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Novice-Flyer

Does IL-2 GB need to return to the Eastern Front?

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Just for the record I have a real dislike for the Spitfire, prefer the Hurricane.

 

The issue with most flight games is the development team will in almost all cases go with what they think is the most popular, aircraft and conflict, because we are always told to believe they are the only ones that can actually make a profit or at best at least cover the outlay.

 

With 'Forgotten Battles' we finally got a look at some other things for once, we found out that far from what we always believed, there were actually pilots who could fight the mighty with such things as the Brewster and win, like the P-39 with the Russians they did not fall comfortably into the popular myth of being useless.  We also found that Russia and Germany were not the only combatant nations out there, Finland and Romania had practically been in a permanent state of war with their larger neighbour for years, possibly why Germany found them agreeable in some part to their grand plan, they were not exactly willing allies more it came from necessity, none the less we are where we are.

 

Yes the title gave us even further improvements to the genre than had come before in the earlier iteration of the IL-2 brand and certainly many more aircraft but where it came through really for me was that it took on the unknown or little known depending on your aviation knowledge, finally I could fly those Finnish Hurricanes and Brewsters while escorting Blenheims , things I had countless scale models of in those markings I could now reenact their conflicts as well sat in the cockpit, amazing.  How about escorting Romanian He-111s with your Romanian 109, even more importanly here was another nation using yet more British exports I had in model form and markings.

 

Another great addition to the series was you had the different nationalities and their squadrons, something sadly lacking in this modern high fidelity version as is the game play of the old.

 

Returning this series back to its begginings at some point allows further development of the plane types used in that vast theater to further build upon what we already have without necessarily developing new modules as we already have three maps as it stands, those very aircraft could provide the base for Spain and China because the I-16, I-15, and Tupolev SB fought in both, amongst others, so we are talking about gradual development of new areas rather than a complete new title from scratch, effectively following FB in that respect.

 

Why Spain and China in particular?  Well the Germans and Japanese both used these conflicts to develop the weapons and tactics that would allow both nations to subjugate most of their respective regions.  When you think of Spain all the types that were to become legend with the Luftwaffe trialed their early versions there, 109, He-111, Ju-87 and Ju-52 spring readily to mind as some of the types in theatre, let us not forget Hs-123, comes in handy for Russia also.  China less so maybe but besides the Soviet designs already mentioned, P-36, H-75 (version of P-36 or the other way around with spatted undercarriage) and P-40, maybe a Martin B-10 bomber, add in the Japanese types for China and we see it is not all about rickety decades old designs but the very stuff that would fight through one of the largest conflicts the world has ever witnessed.


Do I want to go and fly in Pacific region, not really, especially not for a one hit wonder as Midway, however, what I do want is to keep this genre alive as that opens up all sorts of possibilities for all of us to at least find something to our own taste.  Would carrier ops be interesting, yes of course, not to mention the technical challenge of seeing these guys actually do it, however, you need to generate the interest of the player base so if you are to go to the area then at least make it more diverse, including a larger land mass with less sea would give more game play options, add your own favourite, New Guinea maybe for me, land and sea bases give variety for operations and types, Midway could be a later addition.

 

Incidentally these titles are made in Russia by a predominantly Russian team and most likely primarily purchased by their fellow countrymen because of the very fact they portray conflict in that region, that might also have something to do with the popularity of the title as well because we as aviation enthusiast also like the experience of something different from our own national experience of those times, just a thought.

 

Anyway, I have waffled too much already, but again to the OP a resounding yes.

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.:biggrin:

Edited by Missionbug
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Maybe at some point there will be the luxury of going for lesser known conflicts. It just makes way more sense to keep the current growth going by going for the more popular scenarios. The die hard fans will always buy everything that is on offer, the real win is to draw in new players and expand the base. There's plenty of people in our squad who don't play GB, but are very interested in BoBp. Even some who usually don't play flightsims are interested in this expansion.

