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The Future Of Il-2 Stalingrad?

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There are still two fundamental aspects of BOX that make the SP experience less than it could be; the anachronistic and joyless FMB, and the anemic QMB. The FMB might never be improved, so be it,  but to bring the QMB up a notch or two would reeeeally put the cherry on the cake.

 

This is a fantastic(!) flightsim, but it still feels a bit empty as far as player design input goes.

 

Yeah I spend absolutely 0 time in the QMB, unless I am just testing a plane after setting up controls for it. Other than that, like for combat I do not. And no way could I tackle the full Mission Editor, afraid that one is beyond the scope of my abilities.

 

However, I spent a lot of time in the stock campaign, and then a couple of the scripted campaigns, and now am very engrossed in a PWCG campaign so that is keeping me busy. And so looking forward to the new Career upcoming. Between PWCG and this new Career, I will have plenty to keep me busy as a SP guy for quite some time.

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There are some nice offerings from Virpil and VKB for high end sticks. I am especially fond of the Virpil stick, absolutely love mine, and they are showing renderings of an upcoming throttle as well.

 

Unfortunately there are no models with FFB (IIRC). In my mind I would expect a 'top brand' to develop a top notch FFB stick. It isn't happening for some reason. 

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If I've learned anything during my years on flight sim forums it is that snobbery and arrogance isn't simply an American trait. It's universal. Just as it is having a preference for what is familiar.

 

I too find myself feeling sheepish because the P-51 is by far and away my favorite WWII era fighter, just as the B-17 remains my favorite bomber. So much history. So many accomplishments in their careers. There wasn't an Air Force anyway in the world in 43-44 that didn't want the abilities in their own aircraft that these two planes processed.

 

I take a lot of the negative comments about the U.S. effort in WWII that I read here with a grain of salt. While there are some truly well versed people who can throw out a lot of stats, there aren't that many critical thinkers who can separate fact from opinion. Myself included. We know what we read and then we base our opinions on what we perceive as the truth.

 

I find it laughable when the term 'Muricans gets tossed out in posts here. As if there could be a single American "type" considering the multi cultural country we are. If anyone bases their opinions on a foreign land because of posts on a flight sim web page, then I'm fairly certain snobbery and arrogance with a touch of ignorance thrown in, are a common trait we all share.

If I've learned anything during my years on flight sim forums it is that snobbery and arrogance isn't simply an American trait. It's universal. Just as it is having a preference for what is familiar.*

 

*edited out double post

 

 

Nothing to be sheepish about liking the US planes. In fact its fun watching the usual suspects on this forum get all lathered up from simply stringing these three characters together : P51. 

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There are some nice offerings from Virpil and VKB for high end sticks. I am especially fond of the Virpil stick, absolutely love mine, and they are showing renderings of an upcoming throttle as well.

 

I drool at those, but they aren't really financially viable for me. It's not the price of the hardware itself, but additional import tax and customs rates (not to mention the wait time for customs clearance) simply kill it for me at this point. If they were more widely available...

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Yeah I spend absolutely 0 time in the QMB, unless I am just testing a plane after setting up controls for it. Other than that, like for combat I do not. And no way could I tackle the full Mission Editor, afraid that one is beyond the scope of my abilities.

 

However, I spent a lot of time in the stock campaign, and then a couple of the scripted campaigns, and now am very engrossed in a PWCG campaign so that is keeping me busy. And so looking forward to the new Career upcoming. Between PWCG and this new Career, I will have plenty to keep me busy as a SP guy for quite some time.

 

I spend 99% of my time in the QMB, thin as it is. The FMB is as much fun as a migraine, so that's out, and the provided missions don't do much for me. It's QMB all the way, but it could really use an overhaul. The IL2-46 QMB, especially in its modded B.A.T version, is excellent. Some of the maps are instant battles, with front lines and tons of objects on each side. In ten-seconds you can jump into a mission that's full of things to do. You're put right into a living landscape, and in some cases, you get about three-seconds before all the AAA in the world opens up on it. You don't have to look for something to do - the mission finds you.  

 

A QMB like that in BOX would be the cat's ass. And yes, I would be happy to pay for it. :)

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Mmmm.......this and a razor-back P47 and with whats still to come from BoK we've got a pretty good mediterranean plane set. After Midway is released we'll 'just' need a map.......and perhaps a british carrier with the Spit mk. V turned into the SeafireIII ?

 

Add a couple of Italian aircraft for the Axis too and we're off! :salute:

Can't agree more... we have all the right German aircraft so a release of Italian types to go with the MC.202 would give loads of options.

And as a lot of the Allied set would also work for the Pacific in either a land- or carrier-based release (P-38, P-47, Beaufort, Fairey Firefly, the lend-lease types we've got and a modded Seafire) then it seems like a no-brainer.

