Junkers 52 "Tante Ju" /Lisunov Li2/C47 ❤️Fan Club & Help

[angus26]

14 minutes ago, AeroAce said:

Such a brick of a plane. Is there a reason for the corigation?

 

Answer found. For torsional rigidity. When ever I used to see this plane in museums I always thought why the hell did they build it out of something that would not look out of place on a shanty house roof. Now I know. 

Corrugated metal like that (and on aircraft like the Ford trimotor) was meant to be stronger (than flat metal) due to the very thin metal used. If it were to be thicker, flat panels, the aircraft would most likely weigh a lot more. 

[Nil]

Here is a nice Screenshot @ShamrockOneFive did.

I really love screens of Tante Ju, for me it is such a beauty despite its "boxy" lines.

Such an unique aircraft we are lucky to fly! 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by 1./TG1_Nil

[-TBC-AeroAce]

4 minutes ago, angus26 said:

Corrugated metal like that (and on aircraft like the Ford trimotor) was meant to be stronger (than flat metal) due to the very thin metal used. If it were to be thicker, flat panels, the aircraft would most likely weigh a lot more. 

 

Thats smart. I could imagine the aerodynamics department shat a brick when the stuctures guys gave them that to work with. Although I guess it may have some positive boundary layer control benefits. 

Edited June 26, 2018 by AeroAce

[YoYo]

2 hours ago, AeroAce said:

of something that would not look out of place on a shanty house roof. Now I know. 

 

 

 

  

 

  

Edited June 26, 2018 by YoYo

[angus26]

33 minutes ago, 1./TG1_Nil said:

Here is a nice Screenshot @ShamrockOneFive did.

I really love screens of Tante Ju, for me it is such nice looking aircraft despite its "boxy" lines.

Such an unique aircraft we are lucky to fly! 

 

 

Haven’t really been present much in this topic, but what a community, I love flying the ju-52, and am excited to see what’s in store for the transport aircraft to come soon! 

 

33 minutes ago, AeroAce said:

 

Thats smart. I could imagine the aerodynamics department shat a brick when the stuctures guys gave them that to work with. Although I guess it may have some positive boundary layer control benefits. 

I’m not really sure what kind of effect it has on aerodynamics, but it somehow by magic flies. I got to fly in a Ford trimotor a couple months back and the thing is slow and loud. You could just feel the sides of the aircraft, and it just felt paper thin. 

[LordNeuro*Srb*]

Hi guys,

 

i have older pictures from Aeronautical museum Belgrade so sorry for not the best pictures , crappy fon.

 

And here is a link for a virtual museum tour, make shore to chekc it out, same cool stuff there and pictures taken below r from there. Enjoy

http://www.muzejvazduhoplovstva.org.rs/virtuelna_tura.php?jez=eng&id=1

 

S!

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

We also have one in Madrid, Cuatro Vientos Airport.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by PA_Spartan-

[Lysus]

I've been playing less than a week, and I couldn't help myself. 

[Nil]

?

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by 1./TG1_Nil

[InProgress]

Game i bought on sale (really great tho) Deadfall adventures, has ju52 our hero travels with it all around the world.

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by InProgress

[Bushpilot-Edd]

It was the first plane I ever flew in. Big fan. Thanks devs 

 

[-332FG-Gordon200]

I found an interesting German paratrooper training film.

Pity there is no audio.

 

[Nil]

@PuffsesPasses Welcome to the community!

Thanks you for choosing this post to make your first message!

The first plane you flew in? whoa you are so lucky!

 

@Gordon200 Very interesting video, thanks, note that the fallschirmjager loved Tante Ju. They had no means to control their descent...

 

I found a picture but it seems mysterious.

The instruments are not common, and the copilot yoke seems it has been removed but why?

Do you have ideas guys?

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by 1./TG1_Nil

[-332FG-Gordon200]

46 minutes ago, 1./TG1_Nil said:

They had no means to control their descent...

It was intended to free up the hands of the jumper for weapons but made for an awkward descent with no control. US T-10 parachutes were called 'steerable' but in reality they were only turnable. You could control and prepare for impact a little better.

Regarding your photo - The guy looks as if he is keying a telegraph. It may be just the way he is resting his hand on that box. I have no idea why you would remove the right side yoke. More room?

 

 

 

I enlarged the photo, Nil.

His index finger is on a button device and the box has what appears to be a joystick.

Did they arm a JU52 with guided munitions? 

[Bushpilot-Edd]

Thanks 1./TG1_Nil

 

Its was back in 1985/6, I can't remember exactly(was about 12/13 years old).

She was flying trips at the local airshow. My dad bought us the tickets. Ill ask me mom to scan the old photos.