 

There is no arguing the popularity of the western front, the recognition factor is just so much higher for everything involved.

 

I know this isn't a popular view, but I strongly believe the Pacific would have stunted GB's growth. It's arguably better then most other 'unknown' scenarios but still, nowhere near the potential of the western front.

 

Growing the game with the most popular scenario creates the opportunity for devoting resources, perhaps even a separate team, to other scenarios down the road.

Edited by Windmills
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On 10/12/2018 at 3:57 AM, SCG_DR1FT3R said:

scrap the whole project, and to redo the BOB theatre in the GB series of the current and modern il2 series.

Hello there,

Yes, you are correct I did misinterpret Fenris's point, but scrapping the Dover series and redoing it in IL-2 GB is not going to happen. I see implementing Cliffs of Dover into IL-2 GB more likely than implementing into it. Here's why:

Since 2013 the Team Fusion group has been working hard at improving the game, as well as adding aircraft. Fact is that most of the people there only do the work during their spare time. They have the future of this game well planned. So if right now development for CoD to all of a sudden be shut down and re branded into BoX, the team would say " You mean, we did all of that for nothing!" Cliffs of Dover is a great game, yes there are game issues, but in a few months Dec-Feb 2019 they will be corrected/fixed and the game will be restored to it's envisioned glory. It's currently in it's waning days of having bugs and technical issues, as after the release of TF 5.0, it will be more liked by the IL-2 community. For now it's the only IL-2 game that officially has the Battle of Britain, clickable cockpits, and will be the first to officially cover the Mediterranean Theater in WW2. If you buy a Dover series product then the money goes to TFS and 1CGS as well.

 

The aircraft selection for the 2 games is very different: Cod will have pretty much all aircraft that saw action in the Battle Britain, while if BoX did it then there would only 10 aircraft.

Here would be the list:

 

RAF                                             Germany

Spitfire Ia                                   Bf 109E-4

Hurricane                                  Bf 110C-4

Beaufighter                               He 111H-2

Blenhiem Mk.IV                       Ju-88A-1

Collector                                   Ju-87B-2

Wellington IC

 

You see, IL-2 GB will contain "leftover planes", planes that don't fit into the Battle pack due to them being able to produce 10 flyable aircraft. The leftover planes are then added as collectors. Cliffs of Dover does not have leftover planes! They will include almost all planes that saw action in the theaters that are covered in the game.

 

I'm starting to believe that people consider IL-2 Great Battles as the "god" of the IL-2 series. This I understand as it has realistic crashes, flight dynamics and models, highly detailed maps, VR, and graphics, but that's pretty much it imho. In the game you can't get out when the plane is on the ground burning, or on the water, has hardly any radio comms, no drop tanks yet, the pilot sinks like a stone and dies when entering the water, even rivers and lakes! For some of these things, it was acceptable when there was BOS and BOM, but after the release of BOK, it's starting to become embarrassing that they're not in the game yet. With BOK, if a pilot went out to sink ships, wouldn't he be equipped with a life jacket? The He-111H-6 doesn't have torpedoes, despite there is an area that contains ships that can be attacked.

 

I believe that non of the 3 IL-2 games are the god of the series, but I believe the closest one to that spot is IL-2 1946 because

1. There is 300+ aircraft, 41+ maps. This game gets continually updated by Team Daidalos and MOD groups.

2. A lot of content that's mentioned above has been in that game since the start. Comparing IL-2 1946 to Cliffs of Dover, you see many similarities. Comparing the 2 to BoX, there isn't much to compare, but there is many similarities with RoF and BoX. Traditionally IL-2 has been made by 1C Maddox, but recently by 777 Studios. It's great because of that there's great realism, VR, graphics, playable Tanks and WWI aircraft, but regarding the content (minus aircraft and theaters not made/covered yet like Pacific, Finnish front, clickable cockpits, etc) that's not in GB yet, but has been in IL-2 1946 before game development began of BoX began, makes 1946 slightly better.

