Tactical Air War

[ciribob]

8 hours ago, Pict said:

 

This all sounded great to me until I read this thread and this bit...

 

 

I'm still on Win 7 and will for the foreseeable future.

It will work, ish, the layout of the overlay is a bit dodgy though

 

Just make sure you have the latest .net installed

[messsucher]

I can't login to TS server. I don't find the "in mission briefing" password, and those three words used as PW does not work either.

[todeskvlt]

15 minutes ago, messsucher said:

I can't login to TS server. I don't find the "in mission briefing" password, and those three words used as PW does not work either.

taw1942

[messsucher]

1 minute ago, =LG=todeskvlt said:

taw1942

 

Thanks.

[=RS=Stix_09]

On 10/11/2020 at 3:15 AM, MeoW.Scharfi said:

 

I am not complaining about why i am banned, i am cool with being banned here. That is all good. I am only calling out the attempts to insult, nothing else. ?

 

So you were a bad kitty? You must have been very bad.

 

12 hours ago, Pict said:

 

This all sounded great to me until I read this thread and this bit...

 

 

I'm still on Win 7 and will for the foreseeable future.

You can still use a windows 7 key to install windows 10, or update it.
https://www.howtogeek.com/509087/how-to-upgrade-from-windows-7-to-windows-10-for-free/

Unless you have some other reason to still run windows 7?

Edited October 12, 2020 by =RS=Stix_09

[Pict]

6 hours ago, ciribob said:

It will work, ish, the layout of the overlay is a bit dodgy though

 

Just make sure you have the latest .net installed

 

That's good news, thanks. I've never been a fan of overlays of any type, so that's not a drama for me 

 

3 hours ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

You can still use a windows 7 key to install windows 10, or update it.

Unless you have some other reason to still run windows 7?

 

Thank for the heads up, I was however already aware of that.

 

Yes, I prefer it.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Pict

[ciribob]

2 hours ago, Pict said:

 

That's good news, thanks. I've never been a fan of overlays of any type, so that's not a drama for me 

 

 

Thank for the heads up, I was however already aware of that.

 

Yes, I prefer it.

 

You can use the text to speech, that's what I use in VR

 

On windows 7, I really can't emphasize this enough, you need to bite the bullet and upgrade as without patches you have no protection. Even with 3rd party antivirus etc.

[Pict]

3 hours ago, ciribob said:

On windows 7, I really can't emphasize this enough, you need to bite the bullet and upgrade as without patches you have no protection. Even with 3rd party antivirus etc.

 

I appreciate the concern, but it really is a matter of opinion. I have no intention of upgrading to Win 10, as I don't want too, largely due to security reasons. I find Win 10 & MS more of a threat to my security than anything else, a read of Win10's eula was more than enough to put me off.

 

That's all I want to say about it now.

 

If I cannot get SRS to work in a useful way, I'll just continue with TS.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Pict

[VII.Racetrack]

Where can I write to any admins for a new squadron on the Register site?

[messsucher]

It seems you just login and create a squadron yourself.

[VII.Racetrack]

10 minutes ago, messsucher said:

It seems you just login and create a squadron yourself.

I have a problem on that that's the why I ask ehehe

[todeskvlt]

4 minutes ago, VII.Racetrack said:

I have a problem on that that's the why I ask ehehe

 

I wrote pm to you

[VII.Racetrack]

1 minute ago, =LG=todeskvlt said:

 

I wrote pm to you

Replied just now thanks

[SV7_Vase]

WTF wrong with some guys? Do we wait so long for TAW server to be launched and then this?

 

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=4502&name=E69_Hans_Luchov 

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=3869&name=E69_Hans_Luchov

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=3869&name=E69_Hans_Luchov

 

 

Only thinks guys do are going to smash some random groups of AI?

[THERION]

6 minutes ago, SV7_Vase said:

WTF wrong with some guys? Do we wait so long for TAW server to be launched and then this?

