Changes and tweaks to career mode

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, Swing said:

Already posted on the bug section of the forum :  During the Stalingrad Campaign (Ju87 career with the IStg2, last mission of the first chapter "Avance to the Volga") meeting with an A20B (not supposed to be there at this period).

missionReport(2022-01-03_13-07-41).zip 40.47 kB · 0 downloads

 

Thanks, I see what the issue is now. 

[ghostly_doggo]

I have a question and if it's already been answered I apologize but with the upcoming bon addition will we see higher alt missions, I'm thoroughly frustrated with low alt missions that seem to plague Moscow, stalingrad, and bottenplatte. I know historically some of those theaters were flown primary at lower alts but still you have level bombing and bomber intercept at minimum that happened at higher altitudes. 2000 meters in a Jug or d9 is absolutely pointless to fight at. And as of right now other than pwcg is there anyway to change the altitudes of the flights for campaigns. I love pwcg I just hate having to jump in and out of windows to use it and I can never seem to get promoted while using it. Thanks! 

[LukeFF]

27 minutes ago, ghostly_doggo said:

I have a question and if it's already been answered I apologize but with the upcoming bon addition will we see higher alt missions, I'm thoroughly frustrated with low alt missions that seem to plague Moscow, stalingrad, and bottenplatte. I know historically some of those theaters were flown primary at lower alts but still you have level bombing and bomber intercept at minimum that happened at higher altitudes. 2000 meters in a Jug or d9 is absolutely pointless to fight at. And as of right now other than pwcg is there anyway to change the altitudes of the flights for campaigns. I love pwcg I just hate having to jump in and out of windows to use it and I can never seem to get promoted while using it. Thanks! 

 

Hopefully so, but it's too early to say. I am also one of those that wants higher altitudes.

[ghostly_doggo]

7 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Hopefully so, but it's too early to say. I am also one of those that wants higher altitudes.

I just hope the added delay to normandy is being caused by fixes and quality of life improvements, i am grateful for the hard work and effort they put into the details and quality modeling they put into these aircraft but I don't often play multi-player and some aircraft like the d9 in career get an extremely watered down experience and most of its impart to the altitude. I wish they would take more time to fix whats already here. There's a ton they could do to flesh out career mode. It definitely would make me more willing to shell put money for collector aircraft.

Higher alt missions especially for aircraft that were designed to operate at it. Some sort of supply picture for the front, intelligence updates for enemy squadrons. Skin management, some sort of command points system for aircraft refit as well as sortie preference. Memorial page for dead squadron mates. I quite like the journal and claims that pwcg has implemented in it. Be able to partake in large operations. Better command menu for ai pilots. Even if they did a fraction of this it would greatly improve immersion without sacrificing historical value.

Edited January 5, 2022 by ghostly_doggo
Tired and dumb

[Eisenfaustus]

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Hopefully so, but it's too early to say. I am also one of those that wants higher altitudes.

Absolutely agree - and not limited to the west. At least German mediums and Stukas usually attacked from 3000 - 6000 m altitude. Their escorts and interceptors would have to fight roughly at these altitudes as well. Low altitude attacks from bombers should be an exception not the norm. 
 

Fighter bombers and attackers on the other hand usually attacked from roughly 1500m. 
 

I halted my Stuka career because of wrong altitudes take away a lot of the fun. Try initiating a 90 degree dive from 1500m and take aim…

No fun

so the ju 87 is degraded to a draggy underpowered and undergunned fighter bomber by mission design…

Unfortunate. 

[Yogiflight]

6 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

I halted my Stuka career because of wrong altitudes take away a lot of the fun. Try initiating a 90 degree dive from 1500m and take aim…

No fun

so the ju 87 is degraded to a draggy underpowered and undergunned fighter bomber by mission design…

Unfortunate. 

Not to forget, that the career mode wants you to fly bombing attacks a hundred kilometers into enemy territory. At 1500m altitude.

