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Tactical Air War

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I-16 has no equal on this card! :biggrin:

Blue side lose all aircraft! :biggrin:

TWB loses all aircraft and leave the server. So it was today.

Pand asked chatting "What Russia is now in time?" ....

I wanted to answer it - "Time to shoot down the crowds TWB" :lol:

I only remember going down to your guns once to my 3 victories over you. I do, however, distinctly remember you being real quick with the Alt and F4 keys.

 

S!

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I-16 has no equal on this card!  :biggrin:

Blue side lose all aircraft!  :biggrin:

TWB loses all aircraft and leave the server. So it was today.
Pand asked chatting "What Russia is now in time?" .... 
I wanted to answer it -  "Time to shoot down the crowds TWB" :lol: 

 

 

The way I remember it, even with us being outnumbered almost 2:1, you lost a pretty big streak last night.

 

You should stick to the Russian forums for filling your attention needs.  I retract my salute.

post-24105-0-52877500-1478094872_thumb.jpg

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I-16 has no equal on this card!  :biggrin:

Blue side lose all aircraft!  :biggrin:

TWB loses all aircraft and leave the server. So it was today.
Pand asked chatting "What Russia is now in time?" .... 
I wanted to answer it -  "Time to shoot down the crowds TWB" :lol: 

 

 

I only remember going down to your guns once to my 3 victories over you. I do, however, distinctly remember you being real quick with the Alt and F4 keys.

 

S!

 

 

marlon-brando-slap-gif-500.gif

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I-16 has no equal on this card!  :biggrin:

 

Incorrect, sir, the IL-2 1941 is easily as good.

 

I just wanted to give you props though, Mr. Hex... no single rage-quit has made me laugh as hard as when you Alt-F4'd in your chute and ruined your own kill streak.

 

That being said, I dunno if you went and got a warm glass of milk or a juice box or something, but when you came back a few minutes later, you were on FIRE... well, I guess I should say everyone else was on fire... I've never seen an I-16 instantly set that many planes on fire in rapid succession before, it was truly something to behold.  You must have been REALLY mad.

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You MK. guys get triggered pretty easy, huh? I should have taken a screenshot of MK.Tyngys raging last night after Finoogles and I owned him... 3 times.

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God guys. calm down

 

Who's not calm?  This is tepid at best.

 

The forum war: for people who can't get away with explaining a TrackIR headset at work, bud.

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I-16 has no equal on this card! :biggrin:

Blue side lose all aircraft! :biggrin:

TWB loses all aircraft and leave the server. So it was today.

Pand asked chatting "What Russia is now in time?" ....

I wanted to answer it - "Time to shoot down the crowds TWB" :lol:

Or when he said that it was past 11:00 pm as I recall.

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Or when he said that it was past 11:00 pm as I recall.

 

It was 6 or 7 AM Moscow time when he said that.

 

BTW fun fights last night, Kai_Lae! Let's do it again tonight.  :salute:

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After I was shot down. My friend started to chase him and after it fired he disconnected.

02.11.2016 20:48:24 DAMAGED 0.776 Ju 87 D-3 Plane CSAF_Shephard

02.11.2016 20:48:24 SHOT DOWN Ju 87 D-3 Plane CSAF_Shephard

02.11.2016 20:48:24 DAMAGED 0.037 BotGunner_Ju87D3 Gunner CSAF_Shephard

02.11.2016 20:48:24 DAMAGED 1.000 BotPilot Pilot CSAF_Shephard

02.11.2016 20:48:24 KILLED BotPilot Pilot CSAF_Shephard

02.11.2016 20:49:40 PILOT EXIT

Edited by CSAF_Shephard

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Shephard take it easy ( to chce klid ) ;)  Alt + F4 = classic tactics since the old Sturm how to protect your streak.

...Sereme na nich :biggrin:

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Just my opinion but I enjoyed the resupply "game" alot more in the last mission.  It seems way too easy to always have a plane to fly.  It's not even a thought that crosses my mind now.  It was fun worrying about how many planes I had in the last mission.  It's just taken a little of the fun out of it.  The enemy always has plenty of planes too.  You know.  

Edited by 12.OIAE_Snake9
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Just my opinion but I enjoyed the resupply "game" alot more in the last mission.  It seems way too easy to always have a plane to fly.  It's not even a thought that crosses my mind now.  It was fun worrying about how many planes I had in the last mission.  It's just taken a little of the fun out of it.  The enemy always has plenty of planes too.  You know.  

