DCS

[Gambit21]

2 hours ago, Legioneod said:

It's excellent. DM and exterior visuals are superior in Il2 imo but the FM of the Jug feels much better in DCS. I know it's not finished yet but I don't know if I can ever fly the Il2 Jug again after flying the DCS version.

Every other Il2 aircraft is excellent but the Jug is the only letdown for me.

 

I'm almost tempted! Buuuuuut....content.

What's the saying...All dressed up and nowhere to go?

 

 

[Ribbon]

So how's the Channel map performance in VR, anyone?

 

[Legioneod]

2 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

I'm almost tempted! Buuuuuut....content.

What's the saying...All dressed up and nowhere to go?

 

 

Yeah, not much other content at the moment but the DCS Jug is what I hoped Il2 would be. Feels and performs like I'd expect a P-47 would. Keeps its speed and has good high speed authority unlike in Il2. Il2 just bleeds speed way too fast and stiffens up way too much at high speed.

 

Imo the DCS P-47 is worth it just to fly around, even in its unfinished state.

[Jaws2002]

15 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Imo the DCS P-47 is worth it just to fly around, even in its unfinished state.

 

Yep.?

 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Jaws2002

[Blooddawn1942]

2 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

So how's the Channel map performance in VR, anyone?

 

I was flying for 2h this night and witnessed no performance issues in VR. Runs way better than the Normandy map when it was released. I see no difference to the other maps regarding the performance. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Blooddawn1942

[Dutchvdm]

6 hours ago, Legioneod said:

It's excellent. DM and exterior visuals are superior in Il2 imo but the FM of the Jug feels much better in DCS. I know it's not finished yet but I don't know if I can ever fly the Il2 Jug again after flying the DCS version.

Every other Il2 aircraft is excellent but the Jug is the only letdown for me.

 

What makes the FM better/nicer in DCS?

 

Grt M

Edited June 4, 2020 by I./ZG1_Dutchvdm

[Legioneod]

28 minutes ago, I./ZG1_Dutchvdm said:

 

What makes the FM better/nicer in DCS?

 

Grt M

It retains its energy once it builds up and its control authority at high speed is much much better compared to Il2. In Il2 the P-47 has a very hard time retaining its energy and it bleeds its speed at the slightest maneuver, it also locks up far too much/early at higher speeds which makes high speed BnZ attacks very difficult. In order to have any decent maneuverability in Il2 you need flaps whereas in DCS flaps aren't required at all, the P-47 maneuvers very well without them.

 

In Il2 the P-47 feels like a pig but in DCS it feels like the P-47 that I've always read about.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Legioneod

[Dutchvdm]

1 hour ago, Legioneod said:

It retains its energy once it builds up and its control authority at high speed is much much better compared to Il2. In Il2 the P-47 has a very hard time retaining its energy and it bleeds its speed at the slightest maneuver, it also locks up far too much/early at higher speeds which makes high speed BnZ attacks very difficult. In order to have any decent maneuverability in Il2 you need flaps whereas in DCS flaps aren't required at all, the P-47 maneuvers very well without them.

 

In Il2 the P-47 feels like a pig but in DCS it feels like the P-47 that I've always read about.

 

I also have the feeling that the P-47 loses energy to fast. Yes it's heavy but currently it feels overdone. I can't back this up but maybe the team will re-evaluate the P-47 when the D22 comes out. It's not the first time they did that. The first iteration of the Fw-190 was an absolute dog. 

 

Grt M 

[Alexmarine]

Opinion based on wrong test eliminated 

Edited June 4, 2020 by ACG_Alexmarine

[Legioneod]

9 minutes ago, ACG_Alexmarine said:

Seems like top speed at SL is the same as the one here (340ish MPH) in BoX but obtained it at 2500 RPM and 52" of MAP with no water injection...  

This is another thing, the P-47 in Il2 really doesnt achieve much speed unless maxed out but in DCS lower power settings are usable as well. I mentioned this a while back but never looked much into it. I do have a feeling that the Il2 P-47 performance at lower power is incorrect or just off in some ways.

[SCG_OpticFlow]

42 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

This is another thing, the P-47 in Il2 really doesnt achieve much speed unless maxed out but in DCS lower power settings are usable as well. I mentioned this a while back but never looked much into it. I do have a feeling that the Il2 P-47 performance at lower power is incorrect or just off in some ways.

 

A real P51 pilot made similar remarks about the P51 and even produced a video to compare IL2 to DCS to real.