[LukeFF]

Yep, I agree with a lot of these things. One thing that would really help with altitudes is factoring in the amount of cloud cover. This wasn't that big of a deal before the big cloud update, but now I'm finding in fighter-bomber missions that it's now more common to have waypoints placed right in the middle of large cloud formations. There needs to be a smarter system in place for that sort of thing.

 

Bomber altitudes - yes, both in the West and the East they need to be higher - at a minimum 3000 meters, more ideally 3500 meters or higher. I looked through a whole bunch of RAF Boston and Mitchell squadron reports not long ago for the time period 1944-45 on the Western Front, and over 90-95 percent of the time they were bombing from 11000 feet or higher. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by LukeFF

[LukeFF]

Going back to KG 51 - man, Jan Horn's book just opens up so many things that aren't available in English right now. So, @csThor, the reason that II./KG 51 kind of drops off the map at the beginning of January 1945 is that I./KG 51 took over all their planes upon moving to Giebelstadt on January 2, so they didn't start flying again until relocating to Essen-Mülheim on January 10.

 

Really good stuff! ?

 

By the way, I have to say that Google's text recognition technology is superb. Instead of having to manually type the text into my word processor and then copy it over to Deepl.com for translation, all I have to to is take a photo of the page (with my Pixel 6 Pro), go into the Photos app and have it copy all the text from there, and then drop it into the translator. About 95% of the time, the text is recognized by the app without any issues. It's a major time saver.

[LukeFF]

To expand on today's hotfix notes, all based around Stalingrad:

 

The German units based at Kotelnikovo all now have a correct exit date in December 1942. This includes the units of StG 77 and II./JG 52.

 

I./ZG 1 now has a mission set on that is more tilted towards ground attack.

 

The Bf 110 G-2 can now be flown with I./ZG 1 in December 1942 for a brief time. After this unit leaves the map, it will still show up in AI squads to the end of the battle.

 

During December 1942 - January 1943, German bomber units are tasked with targets closer to the front lines.

 

Some miscellaneous changes were made to the missions assigned to Bf 109 units during December 1942 - January 1943.

 

Soviet fighter, bomber, and shturmovik units now have a far more accurate mission set from the end of November 1942 to the end of the battle. This, like all these other changes, was made possible by a couple of extremely helpful tables published in volume 4 of Black Cross / Red Star, which lists the number of missions flown by the air armies at Stalingrad, sorted by mission type.  

Edited January 11, 2022 by LukeFF

[KodiakJac]

@LukeFF

 

Hi Luke,

 

Do you know if there is a limit to the number of careers I can have running at any one time, or a size limit on the cp.db file as the careers progress?  I keep getting a "Submit Stats Failed" error at the end of my careers when the cp.db file approaches 2.5 MB in size.  I've been scaling back the number of concurrent careers as the problem keeps resurfacing, and now I'm down to 8 concurrent careers just last night when I pruned my concurrent career count when I got the message again.  The message will persist until I delete another career, which immediately fixes it for the time being until my remaining careers progress back up to about 2.5 MB on the cp.db file size.  So I'm pretty sure there is a cap on the cp.db file, but wondering what that equates to in regards to the number of careers running concurrently.  I've started all of the careers in Phase I, and had planned on running them through to the last phase.

 

Since we are allowed to create multiple careers, I am wondering what the cap is, if you happen to know or could ask the developers.

 

Thanks!  

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, KodiakJac said:

@LukeFF

 

Hi Luke,

 

Do you know if there is a limit to the number of careers I can have running at any one time, or a size limit on the cp.db file as the careers progress?  I keep getting a "Submit Stats Failed" error at the end of my careers when the cp.db file approaches 2.5 MB in size.  I've been scaling back the number of concurrent careers as the problem keeps resurfacing, and now I'm down to 8 concurrent careers just last night when I pruned my concurrent career count when I got the message again.  The message will persist until I delete another career, which immediately fixes it for the time being until my remaining careers progress back up to about 2.5 MB on the cp.db file size.  So I'm pretty sure there is a cap on the cp.db file, but wondering what that equates to in regards to the number of careers running concurrently.  I've started all of the careers in Phase I, and had planned on running them through to the last phase.

