Game version 1.004 discussion

[LukeFF]

mate if you want to see this sim grows and success, cutting out the tracking methods it something that should concerns you pretty much,

as now many many players are out of the game for who knows how many time.

 

Then you need to explain to Naturalpoint why infringing on their IP is a good idea. 

[-315-vonKuste]

Dear Devs mix more and BoS will be another CloD who did not work out.

I hope you do something with this freetrack. It is a pity to invest in this title for the moment ....

Gentlemen think! On the strength of próbujeci push another product I do not want (TrackIR) is enough for me that my work Freetrack work until you aktualizowaliście.

Forgive the English, in Russian, too, am weak.

[SAG]

Ok thanks guys ill look into opentrack now! :D S!

[chris455]

 

Many of us (including myself) don't want to waste the time trying to build a head-tracking device that may or may not be better than TrackIR, and (speaking for myself) the price NaturalPoint charges is fine by me.

+1

[39bn_pavig]

Enough of the conspiracy theories about TrackIR. Naturalpoint have always been a little bit opaque because they are protecting their intellectual property, and sitting on some patents in the head tracking area. Due to this they're the only major solution on the market, and like Microsoft with office, proprietary and not entirely documented. Software makers have had to either work with Naturalpoint via their SDK or go grey market and reverse engineer their protocols. This is very common in the 6DOF area and dealing with 3DConnexion is pretty similar.

 

Opensource head tracking solutions have had to reverse engineer Naturalpoint protocols and trick the OS into seeing a TrackIR in order to work. Opentrack protocols were developed to get around this, but require developers to build in compatibility, but most build first against the Naturalpoint SDK because there aren't any/many established opentrack compatible trackers on the market, and no legacy software will support it... So for now opentrack protocol is only viable for hobbyists and specialist projects. Instead developers go where the money is and build for Naturalpoint, where they are ensured consumers can actually buy a product off the shelf to use it.

 

TrackIR protocol changes from time to time, and so does their SDK for building into applications, so like most software, you better update from time to time or newer application builds may not be compatible with your hardware.

 

Freetrack is (as far as I know) largely a dead project, which tricked the OS into seeing a TrackIR, but didn't keep up with protocol changes so only works with old games that expect older hardware. Opentrack was branched off freetrack and is in active development, so has kept up largely with Naturalpoint in compatibility, and is actively working towards having open protocols for 6DOF controllers implemented so we have less headaches in the future.

 

So, no conspiracy. Just the software development compatibility issues that arise from time to time us windows users know and love. (I could argue all day about how it shouldn't be this way and could be done better but that is what us software developers always say, and why business people think we are peacenik hippies with no acumen. )

[=LD=Hethwill]

Before i bought TIR I used face track no ir with only face recognition. Never ever had any issues in any game. Always had to tinker with it to make it work, wasn't easy sometimes but never ever failed me. 

 

TIR = supported by software developers

 

FreeTrack and FaceTrack are not supported directly by software developers as it uses part of TIR to work.

Yes, that's one thing you might be forgetting is that you need the TIR dll's for the open trackers to work...

 

... so, if the TIR runtime changes at a low level possibilities are something will get problems.

 

Open trackers are not out of the box solutions. You need to know what you are doing and how to do it to make it work. Sometimes updates happen on the TIR side and something ceases to work on some folks... Plus Freetrack and facetrack open devs have long since joined OculusVR teams to work in their project, so GL with having consistent updates.

Edited November 11, 2014 by =LD=Hethwill_Khan

[avlSteve]

Please update your TrackIR software and profiles.

 

Be sure that you have TrackIR stock profile in the list of your TrackIR tool.

 

It tells me my software is up to date (5.2.200) and that my aircraft list is up to date, but I don't see IL2 BOS, if that's what you mean by "stock profile".

 

It's not causing me any issues (using a custom profile, exclusive).

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

Does it have 6DOF??-he asked with hope on his eyes

It sure does.... Its smoother too and the interface setup of curves is far better because the curve screens are bigger so you have better control over your curves.... its hard to explain but it just worked so much better. I use a delanclip and pointrack with opentrack.

[Scarecrow]

My Track Ir 3 worked fine but has been updated since 5.22 came out years ago. The menu "welding noise" could be done with being repeated less often, maybe throw in some voice actors talking/laughing etc.

 

From what I understand TrackIr is prohibitively expensive in some area's of the world and that is why folks have had to resort to "IP infringement". Good luck to the Opentrack people

[System87]

First they have problems with more then 30 players online and still no multiplayer missions like CLoD has. But i say to myself it will come with time and i keep playing the game. I even tought buying the FW190 and LA5. BUT now that they cut Freetrack out of the game i WILL NOT PLAY ANYMORE!!

