. 

 

As you can see it is not balanced here properly and as a player that want to play fair on the red side i see only one way: balance it.

 

And you said...if you do not want to make it easy...just do a good cover. OK, than the red column should be reduced for 35% (seems 12 tanks or 11). And if you do not like that the blue team will destroy it easily, just do a good cover.

Kra with all respect, looks like you never fly a Pe2 over a column tank on TAW, impossible to kill 16 tanks with to 2 Pes.

The il2 is the best option to kill tanks and in the first map they dont have 23mm cannon.

That is the reason about my point, give us the 23mm on IL2 and the 20mm on i16, Im just looking for a good balance, not trying to disrespect anybody or point on a name.

Regards,

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Thank you for the new TAE edition. Maybe you can put the MC202 with out gunpods, stukas with out 37 cannon, on the first maps and give us the 20mm cannon on the i16.
 

 

While you are at it, lets ban 23mm alltogether on all aircrafts....

 

 

 

 

 

 

:rolleyes:

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Kra with all respect, looks like you never fly a Pe2 over a column tank on TAW, impossible to kill 16 tanks with to 2 Pes.

The il2 is the best option to kill tanks and in the first map they dont have 23mm cannon.

That is the reason about my point, give us the 23mm on IL2 and the 20mm on i16, Im just looking for a good balance, not trying to disrespect anybody or point on a name.

Regards,

 

We will see. I see it different. 8 tanks with one sorty, right..?

 

Again, for what reason do you need 2x 23mm if you  can kill the tanks easily with Pe2? To make some fighter sorties, right? It is not fair.

Edited by Kra

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Again, for what reason do you need 2x 23mm if you  can kill the tanks easily with Pe2? To make some fighter sorties, right? It is not fair.

 

You can't, not on TAW. usually you're happy if you hit 1-3 tanks in a Pe-2, 4 is a wet dream. (best I got was 6 in last rotation) You fly red this time, please try it, you will certainly have my applause If you can do better consistently.

 

While you are at it, lets ban 23mm alltogether on all aircrafts....

 

:rolleyes:

 

Il-2s standard armament: 23mm.

Edited by 216th_Jordan
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Hey Kra

Maybe you never saw a Ju88 raining bombs on a red tank column.

I think you are never fly one TAW and you are talking with out any field experience.

No more comments.

I made my point for the admins not to you. 

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Il-2s standard armament: 23mm.

Not in the early planes available during Barbarossa. During the first 6+ months of the war the IL-2's did not have 23mm. It only really started becoming prevalent in 1942.

 

I've said before that the ridiculously large German bombs should be banned from TAW (I would even ban the SC1000), as they were essentially special ordered. The 37mm has no place on a Stuka on the early maps - neither does the VYa on IL-2's or anything else. MG151/20 also shouldn't be available to Macchis during this period either. But hey, we've been told by admins that their objective in TAW isn't realism, or balance for the sake of balance. It's supposed to be a "challenge". 

 

 

Hey Kra

Maybe you never saw a Ju88 raining bombs on a red tank column.

I think you are never fly one TAW and you are talking with out any field experience.

No more comments.

I made my point for the admins not to you. 

Now ask yourself Neca ;) how come this tactic with the Ju-88 is really the best and most efficient way to kill Russian tanks? Ju-88's were never  used like this during the war, but in TAW we're forced to do it this way. Is it something with the tanks or AA that forces one side to act in an unrealistic way? Who knows. (Sarcasm)

 

PS. The Ju-88 was the most common bomber in the KGs during Barbarossa. Yet it's not been included in map 1 for a while now. (Unless that changes with the upcoming campaign).

Edited by StG77_Kondor
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Hey Kra

Maybe you never saw a Ju88 raining bombs on a red tank column.

I think you are never fly one TAW and you are talking with out any field experience.

No more comments.

I made my point for the admins not to you. 

 

As I said before i am in TOP 20 for the fighters last campaign and TOP 30 for the bombers. Do you think i lost something how the blue team plays?

 

You will see these 7..8 tanks (Pe2 35 series) in one sorty soon. It is...as i said before ... EASY.

Edited by Kra

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Not in the early planes available during Barbarossa. During the first 6+ months of the war the IL-2's did not have 23mm. It only really started becoming prevalent in 1942.

 

I've said before that the ridiculously large German bombs should be banned from TAW (I would even ban the SC1000), as they were essentially special ordered. The 37mm has no place on a Stuka on the early maps - neither does the VYa on IL-2's or anything else. MG151/20 also shouldn't be available to Macchis during this period either. But hey, we've been told by admins that their objective in TAW isn't realism, or balance for the sake of balance. It's supposed to be a "challenge". 

