Developer Diary, Part 73

[Sokol1]

There may a mistake in the game and there should be J instead of I.

 

Is not I instead J ?

 

Sokol1

[FuriousMeow]

You just posted a screenshot with a view throught the gunsight.  See that square glass thingy, that's a gunsight and yes, you can see stuff through it.  Also your comparison shot from ingame shows perferctly the problem of ignoring refraction has done for the 190 cockpit framing. ROFL

 

That is not through the gunsight. If it were through the gunsight, you'd have the reticle there. Notice how when I am off-center in-game there is no reticle? That's not through the gunsight. Light refraction won't just impact the metal frame holding the glass in place - it will impact every single object viewed through it. So now you'd have planes passing from the left and right panes, and then suddenly 10 or so degrees lower when passing through the front amored screen. Yeah, that makes sense. That is why the light refraction nonsense is just that.

 

It's clear what sort of person ICDP is, not worth it. Very wrong, and chooses to resort to insults. I'll see you in the sky and don't get fooled by the 190's 60mm glass, that isn't the light refracting the tracers - they are going to hit you in the face.

Edited July 25, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[sturmkraehe]

 

1. Double glazing does not have anywhere near the same amount of refraction that a single thick piece of glass will show.  The thicker the glass the more the light slows, thereby increasing the refraction.
2. That is a replica 190A as made by Flugwerk, it does not contain a ~60mm thick (IIRC) piece of glass, armoured or otherwise.
3. This on the otherhand is a lovingly restored and genuine Fw190-A5 with a 60mm piece of tinted glass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V3TlPYL8Sw#t=225
4. If you look carefully you will see the bar is almost invisible.  The refraction is clearly visible by comparing the side view to the view through the tinted glass.  Use perfectly straight lines as on roads or runways to compare with and without refraction.

Honestly, I am not worried about the bar being there because the sight is at least not half obsures ALA the original IL2.  I am posting this in response to your nonsense that tlight refraction was made up by old IL2 Fw190 bar complainers.

 

My main concern is the seriously overdone cockpit frames that block most of your peripheral vision.

 

 

 

Hahaha, sorry, but the light does not slow just because it has to go through thick glass. And no: refraction does not care if you have the same thickness in many slices or just one. Funny how so many complain about a non-existing bar on the BoS FW190 while they just seem fine with the obstructed gunsight of the La5...

[Trident_109]

Wow. Elevator compressibility is nasty in this plane. I didn't mark the speeds when the plane becomes un-maneuverable (or sluggish may be a better description), but it doesn't seem too far above 500kph. BnZing Il2s won't be as easy as I thought. It is going to be a learning curve.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Robert

[ICDP]

But only if they put as much effort into the bad forward view of the La5. Otherwises I'd say: Luftwhiners

 

I remember an online only Pacific based WWII flight sim that deliberately modelled the cockpit frames at about 50% thickness from the internal view.  They did this to simulate the fact that in real life the stereoscopic vision would largely eliminate the obstruction cause by the cockpit framing.  It really didn't detract form the cockpit quality and helped immensley IMHO.  TrackIR does help a bit but not everyone has TrackIR.

[FuriousMeow]

I remember an online only Pacific based WWII flight sim that deliberately modelled the cockpit frames at about 50% thickness from the internal view.  They did this to simulate the fact that in real life the stereoscopic vision would largely eliminate the obstruction cause by the cockpit framing.  It really didn't detract form the cockpit quality and helped immensley IMHO.  TrackIR does help a bit but not everyone has TrackIR.

 

Do tell! What was the name of this sim?

[ICDP]

Hahaha, sorry, but the light does not slow just because it has to go through thick glass. And no: refraction does not care if you have the same thickness in many slices or just one. Funny how so many complain about a non-existing bar on the BoS FW190 while they just seem fine with the obstructed gunsight of the La5...

 

Light does NOT physicaly slow down when going through water and thick glass (for example), it BENDS due to how the light wavepatterns interact with the medium (glass in our example).  How do you think a prism separates the different wavelenths (colours) of the spectrum?  The different light wavelenghts interact differently with the medium and are BENT at different angles.

[smink1701]

The Bar is there??? Again?? Really??

What's the deal with the bar?  Can someone explain?

