Invisible Planes Bug

[No.23_Gaylion]

My recording is the same as Larner's. HL is invisible until he is piquing verticle on the SPAD after cocking guns. Second D7 is just firing wildly. No idea why. 

 

I need to check back because I had seen two contacts prior to this that looked like they disappeared as I was watching them. But I probably just lost sight of them. They were a long ways out, probably 10k, and we moved to attack something else and I completely lost SA on those two. 

 

My track record was 18 mins so I need to see if they ever show up at all.

Edited January 13, 2020 by US213_Talbot

[HiIIBiIIy]

This "bug" been around for 4 years, have the dev's acknowledged it ? Or they just hoping it will disappear!  

[No.23_Triggers]

3 hours ago, US213_Talbot said:

I need to check back because I had seen two contacts prior to this that looked like they disappeared as I was watching them. But I probably just lost sight of them. They were a long ways out, probably 10k, and we moved to attack something else and I completely lost SA on those two. 

 

Yeah, I saw em too. In fact, I'm sure one of us said on comms that we were expecting high D7s from the position those two approached from ?

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

3 hours ago, HiIIBiIIy said:

This "bug" been around for 4 years, have the dev's acknowledged it ? Or they just hoping it will disappear!  

 

Well for three of those years, all the fanbois on this forum could scoff and tell you everything is fine, and to just improve your scanning and situational awareness.

 

Now with the much slower closing speeds of the FC aircraft, it's on full display and undeniable.  It's going to be just as bad if it's present in Tank Crew.

Edited January 13, 2020 by J28w-Broccoli

[SeaW0lf]

It's been 5 years guys. The first post is from January 2015 (as far as I know). 

 

And I found this post from the devs from 2016.

 

And this:

 

 

 

[JGr2/J5_Hotlead]

Awww...you had to ruin my moment! I was feeling pretty good about that bounce lol! ? 

 

But seriously, that is very odd. ? We had you guys in sight the whole time and just assumed you guys didn't notice us. This probably would explain some of the times we've gotten bounced too. Thanks for documenting this! I really hope it gets fixed. 

Edited January 14, 2020 by JG1_Hotlead_J10

[J5_Gamecock]

On 1/13/2020 at 5:20 AM, US93_Larner said:

I found the same moment from Hotlead's perspective! I'm thinking that it looks like he may have become visible when he cocked his guns...

 May explain why I'm never invisible, I bet I cock my guns every 30 seconds or so whether I need to or not.  Old habit I guess... could also explain poor accuracy rating. (yeah, that's it) 

[No.23_Gaylion]

I do the same thing, ha.

 

Well, there is some sort of an answer for it: cock your guns every so often and as you set up on someone.

 

That's what a true chivalrous night of the sky would do, anyhow.

Edited January 15, 2020 by US213_Talbot

[BMA_Hellbender]

The other night we noticed that when many people were on, skins don't just take a while to load (even official skins), the actual plane model becomes a lower LOD.

 

This is definitely not happening when the J5 server is almost empty.

 

(click for higher quality)

 

Well at least we know it's not tied to custom skins and I can keep painting...

Edited January 15, 2020 by J5_Hellbender-Sch27b

[Zooropa_Fly]

9 hours ago, J5_Gamecock said:

 May explain why I'm never invisible, I bet I cock my guns every 30 seconds or so whether I need to or not.  Old habit I guess... could also explain poor accuracy rating. (yeah, that's it) 

 

8 hours ago, US213_Talbot said:

I do the same thing, ha.

 

Well, there is some sort of an answer for it: cock your guns every so often and as you set up on someone.

 

That's what a true chivalrous night of the sky would do, anyhow.

 

You boys really should leave the cock alone until you need it.

Waste of bullets.

Be firing blanks in no time.

 

S!

 

[No.23_Starling]

As depressing as it sounds, I’m no longer flying over the enemy lines in MP, instead keeping either over mud or own lines then using flak or the map AF indicators as an early warning. Since then I’ve not been bounced once, including when planes have suddenly appeared out of nowhere above (I’ll usually send a message on chat to let them know I see them :-p).

 

Until I know this is fixed I’ll keep my Fokker/Spad away from the Klingons. 

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

17 minutes ago, No56_Waggaz said:

As depressing as it sounds, I’m no longer flying over the enemy lines in MP, instead keeping either over mud or own lines then using flak or the map AF indicators as an early warning. Since then I’ve not been bounced once, including when planes have suddenly appeared out of nowhere above (I’ll usually send a message on chat to let them know I see them :-p).

 

Until I know this is fixed I’ll keep my Fokker/Spad away from the Klingons. 