 

 

Now ask yourself Neca ;) how come this tactic with the Ju-88 is really the best and most efficient way to kill Russian tanks? Ju-88's were never  used like this during the war, but in TAW we're forced to do it this way. Is it something with the tanks or AA that forces one side to act in an unrealistic way? Who knows. (Sarcasm)

 

PS. The Ju-88 was the most common bomber in the KGs during Barbarossa. Yet it's not been included in map 1 for a while now. (Unless that changes with the upcoming campaign).

 

+1

 

 

I guess some people only see what they want to see.

 

 

@topic: its much much easier to blow up tanks with 100kg bombs compared to the 50 ones. Considering the try hard loadout for IL2's are 23mm + 6 100kg bombs, and the Pe2 can carry 10 of those, losing the 23mm but gaining the psychic gunners I dont see how it cant do it. Even more so if you consider that reds have the 37mm which starts to shoot at incoming attackers at almost 3km out, while the germans have to make do with the 20mm which dont shoot past 2km.... so yeah... I also think the reds have an easier time on the ground attack, at least when it goes for tank columns attacks.

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Hey Kondor, I refer about the Ju88 because of your uploaded videos, you are a killing machine with that plane.

Back to the point is impossible to made a war historical correct at this point of development, you need a balance one, that is what I looking for.

 

Staiger about your comment normally red pilots like me never wrote anything about unbalance. I put my point of view that`s it. If you look back, most changes on TAW, from the beginning were made to improve balance for blue side(admins think that is the correct and I respect that) not problem at all.

We still flying and winning by the way.

 

Regards.

Necathor

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:)

 

 

 

We need taw soon... we are bored and starting never end debates.

 

 

 

I agree, flying red is more easy destroy enemy tanks, this isnt the point for me. The point is... because for reds is more easy kill tanks... please increase AAA ,change tank columns configuration and forbide some weapons, we need balance.... but if apply the same rule...  blues have more easy on air... especaily flying over 3000 mts....  whats is the solution then ??

 

What is more easy for one side and for the other? How much more easy? where is the standad level of dificult?

 

Maybe some balance allways is needed, but i repeat, best way is try apply historicity on weapons and aircrafts. Whit this tools the players have to do the best. 

 

Except some super aces, most of pilots here ( included me ) have a lot to improve for win maps, do a good cover , do a good defence position, etc, 

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I think the current set of what both the reds and blues have available is fair. The most important factor is not who has access to what, but who has the best teamwork and balance between attackers and fighters.  

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[...] Considering the try hard loadout for IL2's are 23mm + 6 100kg bombs, and the Pe2 can carry 10 of those, losing the 23mm but gaining the psychic gunners I dont see how it cant do it. Even more so if you consider that reds have the 37mm which starts to shoot at incoming attackers at almost 3km out, while the germans have to make do with the 20mm which dont shoot past 2km.... so yeah... I also think the reds have an easier time on the ground attack, at least when it goes for tank columns attacks.

 

Really, dude?  Your new tactic is just to belittle VVS pilots into not killing the columns as fast as possible?

 

You sure are an expert on VVS planes... I assume you'll be flying them in TAW to prove your own points?

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+1

 

 

I guess some people only see what they want to see.

 

 

@topic: its much much easier to blow up tanks with 100kg bombs compared to the 50 ones. Considering the try hard loadout for IL2's are 23mm + 6 100kg bombs, and the Pe2 can carry 10 of those, losing the 23mm but gaining the psychic gunners I dont see how it cant do it. Even more so if you consider that reds have the 37mm which starts to shoot at incoming attackers at almost 3km out, while the germans have to make do with the 20mm which dont shoot past 2km.... so yeah... I also think the reds have an easier time on the ground attack, at least when it goes for tank columns attacks.

 

Shouldn't your faster, higher flying, fighters be more than enough to compensate for the supposed lack of ground based AA ability? One would think that a fighter capable of engaging and disengaging at will with anything on the field at this point, would be able to cover the area outside the umbrella of protection the ground based guns provide. Or do you lack the requisite skill to intercept the IL-2 with it's blazing 400 kph speed and maneuverability of a slightly beached whale? And why should Red pilots forsake the best tool for the job? I suppose you always take out the least powerful 109 you can get your hands on, right? If you really want to make the argument that the IL-2 should be limited because the Blues can't keep up, fine. But if you do it might not be long before you start seeing arguments against allowing 190s and 109-G's: their Red counterparts just can't keep up.

 

And do you people ever get tired of banging on about the gunners in PE-2's? You do know that the code for the PE-2 gunners is the same for every other gunner in the game, right? But, no, it is always the PE-2 gunners that are the problem.

Edited by Disarray
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And do you people ever get tired of banging on about the gunners in PE-2's? You do know that the code for the PE-2 gunners is the same for every other gunner in the game, right? But, no, it is always the PE-2 gunners that are the problem.

 

Actually I believe there is something going on with the Pe-2 w/respect to the AI gunner.  We flew German last round of TAW (Russian the round before that, and this coming round as well), and a squaddie and I were both victims of the boom and zoom pass from the Pe-2's high six where you pull up above the nose and are instantly shredded.  I think Meow Scharfi had a video on YT as well showing this.

