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Novice-Flyer

Does IL-2 GB need to return to the Eastern Front?

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The developers of this fantastic game have released Battle of Stalingrad, Moscow, and Kuban, ranging from 1941-43, with a total of 34 aircraft (likely to increase to 36 with the Po-2/U-2 and the Li-2). Efforts are now focused on the Western Front 44-45 with Battle of Bodenplatte, and probably Berlin, as well as producing WWI and Tank simulations; following this, they will go to the Pacific. So, do the devs need to return to the Eastern Front?

I think they do because there are several important battles that are covered in IL-2 1946 that still need to be covered in this game.

Battles I think need to be done are:

Smolensk 1941/43

Finland- Winter War, Continuation and Siege of Leningrad ( There is currently a 3rd party team working on the map. Link is here https://www.ler3.fi/karelia.html).

1944 Battle, eg. Hungary.

 

If they made these then we would also see many aircraft not currently in the game like the Hurricane, I-153, G.50, SB-2, Tu-2, TB-3, Pe-2 1944, Yak 3, Morane 406, etc. Probably some aircraft that were used in the Battle Smolensk 1941 were phased out/used in limited numbers during the Battle of Moscow due to them being obsolete to the enemy planes, and there were aircraft that mainly fought on the Finnish Front and not used anywhere else in great numbers.

So if the devs just made an Eastern, Western, and Pacific Trilogy then there would just be over 30+ aircraft per trilogy, but in the future, if they made a few more battles on the Eastern front of WW2 then not only would we see more aircraft than we currently have, but would also see a progression of aircraft that were used shortly after the commencement of Operation Barbarossa, to the closing years/months of World War 2. For example the devs have shown us the progression of the Me 109 from the E model from 1941 to the K model in the closing months of the war. So, yeah, I believe that there is much more in the Eastern Front that needs to be covered than simply Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kuban.

 

Unless the Pacific gets delayed again, then I don't see the devs returning to the Eastern Front anytime soon; if they do then the maps and aircraft will most likely be made by 3rd party teams.

 

Note: Based on the fact that a team is currently working on the Finland map, then this pretty much solidifies that Cliffs of Dover will not cover the Finnish Front.

Edited by Novice-Flyer
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In a word, no. I’m all for a return to the East in a few years but their direction for filling out other theaters is both good for game play and income streams. (Not to mention expanding the potential playerbase)

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf
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I would really like to see the Eastern Front getting complete, with at least a couple expansions, one early on (the planeset for the Finnish guys making the Leningrad map looks really good) and the other a late one covering the late Soviet planes, and some missing late German planes we didn't get in BoBP (Bf 109 G-10, Fw 190 A-9, etc).

 

However I do understand the sim will head in a new direction, like the Pacific after BoBP and i'm interested in that as well, and many people are expecting it. After X number of Pacific expansions there should be room for other Western Front ones (Italy invasion?).

So I think the best way to complete the Eastern Front without getting in the way of the other theaters is imho with the 3rd party creators of the Po-2 and Li-2, if they suceed in these two initial planes.

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard
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FYI, a possible return to the Eastern front will most likely take place after the Pacific

Edited by Novice-Flyer
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Money and lots of audience might be in West Front, Spitfires, P-51s, Pacific but theres still half of East Front to cover. 1941 and post autumn of 1943 onwards are still largely uncovered(and some very common planes from our current time line missing) so yes, absolutely they should. As noticed, there are even several Allied aircraft shared with Mediterranean and Western fronts. What they might do is build a flying map around the highly detailed tank battle map of Kursk that is being developed.

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11 minutes ago, Novice-Flyer said:

FYI, a possible return to the Eastern front will most likely take place after the Pacific

 

Are you just typing random words now?

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6 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Are you just typing random words now?

FYI: For your Information. Never heard of that acronym before?

Edited by Novice-Flyer
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while I would like to see a return to the Eastern front, there is not all that much left that would be different. The air war in the east basically shut down after 1943. The Yak-1b was not replaced until mid-44 and the La5-fn until late 44. Bagration 44 would be interesting, but the map would be basically like the Moscow map. The battles in the Ukraine 43-44 would not look that different from the western Stalingrad map.

 

I am sure we will be able to use the Kursk Tank Crew map to simulate part of the Kursk air battles.

 

The only new map that could be interesting would be the berlin-Oder front (feb.-april 45) since most of the german planes will have been done for BOBP.

I would personally rather see Korea 1950-53 or the PTO.

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Not in the near future imo. I'm tired of russian aircraft and I'm happy to see something new with Bodenplatte. After Bodenplatte I hope for the Pacific or another western expansion.

