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=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

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But...that is the case in game. I-16 can do nothing against 109s if they keep their head and dont try to mix it up. E-7 totally outclasses I-16 in speed. It is 30 km/h - 80 km/h faster in game. Apply correct tactics and 109Es are untouchable. 

 

Maybe, under certain conditions, but in actual usage, when you are attempting to drive the mission objectives rather than "apply correct tactics", this on-paper benefit is greatly mitigated.  Our ground attack plane is abysmal, so we must lug bombs and then fly around with the shackle on.  (This isn't a whine, brother, simply a revelation to me)

 

What makes you say this? Not trying to be argumentative, I just don't see how this is an absolute. 

 

Also, on the topic of Stukas vs Il-2, the main reason I see them dropping like flies is because Stuka pilots are trying to fly like they're in an Il-2. It's a dive bomber, yet I rarely see any Stukas diving. Instead they're putzing along at 500m waiting for an I-16 to come up and shoot them in the belly. This isn't a comment on if it's fair that the LW is stuck with a dive bomber as their basic attack plane. My point is just that I didn't see a single Stuka pilot actually use the aircraft "properly" during the first map.

 

Edit: I goofed my quote tag and can't bother to fix it, but that's an 80hd quote.

 

 

  • Axis pilots have 50% chance to be captured over enemy area. Allied 20%.

 

If you look at the current stats:

 

Axis have lost

Aircrafts 30/1300 Pilots 24/900

 

Allies have lost:

 

Aircrafts 34/1300 Pilots 14/900

 

 

This is very much in-line with how it always goes, so I have no reason to doubt the capture settings.

 

It's not like this is a problem... while all of the settings and ordnance restrictions at least slightly favor the Allies, the fact of the matter is that unless Axis starts working together even strategically, we're going to get blown out, and being allowed to carry SC1000s+ isn't going to change that.

 

Been some awesome fights, had an absolute blast last night, looking forward to it again!  (Also, I like flying with you more than against you, CG hahahaha)

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Then don't insinuate that there is something wrong with the FM when it's clearly your tactics that are lacking. ;) Btw, even with bombracks the E7 has a solid speed advantage over I-16. Mk.Mr.Xs video is a clear example of 109s executing wrong tactics, all the 109s he shot down were either caught by surprise or tried to turnfight him.

Corrigan, first off, this is the multiplayer forum post for the Tactical Air War server, and for those who fly on that server.  Since you're not playing there, you not only have no reason to comment here, you have no real context for the situation we are discussing.  I am sure you can find another place to post?

Secondly, your extrapolation upon my statement is the only insinuation here... and if you could keep those extrapolations to yourself in the future, that would be wonderful.  

To be crystal clear, I neither implied nor am attempting to imply that there is anything wrong with any flight model.  I'm neither versed enough in aerodynamics, nor this simulation thereof, to do anything other than question and attempt to match up what I have read/heard/etc with what is being presented in-game.  The 109E-7 is indeed capable of attaining higher top speeds than the I-16 in game in level flight, that fact is neither disputed nor what is in question here.

 

You're attempting to make a connection to whatever TWB-obsessed fan video was posted to my statement and it's not only invalid, it's honestly none of your business. 

 

I'm trying to rally the Axis to make some changes this map, and I may not be the best person for the job, but I will still try.  You are more than welcome to come fly with us.

 

:salute:

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Axis pilots have 50% chance to be captured over enemy area. Allied 20%.

 

Good point. Maybe after this campaign it's time to even this out again.

 

Just curious, how would it help a Stuka against I-16, if ot was flying a bit higher?

 

Two ways:

 

First, flying over enemy territory at 4k you'll probably fly over most I-16s and other VVS fighters in the process. Even if they notice you, they're so slow they won't be able to climb and catch up in time. Second and more importantly, when you dive into the target you'll be going fast and can avoid enemy fighters and flak on the way down and then egress quickly on the deck using that energy and be gone before you're picked up by fighters. 

 

This is how we managed to survive quite a few Stuka flights in FNBF a couple months ago, and how we managed to mostly survive in this video, and the same tactics could work on TAW. They would certainly work better than the tactics I see employed currently.

