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Developer Diary, Part 71

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I dont agree at all. Imagine that.

 

One reason i am a lite miffed at the team right now is the inexplicable canning of basically most of the English speaking beta testers. Supposedly for not finding a specific bug. Forget that the testers were reporting much harder to find bugs than the one they kicked everyone off for.

 

in kicking those folks off. They lost people who had setup servers for BoS to test it. In seeing the dserver application you can see how easy it is to change the weather and time. Save that mission, put it in the rotation.. even auto balance is literally an autobalnce = 0 and its off.

 

What you are failing to understand is how bad not providing simple variety and access is drowning the game before it ever even gets off the ground. Opinions are being made and they are being voiced by thier participation, or should i say lack there of.

 

You think that magically after release those squads are going to jump on board. I promise u it wont be the case. You never get a second chance to make a fist impression.

 

Look at cliffs. Its now a decent game but all those failures and bad decisions led to its abandonment. And now it has a core audience of a total of 200 players online. 200 sounds like alot until u compare it to numbers that you need to stay afloat in the video game world.

 

I know 2 full squads with 20 members each that wont touch this because of the squad limitations. And several people from those squads have the impression that BoS will be an arcade game. And constant games of air quake, even in EA, do nothing to help that impression.

 

So im glad you feel lucky to have anything they give you. But id like to continue getting things out of this product for several years. but the longer the game isnt delivering on super basic concepts like an MP session that isnt air quake or ground hog day. Then the more likley it is to fail on release day. Because then will u not only be trying to pique the interest of casual players, you will have to win back entire chunks of the community. Ask clod how well thats doing.

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Let's look at Cliffs. How many had early access to it? No one. If they did, imagine what that would have been. Auto-balance, clouds on one map, those would have been welcomed complaints.

 

Let's look at BoS, it's early access. If you feel you are missing out, and those squads do, they need to take a step back and realize what early access is. This isn't Cliffs of turD, this is months before BoS is done and even then it won't be done.

 

I don't know how much simpler it can be explained. BoS is still being designed and built. Cliffs of soterriblyDesigned was a final product.

 

but the longer the game isnt delivering on super basic concepts like an MP session that isnt air quake or ground hog day.

 

Let's try to wait on those super basic concepts of a full on war scenario designed to be fun and flown by squads with score sheets and everything else that would be in a finalized sim when it's finalized. What you are wanting here is something from a finalized product, not something that is months away from it.

 

I have more of an idea of what to expect than you may think. I've been in a lot of MP squadrons. I've played a lot of scenarios. I've been involved in numerous wars. They were all in finalized products. Don't misjudge me and think I'm some neophyte to MP simulations - I'm not happy just to have some new title, I'm grateful to have an actual WWII simulation.

Edited by FuriousMeow
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So im glad you feel lucky to have anything they give you. But id like to continue getting things out of this product for several years. but the longer the game isnt delivering on super basic concepts like an MP session that isnt air quake or ground hog day. Then the more likley it is to fail on release day. Because then will u not only be trying to pique the interest of casual players, you will have to win back entire chunks of the community. Ask clod how well thats doing.

 

With this comment, I just have to chip in and say something.  As far as online and complex combat flight sims are concerned, looking at the online numbers from DCS, IL246, ROF, and IL2COD, IL2COD still has far more people online than all the rest of them.  So I don't really get what you're trying to say here. 

 

But to the rest of what you were saying earlier you're pretty spot on.  The only way the glory days of old IL2 are going to ever even attempt to come back is when the developers of flight sims make a game just as good, easy to get into (from open pits to full CEM) easy setup, and easy play, and above all, a sandbox that allows you to create whatever you want in it. 

 

Personally, if a paid group took over IL2COD in it's TF state now, and made more planes, theaters, etc., (obviously much faster than a 3rd party team could), that would be / could be the next IL2 (the glory days all over again). MP code is pretty good.  Obviously it can handle tons of objects and airplanes, and even do it with DX10 / high resolution graphics.  Plenty of stuff to still fine tune and sort out though.  

 

But the entire point I'm trying to make is;  there's been a growing trend where developers have been blaming the market (it's consumer base) for low product sales etc.  The reality is the product is to blame.  If every single thing that was done in the original IL2 with regards to features, content, and ability (core engine and MP capability) yet the graphics were made at a DX11 level and the FM further improved to the CPUs we use today, it would sell like it's going out of style.  And the reason is because of everything I already mentioned.  It already did it once.  It already sold millions of copies because of it. 