Two theatres in one and all we need is a third-party map.

 

Although technically the modded Spit Vb would make for a Seafire Ib, the LF III had a more powerful engine, four-bladed prop and folding wings.

I hope to see it in-game someday soon as well though...

 

Also: that national Pride of yours, it does look inflamed. Should have it looked at. Probably best if just removed TBH. Doesn't help your intelligence in any way.

Re: too much pride vs not enough intelligence; take your own advice, kid.

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Re: too much pride vs not enough intelligence; take your own advice, kid.

Oh well, I never claimed intelligence. But it doesn't seem smart at all to show pride in coninidence. 

 

My point still stands that Reichsverteidigung would be absolutely boring Airquake Action and uninteresting to anyone but 190s and P-51 Fanbois. 

 

I already offered the Battle of France 1940 (Ardennes/Dunkirk), Bodenplatte around Bastogne 1945, Market Garden (Arnhem) 1944 and the Air Action there. All of these could be fit on one map. 

Maybe even Italy 43-44-45.

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I love carrier warfare and am looking forward to BoP but beyond that I think it a shame that CLoD has first refusal on North Africa.   BoX already has most of the aircraft needed and It is a nice balanced war unlike Normandy where the LW was on the ropes. All it needs is a few British tanks,  maybe a B24 and Hurri-bomber.   If the coast is included then torpedo Beauforts and He111s.   

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The western front scenario, from a personal point of view hold little interest. This is not because of aircraft types but from the fact that you would almost certainly have to have air starts. I can't imagine this or any sim engine could cope at this point with mass formations of B-17's, flying from England on an 8 hour mission to to bomb targets in Germany. I'm sure those who complain about realism wouldn't want they aircraft to spawn 30 minutes from the target?

 

The thought of having to program and pull off such an undertaking, as making a fairly realistic western front scenario boggles the mind to some degree.   

 

Mission number 357

 

http://www.303rdbg.com/missionreports/357.pdf

 

Seeing as Cliff is dealing With North Africa, I would love to see a MTO with maybe Malta and Crete included. That would make for some great aircraft sets and scenarios.

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Well, I'm not sure about Air Action around the Battle of Monte Cassino, as that is well known among Americans, and Malta would also make for a Good Med Map outside of Africa. 

 

I know quite little about the Italian Theater. 

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Seeing as Cliff is dealing With North Africa, I would love to see a MTO with maybe Malta and Crete included. That would make for some great aircraft sets and scenarios.

Tunisia perhaps belongs to North Africa in this respect, but Sicily and Italy in 1943 certainly do not. There's a gap between CLoD and BOX which could be filled to the like of many of us, including our American friends. 

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Tunisia perhaps belongs to North Africa in this respect, but Sicily and Italy in 1943 certainly do not. There's a gap between CLoD and BOX which could be filled to the like of many of us, including our American friends. 

 

Yes, Indeed. 

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The western front scenario, from a personal point of view hold little interest. This is not because of aircraft types but from the fact that you would almost certainly have to have air starts. I can't imagine this or any sim engine could cope at this point with mass formations of B-17's, flying from England on an 8 hour mission to to bomb targets in Germany. I'm sure those who complain about realism wouldn't want they aircraft to spawn 30 minutes from the target?

 

The thought of having to program and pull off such an undertaking, as making a fairly realistic western front scenario boggles the mind to some degree.   

 

 

Warbirds had bomber missions that started on the ground and there were no complaints.  They did compress the maps so that it was possible to fly from East Anglia to Frankfurt in an hour but it was fantastic fun taxiing out in B17s & B24s and taking off together then plotting a route over the North Sea to Kiel or Berlin all the time wondering when you will suddenly see Fw190s attacking head-on.  The best bit for me was the limping home with bits falling off :-)   I should point out that these big raids were only in the twice weekly special events.

 

sl228_10.jpg

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex
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Warbirds had bomber missions that started on the ground and there were no complaints.  They did compress the maps so that it was possible to fly from East Anglia to Frankfurt in an hour but it was fantastic fun taxiing out in B17s & B24s and taking off together then plotting a route over the North Sea to Kiel or Berlin all the time wondering when you will suddenly see Fw190s attacking head-on.  The best bit for me was the limping home with bits falling off :-)   I should point out that these big raids were only in the twice weekly special events.

 

Yep, its more than possible to compress missions but even DCS haven't gone down the route (yet) of having a complex "flyable" B-17. I just think it would be far too big of an undertaking to develop a western front set, with the same complex model we currently have. 

 

Edit: With unlimited time and funds, I'm sure the devs could create almost any theater and do it justice.

 

PS: Whilst not really being a flight sim, I had a lot of fun with B-17 the mighty 8th.