 

And I know 80hd was joking about the siren  ;) but seriously you have a death wish if you're carrying the siren on TAW. 12m/s speed loss IIRC and every VVS pilot will have their head on a swivel when they hear that thing!

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That is nice video, but you were not intercepted in it. While I also like to use Stuka as a dive bomber, I can't really see much difference in survivability, even if flying at 4k. It takes what, two minutes(?), for I-16 to climb from 2k to 4k. Some I-16's are around 3k already anyway and you will be discovered earlier when you are high. Even if manage to get your bombs on target, chances of getting back home are slim. Personally I can't see big difference in survavibility in a Stuka, no matter at what altitude you are intercepted.

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80hd' timestamp='1478192709' post='405917'] Пилоты Оси имеют 50% шанс  захвата D над вражеской территории. Allied 20%.

 

 This is true historically. Blue pilots always have the initiative in their hands, they can avoid the fight, to fight, and quickly get out of the fight.

All defines tactics. If you are not bogged down first card and immediately fought like yesterday - a victory would probably be yours.

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 This is true historically. Blue pilots always have the initiative in their hands, they can avoid the fight, to fight, and quickly get out of the fight.

All defines tactics. If you are not bogged down first card and immediately fought like yesterday - a victory would probably be yours.

 

 

Again, I was simply explaining why Blue will always lose more pilots, not disparaging the setting.

If it has been determined that  Red needs Blue to not carry heavy ordnance and also have a far greater chance to be captured (which definitely seems historically accurate) then so be it, Blue just has to deal with it.

 

But, to your point that "Blue pilots always have the initiative" that's only true from the so-called "Hartmanning" point of view... certainly, a savvy 109 flier can choose to stay high and fast and have zero impact on the ground war, and therefore the tactical air war, that's absolutely an option.  However, once you're lugging ords, or escorting Stukas doing the same, those advantages are immediately significantly mitigated.  

 

It's been quite interesting, very much a challenge and a big change from flying Red (this is my first time flying Axis in a long while) and I am looking forward to more.

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80hd' timestamp='1478204314' post='405999'] But, to your point that "Blue pilots always have the initiative" that's only true from the so-called "Hartmanning" point of view... certainly, a savvy 109 flier can choose to stay high and fast and have zero impact on the ground war, and therefore the tactical air war, that's absolutely an option.  However, once you're lugging ords, or escorting Stukas doing the same, those advantages are immediately significantly mitigated.  
 

 

Red forced to do the same thing, but they did not have powerful and fastest planes

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SeveP had a high rank. And when he threatened that he would die so disconnected in the fight.

Not bad, but that was not ALT + F4
My game was crashed and your friend was without energy, I've still needed 30 seconds to shoot your friend.
 
So your friend can say thanks to game.

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But...that is the case in game. I-16 can do nothing against 109s if they keep their head and dont try to mix it up. E-7 totally outclasses I-16 in speed. It is 30 km/h - 80 km/h faster in game. Apply correct tactics and 109Es are untouchable. 

 

Have you tested this? I find the speed difference to be very marginal between Emil and Rata.

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Red forced to do the same thing, but they did not have powerful and fastest planes

 

 

Agreed, but they do perform quite well low and slow (though the F4 is a dominant force down on the deck too, in my opinion) and the IL-2 can escort itself, tovarisch!  :biggrin:

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Agreed, but they do perform quite well low and slow (though the F4 is a dominant force down on the deck too, in my opinion) and the IL-2 can escort itself, tovarisch!  :biggrin:

I came to the conclusion that the main thing is the team and its coordinated work.

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Just met 3 russian fighters. And was happy with the results.

 

wow you just did the Red Tails maneuver o.o

 

 

Warning for sensible viewers :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SuperEtendard

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wow you just did the Red Tails maneuver o.o

 

 

Warning for sensible viewers :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

nah there was no stall included

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Corrigan, first off, this is the multiplayer forum post for the Tactical Air War server, and for those who fly on that server. Since you're not playing there, you not only have no reason to comment here, you have no real context for the situation we are discussing.

 

 

I think sometimes this can't be stressed enough.

 

Other examples:

- Comparing offline combat against AI vs online experienced players.

- Comparing expert server without icons vs Normal server.

 

Completely different.