 

One day the devs are going to look back on the original IL2 and go "you know, maybe we should just copy that same recipe for our flight sim, have the same features and ability, the same sandbox, a powerful mission builder that's easy to use, a lobby where everyone can chat join, talk, and quickly join user created missions in seconds, and on top of that, have not one fricken gimmick, unlock, or any other BS type stuff, and you know, we might just get a whole bunch of people buying our flight sim"

 

The point I'm trying to make is; People are getting disinterested in flight sims because the stuff old IL2 could do (core engine abilities and features) aren't there anymore in the new flight sims (cliffs of dover being the exception of course).  So when some developer FINALLY realizes it needs to be able to DO everything old IL2 did (not concerned with the amount of content as that comes later mind you), then the foundation of it all is strong and you really have something to build upon.  But if we're playing a game in 2014 and beyond that might only allow 65 players in a CFS, when a game from 2001 allowed 90, and a game from 2011 now allows 100, it's all just going backwards to me. 

 

So again, one day I hope the developers realize people will buy their stuff, throw wallets at the screen, you name it etc., if they make it good.  And when I mean good, a good start is at least having the sim be able to do 90% of the stuff another flight sim from 2001 could (the one that just so happened to sell a few MILLION copies of).  My .02c .  My dream.  My hope.  People are leaving flight sims because they are getting worse.  And until someone picks up the ball and decides to finally make another flight sim that has that sort of replayability, featurelist, or ability, I don't see big numbers EVER in flight simming. 

 

So I agree with much a bunch you have to say on the issue, but in BOS's case IMO, while changing up the way MP is now (autobalance, clouds etc.,) may help some in the short term, unless it has all that ability I was talking about earlier, in the long term, it won't be around long.

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SE Hooves - hopefully the MP scene will see some changes shortly. I don't know but it sounds like the team are just very busy and have hit a few snags. You said it'd just take a few seconds to change. Perhaps that's true but they seem to think there are higher priority tasks at the moment.

 

Bliss - it'd be great to have all the stuff old il2 gave us, but there don't seem to be resources for some things, and also the Devs have their own ideas about what they want the game to be.

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And what the game will be will decide its destiny. Nobody wants to see BOS fail but if it will become a "dogfighter sim" (fast food fun) like ROF - wont be good. I still miss only coop days with ROF. And I miss mp massive missions with old il2..hyperlobby etc...ehhh

Im affraid days of glory are gone.

 

Ps- I know we have semihisto missions in ROF but we lack ppl due to known reasons which are hush hush so i wont insist on them here.

Edited by tikvic
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S!

 

 Original IL-2 still beats any contender entering the fray if we look at features and possibilities it offers. Graphics are maybe "outdated" to some, but better graphics = more horsepower needed to run the game. BoS devs have a tough job as they for sure want to attract people from other products like WT and WoWP but also retain the more hardcore sim fans from original IL-2 series and such. Simplify too much and HC fans leave but "more relaxed settings people" people flock in. Make it too HC and easier mode fans leave. Hard to cater a flight sim today for people who want instant gratification and everything chewed up for them  :rolleyes:

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Like the siren, hate the still present firing delay. Most instruments are finally working, let's hope the rest will follow shortly.

 

I found it to be the best compromise to have ground target indicators enabled, even with otherwise expert settings, as the texture quality is really bad at longer distances making it impossible to spot ground targets at all. Not even airfields can be spotted.

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S!

 

 Texture issues and drawing distance are 2 of the more annoying aspects of the otherwise excellent game :(

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That goes against most instinct we've built up over years of computer use.

 

true :) but we will have to wait till Friday for a bugfix

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The original IL2 own it success not to a lot of publicity but to the public speaking to one another.

And also to the generosity of it concept, the skins where easy to create and free, new planes where free or created in new modules that where nearly new games.

Multiplayers games could be against each other or cooperative (the AI was not perfect but we were not also) but little by little we became better and the AI did not change!

But times have changed and free things are not possible anymore any simulation has a steep price and if you look at ROF you see that now the game is free but every module is not. Shall Bos follow the same route?

For the original IL2 the “demo” was free now we pay for the chance to play for nearly a year an sort of demo but in reality this is also free because we get the full game at the end?!

We are not happy with the color of the tracers, the flight model of this or that plane, the form or the height of the clouds or the most difficult to correctly balance the AI!  Yes all this and many more things are not perfect but are corrected or not (because some remarks are really stupid).

