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HappyHaddock

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3 hours ago, Semor76 said:

Really looking forward to a first beta release!

 

Well at some point I am going to have to draw a line under all my tests and experiments and start turning everything I've learned into a useful mod, but as mentioned before it is really only WWI that interests me so I'd set my self a nominal red line for testing of up until the release of the complete IL-2 FC, and then at that point I'd look at all my test data and work out what I'd incorporate/amalgamate based upon how best I could get everything to work with the Arras map.

 

So whilst there will always be room for further improvements and there's always the possibility of bugs and faults to be fixed, my somewhat unconventional ways of working mean that it is doubtful that this will go through anything resembling true alpha and/or beta stages. Given that I am effectively testing and refining values and settings before building the mod, I'd expect my first attempt at a useable download to be pretty close to what others might view as a final release.

 

I know others I have spoken seemed to find it hard to believe I could be generating screenshots like this without first building some sort of mod in order to produce them, but I'll not bore others with the details of my unconventional ways of working.

 

HH

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10 hours ago, HappyHaddock said:

Well of all the time I've put into my tests and experiments trying to work out how to get the best out of the clouds and lighting in this sim, I think the last 48hrs have possibly been some of the most productive. However it is often the way that after banging your head against a brick wall for some time that a break to do something different (in my case going back to plants and ground foliage work for IL-2) is all it take for your own sub-conscious to resolve problems for you.

 

The following may be a bit more GPU intensive than I would have liked and may benefit from a bit of optimisations to see how far I can  reign things in again without spoiling the look, but it is the result of a test to try out a few new thoughts and was still rendering at faster frame rate than my monitor could keep up with...

 

HH

hole in the clouds.jpg

 

Holy Shit that looks amazing!

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1 hour ago, HappyHaddock said:

 

...but I'll not bore others with the details of my unconventional ways of working.

 

HH

Well I for one would be fascinated by hearing about your "unconventional ways of working" but then that would take away from your testing.

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12 hours ago, keeno said:

 

Holy Shit that looks amazing!

 

Kind of you to say so, but given the drop in frame rate I've a lot to do to produce a mod that could deliver results like that for the majority of players....

 

Most folk already reckon they have to turn down graphics settings just to run IL-2, whereas with everything maxed out the stock game will render "heavy" clouds for me at about 130FPS effectively meaning that with a 60Hz monitor  I'm  needlessly wasting about half the processing power of the old/second hand GPU I was recently donated as an upgrade. That last image dropped the frame rate down to about 75FPs by using a lot more GPU.... 

 

I've been running various test to optimise things with my previous experiments, that last image was just a first "raw" "what happens if?" test of a few new ideas that pleasantly surprised me with how visually pleasing it was. The real challenge will be keeping that quality whilst making it run faster.

 

HH

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............. it still looks incredible! :biggrin:

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Well having just downloaded the latest update with the new cloud settings my first impressions are not that great. That said they are just first impressions but I'm just not sure any gain in performance is worth the loss of visual quality as the sharpened edges have given the clouds somewhat of a harsh look.

 

I dare say a bit of work modding various settings and values can bring things back around to the way I like them but I am finding that the tweaks and amendments I had previously got to deliver pleasing skies and clouds no longer give quite the same look so there may have to be a bit more testing to find out how to get the best out of the new clouds. 

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I was honestly dreading this update thinking that they'd make big changes to the cloud shaders. I spent quite a bit of time figuring things out and was about to release a mod when they announced the rework. Thankfully very little has changed on the shader side - not really anything I care about after glancing it over.

 

This is about 10mins of changing things, just going off of memory. All in all about 5 new lines of shader code only changing some lighting values, everything else is still the same including the awful noise texture this game uses. Time to fire up houdini......

338687674_cloudYAAAAAAAAAANOBIGCHANGES.thumb.jpg.b0b0b1925d01c9376e61f78aea5e9c11.jpg 

398976088_CLOUDYAAAAAAAAAAA2.thumb.jpg.2f5c933a0fa923201c9b4f1e5a3d347a.jpg

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We never announced any big re-work of clouds. You guys assume way too much sometimes.

 

Jason

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That's what we are best at Jason. 😁

 

We have our head in the clouds most of the time. 

Edited by Thad
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1 hour ago, LizLemon said:

I was honestly dreading this update thinking that they'd make big changes to the cloud shaders. I spent quite a bit of time figuring things out and was about to release a mod when they announced the rework. Thankfully very little has changed on the shader side - not really anything I care about after glancing it over.