 

I agree, even though I didn't partake last time. To have limited resources makes you much more cautions!

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Just my opinion but I enjoyed the resupply "game" alot more in the last mission.  It seems way too easy to always have a plane to fly.  It's not even a thought that crosses my mind now.  It was fun worrying about how many planes I had in the last mission.  It's just taken a little of the fun out of it.  The enemy always has plenty of planes too.  You know.

 

I also agree. The ease of re-supply for fighters leads to me being less careful. On the other hand it would be interesting if the German re-supply rate were more restrictive to simulate the Russians throwing every piece of equipment they have at the Germans in desperation and the Germans being more diciplined and experienced with longer supply lines would have to play it more cautious. The massive German pilot losses are kind of shocking. Is there any way to get a breakdown of what types of planes are accounting for losses? I would love to know how many fighters versus bombers have been lost for both sides.

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Just my opinion but I enjoyed the resupply "game" alot more in the last mission.  It seems way too easy to always have a plane to fly.  It's not even a thought that crosses my mind now.  It was fun worrying about how many planes I had in the last mission.  It's just taken a little of the fun out of it.  The enemy always has plenty of planes too.  You know.  

 

 

It is just #1 Map, it will get little bit harder later :)http://taw.stg2.de/rules.php

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So If I'm reading this correctly, on the next map - players will get two MiG-3s or the BF109F2s and one P-40/MC202 (depending on side) initially, and if they lose those planes they have to perform three combat missions to get another. However, they still have three I-16/E7s and will get +1 each mission roll over. Is that correct?

 

planeset_v1.4.2.jpg

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Just my opinion but I enjoyed the resupply "game" alot more in the last mission. It seems way too easy to always have a plane to fly. It's not even a thought that crosses my mind now. It was fun worrying about how many planes I had in the last mission. It's just taken a little of the fun out of it. The enemy always has plenty of planes too. You know.

Agree, always getting 2 fighters for free each rotation, puts far less value on the aircraft, and you can see the results of that in the German planes and pilot losses.

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They are "weaker" planes but unlimited supply without flying CM is not that good imho. But that was first map, now you have to do CM to earn better planes - it could change behavior and gameplay. Lets see how it will be now.

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His innovations, you have significantly reduced access to your server pilots. Congratulations!

What problems? Map#1: blue BoS - Ju-87 and He-111... red BoS -  nothing.

Sorry, I was inattentive....  Map#2: blue BoS - only Ju-87... red BoS -  LaGG and Pe-2. It's a shame

You need to win this company faster and move on to the Map#3

Edited by Lawyer_1

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Well, I bet that starting servers of BF4 reduced access to those servers for owners of BF3. Just buy the game, or wait for map to change.

 

Please don't listen to BOS-only community. Mixing BOS and BOM planes is nothing more but chopping the BOM content more or less.

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Blue will always lose more pilots and unless a masochistic squad is REALLY pushing the horribad Ju-87 front, will lose tanks at an astounding rate as well.  The Ju-87 is a D+ plane, the IL-2 1941 is an A- plane.  When it comes to killing tanks, the Stuka is a D-, the 1941 is an A.  You can carry bombs, rockets, and a deep loadout of 23mm AP ammo that works on everything in the game in a plane that is a fantastic fighter.

 

The 109-E7/I-16 match-up was a real eye opener for me, once again, reading all the hype and history books I had been led to believe that the I-16 was obsolete, outclassed, and annihilated by the 109E in 1941 that was supposedly so much faster... clearly not the case.

 

Bottom line is that we can't do anything about the Dudebros who want to hemorrhage planes and pilots wantonly, apparently Luftwaffe rides are just more attractive to those sorts.  We can't affect the bail-out/capture rate, nor are we going to see an effective ground attack aircraft anytime soon, certainly not one that can clean up a line of tanks with relative ease.

 

If we're going to turn this around, we've got to see a lot more double-duty 109s... take a bomb to target, then roll back and defend the forward-most tanks.  The only real chance Blue has is by capturing fields, and due to the extreme attrition rate we have a relatively limited amount of time to achieve that goal.  

 

Strike defense points, defend our tanks, and bring some friends.

 

:salute:

Edited by [TWB]80hd
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You're absolutely right 80hd, the Stuka is really bad unless we have air superiority. When we can utilize Bf-110 and FW 190 in our ground attack, perhaps we can increase our (estimated) 25% survival rate a bit..

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I only remember going down to your guns once to my 3 victories over you.

Such victories?