 

Since we are allowed to create multiple careers, I am wondering what the cap is, if you happen to know or could ask the developers.

 

Thanks!  

 

I'm not sure if there is a practical cap, but I can ask. In the meantime, if you've not already done so, submit a report about the issue in the Technical Issues section of the forum.

[KodiakJac]

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

I'm not sure if there is a practical cap, but I can ask. In the meantime, if you've not already done so, submit a report about the issue in the Technical Issues section of the forum.

 

Thanks, Luke.

 

And I've added this to the Technical Issues section, too.

 

Cheers!

[Yogiflight]

9 hours ago, LukeFF said:

The Bf 110 G-2 can now be flown with I./ZG 1 in December 1942 for a brief time. After this unit leaves the map, it will still show up in AI squads to the end of the battle.

Don't get me wrong, I will happily fly the G2, especially as the E2 is absolutely outdated at that time, even more with the engines we have in game, but didn't the ZG 1 get the G2s after they were removed from the Stalingrad front?

And for my understanding, why is the ZG 1 still shown as AI squad after it is retreated?

[LukeFF]

8 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Don't get me wrong, I will happily fly the G2, especially as the E2 is absolutely outdated at that time, even more with the engines we have in game, but didn't the ZG 1 get the G2s after they were removed from the Stalingrad front?

And for my understanding, why is the ZG 1 still shown as AI squad after it is retreated?

 

ZG 1 started receiving 110 Gs sometime in December, yes. Even if they did receive them after leaving Tatsinskaya, ZG 1 was still flying over the Stalingrad front with them. BC/RS makes that clear.

 

ZG 1 is technically not an AI squadron after they leave the map, but a feature of career mode is "invisible" units that appear as necessary. This is to keep missions from crashing when a particular sort of unit is called for. Because of this, there are two invisible heavy fighter units on the German side, so I have one of them equipped with a mix of 110 Es and Gs from mid December 1942 to the end of the battle, to make them look like I./ZG 1. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by LukeFF

[sevenless]

Luke,

 

you might want to check the bridge missions in the Me 262 KG 51 career. I just bombed a bridge (the target), but obviously it wasn´t classed as an enemy target, hence it didn´t count as destroyed building. Objective completed was triggered though.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by sevenless

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, sevenless said:

Luke,

 

you might want to check the bridge missions in the Me 262 KG 51 career. I just bombed a bridge (the target), but obviously it wasn´t classed as an enemy target, hence it didn´t count as destroyed building. Objective completed was triggered though.

 

 

 

Do you happen to have the associated mission file?

[sevenless]

10 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Do you happen to have the associated mission file?

 

I guess yes. Please tell me where I find it?

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

I guess yes. Please tell me where I find it?

 

It would be under data/missions - the _gen.mission file.

[sevenless]

28 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

It would be under data/missions - the _gen.mission file.

 

Thanks. Is there only one file? Yesterday I played missions of 3 different careers 1 BoK and 2 BoBP. The KG 51 career was the 2nd I played. Does that file include all of them or only the latest?

[LukeFF]

25 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Thanks. Is there only one file? Yesterday I played missions of 3 different careers 1 BoK and 2 BoBP. The KG 51 career was the 2nd I played. Does that file include all of them or only the latest?

 

Unfortunately, yes, the file is overwritten any time a new mission is generated (be it a quick mission or career mission). At the least, I'd make a bug report in the Technical Issues forum and point out in what grid square the bridge was that was marked as friendly.