 

having had a quick poke about its not taken too much to bring things largely back to where I wanted them, I had previously added in a bit of sharpening, which now the devs have done this I've simply taken it all back out again. If truth be told I'd still like to take a fraction more out but nothing major.

 

Edited by HappyHaddock

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Hi Haddock,

 

I can't play without your wildflowers mod for RoF. That one is a keeper and it looks like that mod was only the tip of the iceberg going by this thread. One question for you, can your adjustments do anything to improve the jaggy appearance of aircraft when flying "against" the clouds? 

 

(As seen by the distant Camels here)

 

cloud test.jpg

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Ace_Pilto said:

Hi Haddock,

 

I can't play without your wildflowers mod for RoF. That one is a keeper and it looks like that mod was only the tip of the iceberg going by this thread. One question for you, can your adjustments do anything to improve the jaggy appearance of aircraft when flying "against" the clouds? 

 

 

 

 

I've not been able to address the root cause of this and I'm told that these aliasing issues would require a rewrite of much of the shaders and tone mapper. However if your GPU can handle it then running a high level of DSR and downscaling higher resolution images works around it to some extent by forcing the game engine to use a higher resolution outline around the aircraft.

 

 

 

Edited by HappyHaddock
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The jaggy cloud appearance is caused by the clouds being rendered at half resolution and the mask used for drawing the planes on the clouds being the same. There was a 3dmigoto fix but it probably doesnt work now.

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Well they say life is full of surprises and this sim has just thrown up another new surprise regarding an "old problem"... I'm not sure I've learned anything from it, if anything it has knocked back what little understanding I thought I had of this problem. I previously thought the concentric rings that would occasionally appear in the clouds were centered around the apex of the sky dome and caused by looking up at the clouds when illuminated by a low angle of incident light typical of early morning or late evening;

 

This was taken from above the clouds at mid-day which not only blows out of the water the notion that it is cause by a low angle of incident light, but it shows intersecting series of these concentric rings centred around different points, not just the one set of rings at the apex of the skydome!

 

EDIT: I can't be sure but my impression is that these concentric rings have become much more pronounced and noticed more often since that last update and I'm wondering if the changes the devs made to the clouds may have unintentionally exaggerated this problem?... yet without knowing the cause it is impossible to say for sure.

 

cloud rings.jpg

Edited by HappyHaddock

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3 hours ago, HappyHaddock said:

Well they say life is full of surprises and this sim has just thrown up another new surprise regarding an "old problem"... I'm not sure I've learned anything from it, if anything it has knocked back what little understanding I thought I had of this problem. I previously thought the concentric rings that would occasionally appear in the clouds were centered around the apex of the sky dome and caused by looking up at the clouds when illuminated by a low angle of incident light typical of early morning or late evening;

 

This was taken from above the clouds at mid-day which not only blows out of the water the notion that it is cause by a low angle of incident light, but it shows intersecting series of these concentric rings centred around different points, not just the one set of rings at the apex of the skydome!

 

EDIT: I can't be sure but my impression is that these concentric rings have become much more pronounced and noticed more often since that last update and I'm wondering if the changes the devs made to the clouds may have unintentionally exaggerated this problem?... yet without knowing the cause it is impossible to say for sure.

 

 

 

What you are seeing is alliasing, its just an optical illusion/low sampling issue. Nothing more.

zone.gif.f19a6f30dedc13de2206e9abf19c0ab2.gif

 

The rings arent centered around the skydome, its "centered" at the camera location.

1635949730_CLOUDSAMPLING.thumb.png.7bbcc97b719c50b095ba3f5002aa39bc.pngiterations.thumb.png.fa6978e28b9b31a2086c43d066f196b1.png

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4 minutes ago, LizLemon said:

 

What you are seeing is alliasing, its just an optical illusion/low sampling issue. Nothing more.

 

4 minutes ago, LizLemon said:

The rings arent centered around the skydome, its "centered" at the camera location.

 

Cheers for the info, I've seen aliasing cause various problems but I wouldn't have thought there was anything uniform or regular enough about clouds to set up such a clear effect, I tend to associate aliasing problems (optical or audio) with some sort of regularly repeating input being sampled and output at a frequency that is somehow mismatched with the original input leading to pseudo-interference patterns.

 

Perhaps I'll have to play around a lot more with the cloud sample rates and see what impact this has on these ripple effects as by default I run a sample rate of 1024 which is much higher than the devs standard which I believe got lowered further to just 64 in the latest update.

 

As for the distinction between the centre of the sky dome and the camera location they are more or less synonymous as the sky dome pretty much centres around the camera/player such that however much you "chase" it you never actually get closer to the edge of the skydome as it moves with you.

 

 

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