 

Getting back, IL-2 Cliffs of Dover will produce theaters that happened in WW2, while IL-2 Great Battles will cover WWI, WWII, Tank battles, possibly the Korean War. Both games will have VR, realistic tree collisions, etc. Both games will have the same aircraft like Bf 109, used in MTO and Eastern Front, but will not contain the same battles like Battle of Britain, Siege of Malta, etc. Jason said in 2016 that the Battle of Britain will not be in BoX, and efforts are now concentrated on BoBP and then the Pacific. Once the Pacific Theater is done and aircraft that also fought there like the B-17, B-24, etc. are done, then efforts will shift back to Europe to finish off World War 2. If there is any interest in doing a battle in the Mediterranean Theater that the Dover series didn't do, and fans are interested, then it will probably be done.

 

Let's not focus on axing CoD, instead let's focus on the future of both games which will have very bright futures and will be the leading games of the IL-2 series.

Thank you for reading.

 

Edited by Novice-Flyer

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On 10/9/2018 at 10:52 AM, Novice-Flyer said:

The developers of this fantastic game have released Battle of Stalingrad, Moscow, and Kuban, ranging from 1941-43, with a total of 34 aircraft (likely to increase to 36 with the Po-2/U-2 and the Li-2). Efforts are now focused on the Western Front 44-45 with Battle of Bodenplatte, and probably Berlin, as well as producing WWI and Tank simulations; following this, they will go to the Pacific. So, do the devs need to return to the Eastern Front?

I think they do because there are several important battles that are covered in IL-2 1946 that still need to be covered in this game.

Battles I think need to be done are:

Smolensk 1941/43

Finland- Winter War, Continuation and Siege of Leningrad ( There is currently a 3rd party team working on the map. Link is here https://www.ler3.fi/karelia.html).

1944 Battle, eg. Hungary.

 

If they made these then we would also see many aircraft not currently in the game like the Hurricane, I-153, G.50, SB-2, Tu-2, TB-3, Pe-2 1944, Yak 3, Morane 406, etc. Probably some aircraft that were used in the Battle Smolensk 1941 were phased out/used in limited numbers during the Battle of Moscow due to them being obsolete to the enemy planes, and there were aircraft that mainly fought on the Finnish Front and not used anywhere else in great numbers.

So if the devs just made an Eastern, Western, and Pacific Trilogy then there would just be over 30+ aircraft per trilogy, but in the future, if they made a few more battles on the Eastern front of WW2 then not only would we see more aircraft than we currently have, but would also see a progression of aircraft that were used shortly after the commencement of Operation Barbarossa, to the closing years/months of World War 2. For example the devs have shown us the progression of the Me 109 from the E model from 1941 to the K model in the closing months of the war. So, yeah, I believe that there is much more in the Eastern Front that needs to be covered than simply Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kuban.

 

Unless the Pacific gets delayed again, then I don't see the devs returning to the Eastern Front anytime soon; if they do then the maps and aircraft will most likely be made by 3rd party teams.

 

Note: Based on the fact that a team is currently working on the Finland map, then this pretty much solidifies that Cliffs of Dover will not cover the Finnish Front.

 

Wow, I thought I was long winded/penned in these forums. You’re making my posts look like Cliffs Notes by comparison.

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Didn't the guy who created "Forgotten Battles" decide to simulate that obscure battle over England in his updated game engine?  So odd that he didn't simulate the Spanish Civil War.  If only he had known how popular it is!

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3 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Didn't the guy who created "Forgotten Battles" decide to simulate that obscure battle over England in his updated game engine?  So odd that he didn't simulate the Spanish Civil War.  If only he had known how popular it is!

 I was really hoping to model operations during the Italian Ethiopian campaign.............