Edited November 11, 2014 by System87

[III./JG5_liweidavid2006]

I CAN NOT USE MY freetrack in BOS too, it is a bug or BOS will not support freetrack after this update?

Edited November 11, 2014 by liweidavid2006

[LAL_Luny]

I just had a new bug with new version :

 

We were 3 to test out : no way to start the engine on the LA5 (E command), maybe linked to the new commands assigned to it ?

 

We tried both with the engine off (parked start) and on runway start by putting engine off then on again. No way : the electrical part  seems to have disappeared from the start procedure (magnetos...).

 

Any idea ?

Edited November 11, 2014 by FZG_Luny

[39bn_pavig]

BoS is not the first game to break using Freetrack. Move over to Opentrack which is in more active development and more up to date.

[=[V]P=Grunf]

I was using FaceTrackNoIR and suddenly from this patch on, it is not working anymore! If this should stay like this, this game is dead for me.

[=LD=Hethwill]

First they have problems with more then 30 players online and still no multiplayer missions like CLoD has. But i say to myself it will come with time and i keep playing the game. I even tought buying the FW190 and LA5. BUT now that they cut Freetrack out of the game i WILL NOT PLAY ANYMORE!!

 

Did you even try the custom mission servers !?!? with different objectives ? with airfields in dire need of defense ? with air bridges trying to supply the encirclement ? Dou you even try to squad up with someone and TRY to do the missions available and explained in the briefings in those servers !? 

 

No idea what you talk about "no multiplayer missions like... "... or maybe you just like BIG map dogfight servers that give you an idea that actually the missions are important but nonetheless is just a massive dogfight map ?

 

So far the Dserver and FMB testers doing very good giving us some variety.

[Zak]

Dear pilots,

I'll try to explain to you why Freetrack and similar software is no longer working correctly in BOS. But first of all let me admit that our studio never did anything particularly targeted at limiting your freedom to use original and handmade devices for simming.

Okay, here's the gist:

1) Update 1.004 contains the native TrackIR profile. Natural Point company enabled the IL2BOS profile on their side and added the corresponding compatibility. By the way do not forget to update your NP software and the list of profiles;
2) Freetrack being an unlicensed piece of software is in fact using the API produced by Natural Point. At the same time Freetrack has not added its native profile for BOS. So, in order to have it working correctly the developer of this device/software needs to add an adequate profile for our game and inform us about it;
3) We are obliged to add Natural Point profile as soon as we're using the API of TrackIR;
4) Unfortunatelly, we don't know how to get in touch with the developer of Freetrack and tell them that we could use a Freetrack profile for BOS. We have no information about the company authorized to produce this device/software and provide customer support for it. We are open for conversation and we are ready to discuss adding compatibility of massively and officially used simming devices.

[Solmyr]

Since the v1.004, all my campaign landings are considered as emergency ones, even if it seems to keep all my points (not devided) :

 

 

Bug_results_screen.bmp

[Blitzen]

I missed something:how have radio commands changed? When I go to settings they look more or less the same.Do they work now? Are they easier to access? Help me a little,please?

[Mugwump]

OK, but how do I load my BOS profile in TrackIR without having to resort to clicking the "exclusive" profile?  My game list is up to date yet I don't see BOS listed anywhere.  I had my BOS profile loaded up in the ROF slot in the TrackIR games list.  My BOS TrackIR profile longer loads when I start BOS.

[System87]

Did you even try the custom mission servers !?!? with different objectives ? with airfields in dire need of defense ? with air bridges trying to supply the encirclement ? Dou you even try to squad up with someone and TRY to do the missions available and explained in the briefings in those servers !? 

 

No idea what you talk about "no multiplayer missions like... "... or maybe you just like BIG map dogfight servers that give you an idea that actually the missions are important but nonetheless is just a massive dogfight map ?

 

So far the Dserver and FMB testers doing very good giving us some variety.

 

Ok lets say all of those things are good as you say, you still cant deny the fact that 30 players multy is just rubbish. CLOD a broken game now a few years old can handle 100 players + lots of AI, why cant BoS handle at least 80 players and that is not even the real problem for me couse i do belive they will make it so u can have lots of palyers without lag... eventually. The REAL problem for me is that i PAID them for the game and i have some spare time now and want to play but i cant because i use freetrack (befor i made the purchase i checked if the game worked with freetrack and it did, if it didnt work with freetrack i would have never bought it). So the conclusion is i feel screwed over and im angry.