Edited by 6./ZG26_Custard

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I loved B-17: The Mighty Eight, but it was a completely different game, and regarding the Western ETO scenario, I'm with Custard and Klaus.

Can we have heavies operated in a sort of Air Marshal mode as it was the case with The Mighty Eight? Unlikely, as it would be a different game and would require a lot of resources to develop.

Then, if we can't have the heavies, or only can have them as AI dummies, everything we could do would be to 1) escort them and 2) intercept them. Apart from the take-off part what you mention, everything would be just like a QMB mission at 8k+ altitude with Jugs and 'Stangs on the one side, and with 109s and 190s on the other.

It would be great to have Jugs and 'Stangs, to be clear, and the sooner the better, but for me nothing is less exciting than flying them over from England to Germany just to have a 5 minute dogfight that I could also set up in the QMB. From a (historical) Axis perspective it's even less intriguing to take off to clash and die.

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I think if it ever went to Western Europe it would be wiser to start with smaller tactical level engagements. Say nothing bigger than A-20Gs and B-25s doing raids over Malta and Monte Casino like Klaus suggested. If you went straight for France in 1942 or 43 than all the German aircrafts are already made and would basically be re-sold. So Italy makes the most sense to tap into new paneset options. We might get a DO-217 and Me 410 out of it though. So basically I can see the timeline going like this:

 

Pacific:

1942 - 1944 Focusing on Navy/Marines planes for Americans and RAAF and Navy/Army planes for Japan's side

 

Italy:

1942 - 1943 Focusing on USAF and RAF planes and a mix of Italy/Germany

 

Belgium:

1944 Focusing on USAF and RAF planes and Germany

 

Germany:

1945 Focusing on Russian planes and Germany's latest and greatest 

 

 

Edited France to Belgium

Edited by Field-Ops

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So Italy makes the most sense to tap into new paneset options.

 

Not so much - you're forgetting some things.

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Not so much - you're forgetting some things.

I mean if you wana go western front in the same 1942 - 1943 as we just did for russian front. 

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It’s gotten old and it’s about time someone called you out on your misplaced sense of moral and national superiority.
 

Nothing against Americans, but that seems a tad ironic  :huh:.

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Oh well, I never claimed intelligence. But it doesn't seem smart at all to show pride in coninidence. 

 

My point still stands that Reichsverteidigung would be absolutely boring Airquake Action and uninteresting to anyone but 190s and P-51 Fanbois. 

 

I already offered the Battle of France 1940 (Ardennes/Dunkirk), Bodenplatte around Bastogne 1945, Market Garden (Arnhem) 1944 and the Air Action there. All of these could be fit on one map. 

Maybe even Italy 43-44-45.

 

I'd love a late Western front scenario. Years ago when we got the Tempest V I put together a couple of campaigns under the Storm Clouds banner (a Tempest and FW190 campaign with a mini P-47 campaign) and these are some super fun scenarios. Lots of ground attack, high performance prop fighters, the odd Arado jet bomber, low level strike missions and the like. I'm more focused on the tactical air war here with the 9th AF and 2nd TAF rather than the strategic situation which is mostly overwhelming for the Luftwaffe.

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Nothing against Americans, but that seems a tad ironic :huh:.

Not really. I’m holding an individual accountable for his individual actions/posts over a couple of years on this forum. Personal accountability is sorely lacking these days. I challenge you to find a single post of mine where I slag an entire people or say Murica is the greatest and won the war. I’m generally pretty welcoming on these forums, in fact. Not a whit of irony or nationalism in my post. I stand by it. Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf
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holding an individual accountable

Translation: Being overly touchy over nothing, going off on a Hair Trigger. 

You are just being ridculous. 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus-Mann

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Translation: Being overly touchy over nothing, going off on a Hair Trigger. 

You are just being ridculous. 

 

I seem to remember you saying something like.......No more Yankee trash! Not a direct quote, but close.

 

How are we to take that? How about you take responsibility for what you say?

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You know what? I am actually quite sick of actually having to argue the point about "Well, Americans won't buy Games that don't include Americans".

Imagine how ridiculous the Argument would be if I argued against the Pacific because it doesn't include Germans. 

Or against the Med because there were no Russians in it. 

Yes, you are being ridicolous and the merit of your Arguments is doubtful AT BEST: 

 

I am giving you guys options for tactically interesting Options including you, I have been forthcoming but all I receive are Nationalist BS Insults. 

 

Just get a Grip and get over yourselves. You are the only one responsible for our own feelings. 

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No idea what you're talking about? I bought the original IL2 the day it came out and flew it for a decade. I don't just fly American planes.