[FuriousMeow]

Light does NOT physicaly slow down when going through water and thick glass (for example), it BENDS due to how the light wavepatterns interact with the medium (glass in our example).  How do you think a prism separates the different wavelenths (colours) of the spectrum?  The different light wavelenghts interact differently with the medium and are BENT at different angles.

 

 Actually it does slow down, thats where the "bend" comes from. But of course - it is not nearly as severe as the "bar complainers" claim.

 

http://www.iqglassuk.com/news/light-refraction-in-glazing/

Edited July 25, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[hiro]

sweet! Thanks for the update! the FW 190 is awesome! I guess this will quiet things down.

 

 

 

The bar thing is simple. Its part of the frame, and depending on your eye level it affects it. If one sits in the 190 and if are short, the bar is a tad bit more pronounced, if one is taller, the bar doesn't get as much in the way. 

 

I don't know if the devs sat in one, but my gf said the "ohh I see the bar" when she sat in it. I didn't see it but when I slid back in the seat, I could see more of the frame. 

 

The devs here modeled it much better than IL-2 original for sure. I guess modelling how tall the pilot is is complicated and probably not on the horizon for the sim. . 

[=jg52=yobbo89]

christmas came early and the gift is better then a nintendo 64!.

[hiro]

fixed it :D

 

 

Christmas came early and the gift is only slightly better then a Nintendo 64 w/ Golden Eye!.

[ICDP]

No the light does not physically slow down, it just seems like it because it is taking a longer route through the medium as it bounces of the atoms.  I hope that makes sense

 

Sorry we are going off topic.

[Eldur]

I did a test with full throttle... after ~5:15 - ~5:20 it died. So there's a 5 minutes limit. Otherwise just stay at 1.32ata max, which is 86%.

[Doktor]

I find the lack of trim disturbing and infuriating.

[FuriousMeow]

No the light does not physically slow down, it just seems like it because it is taking a longer route through the medium as it bounces of the atoms.  I hope that makes sense

 

Sorry we are going off topic.

 

Yes, it does. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/geoopt/refr.html

 

What was that other WWII Pacific only sim? Still waiting on that one.

 

And a 190 bar from the mid/late 90s as well, in Gif form!

 

http://www.byterapers.com/~grendel/ancient/wb/guncam/emc19-frame1.gif

http://www.byterapers.com/~grendel/ancient/wb/guncam/emc23-frame1.gif

http://www.byterapers.com/~grendel/ancient/wb/guncam/emc23-frame2.gif

 

Imagine if the 190 had that rear view these days, the bar would be nothing! (should have seen the 109 - you can see the 109K rear view in this gif, takes a while: http://www.byterapers.com/~grendel/ancient/wb/guncam/emc24-frame1.gif )

Edited July 25, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[=jg52=yobbo89]

[Livai]

Please Help me to understand the morse code from the Pe-2   

 

[Gambit21]

I totally missed the whole "BAR" thing back in the day - too busy actually flying I guess.

Also I frequented SimHQ and never the banana forum.

Today is the first I've heard of it.

 

There seems to be a camera/lens distortion issue looking forward - that's what I notice, and has nothing to do with the 190 model.

Since it's far from a beast, it might be a German bird that I can feel good about using online if I can't fly VVS on

a particular occasion. 

 

In any case, I'm glad it's here - nice work team.

Now looking forward to the He-111.

[Silverback]

Nope I'll stay with the 109's. until all this gets sorted out.

[Feathered_IV]

What's the deal with the bar?  Can someone explain?

 

In a previous sim there was a long, and increasingly poisonous argument regarding the horizontal section of cockpit framing which can be seen forward and below the level of the gunsight.

 

Our new 190 is attracting same arguments, with some saying that a thick piece of glass will have a "refractive" effect that allows the viewer to see through a solid object beyond. 

[Eldur]

Almost forgot to mention... the sim's fps performance still is utterly underwhelming. Can't find any other decent words on it. Why does it stutter so heavily? It ran perfectly fine the first ~50-60 weeks and then, BAM, it's a thumb cinema without a reason...

Edited July 26, 2014 by Eldur

[VBF-12_Snake9]

Almost forgot to mention... the sim's fps performance still is utterly underwhelming. Can't find any other decent words on it. Why does it stutter so heavily? It ran perfectly fine the first ~50-60 weeks and then, BAM, it's a thumb cinema without a reason...