 

AI couldn't hold a candle to some of the online pilots you encounter in all areas except gunnery.

 

Situational awareness due to the ridiculous standard icons in a normal server completely tips the balance in favour of blue in Normal.

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Where is BoS transport Pe's?

 

There is a problem with s87 Peshkas which do not show up. Bos-only red players can only have a go on the Lagg-3 and if something happens they cannot fly anymore. Can you check this out please?

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I'm fairly new to BOS/BOM. That's why I'm asking you veterans to get some explanations and to understand the game better:

 

- Why is Blue loosing much more tanks than Reds?

 

When I find spare time to log in, I always find at least one wingman to Bomb the hell out of the enemy tanks. We dive, but also we fly low when we know that the we have air superiority. This to get just faster to the TA and back to the airfield. And we almost always manage to destroy the tank column. In general there is really a great coordination effort in the ally chat. OK, there are some "experts" that give stupid answers. But the most pilots are cooperative and share information.

 

- Should we resupply more often own airfields?

 

- What are the criterias to select an enemy airfield to bomb? Do we concentrate on the advancement path of the tanks?

 

 

I don't think that blue only loses because the planes aren't flown correctly. Maybe Axis has much more new pilots who don't understand the mechanics properly. I also never see invitations to a Teamsspeak.

 

Example: I apprechiated a lot the coordination efforts of TWB Ecoke (idk if the name is correct). He called out targets and 5 mins later we were a very intense and funny furball fighting 7 i16's. Now imagine new players or "clan external" players get invited to Teamspeak. This is a great opportunity to improve skills, ask questions and get overall better results in the end. 

 

This are my 2 cents. It's funny how involved one can get if there is a campaign going on. Such a dedication is unique in IL2! 

 

See you in the skies o7

 

Edit:

 

 

80hd' timestamp='1478180204' post='405801'] If we're going to turn this around, we've got to see a lot more double-duty 109s... take a bomb to target, then roll back and defend the forward-most tanks.  The only real chance Blue has is by capturing fields, and due to the extreme attrition rate we have a relatively limited amount of time to achieve that goal.
 

 

Isn't that the historical correct way? This is why Hitler wanted  that every plane had to be able to carry bombs, isn't it?

Edited by Emuyen

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Hello Friends pilots! Very want fly on your server. I made a mistake without registered squad. Now do not let the game and does not change the name! Developers Please help: Delrte KyKyPy3HuK account as an Account and restore = 13IAP = KyKyPy3HuK.  thanks!

Edited by =13IAP=KyKyPy3HuK

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BOS Pe-87 transport added to the map.

Hi Kathon! Help me enter my account in TAW =13IAP=KyKyPy3HuK. The matter is that ferst time i was registeted without Squad also could not enter.  Please delete KyKyPy3HuK and give me opportunity to fly on Your fine server! =13IAP=KyKyPy3HuK  I will wait ! ThanKs.
 
mail : kukuruznikan2@list.ru

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Hi Kathon! Help me enter my account in TAW =13IAP=KyKyPy3HuK. The matter is that ferst time i was registeted without Squad also could not enter.  Please delete KyKyPy3HuK and give me opportunity to fly on Your fine server! =13IAP=KyKyPy3HuK  I will wait ! ThanKs.
 
mail : kukuruznikan2@list.ru

 

Deleted.

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Sorry to beat the BoS-only dead horse, but it looks like I ditched my two LaGG 3's. Is there any way I can get any more, or should I wait for next map? Thanks :)

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Blue will always lose more pilots and unless a masochistic squad is REALLY pushing the horribad Ju-87 front, will lose tanks at an astounding rate as well.  The Ju-87 is a D+ plane, the IL-2 1941 is an A- plane.  When it comes to killing tanks, the Stuka is a D-, the 1941 is an A.  You can carry bombs, rockets, and a deep loadout of 23mm AP ammo that works on everything in the game in a plane that is a fantastic fighter.

 

The 109-E7/I-16 match-up was a real eye opener for me, once again, reading all the hype and history books I had been led to believe that the I-16 was obsolete, outclassed, and annihilated by the 109E in 1941 that was supposedly so much faster... clearly not the case.