 

I just haven't been playing at all.  For a game heavily based on spotting, a (fairly frequent) bug like this being allowed to persist for so long is not excusable.

[No.23_Gaylion]

We had one last Thursday.  Another D7...

[Cynic_Al]

6 hours ago, J28w-Broccoli said:

 

I just haven't been playing at all.  For a game heavily based on spotting, a (fairly frequent) bug like this being allowed to persist for so long is not excusable.

 

I agree and reject the argument that it's a hard one to track-down. I'm sure any netcode programmer would find the problem in no time.

 

Regarding mitigation, does anyone know if hand signals work in FC? If so, that would count as a visible state change, which should have the effect of restoring visibility in the same way as cocking/firing guns does.

 

 

[No.23_Gaylion]

Yeah, they work. Don't know if that makes them reappear though.

 

Would be hard to get that tested because it seems the folks you are flying with all see you.

 

 

[WWBiker_]

Does this happen in all the servers ? I have yet to encounter a cloaked plane yet ….We the 20th have spent countless hours on our server and yet to see one {pun I guess} all thou we had two disappear last night in our assault practice were they went who knows. Maybe they are popping up in flug.  

 

[SeaW0lf]

1 hour ago, NO.20_D_McGoun said:

Does this happen in all the servers ? I have yet to encounter a cloaked plane yet ….We the 20th have spent countless hours on our server and yet to see one {pun I guess} all thou we had two disappear last night in our assault practice were they went who knows. Maybe they are popping up in flug.  

 

 

You have to record every track and check the ones that you got bounced or you that have a suspicion, like the one I recorded with empty flak following something.

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

4 hours ago, NO.20_D_McGoun said:

Does this happen in all the servers ? I have yet to encounter a cloaked plane yet ….We the 20th have spent countless hours on our server and yet to see one {pun I guess} all thou we had two disappear last night in our assault practice were they went who knows. Maybe they are popping up in flug.  

 

It's a known bug occuring in a variety of servers for at least 4 years in both WW2 and now WWI servers. If you read further back on this thread you'll encounter links to original reporting of the bug dating back before Flying Circus and Flugpark.....good thing all the WW2 pilots didn't stop flying four years ago....we wouldn't be "rediscovering" it here in Flying Circus.  

[No.23_Gaylion]

Unfortunately, I think the best option to minimize this is more AA everywhere....

[WWBiker_]

16 minutes ago, J5_Baeumer said:

It's a known bug occuring in a variety of servers for at least 4 years in both WW2 and now WWI servers. If you read further back on this thread you'll encounter links to original reporting of the bug dating back before Flying Circus and Flugpark.....good thing all the WW2 pilots didn't stop flying four years ago....we wouldn't be "rediscovering" it here in Flying Circus.  

Are the planes player or AI ?

[J5_Gamecock]

3 hours ago, NO.20_D_McGoun said:

Are the planes player or AI ?

Player for sure, don't think it applies to AI... but who knows?

[BMA_Hellbender]

7 hours ago, J5_Baeumer said:

 

It's a known bug occuring in a variety of servers for at least 4 years in both WW2 and now WWI servers. If you read further back on this thread you'll encounter links to original reporting of the bug dating back before Flying Circus and Flugpark.....good thing all the WW2 pilots didn't stop flying four years ago....we wouldn't be "rediscovering" it here in Flying Circus.  

 

My theory is that it is a similar problem as the skin caching issue, which happens when many players are active on the server. In other words: it's less of a problem when fewer people are on.

 

At the moment we have little trouble in filling up the Flugpark during scheduled events (Thursdays and weekend nights), but it's completely empty most of the time. I would recommend flying more during "off-hours" if it's your intention to build up a streak. And fly more two-seaters, of course, as AI gunners do the spotting for you.

[HagarTheHorrible]

4 hours ago, J5_Gamecock said:

Player for sure, don't think it applies to AI... but who knows?

 

I was on the J5 server, on my own, a few nights ago, the Archie was certainly tracking something flying down the Allied front.  Despite being reasonably close and following the bursts as they progressed along the front there was no sign of what the AA was shooting at.

[emely]

4 hours ago, J5_Gamecock said:

Player for sure, don't think it applies to AI... but who knows?

If damage has been received, information about this will be on the statistics website.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

Just now, J5_Hellbender-Sch27b said:

 

My theory is that it is a similar problem as the skin caching issue, which happens when many players are active on the server. In other words: it's less of a problem when fewer people are on.

 

At the moment we have little trouble in filling up the Flugpark during scheduled events (Thursdays and weekend nights), but it's completely empty most of the time. I would recommend flying more during "off-hours" if it's your intention to build up a streak. And fly more two-seaters, of course, as AI gunners do the spotting for you.