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6 minutes ago, Sgt_Joch said:

The only new map that could be interesting would be the berlin-Oder front (feb.-april 45) since most of the german planes will have been done for BOBP.

I like your idea for Berlin Sgt_Joch. The German planes will probably be: He 162, Ta 152, Me 163. Allied: Yak 9, La-7, IL-10, Spitfire late models, allied bombers like B-24,17, and 26 as AI.

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23 minutes ago, Novice-Flyer said:

FYI: For your Information. Never heard of that acronym before?

 

FYI, I wasn’t referring to your “FYI”

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't mind where they go next, it's been a wonderful journey so far. For sure there are many places that we have been in the original IL2 series that would be wonderful to re-visit in this level of detail, and some places that have never really been done ever, but I still get a great kick out of, say, flying a LaGG-3 on the Stalingrad map and will continue to do so regardless of what comes along next.

 

Whatever they choose to do, I'm sure they will do it justice.

 

I seem to remember Jason say that Yak-9's and Yak-3 would be done, but whether that's as part of new map or just collector planes I don't recall? All part of the fun in waiting to see :)

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Oh look, it's another one of those topics. 

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2 hours ago, GarandM1 said:

Don't care as long as we get the Pacific first.

I cannot agree more. The Pacific is a must now. It opens another branch of the tree.

Edited by PA_Spartan-
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I would like to see a return to the East in good time. It would be nice to have a more complete Soviet plane set to use. What we have now is serviceable but seems somewhat skeletal. Having more powerful fighters like the Yak 9's and some bombers capable of carrying a payload similar to that of the Germans would be nice, or maybe even a PE-3 bomber interceptor/heavy fighter would be cool. Some of the missing German planes could be added in too, though from what I can find the roster is mostly full for them.

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I think Northern front, Finland and Kursk , among many other theaters can make a future income as map + a few planes. Many planes and map can be added if developers are free for work, without a huge plane set that must be done. I think it is possible they keep expanding Eastern front

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Dead horse of a thread - but yes.

That’s the plausible scenario.

 

 

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I think the east is well covered already for now. My biggest wish is for a North Africa/Mediterranean campaign. Even more than the Pacific.

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26 minutes ago, pfrances said:

My biggest wish is for a North Africa/Mediterranean campaign

That is being covered by Cliffs of Dover

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IMHO it does.  It needs 1944.  Bagration would do nicely.  We already have the German planes, but we do not have 1944 Russian types.  No need for a 1945 as there are not really new types involved, at least that I am aware of.

 

For PWCG I intend to allow the German pilot to transition from east to west.  Not sure what to do with Allied pilots.  By default PWCG lets you transfer from Russian to American or British (remember, PWCG is originally WWI and this did happen) but for WWII that is kind of nonsensical.  That leaves Russian players with this big hole at the end of the war.

 

As @LuseKofte points out, once we get some Russian 1944 types it is really more of a map issue than a plane issue.

Edited by PatrickAWlson
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I for one would love to see the sim return to the GPW - eventually. I maintain, that it is by far the best setting for a WW2 combat flight sim, because it makes the most of the capabilities of current technology while not having to deal too much with some of the genre’s inherent limitations (low altitude combat, few large bombers, no need for big formations with dozens of aircraft, no need to model transsonic flight, few large towns and cities etc.)

 

However, now that the sim has moved away from the Eastern Front, I think it would be wise to stay away from it for next couple of titles. BoBP was ostensibly made to pave the way for the Pacific, so I expect that’s still where we’re heading (I do hope they revise their plans of a title set at Okinawa - that’s just a very poor setting for a combat flight sim)

 

When/if we do return to the steppes, I would hope for an early war title, preferably a Karelian map with the Finns making up the Axis side. That would allow for a lot of interesting aircraft that haven’t yet been modeled in the sim (I-153, Su-2, Hurricane, SB-2M, B-238, Fiat G.50, M.S. 406, Blenheim) as well as some older versions of existing models, plus there would be lots of use for some of the existing 1941-42 models. A 1944 title (Bagration, Kurland or others) will just mean new versions of designs that we already have several versions of in the sim (with the exception of maybe the Tu-2) and it would be hard to fill out a plane set for the Axis side, that doesn’t overlap with what’s already in BoBP.

Edited by Finkeren
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Yes Many say they do not like Eastern Front , yet they fly at altitudes historically correct for the eastern front. Eastern Front was home for ground attack airplanes , ground support and short distance flying. All features liked by people here. So I agree with Finkern. Eastern front is a real good theatre for air war. Africa is good too, but lets face it desert is just as treading as Russian steppe in the long run. We can easily fall into the new plane theatre pit, and never get satisfied. I am more into the small corrections and improvements done on each patch. At some point this game will be perfected to such a degree that we never will see anything like it again. I truly believe this sim will be much better if it got improved more than expand. 