[Alexmarine]

8 hours ago, Legioneod said:

This is another thing, the P-47 in Il2 really doesnt achieve much speed unless maxed out but in DCS lower power settings are usable as well. I mentioned this a while back but never looked much into it. I do have a feeling that the Il2 P-47 performance at lower power is incorrect or just off in some ways.

 

Here too, opinion based on wrong test eliminated 

Edited June 4, 2020 by ACG_Alexmarine

[DD_Arthur]

3 hours ago, Blooddawn1942 said:

I was flying for 2h this night and witnessed no performance issues in VR. Runs way better than the Normandy map when it was released. I see no difference to the other maps regarding the performance. 

 

Interesting.  Normandy map performance in VR is still sub-par for me.  I wonder if I can part-ex. my Normandy map for the channel map, lol?

[Blooddawn1942]

2 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Interesting.  Normandy map performance in VR is still sub-par for me.  I wonder if I can part-ex. my Normandy map for the channel map, lol?

In comparison to the other maps Normandy is still not good performance wise, but it's way better as when it has been released. The map was a total mess. 

One should keep in mind that the Normandy map was built by Ugra Media while the Channel Map is a ED product. 

 

Tbh, I've read accounts that people have some performance issues with the new map. 

I personally haven't witnessed that. Flying with VR and and an

Gtx 2060. So no uber system on my side. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Blooddawn1942

[CanadaOne]

7 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

I'm almost tempted! Buuuuuut....content.

What's the saying...All dressed up and nowhere to go?

 

 

 

 

I'm not a P-47 fanboy at all, it was never one of my favorites, not in any of the sims I've flown, but the DCS cockpit is some next level chit. You really get the feeling that you're in some super premium flightsim action.

 

As for nowhere to go, I don't see that. Two maps (and a free one in the works), and you can fill them with WWII objects, land, sea and air, and then go about your business of blowing up everything you see. How is that different from here? I fire up the BOX QMB, I get in my P-47, and I kill some German planes, trains, and automobiles. I get in DCS and load up my P-47 in that excellent mission editor, and I kill some German planes, trains, and automobiles.

 

I understand you prefer IL2 and that's fine - I think IL2 A2A is much better than DCS - but the idea that DCS has "nowhere to go" is betrayed by the fact that there is somewhere to go; England and France in the 1940s. What's wrong with that?

[dburne]

Ok got the P-47 from my backer status, just purchased the channel map and am downloading it now.

Probably won't get to really check them out until the weekend.

[CanadaOne]

2 minutes ago, dburne said:

Ok got the P-47 from my backer status, just purchased the channel map and am downloading it now.

Probably won't get to really check them out until the weekend.

 

Still no Channel map on Steam.  mumble...grumble...

 

Hopefully by the time I get home from work.

[Hoots]

15 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

Still no Channel map on Steam.  mumble...grumble...

 

Hopefully by the time I get home from work.

Hey Canada, if it’s any use I’ve just bought and installed it. Not on Steam.  He he he he. 
But seriously, hope it pops up soon. 

[CanadaOne]

Awwww crap! The map just came up and I'm outta here in half an hour. I'll get it when I'm home. But there will be some good flying tonight.

 

And I have to thank my good friend @LukeFF for steering me towards DCS. I was unsure whether to pre-order BoN, or get the map and the Jug, but through the accumulated wisdom of his input, I spent my money on DCS instead of BoN.

 

Thanks LukeFF, the flying is going to be great!

[DD_Crash]

Not bad for $62

[JohnHolmes]

The map is beautiful but performance is all over the show. Taking off was 40-50 FPS but smooth then flying high jumped to 50-60 FPS but was shuttering, at times pausing for a couple of seconds. 

[Art-J]

9 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

So how's the Channel map performance in VR, anyone?

 

 

Not so great for many it seems, to put it mildly:
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=276432

 

Kind of understandable for WIP product, but looks like it will need quite a lot of polishing in performance department.

[Trooper117]

Think I will wait until it's properly optimised before I take the plunge and buy it... still it's WiP.

[357th_Dog]

I bought the DCS P-47 and channel map yesterday, and it needs some optimization, especially in combination with the Channel map. 

That being said, I feel like the DCS P-47 is probably the best warbird module in DCS right now, and the best recreation of the P-47 yet in a sim.  While the overall combat experience is probably better in IL-2, the DCS P-47 isn't the pig that it is in IL-2.  While all being relative, you can "feel" the power of the R2800 much better, and overall the aircraft feels like it has some genuine performance to it, where as in IL-2 it feels like you have to use a witches brew of black magic and convincing to get any respectable speed out of it. 