[sevenless]

15 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Unfortunately, yes, the file is overwritten any time a new mission is generated (be it a quick mission or career mission). At the least, I'd make a bug report in the Technical Issues forum and point out in what grid square the bridge was that was marked as friendly.

 

Thanks! Now I know what to copy/save if I run into that problem again. Posted in the tech-bug thread also.

[Juri_JS]

Luke, it's probabaly nothing you can change yourself, but something that bothers me for quite some time now is that we have German aircraft (early Bf-109 G6, Ju-87, Ju-52) in the Rhineland campaign showing the yellow eastern front fuselage band. Both for Rhineland and Normandy we need standard skins without the yellow band. Maybe you can discuss this with the devs.

[MarcoPegase44]

48 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

Luke, it's probabaly nothing you can change yourself, but something that bothers me for quite some time now is that we have German aircraft (early Bf-109 G6, Ju-87, Ju-52) in the Rhineland campaign showing the yellow eastern front fuselage band. Both for Rhineland and Normandy we need standard skins without the yellow band. Maybe you can discuss this with the devs.

Hello,

It is very easy to change the default skins of the game to no longer have the yellow band or to improve them. For example one of my links to change the default skins of the Typhoon for example the path of the folders and subfolders create.

This is feasible for all planes.

GenericsTyphoon SkinPack / Hawker Typhoon / Downloads - Axis and Allies Paintworks (axis-and-allies-paintworks.com)

[Juri_JS]

I don't think it's necessary to replace the default skins by using a mod. As far as I know, the career mode doesn't have to use the default skins. If I am not mistaken, there is a file for careers that determines which skin is used. So we just need official western front skins, that can be assigned in the Rhineland and Normandy careers.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Juri_JS

[MarcoPegase44]

13 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

I don't think it's necessary to replace the default skins by using a mod. As far as I know, the career mode doesn't have to use the default skins. If I am not mistaken, there is a file for careers that determines which skin is used. So we just need official western front skins, that can be assigned in the Rhineland and Normandy careers.

you are right.

The second solution is to modify the "skins" and "18skins" files in the "SCG" folder
it is possible to assign differents skins per squadron
As an example my "skins" file for Rhineland's modcareer

 

scg.zip

[FoxbatRU]

In the career skin customization files, the developers will have to prescribe a specific skin for each squadron. Even if it will be the same for everyone, but at the same time differ from the default one. If we change the default skin with a mod, then it automatically changes for everyone. Here, apparently, you need to either wait for the developers to register these skins in the career files, or quickly and easily do it yourself. I made several versions of the mod for myself (separately for BoM, separately for BoS and separately for BoK), so that the default skins correspond to the time and regiments that took part. For example, for BoM and BoS, the default 109F-4 have different colors. The same can be done for Rhineland aircraft. The easiest way to take as a basis, for example, this mod. But put your desired default skins there. Also in this mod, I change the default skins for allied aircraft. Because for me, it is better to catch a glimpse of aircraft with tactical numbers than without them. And the fact that they are all the same, the minimum sacrifice.

[LukeFF]

9 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

Luke, it's probabaly nothing you can change yourself, but something that bothers me for quite some time now is that we have German aircraft (early Bf-109 G6, Ju-87, Ju-52) in the Rhineland campaign showing the yellow eastern front fuselage band. Both for Rhineland and Normandy we need standard skins without the yellow band. Maybe you can discuss this with the devs.

 

Yes, this is something that would have to be done officially. You might want to message @ICDP about this, since I think he reworked most of the German skins to 4K.

 

By the way, for future reference, it looks like Ju 52s in the West still employed yellow markings on the wings. This one was photographed after being captured by Allied troops during December 1944 after the start of the Ardennes offensive:

 

Spoiler

 

[Yogiflight]

Hi Luke,

three things, that came to my mind.

1. Is it correct, that the AI squadmates don't get promoted, so stay at their rank for all time? If so, this is definitely something, which should be changed.