[PatrickShiva]

 

 

 

Found my solution: I went in my trackir interface on the top left corner on "game update" and installed the latest game list update. Did the trick for me without the need to re-install the whole TrackIR software. I use TrackIR 4 with TrackIR 5 software.

 

+1. solved the Problem for me too

only correction: it is the top right Corner where to find the "game update" button

[System87]

Dear pilots,

 

I'll try to explain to you why Freetrack and similar software is no longer working correctly in BOS. But first of all let me admit that our studio never did anything particularly targeted at limiting your freedom to use original and handmade devices for simming.

 

Okay, here's the gist:

 

1) Update 1.004 contains the native TrackIR profile. Natural Point company enabled the IL2BOS profile on their side and added the corresponding compatibility. By the way do not forget to update your NP software and the list of profiles;

2) Freetrack being an unlicensed piece of software is in fact using the API produced by Natural Point. At the same time Freetrack has not added its native profile for BOS. So, in order to have it working correctly the developer of this device/software needs to add an adequate profile for our game and inform us about it;

3) We are obliged to add Natural Point profile as soon as we're using the API of TrackIR;

4) Unfortunatelly, we don't know how to get in touch with the developer of Freetrack and tell them that we could use a Freetrack profile for BOS. We have no information about the company authorized to produce this device/software and provide customer support for it. We are open for conversation and we are ready to discuss adding compatibility of massively and officially used simming devices.

 

Did i understand it right, are u saying that freetrack might never again work with BoS?

[Rama]

Did i understand it right, are u saying that freetrack might never again work with BoS?

No, that's not what he said. Read point #2 again

[ziemny]

Ok lets say all of those things are good as you say, you still cant deny the fact that 30 players multy is just rubbish. CLOD a broken game now a few years old can handle 100 players + lots of AI, why cant BoS handle at least 80 players and that is not even the real problem for me couse i do belive they will make it so u can have lots of palyers without lag... eventually. The REAL problem for me is that i PAID them for the game and i have some spare time now and want to play but i cant because i use freetrack (befor i made the purchase i checked if the game worked with freetrack and it did, if it didnt work with freetrack i would have never bought it). So the conclusion is i feel screwed over and im angry.

 

the same here ... 

so what should they do,  give me  my money back or fix it ?

[NN_RugbyGoth]

Dear pilots,

 

I'll try to explain to you why Freetrack and similar software is no longer working correctly in BOS. But first of all let me admit that our studio never did anything particularly targeted at limiting your freedom to use original and handmade devices for simming.

 

Okay, here's the gist:

 

1) Update 1.004 contains the native TrackIR profile. Natural Point company enabled the IL2BOS profile on their side and added the corresponding compatibility. By the way do not forget to update your NP software and the list of profiles;

2) Freetrack being an unlicensed piece of software is in fact using the API produced by Natural Point. At the same time Freetrack has not added its native profile for BOS. So, in order to have it working correctly the developer of this device/software needs to add an adequate profile for our game and inform us about it;

3) We are obliged to add Natural Point profile as soon as we're using the API of TrackIR;

4) Unfortunatelly, we don't know how to get in touch with the developer of Freetrack and tell them that we could use a Freetrack profile for BOS. We have no information about the company authorized to produce this device/software and provide customer support for it. We are open for conversation and we are ready to discuss adding compatibility of massively and officially used simming devices.

Just a, perhaps, stupid question : 

 

Most of flight sims are using the native TrackIR profile, and they work with freetrack too... I use my freetrack with War Thunder and CloD and I NEVER had a problem with it. 

 

Can you explain why it works with War Thunder and CloD that doesn't have profile in Freetrack, and it doesn't work with BOS?

Freetrack never needed any update to work with those games, what is different with BOS?

[=989ShAP=AlterEgo]

Thank you Dear Developers and Managers and all the BoS Team who did their best to make me believe and give away my money for a product that i will not use after this day. I've been with you since the the beginning  (28/07/2013) and followed you every week. There was no post/comment that the only head tracking system supported by BOS will be the TrackIR. And after all that time i spent and invested in your game (to buy a joystick,pedals, rudder), you leave me no another option than to give away €175 for a device that i can make by myself for €25. THANK YOU, but NO, i will not do that. 

 

Maybe you owned another label like "Battle of Stallingrad is officially supporting TrackIR" but you lost another person playing your game. Please to give me my money back. 

Edited November 11, 2014 by =Wolfe=AlterEgo

[Zak]

Freetrack never needed any update to work with those games, what is different with BOS?