 

Here some info on ZS-AFA

 

http://www.saamuseum.co.za/our-aircraft/66-junkers-ju-52-casa-352l.html

 

Thanks for the welcome

 

edd

[Nil]

@PuffsesPasses You are most welcome. Talking about transport/liaison aircraft is always a pleasure.

17 minutes ago, PuffsesPasses said:

My dad bought us the tickets.

Your dad did a fantastic thing, this is a privilege to fly an a vintage aircraft, Only a few people do it.

I am sure you will always remember this local flight.

Thank you for sharing the old photos with the community!

 

Love this picture, shows how much this aircraft is loved ❤️

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by 1./TG1_Nil

[Bushpilot-Edd]

Here some of the pictures.

My mom used her mobile to take pictures of the original photos, apologies for quality.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by PuffsesPasses

[Dakpilot]

Great pics! 

When I was very young (pre prep school) a flight experience day was organised for our class at Fairoaks airfield in Surrey (as I remember) there were two JU 52 (casa version) based there. However for some reason (technical?) we did not get to go up in the three engined beast and went in a smaller one, I still to this day am unable to positively identify what it was ?but logically and with a little detective work I assume it was a twin Beech 18.

 

So my first ever flight was NEARLY in a Ju-52 lol

 

Many years later I got to know the flight crew of the above pictured SA JU-52 (which I also believe is a Spanish Casa built version) the Captain was one of my instructors at some point. 

There was talk of the possibility of me getting a chance of some right hand seat time, but some DC-4 work in Angola, and a looming contract in Mozambique put that to an end. 

A second time in my life I missed the opportunity, I guess it was not meant to be! 

 

Luckily there is Il-2 Box ?

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[Nil]

Lovely story @Dakpilot thank you! 

I feel sorry you missed the chance 2 times in your life. But it is never too late, there is always an opportunity to fly it somehow.

Maybe if you contact your instructor he would be happy to give you a clue to fly it, and I am sure he would be glad to talk with you!

[hames123]

Have you lot ever thought of creating a transport pilots server? It should be possible, with a map of the Kessel and random flights of Soviet fighters and AA batteries being spawned at the start of every flight.

[Nil]

@hames123 have already thought , but I do not have the expertise for that. Also, Coconut Server is a great way to make transport flights.

[Nil]

Dear Fans, look at that one I found on "transporter volume 2" book!

Even the Allies loved Tante Ju and used it! Amazing!

[angus26]

What a beautiful testament to such a well loved plane. It’s reputation from both sides of the war help prove that it was a very well loved plane, or at bare minimum it was an effective transport aircraft. 

[Nil]

Job done.

Time to get some Schnaps!

[ZachariasX]

This is a sad day. This afternoon, Ju-52 HB-HOT/A-702 crashed in the Swiss Alps, most likely everyone aboard perished.

 

Spoiler

 

This was the aircraft used for the movie "Where Eagles Dare".

 

On this very hot day, 0 degrees centigrades up at around 4500 meters (!) It appears that it coudn't pass the the mountain ridge at roughly 2'500 meters altitude. It obviously struck the hill below the pass flying direction north in an attempt for crossing the pass.

 

I am aware of several occasions, where crossing mountain passes in that area (such as Flüela and Fuorn, both about 2'600 meters) was just about the very edge of what the plane could do and there have been some uncomfortable moments. But  this is just very sad and casts a dim light on future regular flights with the remaining two aircraft.

 

Hot and humid weather is indeed dangerous, much mre so than people usually think it is. At about the same time, another GA plane with 4 aboard perished above Hergiswil NW, about 100 km away. It crashed in the mountain, setting the forest on fire and killing all aboard.

 

RIP.

 

[angus26]

That’s very sad to hear. My condolences. 

[Adger]

Very sad indeed,thanks for the info

ZachariasX

My Thoughts go out to all the family and friends of both the JU-52 and the GA aircraft.

[spudkopf]

My Sister-in-law alerted me to the sad news this morning, I was at Dübendorf only on Friday and saw HB-HOT sitting in the Ju Air hanger, later hearing either her or one of her sisters starting up and then departing for a flight, at the time I was sweatingly taking a heap of detail photos of the Bf-109E3. I'd been there some two before also and in the afternoon saw HB-HOT flying near the Greifensee (a small lake near Dübendorf) where my wife used to live, it was an excellent visual but I did not have telephoto lens with me at the time, but that will be the picture perfect scene I will remember.

 

Yesterday (Saturday) I walking to the Walensee lake along the walking track to take a swim at about the time of the accident and know that it was very hot, while having my swim I noticed what seemed to be an unusually high amount of helicopter traffic in the general direction of Piz Segnas, noting that one of REGA (Heli Rescue) bases of operation is only just under 8km walking away from where I was at Flugplatz Mollis.