The only way around this is to never fall below the in game frame lock.  So setting the frame lock at 30 will stop the stutters.  Not enjoyable but it's a fix to the problem.

[Gambit21]

Almost forgot to mention... the sim's fps performance still is utterly underwhelming. Can't find any other decent words on it. Why does it stutter so heavily? It ran perfectly fine the first ~50-60 weeks and then, BAM, it's a thumb cinema without a reason...

Many of us are not having that problem - runs fine for me.

What card are you running?

[Seren77]

Nice about the fw-190. Not a fan of cgi trailers. Already seeing people complain about no gameplay in the trailer on the mainstream sites, the game engine is very pretty should have just shown that IMO'

 

Some of the user made trailers are amazing.

[Gambit21]

Nice about the fw-190. Not a fan of cgi trailers. Already seeing people complain about no gameplay in the trailer on the mainstream sites, the game engine is very pretty should have just shown that IMO'

 

Some of the user made trailers are amazing.

Yeah the emerging problem seemed like an obvious foregone conclusion to many of us.

This isn't a Tombraider release in 1997

[Brano]

I find the lack of trim disturbing and infuriating.

It does not have a trim.It has adjustable stabiliser,same as Me109.

[Doktor]

It does not have a trim.It has adjustable stabiliser,same as Me109.

Could you elighten me on how this works?

 

By the way, it's the Messerschmitt Bayerische Flugzeugwerke 109. Bf was bought by Messerschmitt, but the model was still the Bf design. So it remains the Bf-109.

[Gambit21]

It's a different setting - it's right there in the aircraft settings menu.

On the 109, this dial actually adjusts the position of the entire elevator, rather than trim tabs as on other aircraft.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Gambit21

[Doktor]

It's a different setting - it's right there in the aircraft settings menu.

Thanks.

[Brano]

By the way, it's the Messerschmitt Bayerische Flugzeugwerke 109. Bf was bought by Messerschmitt, but the model was still the Bf design. So it remains the Bf-109.

IDFC

[DD_Arthur]

Almost forgot to mention... the sim's fps performance still is utterly underwhelming. Can't find any other decent words on it. Why does it stutter so heavily? It ran perfectly fine the first ~50-60 weeks and then, BAM, it's a thumb cinema without a reason...

 

Have you ATI guys seen this?  

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/7392-terrible-performance/page-2

 

Check out post 43.

[SeriousFox]

Glass Thickness in BoS FW 190 A-3

 

 

Glass Thickness in real life FW 190 A-4

 

I have to say that 3D modeling is very accurate(2nd picture and 3rd real picture is almost identical except for "BAR"),

but Idk why what makes us think or feel like bar is too thick or oversized.    

 

Perhaps dashboard is little bit low compare to real one? Guess we'll never know. 

Edited July 26, 2014 by resmania

[AndyJWest]

I suggest you complain to Kurt Tank - or possibly the person responsible for what looks to me to be a replica.

 

(and for the rest of you, note that this drawing clearly indicates how refraction raises the apparent sight line.)

 

Edited July 26, 2014 by AndyJWest

[SYN_Mike77]

The sim seems to run better lately on my rig.  Very smooth with more than acceptable framerates.  In fact, for the last several weeks I get better frame rates with BoS than I do with RoF.  Earlier this was reversed.  The whole bar thing seems completely unimportant to me.  It does not get in the way at all.  The los in the Lagg5 is much worse!

Edited July 26, 2014 by SYN_Mike77

[SeriousFox]

I suggest you complain to Kurt Tank - or possibly the person responsible for what looks to me to be a replica.

 

(and for the rest of you, note that this drawing clearly indicates how refraction raises the apparent sight line.)

 

 

 

Maybe I was wrong after all.

 

Anyways, I'm really enjoying new Fw 190  

Edited July 26, 2014 by resmania

[Gambit21]

Thanks for posting that Andy

[smink1701]

In a previous sim there was a long, and increasingly poisonous argument regarding the horizontal section of cockpit framing which can be seen forward and below the level of the gunsight.

 

Our new 190 is attracting same arguments, with some saying that a thick piece of glass will have a "refractive" effect that allows the viewer to see through a solid object beyond.

Thanks!

[Bearcat]

But presumably not all the effects are from inside the game?

 

56RAF_phoenix

 

Yes... but it still looks awesome .. and what we have is pretty impressive too.

[Gambit21]

It's well done, no doubt.