 

For clarification, off hours refers to approximately  160 of 168 hrs/wk.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

So this happens in il2 as well right? if so what kind of server does it happen in? a home server or a commercial server? What is the J5 server? 

[No.23_Gaylion]

Ya happens in WW2 

[J2_Trupobaw]

Out of curiosity, have you sighted in on Sizzlor map? All cases I met were on Matthias map.

[No.23_Gaylion]

I think at this point, given that this bug has been reported as far back as 5 years, that it is safe to say it is not tied to FC/WWI and that it is something within IL2 itself.

 

I think what someone mentioned before about it being more noticable in WWI because planes are much closer and slower than in WWII is correct.

[SeaW0lf]

1 hour ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

Out of curiosity, have you sighted in on Sizzlor map? All cases I met were on Matthias map.

 

Which one is Sizzlorr's map? 

 

My tracks are: one from noon_arras1918 and two from dawn_arras1918. Another one was just anecdotal and I don't recall which map was that. This in a space of 50 days. I might have had at leat one more, but it was when I was not recording every sortie.

[JG1_Etzel]

I do not believe it's map related, I saw this incident yesterday from 3rd person perspective on J5 server and I think that was Sizzlorrs map...

 

But one interesting fact I did notice quite clearly yesterday:

I was coming in a Dr.I from Beugnatre to Bullecourt, where I wanted to meet Butzzell in his Halb for escorting him then. When I arrived he had already taken off and I saw him flying low level around the field.

Suddenly I saw his Gunner shooting, but did not see any target, via TS also Butzz told he could not see any reason why his gunner went active... It took some seconds of flying while his gunner was all the time firing until suddendly a Se5 appeared out of nowhere only 20-30 meters behind Butzzells tail and started firing exactly in that moment.

On the first reading nothing new to all other reports you can find in this thread on this Bug with one exception: The AI Gunner did take notice of the enemy plane long before it became visible

Up to now my assumption was that the information of those invisible planes was not transported from the server to all of the relevant clients around before they start firing, so it is explainable that the ground fire (controlled by the server) recognice those planes and become active but some of the pilots do not see them...

But now (if my assumption is correct, that the gunner in a human flown 2-seater is controlled by the PC of the Pilot) it is clear that the information of the enemy plane in fact is available at the clients PC but, for what reason so ever, it is not processed correctly to be shown on the screen!

 

No Idea if that would help finding the root cause of the issue, but think it cannot be a bad idea to report that observation here.

 

PS.: Unfortunatly I have no recording of that situation... ?

[No.23_Gaylion]

So far every thursday fight there has been at least one invisible enemy situation. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by US213_Talbot

[SeaW0lf]

19 minutes ago, II./JG1_Etzel said:

PS.: Unfortunatly I have no recording of that situation... ?

 

You can relay this information on the few invisible planes bug reports that exist on this forum. No one will doubt you, since it wasn't a guess, the plane was only being seeing by the gunner and you guys were crossing information on comms, and it is important for people to know this.

 

If we can make a push, they might start working on it again, because if we don't share these things, there is no reason for them to work on it. Even if the bug is critical and 5 years old.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

2 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

If we can make a push, they might start working on it again,

You mean they stopped working on this? 

 

Wonder if there is a way to keep records of everything that is happening, and the ones we know who had the invisible planes can check the records and see if there is an anomaly happening. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by NO.20_W_M_Thomson

[J2_Trupobaw]

3 hours ago, II./JG1_Etzel said:

I do not believe it's map related, I saw this incident yesterday from 3rd person perspective on J5 server and I think that was Sizzlorrs map...

 

But one interesting fact I did notice quite clearly yesterday:

I was coming in a Dr.I from Beugnatre to Bullecourt, where I wanted to meet Butzzell in his Halb for escorting him then. When I arrived he had already taken off and I saw him flying low level around the field.

Suddenly I saw his Gunner shooting, but did not see any target, via TS also Butzz told he could not see any reason why his gunner went active... It took some seconds of flying while his gunner was all the time firing until suddendly a Se5 appeared out of nowhere only 20-30 meters behind Butzzells tail and started firing exactly in that moment.

On the first reading nothing new to all other reports you can find in this thread on this Bug with one exception: The AI Gunner did take notice of the enemy plane long before it became visible

Up to now my assumption was that the information of those invisible planes was not transported from the server to all of the relevant clients around before they start firing, so it is explainable that the ground fire (controlled by the server) recognice those planes and become active but some of the pilots do not see them...