 

Since I'll be flying Russian, I guess I shouldn't complain about it, as I'll benefit (LOL) but seems something is off - especially since the top/rear gunner can't traverse the gun to the forward/high position! :).

 

Not sure if the dev's have acknowledged this issue or not.

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German gunners make that kind of shot too. I've been tagged by those shots coming from a 110, an 88, and a 111; hell even an 87 has tagged me a few times with those shots. I've been put down by single hits from German gunners, after a while. The only difference is the PE-2 gunner is shooting 12 mm while the Germans all shoot 7 mm rounds. You might be able to shrug off 7 mm rounds, unless they hit something vital like the pilot or the oil cooler, when a 12 mm round hits you it can be lights out. That doesn't make it unfair though. It makes it different.

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+1

 

 

I guess some people only see what they want to see.

 

 

@topic: its much much easier to blow up tanks with 100kg bombs compared to the 50 ones. Considering the try hard loadout for IL2's are 23mm + 6 100kg bombs, and the Pe2 can carry 10 of those, losing the 23mm but gaining the psychic gunners I dont see how it cant do it. Even more so if you consider that reds have the 37mm which starts to shoot at incoming attackers at almost 3km out, while the germans have to make do with the 20mm which dont shoot past 2km.... so yeah... I also think the reds have an easier time on the ground attack, at least when it goes for tank columns attacks.

 

I'm sorry but the russian columns don't have 37mm gun. The guns defending the columns are ZIS-5 72k 25mm ones as per LG statement from december - the only truck mounted russian guns in game.

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All gunners are a bit OP in my opinion. It shows clearly with the Pe-2, where larger caliber makes hits very deadly. As said German gunners hit targets equally but their rounds are less effective. And I think it should be a bit harder to hit targets with hmg with low rate of fire than lmg with high rate of fire. Atm their accuracy is pretty much the same.

 

Gunners shoot with great accuracy despite hard evasive maneuvers done by bomber, and the fighter at the same time. We've seen impossible shots in videos which just can't be done irl.

 

But it's very hard to make AI gunners that are just right in every situation, don't hit too much or don't miss too much. If it's possible, I would limit AI gunner skills in bombers to normal at maximum atm. Don't know how the skill level is determined with player controlled planes.

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Gunner hits also depend on Netcode, I've been hit in ways I never have in SP, but thats another thing.

 

Flying german this time...feels weird already :biggrin:

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Gunner hits also depend on Netcode, I've been hit in ways I never have in SP, but thats another thing.

 

Flying german this time...feels weird already :biggrin:

Yes netcode does weird things sometimes but I've witnessed impossible shots also in SP many times.

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Agreed, but I have to say that flying against bombers offline is so much more fun than it was before they linked gunner skill to the pilot skill in the QMB. Now on "Normal" you get punished for tailgating but there are way fewer miracle shots!

Yes, normal level is quite all right. Would be even better if they locked all gunners to normal regardless of pilot skill.

 

But how does it work in mp? Are all gunners ace or is it configurable by the server admins?

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I flew a ton of German bomber missions in the last couple TAW campaigns and I could probably count on my hand how many times my gunners shot down an intercepting fighter. It happened so rare, despite my gunners often blazing away until their ammo was gone, that pretty much remember each time because of my surprise.

 

I’ve been shot down by PE2 gunners probably in the triple digits on TAW. If gunner skill levels are changed to normal for both sides, I guess that would be fine with me. It’s not like German gunners do a heck of a lot even on Ace.

 

To those that say “but German gunners make impossible shots, too, it’s happened to me”, go fly 100+ consecutive sorties in a He-111, Ju-88, or even 110. Then come talk. If you’re saying that, your data set is clearly limited.

Edited by HenHawk
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This weekend?

 

Any chance the new aircraft can make an entrance mid campaign? If they release during that is?

=LG=Leutnant_Artur-Last Wednesday at 5:08 PM
 
planeset is updated including all Kuban planes + g6 and La5FN
 

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I’ve been shot down by PE2 gunners probably in the triple digits on TAW. If gunner skill levels are changed to normal for both sides, I guess that would be fine with me. It’s not like German gunners do a heck of a lot even on Ace.

 

To those that say “but German gunners make impossible shots, too, it’s happened to me”, go fly 100+ consecutive sorties in a He-111, Ju-88, or even 110. Then come talk. If you’re saying that, your data set is clearly limited.

 

The only statistic can show the real situation. I can only say that on the WOL server 35% of the Pe2 35 series flew home (for the maps 1941) and 41% Pe2 87series flew home (without a turrel for the maps 1941).

 

As you can see, 12 mm makes a big difference.

 

P.S. 35% and 41% for the all missions in dec-2017 for the status "landed".

Edited by Kra

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