 

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=4502&name=E69_Hans_Luchov 

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=3869&name=E69_Hans_Luchov

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=3869&name=E69_Hans_Luchov

 

 

Only thinks guys do are going to smash some random groups of AI?

 

I don't see what's wrong with it? Apparently this guy chose to hunt some ground targets and suppress some AA, which makes sense on TAW,

as this is not only a dogfight server - each target destroyed, whether it is in the air or on the ground, will help the own side to win the map.

 

Maybe you don't understand the whole concept of TAW - Tactical Air War. This should tell you all you need to know for your next sortie.

 

Happy flying

[SV7_Vase]

4 minutes ago, THERION said:

 

I don't see what's wrong with it? Apparently this guy chose to hunt some ground targets and suppress some AA, which makes sense on TAW,

as this is not only a dogfight server - each target destroyed, whether it is in the air or on the ground, will help the own side to win the map.

 

Maybe you don't understand the whole concept of TAW - Tactical Air War. This should tell you all you need to know for your next sortie.

 

Happy flying

sure, im not understanding

my version of engage targets (tanks / artillery / etc.) which are attaking our AF might be wrong.

[todeskvlt]

23 minutes ago, SV7_Vase said:

WTF wrong with some guys? Do we wait so long for TAW server to be launched and then this?

 

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=4502&name=E69_Hans_Luchov 

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=3869&name=E69_Hans_Luchov

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=3869&name=E69_Hans_Luchov

 

 

Only thinks guys do are going to smash some random groups of AI?

 

If you destroy random troops there will be no notifications about enemies from them until end of the mission.

Edited October 12, 2020 by =LG=todeskvlt

[E69_Hans_luchs]

25 minutes ago, SV7_Vase said:

sure, im not understanding

my version of engage targets (tanks / artillery / etc.) which are attaking our AF might be wrong.

dont worry if you dont understand ,poor men

 

Salute

27 minutes ago, =LG=todeskvlt said:

 

If you destroy random troops there will be no notifications about enemies from them until end of the mission.

Yeah,thats right!!!!

 

Regards

49 minutes ago, SV7_Vase said:

WTF wrong with some guys? Do we wait so long for TAW server to be launched and then this?

 

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=4502&name=E69_Hans_Luchov 

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=3869&name=E69_Hans_Luchov

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=3869&name=E69_Hans_Luchov

 

 

Only thinks guys do are going to smash some random groups of AI?

And wahts the trouble with this???if you dont want im not going to attack them,i dont want disturb you.

Where do you want  to attack? Tell me grid 

 

omg thats real...

 

Regards

[2/JG26_rudidlo]

4 hours ago, Pict said:

I have no intention of upgrading to Win 10, as I don't want too, largely due to security reasons.

 

Is Windows 10 safer than Windows 7?

[UFA_Bagel]

Is anybody using SRS? Sounds silent or I am doing something wrong.

[J37_Spyboy]

@Pict if you like the look of Win7 and the presence of the start button have a look at Classic Shell. Win 10 with the look of Win 7

http://www.classicshell.net/

Apologies if you already know it.

Salute

[messsucher]

2 hours ago, E69_Hans_Luchov said:

dont worry if you dont understand ,poor men

 

Salute

Yeah,thats right!!!!

 

Regards

And wahts the trouble with this???if you dont want im not going to attack them,i dont want disturb you.

Where do you want  to attack? Tell me grid 

 

omg thats real...

 

Regards

 

 

I am curious what is happening here since I don't really know, but it appears there is something I should know what has not been written anywhere. Like is attacking random targets considering to be bad, and if it is, how one can know the recommended targets? And if I fly a fighter should I go escort random planes or fly CAP somewhere, and where? Where is the information if random war effort is frowned?

[E69_Qpassa_VR]

We need in the server statistics the number of players per side. At the moment is 42 vs 33?.

[FTC_HK]

57 minutes ago, elegz said:

Is anybody using SRS? Sounds silent or I am doing something wrong.