 

I am going to Elm (canton Glarus) today to visit my parent in laws hut, from where you can clearly see the opposite face of Piz Segnas.

 

About ten years or so ago I was fortunate enough to take a Ju Air Ju-52 flight and I'm pretty sure the flight path taken was in the same area, will have to check my photo from back then to see which of the girls I was flying on at the time.

 

All in all it is very sad and tragic news and my thoughts go out to the families of the the passengers and crew, and also to the staff of Ju Air who must be devastated at this time, it's all just a tad too close to home for me at the moment.

[Dakpilot]

Condolences to anyone touched by this sad event 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[GrinderX9]

How very very sad  

 

Police in Switzerland now confirm no one survived.

 

20 people lost there life.

 

From Norwegian newspaper, so not very helpful for most of you, one picture.

 

 https://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/i/4dAWaG/20-personer-omkom-i-veteranfly-styrt-i-alpene

[scrapmetal]

This is very tragic. ?I only know about JU-52 aircraft from playing IL-2. My interest was piqued after playing the co-op mission "Where Eagles Dare" downloaded from this site. I entertained the idea of taking a trip by Ju-Air after watching the "How is it to fly the Junkers Ju 52" youtube video.

[LLv34_Wmaker]

Very very sad.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Can't put my feelings in words, but to honour the victims, the efforts of Ju Air and the aircraft for it's many years of service I decided to create a remembrance skin.

 

Have seen HB-HOT in 2016 at the Flugplatzkerb Gelnhausen. At the time I dreamed to one day be able to fly with it.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2018 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[I./ZG1_HeTzeR]

The HB-Hot was often times at my local airfield...I ate and slept so many times below her shade Very very sad

[ZachariasX]

These aircraft have seen a lot. Here‘s HB-HOT‘s sibling:

Not sure what the pilot thought. Maybe he read about Udet oicking a handkerchief up the ground with a wingtip. But just to show what you can pull off with them and they still bring you home.

 

Poor HB-HOT, here in its legendary „Where Eagles Dare“ livery that it kept for many years

also starred in the Tom Cruise flic „Operation Valkyrie“.

 

There is not much of an excuse getting trapped in a narrow valley. But it happens often enough. Still waiting for the names of the pilots, as they might be familiar faces to me.

 

Being trapped that way even can happen in a P-51 Mustang as well, as it happened in 1998. Both pilots aboard were extremely experienced pilots, even aerobatic champions. But an unexpected rear trim, a narrow valley and a cloud layer are adeadly mix. 1500 hp in the mountains can be much less than you think.

 

 

[PA_Willy]

https://www.larazon.es/internacional/mueren-20-personas-al-estrellarse-un-avion-militar-antiguo-en-suiza-NO19356685

[pilotpierre]

German World War II-era plane crashes in Swiss Alps, leaving all 20 passengers and crew dead

By Europe bureau chief Lisa Millar, wires

Updated about 1hr ago

Swiss authorities said the plane appeared to have hit the ground vertically at high speed. (AP: Polizei Graubuenden)

Police say a German World War II-era transport plane which crashed in the Swiss Alps, killing all 20 people on board, was seen nose-diving into the ground.

Key points:

• The deceased passengers were aged between 42 and 84
• Police say there's no evidence of a distress call being made before the plane crashed
• The Ju-52 lacked black boxes that modern aircrafts have

The three-engined Junkers Ju 52 was carrying 17 passengers and three crew on a sightseeing flight when it crashed on Saturday afternoon on the west side of the Piz Segnas mountain in the canton of Grissons.

The aircraft had been returning from Locarno near Switzerland's southern border.

Its operator, JU-Air, has been running sightseeing tours for almost four decades using a squadron of German-made vintage aircraft.

The company JU-Air has been running sightseeing tours for almost four decades. (AP: JU-AIR/Keystone)

Ju 52s were widely used by Hitler's Luftwaffe during World War II to transport troops and equipment. They were also used as civilian passenger planes, both before and after the war.

The plane which crashed was built in the late 1930s as a military aircraft and was later used to operate scenic and charter flights.

The passengers who died, aged between 42 and 84, were mostly from Switzerland.

The wreckage of the plane was in a basin at 2,450 metres above sea level surrounded on three sides by peaks, a Reuters witness said.

Police said they had not found any evidence of a distress call being made before it crashed.

"We can assume that the aircraft hit the ground near-vertically and at relatively high speed," Daniel Knecht of the Swiss Transportation Safety Investigation Board said at a news conference in Flims.

He and senior police official Andreas Tobler said the Ju 52 lacked "black boxes", the crash-resistant cockpit voice and data recorders that more modern aircraft have.