But now (if my assumption is correct, that the gunner in a human flown 2-seater is controlled by the PC of the Pilot) it is clear that the information of the enemy plane in fact is available at the clients PC but, for what reason so ever, it is not processed correctly to be shown on the screen!

 

No Idea if that would help finding the root cause of the issue, but think it cannot be a bad idea to report that observation here.

 

PS.: Unfortunatly I have no recording of that situation... ?

 

1. There is plenty of sighitngs of invisible D.VIIF, some S.Es , and few if any of other planes. That's pretty consistent, unlike WW2 where I don't think it is tied to plane type. We have two map builds, Sizzlors (one that hass Arras) and Matthias BS-derivates (ones that have airstarts, but end short of Arras). The bug is either reproducing more with D.VIIFs/S.E.5s, regardless of map, or is reproducing more with D.VIIFs / S.E.5s on Matthias maps. I think we may have something that could lead to reproduction here; depending on answer, troubleshooters should look closer on the plane or on the map.

2. There is no reason for gunner to be riding players PC; he's part of enviroment and can be controlled from server side. Especially since the game expects gunner to be on other machine anyway (in case he is human). If anything this encounter suggedsts gunner is not on client side.

 

[JG1_Etzel]

3 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

You can relay this information on the few invisible planes bug reports that exist on this forum. No one will doubt you, since it wasn't a guess, the plane was only being seeing by the gunner and you guys were crossing information on comms, and it is important for people to know this.

 

If we can make a push, they might start working on it again, because if we don't share these things, there is no reason for them to work on it. Even if the bug is critical and 5 years old.

 

It's not that I am affraid that anyone will doubt on what I told, but it might be helpful to see in the 3rd person perspective the moment when the Gunner started to shoot and beeing able to check exactly how long this plane flew around invisible; but anyhow the most important info for sure is: The AI Gunners can "see" the plane!

 

Btw.: I did a look in the stats =>

• This was the mission of Butzzell where this happened:   http://162.248.94.112:8000/de/sortie/log/18796/?tour=8
• and this is the corresponding mission log of 1.JaVA_Biggles-VR who was the Pilot of the SE5  http://162.248.94.112:8000/de/sortie/log/18744/?tour=8 

And the log of Biggles is showing another (for me very) interesting Detail: Biggles was involved in fights already before this incident; meaning he was already visible to at least 3 different central pilots (Trupo, Kaiser & Klugermann) before around 10 minutes later he was invisible for Butzzell & me...

So in that 10 minutes since the last contact to other pilots on the way to us something technically happend or maybe some information in the server-client-comunication was lost that caused both clients of Butzz and me not to generate graphic-wise the objective of this plane ... absolutely confusing to me....?  ?

 

Regarding pushing: Of course we should! Maybe it's as Talbot written above: In WW2 scenario based on the significant higher speeds it might not be that recognizable for the users, and therefore there are not so much complaints, but in the WW1 setting this bug I really see as a potential game killer

...what's  your proposal? Shall we re-open another issue-thread or simply upvote some existing postings? 

 

 

40 minutes ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

2. There is no reason for gunner to be riding players PC; he's part of enviroment and can be controlled from server side. Especially since the game expects gunner to be on other machine anyway (in case he is human). If anything this encounter suggedsts gunner is not on client side.

 

hmmm... now when I see it from that perspective that sounds also logical ... ?

damn, thought that could help in analyzing the root cause.... ?

 

But anyhow, finally only 1GS has the chance to find out exactly whats wrong here... 

Edited January 20, 2020 by II./JG1_Etzel

[No.23_Gaylion]

I think we should post in the original report thread, which in the main IL2 area not just FC area. Seawolf posted it and it goes back to 2015 and also has videos of WWII crates invisible.

 

Everyone should be recording anytime they are near the front and should review whenever they suspect invisible planes. Then record the track file with icons on to show the bug. Upload to youtube or wherever and then it post to the thread. The amount of times this is happening should keep bumping the thread up and gathering attention.

 

This one:

 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by US213_Talbot

[JG1_Etzel]

Roger, posted a link to my issue-description and to the mission logs in that thread larner AND I upvoted the 1st posting also.

=> Maybe that upvote should be done by as many others too to increase attention even more...

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

Does anyone know if this happens off line? I'm guessing not but a good place to start, Do we know if this is happening on a server that is a server from someone's home or dose this happen in a paid for server (commercial). Maybe a home server is losing packets more than a commercial server. Or it just not getting along with the main server. Maybe it is the main server that's the problem, it happened in ROF, do they both have the same main server? 

[SeaW0lf]

For those who never uploaded a video to YouTube, Nvidia ShadowPlay is giving me good results with my GTX 1060 6GB. Set it to high quality.