It worked with ROF using ROF's profile for TrackIR (updated in 2008 IIRC). TrackIR updated it's profile. Freetrack did not.

So, TrackIR keeps working because it has compatibility with recent BOS engine, Freetrack does not. Pretty simple. And I think there could be a solution. If you have a Freetrack profile that doesn't conflict with TrackIR then send it to me via PM and we'll consider adding it to the game.

[89-]

 

LOFT: 

 

4) Will the BoS also work well with the FreeTrack as CLOD and RoF?

Yes, it will work, we are not going to change anything.  

 

Developer Diary 3 http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?p=7273

 

 

We have Loft's word, so lets not panic just yet

 

Upd: Zak is already offering a solution

Edited November 11, 2014 by 89-

[=989ShAP=AlterEgo]

We have Loft's word, so lets not panic just yet

 

Upd: Zak is already offering a solution

 

It's not a panic 89, it's just another disappointment... 

[89-]

Well, lets not be disappointed just yet  

[tovarisch]

 

 

 

+1. solved the Problem for me too

only correction: it is the top right Corner where to find the "game update" button

 

Updating to tracker 5 solves the problem. Now works fine for me. I also feel the game smoother.

Edited November 11, 2014 by pix_pix_pix

[AndyHill]

I think the ball is mostly in Freetrack's corner now, so it's a bit unfair to blame the devs for it. If I understood correctly, until now BoS has been recognized as RoF in both environments? If so, now that it's recognized as BoS, TIR has updated its system and knows how to handle it, whereas FT doesn't know what to do with software it doesn't recognize to be an FT compatible game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this might be the case.

[Zak]

I think the ball is mostly in Freetrack's corner now, so it's a bit unfair to blame the devs for it. If I understood correctly, until now BoS has been recognized as RoF in both environments? If so, now that it's recognized as BoS, TIR has updated its system and knows how to handle it, whereas FT doesn't know what to do with software it doesn't recognize to be an FT compatible game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this might be the case.

Thank you.

[FG28Kodiak]

They must implement the freetrack Protocol not adding a 'profile'. The Freetrack-protocol is the open source alternative to the crypted api from Natural Point.

 

I am realy pissed about this issue. They are able to implement occulus rift support, but not a widely used Headtreaking Protocol.

[=989ShAP=AlterEgo]

We have Loft's word, so lets not panic just yet

 

Upd: Zak is already offering a solution

 

89, does these words sounds like a solution ? " If you have a Freetrack profile that doesn't conflict with TrackIR then send it to me "  , for me this is not a solution.

 

It worked with ROF using ROF's profile for TrackIR (updated in 2008 IIRC). TrackIR updated it's profile. Freetrack did not.

So, TrackIR keeps working because it has compatibility with recent BOS engine, Freetrack does not. Pretty simple. And I think there could be a solution. If you have a Freetrack profile that doesn't conflict with TrackIR then send it to me via PM and we'll consider adding it to the game.

 

Zak, sorry maybe i do not understand something , you said recent BOS engine. Does the update 1.004 containing a new engine, more recent ? more than 1 year we used old engine and from today a new one ? 

[AwesomeSprawvy]

I came across this thread about a FreeTrack workaround: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12748-freetrack-solutionfixworkaround/.  I'm unable to test it myself as I use TIR.  I hope it helps.

[89-]

I think the ball is mostly in Freetrack's corner now, so it's a bit unfair to blame the devs for it. If I understood correctly, until now BoS has been recognized as RoF in both environments? If so, now that it's recognized as BoS, TIR has updated its system and knows how to handle it, whereas FT doesn't know what to do with software it doesn't recognize to be an FT compatible game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this might be the case.

 

 

Huh? It's the world worst kept secret that Freetrack has no "corner", it had no support for years, just like the no less revered MSFF2. If producer promised a functioning freetrack and MSff2, then freetrack and MSff2 need to function, especially since the former was working until todays change.

[AndyHill]

Is there any simple way to make the FT software think BoS is in fact RoF? That would probably be the quickest fix. How does FT recognize the games?

[Zak]

Zak, sorry maybe i do not understand something , you said recent BOS engine. Does the update 1.004 containing a new engine, more recent ? more than 1 year we used old engine and from today a new one ? 

I'm not saying that engine changed with v.1.004. What changed is that now have TrackIR's official support.

[AndyHill]

At least I didn't even know that freetrack wasn't developed anymore, so it might have been a surprise to the developers as well. Hopefully some kind of a workaround can be found soon.