2. About the bombload for the Bf 110. Currently you usually use 2x SC250, with the addition of 4x SC50 for supply column attacks. For bridge bombings it is 2x SC500 and for armored column attacks 4x SC50 get added. Why the addition of the wingbombs for attacking tanks? You almost need a direct hit to destroy a tank with them. I would leave out the 4x 50kg for tank columns, but add them for attacks of soft targets, so artillery positions, trains, depots (here some trucks in the depots would also make sense), river crossings, front line, strong points and harbor attacks.

3.Dividing armored columns attacks into attacks for aircrafts with guns to destroy tanks (IL-2, Hs 129) and aircrafts with guns, which don't make sense to strafe tanks (Bf 110, FW 190, Bf 109 Emil). Currently my 110 squadmates are again strafing the tanks after they dropped their bombs, but RTB after dropping their bombs, when attacking artillery positions with the supply trucks untouched. This is absolutely unrealistic and needs to get changed.

EDIT: To point 2, I forgot to mention the bombing of enemy ground troop concentration area, where it could make sense to use 2x SC500 plus 4x SC50, for bombing the tanks and the supply trucks.

 

And hopefully the Devs will go back to attack the ordered targets instead of the AA defense around it.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Yogiflight

[Alexmarine]

2 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

I would leave out the 4x 50kg for tank columns.

 

Not sure if the ZG units operated differently by the Schlacht units but the latter had been using 50Kg bombs against tanks since the France campaign, Stuka did the same with the 50kg bombs complementing a centerline 250kg one. 

 

During the battle of Arras ground strike Hs123 units kept harassing advancing french tank units with their 50kg bombs and their machine guns all battle long.

 

While small they are more than capable to damage external system of tanks or of breaking tracks, basically stalling any kind of advance. I know that the game already started modelling AI tanks getting detracked and getting pinned, if you see them ceasing to advance you should consider your task completed, no need to see the Hollywood explosion (which can occur some minutes later with damaged vehicles in some cases)

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Is it correct, that the AI squadmates don't get promoted, so stay at their rank for all time? If so, this is definitely something, which should be changed.

 

I've seen them be promoted, but I think it takes a long time. However it's done, it's not something that I can adjust.

 

5 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

About the bombload for the Bf 110. Currently you usually use 2x SC250, with the addition of 4x SC50 for supply column attacks. For bridge bombings it is 2x SC500 and for armored column attacks 4x SC50 get added. Why the addition of the wingbombs for attacking tanks? You almost need a direct hit to destroy a tank with them. I would leave out the 4x 50kg for tank columns, but add them for attacks of soft targets, so artillery positions, trains, depots (here some trucks in the depots would also make sense), river crossings, front line, strong points and harbor attacks.

 

Besides what @Alexmarine said, the reason I have SC 50s included on armor column attacks is because there are typically also some soft-top AAA vehicles that travel with the tanks.

 

About adding them for the other mission types you mentioned: the last time I tested this (back when dive-bombing missions were added for fighter-bombers), the AI does not release its SC 50s in a dive. If this has changed, I can always add them back in.

 

5 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Dividing armored columns attacks into attacks for aircrafts with guns to destroy tanks (IL-2, Hs 129) and aircrafts with guns, which don't make sense to strafe tanks (Bf 110, FW 190, Bf 109 Emil). Currently my 110 squadmates are again strafing the tanks after they dropped their bombs, but RTB after dropping their bombs, when attacking artillery positions with the supply trucks untouched. This is absolutely unrealistic and needs to get changed.

EDIT: To point 2, I forgot to mention the bombing of enemy ground troop concentration area, where it could make sense to use 2x SC500 plus 4x SC50, for bombing the tanks and the supply trucks.

 

And hopefully the Devs will go back to attack the ordered targets instead of the AA defense around it.

 

Yes, these are all AI-related issues. Hopefully they will be addressed sooner rather than later.