Officials expect the investigation of the cause to be, "relatively complex, because we have to compare various indications, information and evidence and evaluate them," Mr Knecht said.

There also are typically few radar recordings in mountainous areas such as the one where the crash site is located, he added.

'Older planes can be operated safely'

The plane crashed on the west side of the Piz Segnas mountain in the canton of Grissons. (AP: Gaetan Bally/Keystone, File)

Officials could essentially rule out a collision with another aircraft or an obstacle such as a wire, Mr Knecht said.

There was also no indication of any "external influence", he said, indicating authorities did not suspect foul play.

The plane did not catch on fire before or after it hit the mountain, and investigators are yet to find any signs it lost parts or broke up in the air before the crash, Mr Knecht said.

He also dismissed the idea the plane's age was necessarily a problem.

"Older planes, if they are correctly maintained, can be operated safely," he said.

Nearly 5,000 Ju 52 planes were manufactured between 1932 and 1952.

The area around the crash site, which is popular with hikers and skiers and includes a glacier, was closed to the public.

Mr Knecht said authorities would probably need "a few days" to complete recovery work.

ABC/Wires

[ZachariasX]

So far, we have some eyewitnesses of the crash. The plane seems to have have made a 180 degree turn in this valley (in front ofthe pass) and then suddenly dropped out of the sky like a stone.

 

Telling from that, I can only imagine that they tried to cross that pass (it is just this pass, then the relief drops steeply and opens the unobstructed homeward flight down the valley) and suddelny realized that the mountains come up at them (or they are not making altitude as planned) and when it got narrow, they made the tight turn at minimum speed that got them stalled out, nose droping vertical.

 

Conditions (even though the sky was clear) must have been very, very bad that day due to the temperatures.

 

I mentioned before that in the morning of the very same day, a Socata TB-10 crashed in the mountain Lopper in Hergiswil (the same mountain that claimed an F-18 about two years ago). The pilot was the chief pilot of Pilatus AG, together with his wife (flight attendant for many years) an their two kids. They perished just above what is some sort of „Hollywood Hills“ (for Swiss standards). This means, he ceartainly wasn‘t doing something that would be outwardly wrong under normal conditions. You can‘t have much better pilots than him. Also the plane is a perfectly fine aircraft for doing what he did.

 

Athomspheric conditions in the mountains these days are very, very special and dangerous indeed. More like Monument Valley airport than what people were used to.

 

Climate change really needs to redress safety margins for aviation in these parts. What was still safe 30 years ago will get you killed today.

[Bremspropeller]

According to the thread over at PPRuNe, there were TCU developing north of the ridge at the time of the accident, which is not too out of the ordinary given the weather conditions.

What is more interesting is that the experienced crew obviously tried to cross the pass at a very blunt angle (less than 45° is usually taught and done), at very high ambient temperatures (around ISA +20°C) and from the leeside into the upwind-sector of the mountain, which will produce significant downdrafts prior to crossing the ridge.

 

The prevailing conditions (ISA +20, wind at 35kph, gusting 48kph) normally should prevent anybody from trying this as the cumulated effects can easily overcome any performance-reserves - especially when talking about low-performance aircraft such as the Ju 53/3m.

 

Zach, experience isn't always a good indicator if things were really bad after things went south. My aerodynamics professor managed to kill himself with his private ASH-26 in the french alps under somewhat similar conditions, despite being generally level-headed and the polar-opposite of an outspoken risk-taker.

Sometimes all the experience in the world won't help you get out of a situation that is deteriorating quickly.

[ZachariasX]

44 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Zach, experience isn't always a good indicator if things were really bad after things went south. 

That is scary, is it? My experience is that often the best and the worst get wasted. The others just bend metal, but usually don‘t dare venturing in very dangerous situations.

 

46 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

What is more interesting is that the experienced crew obviously tried to cross the pass at a very blunt angle (less than 45° is usually taught and done), at very high ambient temperatures (around ISA +20°C) and from the leeside into the upwind-sector of the mountain, which will produce significant downdrafts prior to crossing the ridge.

This is what they did for years. They got used to pull stunts like that „because it always worked“. Just two weeks before, that plane went to Bozen (Italy) on a similar charter flight. Aboard was another instructor pilot. He said of that trip back north that he was exteremely uncomfortable how low they managed to cross the passes back direction north, at that very altitude.

 

Piz Segnas is a very dangerous corner to fly. Just the day before a friend of mine crossed the Alps in his Bücker to Locarno and he didn‘t dare to cross that pass back direction north, despite the aircraft having a new and powerful engine. It just wouldn‘t climb anymore unles in a thermal on the sunny side of th valley.

 

They should never have gotten near that ridge.