 

Bottom line is that we can't do anything about the Dudebros who want to hemorrhage planes and pilots wantonly, apparently Luftwaffe rides are just more attractive to those sorts.  We can't affect the bail-out/capture rate, nor are we going to see an effective ground attack aircraft anytime soon, certainly not one that can clean up a line of tanks with relative ease.

 

If we're going to turn this around, we've got to see a lot more double-duty 109s... take a bomb to target, then roll back and defend the forward-most tanks.  The only real chance Blue has is by capturing fields, and due to the extreme attrition rate we have a relatively limited amount of time to achieve that goal.  

 

Strike defense points, defend our tanks, and bring some friends.

 

:salute:

Well I16 are very diffirent to one from another. Types ranging from 5 to 28 and weapons ranging from 2x7.62 to double shvaks +2x7.62. There are also two diffirent engines.

 

Some soviet pilots said how they didnt feel that the later I16 were obsolete until late 1942-mid 1943.

 

The one we have in game is apparently using m62 engine? and a good weapon load. This is a better I16.

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Sorry to beat the BoS-only dead horse, but it looks like I ditched my two LaGG 3's. Is there any way I can get any more, or should I wait for next map? Thanks :)

I think you can fly on Pe-2 ser.87 (transport) and make CM (combat missions)

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I think you can fly on Pe-2 ser.87 (transport) and make CM (combat missions)

 

My understanding of that is that I can fly it around 3 times for 15 minutes each so I can get one extra plane. Doesn't quite seem worth it :) But I'll try to fly it into a combat zone with a GK and back!

 

Edit: transports need to be 100% fuel and no ammo, so not GK or AK are possible apparently. Transports are used to capture airfields, but it looks like Red is on the defensive, not offensive. Doesn't look like I can do much :)

 

Edit2: did some more searching here. Looks like I can actually resupply damaged airfields. I do enjoy logistics, so off I go :)

Edited by Anvilfolk

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Well I16 are very diffirent to one from another. Types ranging from 5 to 28 and weapons ranging from 2x7.62 to double shvaks +2x7.62. There are also two diffirent engines.

 

Some soviet pilots said how they didnt feel that the later I16 were obsolete until late 1942-mid 1943.

 

The one we have in game is apparently using m62 engine? and a good weapon load. This is a better I16.

 

Yeah, I've definitely learned a lot about the aircraft since this TAW match-up... I've flown it before, and in 1946 my favorite career path was earliest Barbarossa as an I-16 pilot... have flown them in WT and Aces High, and thought I knew a bit about them, but just like the IL-2 (and apparently a ton of the rüstsatz too) I find that I know perhaps not as much as I thought I did :)

 

This I-16 is to be respected, no doubt about it!

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This I-16 is to be respected, no doubt about it!

Respect the Airplane is not necessary, respect the pilot, he makes him strong, and not vice versa!

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  • You may supply your friendly airfield by transport planes. To fly supply mission you must takeoff from airfield damaged less then 40% and land on airfield damaged more than 0%. One successfully landed transport plane supplies airfield by about 4% and count “combat mission” to pilot. Defense position (anti-tank artillery) can’t be supplied by transport planes (only by supply convoys). Supply missions have no effect on airfield in two cases:
  1. airfield was destroyed more than 85%  by enemy planes in that mission
  2. airfield was captured by enemy transport planes in that mission

Hello =LG=Kathon,

 

Can you explain how the re-supply mechanics work? What happens if an 80% damaged field is re-supplied first and then hit by the enemy?

 

For example:

  1. The field damage is 80%
  2. A transport lands on the field(-4%)
  3. The field is hit with a bomb(+5%)

What is the total damage - 81% or 85%(if the supply mission doesn't count)?

Edited by Maxyman
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b0c474da2924494583925644260824e5.png

Hey something is wrong. In this mission i hit start and the plane don't appear. I left for 1 minute to drink some water and rejoined on server.

Then i spawned and flyed normaly.

In this 1m 54s something happened? I don't get on aircraft

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Hello, couple of questions if you don't mind:

 

can i play the campaign with BoS?  as a fighter? I think only russians have fighters from BoS, correct?

do i need to join a squadron in order to fly?

 

after choosing a side do you get access to any special intel?