In September when the game hit the shops with many copies sold. And let’s wait for, like ROF, the never ending slow improvement of this great “Simulation”.  It shall for some not be perfect but it is there and enjoy it.

I do. ;) 

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Interesting stuff from Bliss. The interesting thing to me is that millions of copies of the original Il 2 series were sold but there weren't millions of people online. There is a loud voice from the MP element of the game but I've always thought that it is a minority. I only flew online very late in the day. My real pleasure was playing through some of the user-made dynamic and scripted campaigns and the maths must dictate that many of those who bought the game (the ones who continued playing and didn't just get bored and give up) were doing the same.

 

I'd love to see more in the way of offline content, campaigns, missions and a mission builder which makes contributions from the community easier.

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Really like the new way the fire starts to burn and more fires after explosion.

but i dont like the 3d fire on the fuselage and wings. 3d fire is good only in the engine area.

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One reason i am a lite miffed at the team right now is the inexplicable canning of basically most of the English speaking beta testers. Supposedly for not finding a specific bug. Forget that the testers were reporting much harder to find bugs than the one they kicked everyone off for.

 

What you are failing to understand is how bad not providing simple variety and access is drowning the game before it ever even gets off the ground. Opinions are being made and they are being voiced by thier participation, or should i say lack there of.

 

You think that magically after release those squads are going to jump on board. I promise u it wont be the case. You never get a second chance to make a fist impression.

So im glad you feel lucky to have anything they give you. But id like to continue getting things out of this product for several years. but the longer the game isnt delivering on super basic concepts like an MP session that isnt air quake or ground hog day. Then the more likley it is to fail on release day. Because then will u not only be trying to pique the interest of casual players, you will have to win back entire chunks of the community. Ask clod how well thats doing.

 

For real. This.

 

I do REALLY understand that this is early access and that good stuff it still to come. I really do. I really do enjoy 4v4 fights over Stalingrad offline. And I know things will get better. But I'm worried they won't improve enough (Co-ops, good campaigns, FMB) in the time you have left. Plus fixing the many bugs and oddities still in the game, like hearing your own pilot saying that he is bailing out before you have decided to or hit any keys. Or hearing your own pilot say that he has tanks in sight when you can't see them yourself. Or listening to a Yak pilot call Stukas "Sturmoviks". Etc. You have a LONG way to go, certainly not 2 months!

 

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Thanks for the news, Ian. I'm hoping this was some sort of administrative brain freeze, which will be rectified, since the devs have been great in keeping us informed, and their strategy for development of the game seems, to me (obviously) spot on. Fingers crossed for the good ship BoS.

 

(But I've got to take issue with Bliss's cheerleading for CloD. Personally, I love the game, and I've devoted a hell of a lot of time to developing workarounds to get it to do what I and my squadmates want it to do (mostly in the field of MP coops). But it so obviously doesn't do what IL2 did. If it does, why have I spent so long cursing it, throwing things at the screen, wailing, etc, when it refuses to play ball? TF has done an astonishing job, but there are so many bad and unnecessary design decisions in CLoD, I can feel myself getting annoyed right now just thinking about them. Sadly, TF only seems able to optimise the mess we have, which will never address the basic usability issues in CloD.)

 

Obviously, my squadmates and I are hoping, hoping, hoping that BoS avoids those pitfalls. I mean - the thing bleedin' works! It feels right, it feels solid! And the FM, I feel, is second to none!

 

[Touches wood, throws salt over his left shoulder, turns around three times, says three decades of the rosary...]

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Just to be clear, Hooves, your post seems to make people think that English Close Beta team is disbanded for good, and thats not the case.

 

Edit: Im not in the team. Never been.

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Okay, first things first.

Let's try to avoid comparisons between CoD and BoS as it never ends well. Some people like one more than the other for different reassons, and that's about all we can conclude.

Second, the Beta test matter is not up for discussion here. For what it's worth, I got kicked out after the first week I think, as I wasn't playing enough. It sounds like it ended abruptly. If so, thats too bad. The community still appreciates what the testers did and are doing for this sim and others. Don't forget that. However, as far as this forum is concerned, the topic is not open for discussionhere, thus the posts about it were hidden. This happens quite often to all kinds of topics that are flagged for different reasons. Nothing personal.

Please avoid discussion of moderating decisions.PM if you want to say something.