[Oyster_KAI]

I haven't played career mode in a long time.
I wonder if the current AI wingman is more reliable?
In the past, their mortality rate was too high, and they were clumsy and inefficient both air and ground.
I just keep repeating seeing batch after batch of recruits come in and die. …
It would appeal to me if experienced AI pilots had a higher survival rate like PWCG.

[Eisenfaustus]

I stumbled across this very interesting tactical manual:

Russisch-deutsches Projekt zur Digitalisierung deutscher Dokumente in den Archiven der Russischen Föderation | Akte 248. Leitfaden Lufttaktik (Arbeitsunterlagen für Lufttaktiklehrer), hersg. von der Inspektion des Erziehungs- und Bildungswesens der Luftwaffe, Kommando der Luftkriegschulen. Teil B6. Schlachtflieger. Teil B2. Jagdflieger. Teil C. (germandocsinrussia.org)

here - and on the next page are outlined the princibles of German tank busting from the air in 1943.

 

Take away for IL2 career and mission design:

Canon armed tank busters are mainly to be used against tanks that broke through own lines because only those can be properly attacked due to less AA fire

Canon armed tank busters have the best chance of success when combined with bomb carrying aircraft who supress AA fire

Enemy assambly areas of armored troops are usually well defende with AA and thusly are not to be attacked by canon carrying aircraft but better a target for a bomb strike

tank busters are to be held in reserve until needed so they are available in case of emergency. 

 

There is more to be found in that manual - very interesting! It also lines out the general princibles of the Schlachtflieger and fighter arms - and on the same site can also be found the doctrine of Lw bombers in 1943:

Russisch-deutsches Projekt zur Digitalisierung deutscher Dokumente in den Archiven der Russischen Föderation | Akte 249. Leitfaden Lufttaktik (Arbeitsunterlagen für Lufttaktiklehrer), hrsg. von der Inspektion des Erziehungs- und Bildungswesens der Luftwaffe, Kommando der Luftkriegschulen. Teil B3. Kampfflieger. (germandocsinrussia.org)

Edited January 29, 2022 by Eisenfaustus

[Yogiflight]

7 hours ago, Alexmarine said:

Not sure if the ZG units operated differently by the Schlacht units but the latter had been using 50Kg bombs against tanks since the France campaign, Stuka did the same with the 50kg bombs complementing a centerline 250kg one. 

 

During the battle of Arras ground strike Hs123 units kept harassing advancing french tank units with their 50kg bombs and their machine guns all battle long.

Interesting information.

 

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

About adding them for the other mission types you mentioned: the last time I tested this (back when dive-bombing missions were added for fighter-bombers), the AI does not release its SC 50s in a dive. If this has changed, I can always add them back in.

The Bf 110 pilots do use them in the armor column attacks, before they start strafing. Maybe not dropping the 50s is a bombing mission issue, because the supply and armor column attacks are not specified as bombing missions like the other mission types for the 110.

 

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

I've seen them be promoted, but I think it takes a long time. However it's done, it's not something that I can adjust.

Ok, so I'll wait and hope my squadmate stays alive to experience his promotion.

 

4 hours ago, Oyster_KAI said:

haven't played career mode in a long time.
I wonder if the current AI wingman is more reliable?
In the past, their mortality rate was too high, and they were clumsy and inefficient both air and ground.
I just keep repeating seeing batch after batch of recruits come in and die. …

Funnily, I currently have more the higher ranks getting lost. In my 110 career my squadron has one Oberleutnant and one Leutnant left. Especially flightleaders get shot down by AAA and enemy fighters very often, because the flight turns away from them as soon as the action starts, so the flightleader is always flying alone and therefore  getting concentrated enemy fire.

 

3 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Canon armed tank busters are mainly to be used against tanks that broke through own lines

This was also mentioned in the video I posted in the other thread, that the cannon armed Ju 87s attacked enemy tanks behind the friendly lines. I guess, you already viewed it. Makes absolutely sense as those crates were pretty slow and easy targets.