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Personally I would like a recreation of the ubizoo arguments between Skychimp and BaldieJr, regarding whether or not Burma was a major theatre of operations.  Now THAT was combat!

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1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

Ah yes CloD.  Big name battle + miserable gameplay = financial disaster and death of company

 

lol

 

That is arrant nonsense.  Miserable gameplay had nothing to do with it.  There was no way to tell if the gameplay was miserable, because you could not play the game.

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Where is Oleg anyway - dude owes me $50 for that PoS that wouldn’t even load and run.

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27 minutes ago, Godspeed said:

AI would be nice and then Italy airwar.

 

Might as well be asking for Battle of Hoth 

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8 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Where is Oleg anyway - dude owes me $50 for that PoS that wouldn’t even load and run.

 

 

oleg powers up.jpg

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Personally, I have no interest in a return to the Eastern Front. I think three games covered it quite well. What I would love to see is a game set in the Pacific (naturally), or the Med (which looks like CloD territory). 

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24 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

As MacArthur would say, "Return?  Hell, I ain't even left it yet!"

MacArthur said that?

You sure you're not getting that confused with "Retreat Hell" Motto of 2/5 Marines.

"Retreat, Hell!, we just got here!"  Major Lloyd W. Williams

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I still think North Africa needs a visit with a map that extends to include Sicily/Malta and Tunisia, Egypt.

You have all the land based battles but also the sea war with convoys to Malta, Tunisia and Alexandria.

The terrain lends itself to a nice fast map with relative lack of settlements.

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No, not now anyways. There are soooo many different planes and theaters to cover yet I think for what we have now he eastern front is playable as it is. Once the western theaters, the pacific and who knows what else comes down the pipeline then yeah, wouldn’t hurt once others have played out if they came out with another pack to the eastern front for an expansion. But for now and the near future, there is just so much else for the studio and devs and to concentrate and look forward to working on (and thereby expanding their fan base which equals profits which is of course good for all of us in so many ways), I don’t think it’s necessary at this point.

 

Like Battle of Britain, North Africa, etc., etc.

Edited by BornToBattle

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Still have my fingers crossed for the Pacific to follow Bodenplatte.

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On 10/17/2018 at 3:56 PM, Danziger said:

DO NOT BUY FROM BLACK/GREY MARKET SELLERS.

+1

 

And don’t shop, adopt!

16 minutes ago, dburne said:

Still have my fingers crossed for the Pacific to follow Bodenplatte.

Same. Ahhh...I remember the old CFS2 days. Trying to mod it to keep it worthy of taking up hard drive space, I finally gave up of course. Can’t wait for the Pacific. Long overdue for someone to do the Pacific serious justice. 

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42 minutes ago, Georgio said:

I still think North Africa needs a visit with a map that extends to include Sicily/Malta and Tunisia, Egypt.

You have all the land based battles but also the sea war with convoys to Malta, Tunisia and Alexandria.

The terrain lends itself to a nice fast map with relative lack of settlements.

 

thats imposible to have, what you ask for is 2000km x 1000km map, il-2 1946 has map like that and its scaled down to 1/2 scale to be playable and fit to 1000km limits, smaller size multiple maps of that area maybe but all that in one map in this game i dont expect

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25 minutes ago, BornToBattle said:

No, not now anyways. There are soooo many different planes and theaters to cover yet I think for what we have now he eastern front is playable as it is. 

 

 

It is playable, but there is an abrupt stop.  1945 is not necessary, except maybe in the form of a map, but a 1944 Russian plane set is necessary to finish the job and make the eastern front playable start to finish.  

 

After that it becomes a matter of do you as an individual really care about that.  If you don't then sure, anything western front or Pacific is going to be preferable. 

 

As always the problem is time and money.  1C does not have an unlimited supply of either, so they have to make stuff that sells.  If Bodenplatte catches on with western, especially American audiences, then maybe the cash infusion will be sufficient to fund more.  If it doesn't pull in American customers and sales lag because now the home (Russian) audience is turned off then we might see a shift back east.