Yeah more people need to use it. @=LG=Kathon Can you add a recurring message in the chat or something to remind everyone to use SRS? that would be really useful.

[messsucher]

Lul 84/84 just when I tried to join.

[WokeUpDead]

2 hours ago, messsucher said:

 

 

I am curious what is happening here since I don't really know, but it appears there is something I should know what has not been written anywhere. Like is attacking random targets considering to be bad, and if it is, how one can know the recommended targets? And if I fly a fighter should I go escort random planes or fly CAP somewhere, and where? Where is the information if random war effort is frowned?

 

I think what Hans did is perfectly fine, especially if at the moment he flew the server numbers were out of balance. I tried mixing it up when it was 2 vs 20; not a good idea, haha. I should have gone and hit some AI earlier, like Hans did. Hitting AI targets on the map directly contributes to the front line moving the way you want it to, hitting random AI prevents them from shooting and alerting the opposition to your presence.

[messsucher]

57 minutes ago, WokeUpDead said:

 

I think what Hans did is perfectly fine, especially if at the moment he flew the server numbers were out of balance. I tried mixing it up when it was 2 vs 20; not a good idea, haha. I should have gone and hit some AI earlier, like Hans did. Hitting AI targets on the map directly contributes to the front line moving the way you want it to, hitting random AI prevents them from shooting and alerting the opposition to your presence.

 

Alright.

 

First time airborne today. Damn it was cool! I-16 is a spirited little beast. The flight just ended abrupt because the mission ended. Anyway makes hell lot of difference to play online and in this kind of free-for-all running campaign. I think I like this more than SEOW, in which it is such a hassle to get flying.

 

[KoN_]

3 hours ago, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

We need in the server statistics the number of players per side. At the moment is 42 vs 33?.

That`s good numbers . 

Try 50 v 24 . ? 

Is transport a CM mission . 

Edited October 12, 2020 by KoN_

[FTC_Prancing]

We need squad leaders to be on SRS, such a waste to not use it to organize big packages and keep comms

[SV7_Vase]

7 hours ago, E69_Hans_Luchov said:

dont worry if you dont understand ,poor men

 

Salute

Yeah,thats right!!!!

 

Regards

And wahts the trouble with this???if you dont want im not going to attack them,i dont want disturb you.

Where do you want  to attack? Tell me grid 

 

omg thats real...

 

Regards

 

 

yeah, the whole red faction will give you a like for that....

every one try to support attaks of tanks to cap enemy fields and guy like you (and you are not alone) just doing fighting for stats. in 3am european cetral time, we had 3 v 3. and there was no need for destroying random AA to hide your attaks. 

 

so like all of your stats, it was only just for pushing E69 stats and not for pushing RED side to victory. 

 

but maybe im wrong and i have to reflect my own opinion for real goal of TAW missions 

 

BTW, stay there on this tactics and i will get my every day easy kill like yesterday

Edited October 12, 2020 by SV7_Vase

[Roger_Meatball]

Server admins, you HAVE to bring back technochat. IL-2 is not built to be fully controllable without it. There are so many systems that have no cockpit indication of their status: radiators, weapons, trim and flaps wheels. Even with head tracking to quickly look around the cockpit, there are some systems that aren't viewable within standard head-tracking angles: things on the floor, down by elbows, etc. There are even options like "drop multiple bombs" that HAVE NO STATUS indication other than technochat - some planes have multiple bomb levers that a pilot either pulls separately or simultaneously, and the only way to know for certain what will happen when you press "release" is to never use those buttons at all. German planes might be automated enough to get away without technochat, but Soviet planes have too many interfaces that were left to pilot feel and training. This design decision is not better simulating the piloting experience - it is only better simulating the "use a keyboard and whatever hardware you own to manage an imperfect set of user inputs from your desk chair" experience.

[richarrrd]

2 minutes ago, Roger_Meatball said:

Server admins, you HAVE to bring back technochat. 