[LukeFF]

14 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Enemy assambly areas of armored troops are usually well defende with AA and thusly are not to be attacked by canon carrying aircraft but better a target for a bomb strike

 

Yes, the same sort of thing is written in Martin Pegg's book on the Hs 129, and so I've removed Troop Concentration Attack missions from these units.

[Yogiflight]

Hi Luke,

I was just flying a bomber escort mission with the Bf 110 E2. It is a bit strange that you fly bomber escort in the Bf 109s with six aircrafts, but in the Bf 110 E2 with only four aircrafts. I don't really find the Bf 110 E2 that supirior as escort fighter, compared to the 109s. Even more with those engines. Would be nice, if there would be two more comrades joining our suicide squad.

[LukeFF]

14 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

Hi Luke,

I was just flying a bomber escort mission with the Bf 110 E2. It is a bit strange that you fly bomber escort in the Bf 109s with six aircrafts, but in the Bf 110 E2 with only four aircrafts. I don't really find the Bf 110 E2 that supirior as escort fighter, compared to the 109s. Even more with those engines. Would be nice, if there would be two more comrades joining our suicide squad.

 

Ok, sure thing, I can change that.

[Alexmarine]

43 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

 a bomber escort mission with the Bf 110 E2. 

 

Where the ZG units even flying in the fighter roles anymore during the timeframe we have in the careers for the Eastern Front (excluding the night staffel in Kuban)?

 

@LukeFF any unit diary (I think we are talking of ZG1 or 26 here) maybe confirming the type of sorties flown?

[LukeFF]

11 minutes ago, Alexmarine said:

Where the ZG units even flying in the fighter roles anymore during the timeframe we have in the careers for the Eastern Front (excluding the night staffel in Kuban)?

 

@LukeFF any unit diary (I think we are talking of ZG1 or 26 here) maybe confirming the type of sorties flown?

 

During Stalingrad, they were especially involved in flying ground support missions, but occasionally they were still flying the occasional fighter mission. That's my understanding from my reading of Black Cross / Red Star, up to about the end of December 1942.

 

Over Kuban, besides the night staffel, there were some long-range escort missions flown around February - March 1943 (I'd have to check BC/RS Vol. 5 for the exact dates). 

 

But yes, in general, the Bf 110 missions on the Stalingrad map for the ZG units are heavily weighted towards ground attack.

[Yogiflight]

@LukeFFdo you have any knowledge about the fighter escort of the 110 ground attack missions? Some time ago Juri_JS stated in the German forum, he couldn't find any thing about 109s flying fighter escort for the 110s. So it might be reasonable, that the 110s were flying the escorts themselves, especially after being equipped with the F-versions. I had already read earlier in the forum, unfortunately I don't know anymore, who stated it, that this counts also for the FW 190 Schlachtflieger, maybe even for the Bf 109 E7s. This might make sense, as all three aircraft types originally were disigned as fighters and the Jagdstaffeln surely had enough duties with escorting bombers and Stukas, and flying Free Hunt missions and defensive missions.

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

@LukeFFdo you have any knowledge about the fighter escort of the 110 ground attack missions? Some time ago Juri_JS stated in the German forum, he couldn't find any thing about 109s flying fighter escort for the 110s. So it might be reasonable, that the 110s were flying the escorts themselves, especially after being equipped with the F-versions. I had already read earlier in the forum, unfortunately I don't know anymore, who stated it, that this counts also for the FW 190 Schlachtflieger, maybe even for the Bf 109 E7s. This might make sense, as all three aircraft types originally were disigned as fighters and the Jagdstaffeln surely had enough duties with escorting bombers and Stukas, and flying Free Hunt missions and defensive missions.

 

No, I've not seen anything about escort for such missions for the 110s, but it makes sense that they would "self-escort" for the reasons you gave.