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2 hours ago, dburne said:

Still have my fingers crossed for the Pacific to follow Bodenplatte.

 

As much as I would like it, I don’t believe that will happen.  

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As a German Pilot I am happy with BoBP and would be satisfied with anything that does 1944 in Europe, east or west.  But that is my selfish PoV.

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On 10/14/2018 at 5:45 PM, Missionbug said:

The issue with most flight games is the development team will in almost all cases go with what they think is the most popular, aircraft and conflict,

 

This is what happened with this game , distributing what the most verbal part of community want.

8 hours ago, dburne said:

Still have my fingers crossed for the Pacific to follow Bodenplatte.

 

6 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

As much as I would like it, I don’t believe that will happen.  

 

After the announcement of Tank Crew and FC and no mention of PTO at all , I am pretty sure we aint gonna get it. Hope I am wrong, but to me this is nothing but a dogfight game atm.

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PTO was already announced - Jason isn’t going to keep re-announcing it. The thread on the main page clearly states delayed, NOT CANCELED. Thus unless a different announcement is made - PTO remains the plan.

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Doesn’t mean it can’t change - just that so far it hasn’t.  

 

Fingers crossed.

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On 10/14/2018 at 4:45 PM, Missionbug said:

Just for the record I have a real dislike for the Spitfire, prefer the Hurricane.

 

What is this sacrilege you speak of ;)

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55 minutes ago, =FEW=Herne said:

 

What is this sacrilege you speak of ;)

 

:good:

 

Spit is all I have been flying the last several months.

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PTO was never my thing, but there can be no doubt, that it is definitely what was promised (ok “ promised” is not the right word here, but you get the idea) so of course we should go to the Pacific next. We can dream of many other things for the future, but we should neither expect nor hope for a sudden change of plans. The best thing for the development of this sim right now is to stay on schedule. 

Instead we should focus our discussion on how the Pacific title(s) can not just live up to but surpass the sims that have come before.

Edited by Finkeren

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It was definitely a shocker when the focus of the game switched to Bodenplatte and 1945.

Prior to that the tone for the twelve months before was, please buy the Kuban so we can get to the Pacific next.  There wasn't even an indication that the Pacific had been dropped.  Right up the last day and the eve of the "Very Special Announcement" for the next chapter.  I was sitting there, credit card in one hand and pecking away at the F5 button with the other.  Right up to the last second.  Then the announcement appeared and it was not the Pacific at all, but instead a who's-who of uberplanes from the Warclouds server circa 2008.  I thought it was a prank! 

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to answer OPs question and excuse me if that gets a bit long: No. Thanks for your attention.

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I don't  think they will cancel the PTO. It would be a very clumsy business decision. It is an absolute must to open that  road.

Starting this path opens so many possibilities that it will be the decisive step forward to a new quality level. Honestly, I do not think for a single second that the Devs could make such an unforgivable mistake. Furthermore, American love the PTO, probably more than the ETO.

The new surprise has to be something new, such a pack of maps or sth like that.

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Suspect that the Japanese information sourcing must be difficult, but I would pay up front for some future R&D.

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On 10/20/2018 at 4:49 AM, PA_Spartan- said:

I don't  think they will cancel the PTO. It would be a very clumsy business decision. It is an absolute must to open that  road.

Starting this path opens so many possibilities that it will be the decisive step forward to a new quality level. Honestly, I do not think for a single second that the Devs could make such an unforgivable mistake. Furthermore, American love the PTO, probably more than the ETO.

The new surprise has to be something new, such a pack of maps or sth like that.

 

Oh yeah baby!

:good:

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If it's ENTIRELY new I'd guess Korea and a partner will be doing the aircraft models in parallel with PTO.................

 

but I've been  ENTIRELY wrong in these forum prognostications before.

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