It's hard to quantify..but the P-47 in DCS feels right, and feels reasonable to explain why so many P-47's were built. 

[Legioneod]

6 hours ago, ACG_Alexmarine said:

 

I mean the opposite: max power in Il-2 P-47 is on par with performance charts of irl P-47, obtaining max speed at 2700/64 with Water on. If the DCS one is obtaining the same speed with 2500/52" no water it's him that is off the charts 

No FM will be perfect but I find the DCS version to be much closer. At 56" the P-47s top speed is near 340 mph, similar to the speed at 64" and at 70" its only around 5 mph faster. The P-47s top speed at sea level didnt change all that much with different boost levels, it was usually just a difference of 10-15 mph. 

 

Il2 P-47 power levels are off in certain ways I havent had a chance to test the DCS version at various altitudes yet but so far it seems better than in Il2.

The Il2 P-47 just feels like it has too much drag and it loses its energy at the slightest maneuver.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Legioneod

[LuftManu]

Sadly it does not have engine damage, no overrev or overheat.

 

I will plunge in when it's availible!

[Legioneod]

23 minutes ago, LF_Gallahad said:

Sadly it does not have engine damage, no overrev or overheat.

 

I will plunge in when it's availible!

Yep, it doesnt have a good DM yet either, still needs the new DM.

[Alexmarine]

Accept my apologies @Legioneod. I was able to make some test run today and it confirmed the irl performance charts for both level speed and climb rate. Water injection doesn't seem modelled, but like it looks like is permanently ON (at least for now). Only issue we noted is that maybe is a little too agile, outperforming in turns the P-51D-25 at all altitude and for all time the turn was kept. Definetely need some more polishing work and a proper DM and thermal model to it but it certainly growed up on me more 

Edited June 4, 2020 by ACG_Alexmarine

[[-=BP=-]Slegawsky_VR]

Unedited, raw in game picture.

[Ribbon]

2 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Think I will wait until it's properly optimised before I take the plunge and buy it... still it's WiP.

Same here and by than maybe it goes on a sale....20-30$ is reasonable price for the map!

[RedKestrel]

1 hour ago, ACG_Alexmarine said:

Accept my apologies @Legioneod. I was able to make some test run today and it confirmed the irl performance charts for both level speed and climb rate. Water injection doesn't seem modelled, but like it looks like is permanently ON (at least for now). Only issue we noted is that maybe is a little too agile, outperforming in turns the P-51D-25 at all altitude and for all time the turn was kept. Definetely need some more polishing work and a proper DM and thermal model to it but it certainly growed up on me more 

A P-47 out-turning a P-51 at all altitudes sounds way off IMO. That sounds like more than a polish.

Edited June 4, 2020 by RedKestrel

[Legioneod]

13 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

A P-47 out-turning a P-51 at all altitudes sounds way off IMO. That sounds like more than a polish.

Agreed but is it doing it in a sustained turn or just turning as quickly as possible without regard to speed loss? Stalls aren't fully modeled yet so that could be a factor. Also to be fair the P-47 in Il2 does the same thing but with flaps.

[Alexmarine]

@RedKestrel probably drag and weight calculations are somewhat off (And I don't exclude that the 51 pilot was not completely doing everything right despite my instruction, you know... Too much time spent on modern jets ?). We had some planes suffering same issues here in BoX but on the opposite kind (remember how it was manouvering in the P-40?)

 

@Legioneodindeed sustained ended up badly in most cases for the 51. It fared better in sharp turns at max speed but the 47 wasn't that behind

Edited June 4, 2020 by ACG_Alexmarine

[Legioneod]

9 minutes ago, ACG_Alexmarine said:

@RedKestrel probably drag and weight calculations are somewhat off (And I don't exclude that the 51 pilot was not completely doing everything right despite my instruction, you know... Too much time spent on modern jets ?)

 

@Legioneodindeed sustained ended up badly in most cases for the 51. It fared better in sharp turns at max speed but the 47 wasn't that behind

Strange, I'm gonna check it out with my friend tonight. He loves the P-51 so I know he'll fly as best as possible. Still, if something is off then it needs to be fixed, I still don't think the P-47 is/should be anywhere near as sluggish/draggy as it is in Il2.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Legioneod

[dburne]

Had a quick test flight in VR with the P-47 on the new Channel Map.

Cockpit is gorgeous, great looking and handling plane.