 

We're not talking about that. We're talking about you ragging on America, it's people, and planes. You aren't man enough to accept that. Calling us ridiculous doesn't change that fact.

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No idea what you're talking about? I bought the original IL2 the day it came out and flew it for a decade. I don't just fly American planes.

 

We're not talking about that. We're talking about you ragging on America, it's people, and planes. You aren't man enough to accept that. Calling us ridiculous doesn't change that fact.

Are you deliberately derailling this over things I haven't said here? It's Off Topic. Why do you even care? 

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I would be happy if more US and Australian customers came along making the servers populated at all times. And to be fair most US citizens here have been pretty fair about Eastern front, witch was not attractive to them in the old game. 

I have been one of those thinking that Pacific would bring more people in. Making the theme a nationalist one force people to patriotism and politics. One of the few advantages being in these kind of forums is the lack of this kind of polarised debates. 

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Are you deliberately derailling this over things I haven't said here? It's Off Topic. Why do you even care? 

 

No, not trying to derail anything. I'm just following up on your conversation with HerrMurf. You were coming off a little too innocent. Why do you care what he says?

 

Ok, i'm done. I'll add that when I see you rag on anything American for no reason. You can expect me to respond. Just like i'd expect you to respond if I did it to Germany.

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I would be happy if more US and Australian customers came along making the servers populated at all times. And to be fair most US citizens here have been pretty fair about Eastern front, witch was not attractive to them in the old game. 

I have been one of those thinking that Pacific would bring more people in. Making the theme a nationalist one force people to patriotism and politics. One of the few advantages being in these kind of forums is the lack of this kind of polarised debates. 

I'm just as excited for the Pacific, but they are already ruining the Forum and the P-51 hasn't even been announced yet. 

 

But for the Pre-Order time I shall be excited to fly Wildcats over Stalingrad and Kuban. 

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You know what? I am actually quite sick of actually having to argue the point about "Well, Americans won't buy Games that don't include Americans".

Imagine how ridiculous the Argument would be if I argued against the Pacific because it doesn't include Germans.

Or against the Med because there were no Russians in it.

.

Yes, you are being ridicolous and the merit of your Arguments is doubtful AT BEST:

 

I am giving you guys options for tactically interesting Options including you, I have been forthcoming but all I receive are Nationalist BS Insults.

 

Just get a Grip and get over yourselves. You are the only one responsible for our own feelings.

There are plenty of Americans who own BoS/M/K. I am British and have zero interest in the Eastern front yet Ive bought all 3 and the collector planes as have many Americans. I would much prefer British and American aircraft and when they are released I will fly them exclusively. Because I spent a large part of my childhood building spitfires, Typhoons, P51s, P47s, P38 (very hard to hold properly when playing dogfights with your brother), hurricanes and have a special affinity for the western allies aircraft. I will still buy whatever is released. There is an argument that the introduction of the RAF, FAA, USAAF and USN will bring in new players, it will, just as the introduction of Japanese aircraft will. The same argument can be made that the player base hasn't grown because we are still, after almost 3 releases, in the Eastern front. You cant force folk to part with their money but you can encourage them with a shiny P51d. Many folk here want a Spanish civil war expansion, thats all well and good for CFS nerds but its never going to grow the player base and make the devs lots of money because its non existent in popular culture. Like it or not American culture is based around the American experience so yes a large percentage of Americans, not all, will only buy games that involve the American experience.

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Gladly.

 

No matter what Scenario is lays ahead, I hope for more diversification in Aircraft Types and Missions Roles as well. 

 

Starting with Land Recconaissance of Course, which wouldn't require more than 1 or 2 Aircraft types per nation. 

Then of course more Transports and Liason Aircraft for diverse Tasks, be it Cargo Delivery, VIP Rescue, Medevac, Sea Rescue

Maritime Patrol against Submarines and Convois,

Glider Assaults and Cargo Missions.

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Tunisia perhaps belongs to North Africa in this respect, but Sicily and Italy in 1943 certainly do not. There's a gap between CLoD and BOX which could be filled to the like of many of us, including our American friends.

A perfect scenario for my beloved P47

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A perfect scenario for my beloved P47

 

Our beloved P-47. :)

Edited by BuzzU

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There are plenty of Americans who own BoS/M/K. I am British and have zero interest in the Eastern front yet Ive bought all 3 and the collector planes as have many Americans.

 

 

As a Canadian, my main interest was to have a "high-def" IL2 with 37mm cannons.

 

They could have taken a scenario from the War of 1812 and put it on a map of Mars. As long as I got my 37mm IL2, all else was secondary. :cool:

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Just like to point out that I have dropped about $400 on my self in this endeavor and just under a grand for perfect strangers. Not a P-51 to be seen.....

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What? There are no American planes? I demand a refund! ;)

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