[...]

This design decision is not better simulating the piloting experience - it is only better simulating the "use a keyboard and whatever hardware you own to manage an imperfect set of user inputs from your desk chair" experience.

 

I could not agree more. Some of the Soviet planes just have no indicators of their state. It's one thing if we have to keep an eye on our manifold pressure and oil temp using the clear gauges in front of us. It's quite another to remember what the default state of a system is and memorize how many times we need to press vs. have pressed a given button to do something like set bomb  release and timing buttons on our keyboards. 

 

Having technochat doesn't make the game easier or give a pilot an advantage. Ensuring my engine won't explode or that I can actually drop bombs are minimum requirements to flight in this game. One still has to be a competent pilot to not get clobbered on this server, even with all the "advantages" of technochat. 

 

This choice just makes the game a grueling un-engaging mess.

[JG7_X-Man]

So I am a tad confused? The F-2 did see battle in the opening of Operation Barbarossa right?

[SV7_Vase]

24 minutes ago, Roger_Meatball said:

Server admins, you HAVE to bring back technochat. IL-2 is not built to be fully controllable without it. There are so many systems that have no cockpit indication of their status: radiators, weapons, trim and flaps wheels. Even with head tracking to quickly look around the cockpit, there are some systems that aren't viewable within standard head-tracking angles: things on the floor, down by elbows, etc. There are even options like "drop multiple bombs" that HAVE NO STATUS indication other than technochat - some planes have multiple bomb levers that a pilot either pulls separately or simultaneously, and the only way to know for certain what will happen when you press "release" is to never use those buttons at all. German planes might be automated enough to get away without technochat, but Soviet planes have too many interfaces that were left to pilot feel and training. This design decision is not better simulating the piloting experience - it is only better simulating the "use a keyboard and whatever hardware you own to manage an imperfect set of user inputs from your desk chair" experience.

 

17 minutes ago, richarrrd said:

 

I could not agree more. Some of the Soviet planes just have no indicators of their state. It's one thing if we have to keep an eye on our manifold pressure and oil temp using the clear gauges in front of us. It's quite another to remember what the default state of a system is and memorize how many times we need to press vs. have pressed a given button to do something like set bomb  release and timing buttons on our keyboards. 

 

Having technochat doesn't make the game easier or give a pilot an advantage. Ensuring my engine won't explode or that I can actually drop bombs are minimum requirements to flight in this game. One still has to be a competent pilot to not get clobbered on this server, even with all the "advantages" of technochat. 

 

This choice just makes the game a grueling un-engaging mess.

https://warthunder.com

[messsucher]

Now better fly a lot before computer min maxer people get what they want, minute accurate data!

 

There is no issues to talk about with Polikarpov I-16.

 

- You can count seconds when lower landing flaps, though there is landing flap meter I have never used.

- Keep mixture at 100%, but if you go very high you can count two second button press to decrease it.

- Use throttle with your gut feelings and instruments.

- Keep oil radiator open and inlet cowl shutter control at 1/3 open, decrease prop rpm by 1 second button press from max and have fun without having to worry about engine.

- If you need max performance shut things down, maybe increase prop RPM, and check your instruments for temps. Let things cool down asap when you can full open, so that you are quick prepared for next max performance requirement.

 

These I figured out after like 1 hour of VR flying, and could get closure on CPU F2 bf 109. Perfecting them may and will give different values, but with those values you can do combat flying. No technochat needed. Irl pilots did not have tecnochat either but used muscle memory to push levers and listened and felt the engine.

 

Technochat bad. Better know your machine and really have to use instruments. You are supposed to manage your engine and systems, not adjust them with 1mm minute detail accuracy, which would had been IRL impossible also because planes a bit individuals and not 100% blind carbon copies.

 

We have it more easy than IRL pilots even without technochat. Why make it even more easy?

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

27 minutes ago, messsucher said:

We have it more easy than IRL pilots even without technochat. Why make it even more easy?