 

 
Only the group can fly and shoot down.

I do, however, distinctly remember you being real quick with the Alt and F4 keys.

Evidence in the studio! 

I do not get out of the battle Alt+F4!
I respect the opponent with whom I conduct battle!
Remember this!

Blue will always lose more pilots

LOL :lol:

 

Bottom line is that we can't do anything about

I agree! When there is resistance, you can do nothing. :biggrin:

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Blue will always lose more pilots

 

What makes you say this? Not trying to be argumentative, I just don't see how this is an absolute. 

 

Also, on the topic of Stukas vs Il-2, the main reason I see them dropping like flies is because Stuka pilots are trying to fly like they're in an Il-2. It's a dive bomber, yet I rarely see any Stukas diving. Instead they're putzing along at 500m waiting for an I-16 to come up and shoot them in the belly. This isn't a comment on if it's fair that the LW is stuck with a dive bomber as their basic attack plane. My point is just that I didn't see a single Stuka pilot actually use the aircraft "properly" during the first map.

 

Edit: I goofed my quote tag and can't bother to fix it, but that's an 80hd quote.

Edited by 19.GIAP//curiousGamblerr

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Are you sure those not divebombing aren't equipped with cannons?

Yeah. That would make sense at least. But I'm yet to see a Kanonenvogel, just putzing Stukas with a couple of bombs.

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The 109-E7/I-16 match-up was a real eye opener for me, once again, reading all the hype and history books I had been led to believe that the I-16 was obsolete, outclassed, and annihilated by the 109E in 1941 that was supposedly so much faster... clearly not the case.

 

You have to also take into account things like VVS losing thousands of planes in the ground, plus a good chunk of the air force were biplanes like the I-15 and I-153. The I-16 we have is the best performing variant, the type 24, there were other variants like the type 18 or type 29 which had worse performance because either had less powerful engines, or had heavier armament (wing cannons or 12.7mm in the nose). You can have the type 28 as a mod (2 ShVAKs) but I don't know how the cannons decrease the performance of the plane IRL vs in game. And the Bf-109Fs weren't in the server lineup.

 

Probably the most important fact is the difference between tactics, organization and pilot skill. The VVS was in crisis at the beggining of the invasion, they had low trained pilots and used old 30s tactics like the Vic formation, the Germans were exact opposite having developped the finger four and it's doctrine, combined with aces and experienced pilots from the Spanish Civil War and Battle of France/Britain. (Experienced Soviet pilots which returned to the USSR after the Spanish Civil War knew about how these new tactics had to be updated but they couldn't change the doctrine as they were ignored/purged/prosecuted etc).

Edited by SuperEtendard

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Yeah. That would make sense at least. But I'm yet to see a Kanonenvogel, just putzing Stukas with a couple of bombs.

 

Ugh, such disgrace! I blame War Thunder. ;)

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But...that is the case in game. I-16 can do nothing against 109s if they keep their head and dont try to mix it up. E-7 totally outclasses I-16 in speed. It is 30 km/h - 80 km/h faster in game. Apply correct tactics and 109Es are untouchable. 

 

Maybe, under certain conditions, but in actual usage, when you are attempting to drive the mission objectives rather than "apply correct tactics", this on-paper benefit is greatly mitigated.  Our ground attack plane is abysmal, so we must lug bombs and then fly around with the shackle on.  (This isn't a whine, brother, simply a revelation to me)

 

What makes you say this? Not trying to be argumentative, I just don't see how this is an absolute. 

 

Also, on the topic of Stukas vs Il-2, the main reason I see them dropping like flies is because Stuka pilots are trying to fly like they're in an Il-2. It's a dive bomber, yet I rarely see any Stukas diving. Instead they're putzing along at 500m waiting for an I-16 to come up and shoot them in the belly. This isn't a comment on if it's fair that the LW is stuck with a dive bomber as their basic attack plane. My point is just that I didn't see a single Stuka pilot actually use the aircraft "properly" during the first map.

 

Edit: I goofed my quote tag and can't bother to fix it, but that's an 80hd quote.

 

 

  • Axis pilots have 50% chance to be captured over enemy area. Allied 20%.

 

If you look at the current stats:

 

Axis have lost

Aircrafts 30/1300 Pilots 24/900

 

Allies have lost:

 

Aircrafts 34/1300 Pilots 14/900

 

 

This is very much in-line with how it always goes, so I have no reason to doubt the capture settings.