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i just want to add ... the flight in this and ROF are second to none on the feel of flight. it's the closest any game has ever come to "real" flight. the thing the nay sayers need to think about is...games in this day and age of beautiful eye candy (that we all enjoy) is the reason this and other sims are the way they are. i mean il2 (the one everyone compares this stuff to) didn't have to look nearly as good as sims today. it took less pc power to get all that stuff into it. these monster machines of today can only handle so much and hence the reason for lower numbers per server...you all are comparing apples and oranges. if they took the eyecandy wayyy down and added all that stuff you all would be bitchin that the graphics look like crap. you have to have give and take...you have to give up one thing for the other and eyecandy looking real as possible is what people want so that is what the devs try to deliver...just my opinion

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i just want to add ... the flight in this and ROF are second to none on the feel of flight. it's the closest any game has ever come to "real" flight. the thing the nay sayers need to think about is...games in this day and age of beautiful eye candy (that we all enjoy) is the reason this and other sims are the way they are. i mean il2 (the one everyone compares this stuff to) didn't have to look nearly as good as sims today. it took less pc power to get all that stuff into it. these monster machines of today can only handle so much and hence the reason for lower numbers per server...you all are comparing apples and oranges. if they took the eyecandy wayyy down and added all that stuff you all would be bitchin that the graphics look like crap. you have to have give and take...you have to give up one thing for the other and eyecandy looking real as possible is what people want so that is what the devs try to deliver...just my opinion

 Simply, plus one and now also we did change from newbies to a more serious and maybe even to serious simulation kind of gaming. It took us twenty years but we ask for the same price more thousand time more. :o:

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Let's try to avoid comparisons between CoD and BoS as it never ends well. 

 

But what has the CloD cheerleading to do in this thread then ? There is another section in this forum, where it is welcome. But I really get pissed, if all parts of this forum get spammed with that BS.

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Its has nothing to do here, this thread, and also it seems it never ends well regardless in which forum/thread/topic happens.

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Back on the original topic, I noted just now that the jaggies when viewing the aircraft against clouds and smoke seem much better. I noticed them once from inside the cockpit today, but when I viewed it from outside (and subsequently from inside again) they'd gone. I also found that the stutters I'd been experiencing for the last couple of months had disappeared, so now I can actually play it again.

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Back on the original topic, I noted just now that the jaggies when viewing the aircraft against clouds and smoke seem much better. I noticed them once from inside the cockpit today, but when I viewed it from outside (and subsequently from inside again) they'd gone. I also found that the stutters I'd been experiencing for the last couple of months had disappeared, so now I can actually play it again.

Very good news for both issues. Thanks for sharing as im on vacation, away from my pc.

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This are good news

 

But, what about the trims or the ammo counters....?

 

Thanks

What about the trims?

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Yeah why are there so many questions about trims? They are there. if you want them on an axis that's a different issue but the trims are modeled in game already.

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The trims works "OK" for me in the La-5  if you use the keyboard. ;)

 

That's nothing new.

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Small houses small buildings are indestructible even when they have been hit by 8 rockets. They are destroyed either if hit by heavy bombs or if a plane crashes on them.

Even heavy machinegun does not destroy small wooden houses or structures.

 

Is this because at the moment these possibilities are not activated or because the ground structure damage modelling or hit sensitivity is not yet fine tuned.

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Bring out the burgers and fine single malt scotch. We as customer = test pilot within alpha, beta , sold phase. So far I see a 2000 rendition of the original IL2. Nah! Old Il2 is a base of technology, old, new, I have a swatch watch. Actually she is Bulova Space View.  I myself have enjoyed http://youtu.be/paBLI9Z1gls. what we get no matter what one wants will always be a beam of flight physics and damn thee. Computers trying to please the masses, got damn that rudder, those ailerons they just do not turn like they should. 

 

Whatever they give you, learn to fly that winged babe, you can't change the corporation man. 

 

I fly wings man. . . . you might fly designs on a board. 

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Yeah why are there so many questions about trims? They are there. if you want them on an axis that's a different issue but the trims are modeled in game already.

Well cause we'd like to have them on our joysticks like the G940 which allows rotating axis...don't know if the devs have planned this for us. So we are patiently waiting ..

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I fly wings man. . . . you might fly designs on a board. 

 

 

That :salute:

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I fly wings man. . . . you might fly designs on a board. 

 

They've got good music on Nebulas.... :biggrin:

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