 

No, real pilots can feel the position of the levers and estimate how much they open/close them without having to look at them. Having to look at operating physical controls or counting seconds while doing so is clunky as hell and a clear case of harder is not more realistic.

This could all have been solved with a small unintrusive gui next to the G meter load similar to what clod has, without giving away precise percentages. Sadly when I suggested this it wasn't implemented.



There are even planes that don't have any visual cues of certain settings given they are not animated/modelled in the cockpit, or the crew members positions being too restrictive without being able to crawl around the cockpits.

[messsucher]

3 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

 

No, real pilots can feel the position of the levers and estimate how much they open/close them without having to look at them. Having to look at operating physical controls or counting seconds while doing so is clunky as hell and a clear case of harder is not more realistic.

This could all have been solved with a small unintrusive gui next to the G meter load similar to what clod has, without giving away precise percentages. Sadly when I suggested this it wasn't implemented.



There are even planes that don't have any visual cues of certain settings given they are not animated/modelled in the cockpit, or the crew members positions being too restrictive without being able to crawl around the cockpits.

 

Yeah, when cruising etc. they could feel. But I doubt they could feel everything very good in the heat of the battle, they just did the best they could, and some pilots were better in doing the best they could. Anyway, that's why I want to have levers myself, and maybe some day will get. If you don't have levers and want to have say similar control, then you maybe should get levers like you get joystick or pedals.

 

The picture you posted is from CloD? It had some levers always visible? It irritated the heck of me. I want to replace those levers with real levers or turning knobs, whichever work better.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Yes they are always on afaik (dunno if the user can turn them off) You can also turn them into percentages if you wish. I personally like them given they do their job nicely and are quite small

Edited October 12, 2020 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[messsucher]

Just now, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

Yes they are always on afaik. You can also turn them into percentages if you wish. I personally like them given they do their job nicely and are quite small

 

Yeah, I like them a lot more than percentages. But still happy that now have to figure levers or turn knobs to replace them, and have to use the tactile feeling IRL pilots had.

[Roger_Meatball]

1 hour ago, messsucher said:

You can count seconds when lower landing flaps, though there is landing flap meter I have never used.

Counting seconds is absolutely absurd. And when we apply more flaps farther into the engagement? And when we are unwinding flaps, ought we watch the dial as we crank it backwards? With our eyes? To know if we hit the stops or get to 10%? Is this piloting? 

 

To the collection of players on here who preach "realism" when the limitations they suggest are just the handicaps inherent to restricting interface between player and simulated airplane to visual gauges on a 2D computer screen, you are only crippling the success of your servers and of this video game. You are misunderstanding the difference between piloting an aircraft and knowing the limitations of an aircraft with replicating that aircraft through a 1:1 visual model.

 

Technochat exists to bridge the gap between mechanical information the developers can communicate visually and the information a pilot would otherwise interpret through physical feel, out subtlety of sounds/smells/any other sensation. 

 

Technochat acknowledges that our favorite sim is inherently imperfect in its ability to translate the piloting experience to a computer monitor. Treating it like "baby mode" is inherently wrong, and practically will ensure your server is always less full than it could be. 

33 minutes ago, messsucher said:

 

Yeah, when cruising etc. they could feel. But I doubt they could feel everything very good in the heat of the battle, 

What do you mean "you doubt"? Do you want me to pull out some pilot memoirs? Do you need me to quote lines from pilots who "knew their machines" about how subtleties of sound and feel and smell played into their awareness of engine performance?

 

When you talk about learning a machine, pilots learned them with their eyes, hands, feet, ears, butt, nose. We pretty much only have eyes with a tiny bit of ears. The devs know that so they add bits like technochat to make up for the deficiencies. Knowing if your radiator is at 1/3 open by lever feel and by a number on a screen saying 33% are the same thing. Neither tells you want the effect on the airplane is at that setting - it just informs you the current state of the radiator. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Roger_Meatball