 

 

sorry i don't play bos much, probably all this stuff is known by most people ^^

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=LG=Kathon.

 

Flew on your server, it reminded me of ADW project.
Maybe you want to repeat it.
 
We all remember that ADW was not as much as you have now.
There were squadrons of fighter and bomber squadrons by storm.
Required to make a separate squadron.
The fighter squadron should be no attack aircraft and bombers.
The squadrons of bombers and attack aircraft should not be the best fighter planes, fighter planes just old.
It can make the prize planes have been on ADW? For his achievements?

I remember on ADW it was interesting to look at the map on the prize pilot plane. Everyone wanted to knock it down.  :)

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Hello =LG=Kathon,

 

Can you explain how the re-supply mechanics work? What happens if an 80% damaged field is re-supplied first and then hit by the enemy?

 

For example:

  1. The field damage is 80%
  2. A transport lands on the field(-4%)
  3. The field is hit with a bomb(+5%)

What is the total damage - 81% or 85%(if the supply mission doesn't count)?

First new damage of airfield is counted => 80% + 5% => new AF damage 85%

Then if new AF damage is less than 90%  then supply is subtracted => 85% - 4$ => 81%

 

Another example:

1. AF damage 80%

2. supply transport -4%

3. bombs +15%

 

New AF damage => 80% + 15% => 95% so no supply is counted (95>90) and in the end AF is closed with 100% damage with no AA and ready to be capture.

 

b0c474da2924494583925644260824e5.png

 

Hey something is wrong. In this mission i hit start and the plane don't appear. I left for 1 minute to drink some water and rejoined on server.

 

Then i spawned and flyed normaly.

 

In this 1m 54s something happened? I don't get on aircraft

You may click on your sorite to see details: http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=11860&name=ESCOMM_FlyMaker

You did spawn and was destroyed after 1:30 and result was Ditched. It was game bug for sure.

 

 

Hello, couple of questions if you don't mind:

 

can i play the campaign with BoS?  as a fighter? I think only russians have fighters from BoS, correct?

do i need to join a squadron in order to fly?

 

after choosing a side do you get access to any special intel?

 

 

sorry i don't play bos much, probably all this stuff is known by most people ^^

1. Yes, but on early maps BOS planes are very limited. Check plane set to see which fighters are available on different maps: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21029-tactical-air-war/?p=404326

2. Yes, on map #2 there is only Lagg.

3. No, squadron is not needed.

 

 

=LG=Kathon.

 

Flew on your server, it reminded me of ADW project.
Maybe you want to repeat it.
 
We all remember that ADW was not as much as you have now.
There were squadrons of fighter and bomber squadrons by storm.
Required to make a separate squadron.
The fighter squadron should be no attack aircraft and bombers.
The squadrons of bombers and attack aircraft should not be the best fighter planes, fighter planes just old.
It can make the prize planes have been on ADW? For his achievements?

I remember on ADW it was interesting to look at the map on the prize pilot plane. Everyone wanted to knock it down.  :)

TAW is a mix of ADW, Mist of War and our ideas. This server is still under development so many things will be changed and new added. We plan to separate fighters from bombers/attackers as you wrote and maybe squadrons where available planes are common within squad members. But as always it require a lot of time...

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Do ME and a lot of others a Favour and clear the runways as soon as possible PLEASE . !!! 

 

Thanks to the Stuka a death not worth having . I don`t mind flying into battle and being shot down . No NEED to SIT on RUNWAYS . !!!! ???

 

There is no need to sit on runways ` form up when you are up in the air . CLEAR RUNWAYS . The airfields and taxi ways are too small as it is , it don`t help matters , BOM airfields are decent enough .

 

Remember we can not see over a 109 nose . 

 

Also people are trying to land damaged aircraft .

Edited by II./JG77_Con
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MrX Please take your trolling back to the Russian forums.

WOW ..!! 

 

MR.X 

 

is back ..??

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Agree, always getting 2 fighters for free each rotation, puts far less value on the aircraft, and you can see the results of that in the German planes and pilot losses.

 

Im with Pand, 

I feel people are just throwing planes and lives away.

No 'free' aircraft and a resupply mission to get one back would help the situation alot.

I know im going to get flamed, but its just to easy at the moment.

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