 

It's not like this is a problem... while all of the settings and ordnance restrictions at least slightly favor the Allies, the fact of the matter is that unless Axis starts working together even strategically, we're going to get blown out, and being allowed to carry SC1000s+ isn't going to change that.

 

Been some awesome fights, had an absolute blast last night, looking forward to it again!  (Also, I like flying with you more than against you, CG hahahaha)

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Then don't insinuate that there is something wrong with the FM when it's clearly your tactics that are lacking. ;) Btw, even with bombracks the E7 has a solid speed advantage over I-16. Mk.Mr.Xs video is a clear example of 109s executing wrong tactics, all the 109s he shot down were either caught by surprise or tried to turnfight him.

Corrigan, first off, this is the multiplayer forum post for the Tactical Air War server, and for those who fly on that server.  Since you're not playing there, you not only have no reason to comment here, you have no real context for the situation we are discussing.  I am sure you can find another place to post?

Secondly, your extrapolation upon my statement is the only insinuation here... and if you could keep those extrapolations to yourself in the future, that would be wonderful.  

To be crystal clear, I neither implied nor am attempting to imply that there is anything wrong with any flight model.  I'm neither versed enough in aerodynamics, nor this simulation thereof, to do anything other than question and attempt to match up what I have read/heard/etc with what is being presented in-game.  The 109E-7 is indeed capable of attaining higher top speeds than the I-16 in game in level flight, that fact is neither disputed nor what is in question here.

 

You're attempting to make a connection to whatever TWB-obsessed fan video was posted to my statement and it's not only invalid, it's honestly none of your business. 

 

I'm trying to rally the Axis to make some changes this map, and I may not be the best person for the job, but I will still try.  You are more than welcome to come fly with us.

 

:salute:

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Axis pilots have 50% chance to be captured over enemy area. Allied 20%.

 

Good point. Maybe after this campaign it's time to even this out again.

 

Just curious, how would it help a Stuka against I-16, if ot was flying a bit higher?

 

Two ways:

 

First, flying over enemy territory at 4k you'll probably fly over most I-16s and other VVS fighters in the process. Even if they notice you, they're so slow they won't be able to climb and catch up in time. Second and more importantly, when you dive into the target you'll be going fast and can avoid enemy fighters and flak on the way down and then egress quickly on the deck using that energy and be gone before you're picked up by fighters. 

 

This is how we managed to survive quite a few Stuka flights in FNBF a couple months ago, and how we managed to mostly survive in this video, and the same tactics could work on TAW. They would certainly work better than the tactics I see employed currently.

 

And I know 80hd was joking about the siren  ;) but seriously you have a death wish if you're carrying the siren on TAW. 12m/s speed loss IIRC and every VVS pilot will have their head on a swivel when they hear that thing!

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That is nice video, but you were not intercepted in it. While I also like to use Stuka as a dive bomber, I can't really see much difference in survivability, even if flying at 4k. It takes what, two minutes(?), for I-16 to climb from 2k to 4k. Some I-16's are around 3k already anyway and you will be discovered earlier when you are high. Even if manage to get your bombs on target, chances of getting back home are slim. Personally I can't see big difference in survavibility in a Stuka, no matter at what altitude you are intercepted.

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80hd' timestamp='1478192709' post='405917'] Пилоты Оси имеют 50% шанс  захвата D над вражеской территории. Allied 20%.

 

 This is true historically. Blue pilots always have the initiative in their hands, they can avoid the fight, to fight, and quickly get out of the fight.

All defines tactics. If you are not bogged down first card and immediately fought like yesterday - a victory would probably be yours.

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 This is true historically. Blue pilots always have the initiative in their hands, they can avoid the fight, to fight, and quickly get out of the fight.

All defines tactics. If you are not bogged down first card and immediately fought like yesterday - a victory would probably be yours.

 

 

Again, I was simply explaining why Blue will always lose more pilots, not disparaging the setting.

If it has been determined that  Red needs Blue to not carry heavy ordnance and also have a far greater chance to be captured (which definitely seems historically accurate) then so be it, Blue just has to deal with it.

 

But, to your point that "Blue pilots always have the initiative" that's only true from the so-called "Hartmanning" point of view... certainly, a savvy 109 flier can choose to stay high and fast and have zero impact on the ground war, and therefore the tactical air war, that's absolutely an option.  However, once you're lugging ords, or escorting Stukas doing the same, those advantages are immediately significantly mitigated.  

 

It's been quite interesting, very much a challenge and a big change from flying Red (this is my first time flying Axis in a long while) and I am looking forward to more.

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