SPAD VII 180hp first impressions.

[jeanba]

On 10/4/2021 at 3:08 PM, US93_Larner said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Sgt. Martenot of Esc.94, who would take a VII in favour of an XIII for individual flights, said that "Despite the single gun and lower speed, it was more manoeuvrable than the XIII" (According to Jon Guttmann, Martenot believed the VII was manoeuvrable enough to "hold its own" against German scouts)...

  Reveal hidden contents

 

L

 

ot of French pilots in late 1917, early 1918 favoured the Spad VII over the XIII, but the compraison was made with the early 200 hp (which were not much more than spad 7 with 2 Mgs and an unreliable engine) and early 220 hp, which were also plagued with engine reliability problems.

On 10/4/2021 at 6:58 PM, JG1_Butzzell said:

Me thinks thou dost place the SPAD VII on too high a pedestal.

 

MVR recorded a kill while flying a Halb D.II  and then there is the fight between Guynemer and Udet.  That was pretty much a stalemate.  So you might want to dial back the expectations.

Your mostly talking of the 150 hp version.

As to the fight between Udet and Guynemer, it is possible but not proven.

 

The Spad VII 180 hp was considered as very efficient against the Fokker DrI, provided of course you avoided dogfights according to the French.

And records seem to confirm

The Fokker DrI was a "Nieuport killer" (the french refer to 24 / 27 versions)

Edited October 8, 2021 by jeanba

[US103_Baer]

We've noticed the headshake modeling starts quite early in sustained turns with the S.VII and wondering if that headshake is modeled feedback for onset of buffeting seen before an accel stall. 

 

If some guys with FFB sticks ( @kotori87 @J2_Trupobaw @76SQN-Bulldog  @SeaW0lf   @NO.20_W_M_Thomson )  have time. Could you try run some tests and let us know how you get on?

 

- On a map with no wind or turbulence (pref Kuban autumn over the water,  but not essential for this)

- from around 180kph. enter level turn at 2000m and/or 100m

- gradually increase back pressure and increase turn rate

- note the speed at which stick buffet starts. Perhaps release back pressure till it stops then increase again to make sure the speed and model is consistent. 

 

- Compare to other planes with thinner airfoil. Eg Dolphin, Albatros, Pd12, SE5a, spad13, Pd3a. ?

 

Thanks!

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by US28_Baer

[=IRFC=Gascan]

I took a quick look at this, but I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for here. I tried first the SPAD 180, the SPAD 13, then the Bristol F.II and Bristol F.III on Kuban Autum starting at 2000m (although I didn't always do the best job maintaining altitude in the turns). I performed sustained turns both right and left at various speeds and with various amounts of pressure applied to the stick. I noticed that the feedback I received did not correlate strongly with airspeed, but more with the stick pressure I was applying. Maintaining a higher speed of 140+ kph (descending to maintain speed high if needed) I got feedback with larger stick movement. Reducing speed by climbing in the turn or after burning my energy (90kph or less), I still noticed a that the stick feedback responded to stick pressure, not airspeed. Even without turning, I saw the same thing: pull back on the stick at any speed and you'll get feedback. I could be at 90kph or so with the simple gage turning red and get no feedback on the stick as long as I wasn't pulling.

 

I have both a force feedback joystick and a JetSeat (haptic seat or vibrating seat) with SimShaker Wings, so I get both a feeling in the stick and a feeling in the seat of my pants. I noticed that the seat starts providing vibrations sooner than the stick does, and could ramp up or down more as I varied the pressure I applied to the stick. The FFB stick still gave vibrations, but it happened later in the heavy turn.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by head-shake modeling. I'm in VR, so I might not have noticed it. I'll ask the other 3PG guys for clarification during the Sunday flight or on Monday night (I have a holiday on Monday).

[US103_Baer]

@gascanthanks. Specifically i meant reducing speed by gradually pulling tighter in a level turn. So you could start off turning at 170kph then gradually increase stick back pressure to see when the stick feedback for buffeting starts. It will be at higher AOA.  

 

Headshake is an option in Camera settings that adds headshake as a form of feedback. Its probably not used in VR.

[SeaW0lf]

On 10/8/2021 at 10:22 PM, US28_Baer said:

If some guys with FFB sticks ( @kotori87 @J2_Trupobaw @76SQN-Bulldog  @SeaW0lf   @NO.20_W_M_Thomson )  have time. Could you try run some tests and let us know how you get on?

 

Unfortunately I don't have FC2. All these tests and discussions make me curious, but the module would only serve me for testing under the current damage model context.

 

But it would be a pleasure otherwise.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

83 kph for head and stick shake in the spad @ 2000M and 100M. For the dolphin 128 kph for the same both start to shake at the same time. hope that helps.

[Chill31]

Well, interestingly, I have a good friend who is well underway on his SPAD 7 project.  150 hp hisso.  The guy building it is a perfectionist.  TVAL has hired him for work in the past.  Super talented builder.   I'm really hoping for a chance to fly it...then we will find out how it turns! but yeah, probably a year or so out from that