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If the devs go directly to the Pacific after BOBP, then do 2-3 installments in that theater we might be looking at possibly 2025 or later as a timeframe. Throw in maybe one more ETO release and it might be the end of the next decade before a possible return to the Eastern front. I and others here could well be long gone by then. Not to mention waning interest in the series as a whole after that many years, cast doubts on a return to the East.

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Would love though to see the plane set on the East fill out a bit.  Early war types for the VVS and also for the Finns (Brewster Buffalo and Hurricane).  The Med Would be a hoot too especially with small to Medium Bomber types but then there is the Pacific and I think this done well will be great.  Tactical like the East but with Ocean and Ships.  With Island hopping too.  Then there is Far East of which I don't know much of but know of the Flying Tigers and Chinese efforts. 

 

Korea could bring us late WW2 VVS types for which map makers could work with in late WW2 Eastern Front areas like Hungary, Romania, Poland through to Berlin.  I think the Med though through Italy and the Adriatic Sea would be glorious to fly and die.  If the CloD team is doing it I hope they are using 1C tech instead of the CloD tech for it.

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At least some of the heart of the series will always be with the Eastern Front (IL-2 is in the name after all :)). I think, and this thread is evidence enough, that many are looking to broader horizons and only then would it be wise to return to the East.

 

IMHO I think it should be one of the end game scenarios. Berlin and the battles leading up to it seem like a logical choice to me. There's great interest in that aircraft set and plenty of air combat despite what some may say. I'm sure it could be finagled for the German side while greatly expanding into some notable types for the Russians.

 

But before that happens, the Pacific, more Western/Italy type scenarios would be appreciated by quite a few.

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47 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

I think it will be a simplified Korea next with a focus on fighters and fighter-bombers.  

I really hope you are wrong. Going straight to Korea would be a huge mistake imo.

 

I wouldn't mind it as a side project like tank crew or flying circus though, just not a main expansion like Bodenplatte.

Edited by Legioneod
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2 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

IMHO I think it should be one of the end game scenarios...

 

Yep - like when they're getting tired of revenue - booom!

OK back to what I was doing.

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4 hours ago, Legioneod said:

I really hope you are wrong. Going straight to Korea would be a huge mistake imo.

 

Im not that keen on the idea either, but I think they will choose that as the cheapest option.  No carriers or bombers though.  Essentially a repeat of the Bodenplatte formula.  

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I'd swear I can remember Jason saying that he was going to be glad to be getting away from the Eastern Front. I think he may have had enough. If they did, though, let it be the Russian attack on the Japanese in Manchuria in the last weeks of the war. Maybe it's one way that we'll get Japanese planes in here. 

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7 hours ago, LuseKofte said:

I truly believe this sim will be much better if it got improved more than expand. 

 

Exactly - well said.

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Yes, they should return to eastern front right after Bodenplatte. Even though it would be easy money for the devs to release maps of Battle of the Coral Sea (Center) and Battle of Midway (outskirts) by tuning the colour of the wide open sea.  😀 (IIRC there was a plain sea "map" in Pacific Fighters)

 

Well, maybe a early Dutch East India map with Fokker D.XXI, P-36's, Brewster Buffalo's and Hurricanes if it is absolutely necessary to go to Pacific direction.  🙂

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11 hours ago, Novice-Flyer said:

FYI: For your Information. Never heard of that acronym before?

 

FYI, I think “IMO” would have been better.

 

Unless Jason or another of the devs has said “a possible return to the Eastern front will most likely take place after the Pacific“. Because unless they’ve said that, then your post was more of an opinion than a fact.

Edited by Pb_Cybermat47

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I'm already suspecting that some people are going to tell me what a stupid idea but...

 

We are getting Tank Crew-Clash at Prokhorovka.  I thought I read that this will include a 100k x 100k map.  Well, what if they made that map somewhat bigger to make it more conducive to air operations(as big as other maps in BoX) and threw in maybe 2 or 3 new 1943 airplanes, and created "Il-2: Battle of Kursk".  It would be a bit more Eastern Front, which a lot of people don't want to see new efforts directed towards, but it would have significant overlap with Tank Crew already being developed, and wouldn't need to have the normal allotment of new planes that a typical module has because we already have a lot of the major planes that were there.   So in that sense,  if they were inclined to go back to the Eastern Front, they could make a genuine BoX module with less work required than usual BoX modules, and it wouldn't have to retail at the usual cost either.  Tank Crew would just operate on the same map.  Dumb idea?

 

 

Edited by SeaSerpent
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