Map needs some serious optimization especially for VR, over land in the new Map  with populated areas I was below

ASW of 40 fps which induced lot of stutter. Worse than the Normandy Map.

 

[RedKestrel]

7 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Agreed but is it doing it in a sustained turn or just turning as quickly as possible without regard to speed loss? Stalls aren't fully modeled yet so that could be a factor. Also to be fair the P-47 in Il2 does the same thing but with flaps.

The flaps in Il-2 need a look at for all planes IMO, there is some wonky behaviour there, not just in the Jug. But there is an easy solution for me when flying the Jug, which is just not to use the flaps. Manuals indicate they were not meant to be used above +/-200mph anyway so if I stick to the manual I can make believe like I am a real pilot. ?
 

3 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 I still don't think the P-47 is/should be anywhere near as sluggish/draggy as it is in Il2.

Maybe so. Even so,  I still would not expect to out-turn a Mustang on the deck, that seems wrong to me in a fundamental way. I can already turn with FW-190As on the deck and even catch them in a climb with WEP enabled. I don't find the turn performance to be worse than expected, the only place I feel it may be under-modeled is in the zoom after a dive. But then I am not the best at staying coordinated and properly trimmed either.

I love the P-47 and it is the first time I've been tempted to dip my toe into DCS, but for the asking price I feel like it needs to be substantially better than Il-2s offering in terms of modeling. 

No point in rushing to judgement I suppose. I can wait until it is out of early access and evaluate it then, once they have ironed the kinks out. My understanding is that the EA aircraft in DCS are considered more WIP, whereas in Il-2 when they release it in EA they consider it 'complete', though they will update it later if it calls for it. So its sort of apples and oranges at the moment.

[Legioneod]

3 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

The flaps in Il-2 need a look at for all planes IMO, there is some wonky behaviour there, not just in the Jug. But there is an easy solution for me when flying the Jug, which is just not to use the flaps. Manuals indicate they were not meant to be used above +/-200mph anyway so if I stick to the manual I can make believe like I am a real pilot. ?
 

Maybe so. Even so,  I still would not expect to out-turn a Mustang on the deck, that seems wrong to me in a fundamental way. I can already turn with FW-190As on the deck and even catch them in a climb with WEP enabled. I don't find the turn performance to be worse than expected, the only place I feel it may be under-modeled is in the zoom after a dive. But then I am not the best at staying coordinated and properly trimmed either.

I love the P-47 and it is the first time I've been tempted to dip my toe into DCS, but for the asking price I feel like it needs to be substantially better than Il-2s offering in terms of modeling. 

No point in rushing to judgement I suppose. I can wait until it is out of early access and evaluate it then, once they have ironed the kinks out. My understanding is that the EA aircraft in DCS are considered more WIP, whereas in Il-2 when they release it in EA they consider it 'complete', though they will update it later if it calls for it. So its sort of apples and oranges at the moment.

I don't think the turn performance overall in Il2 is incorrect I just think it losses speed much too quickly and has a bit too much drag. It also stiffens up early imo which makes high speed maneuvers quite difficult.
I'm not saying either one is perfect but I just think DCS is a better representation overall at least in its regard to keeping speed/energy and it's zoom/dive.

[DD_Arthur]

1 hour ago, ACG_Alexmarine said:

 Only issue we noted is that maybe is a little too agile, outperforming in turns the P-51D-25 at all altitude and for all time the turn was kept. 

 

At last!  Someone has given the P47 the folklore flight model that everyone thinks it shoud have 

[Jaws2002]

You have to remember, this is early access. Things will change. All planes get tweaked during early access, but one thing i like about this P-47. Back on the old Ubizoo, we had the privilege to have a member who flew the p-47 during the war. Mr. Monroe Q, R.I.P. I even had the privilege to fly with and against him online.

 He said one thing about the P-47 that all games until now got wrong. He said that, when you throw the Jug in a turn, it turned. It didn't immediately drop a wing and go into a spin. He said the P-47 was very forgiving and it turned very well for such a big plane.

     This DCS Jug does turn very well. Things will be tweaked in the next few months, but overall I like it. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Jaws2002

[Lusekofte]

38 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

At last!  Someone has given the P47 the folklore flight model that everyone thinks it shoud have 

It is refreshing. But to me it is just as bad news as the P 47 we had in GB before it git reviced

9 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

This DCS Jug does turn very well. Things will be tweaked in the next few months, but overall I like it.

I really will not notice. If it act like a normal jug when flying I will be happy. I wont take it online anyway.