Tactical Air War

[LLv24_Zami]

1 minute ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

You must be a rocket scientist! ?

Well, judging by your stories here on forums, compared to you I am ?

[=FSB=Man-Yac]

This seems like the beginning of a beautiful romantic relationship between @LLv24_Zami and @666GIAP_Chimango

 

Question is, will the babies fly red or blue?

[LLv24_Zami]

15 minutes ago, =FSB=Man-Yac said:

This seems like the beginning of a beautiful romantic relationship between @LLv24_Zami and @666GIAP_Chimango

 

Question is, will the babies fly red or blue?

Yeah, we'we had a tons of fun. It's great ?

[=FSB=Man-Yac]

[Chivas_Regal]

5 hours ago, LLv24_Zami said:

 

I just posted these to balance your whining

Balance it with your whining ? )

[LLv24_Zami]

14 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Balance it with your whining ? )

Please clarify, where I was whining? 

 

I'm still learning from pros like you so maybe I missed something

 

 

[Chivas_Regal]

7 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Please clarify, where I was whining? 

 

I'm still learning from pros like you so maybe I missed something

 

 

Please show me where Chimango or I whined and we'll compare)

[=BES=Senor_Jefe]

7 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Not if the server disconnects him, there is a detection for that if I remember correctly. It has happened to me both ways as well, especially due to the overstrain internet in Germany, where the server resides. 

 

The way you speak "suicide mission into an airbase" and "then pussy out" is too disrespectful for my taste. First, Polo never "suicide missions" anywhere, he knows what he's doing. He's one of our best who can handle all aircrafts and situations. Then: Calling a Winchester away from angry fighters "to pussy out" is either just bait or deplorable. 

 

 

Sinerox is probably too polite and upright of a guy to tell you, so I'm doing that: We don't owe you anything Senor Jefe, won't punish one of our dearest members just because you bend a story, your assumptions are insulting to say the least. Go to hell. 

You boys are wound pretty tight eh?  Remember I don't know Polo, so I judge by what I see.  The type of man he is, is of zero consequence to me.  "Good men" do stupid shit all the time and to think it's a disqualifier of such behavior is either naive or willfully blind. 

 

I guess I need to be more polite like I'm talking with my grandmother around you guys, so you don't get offended by one krass comment.  So here it goes:

 

From my perspective, and those around me it was as such:

 

I shot down an IL2 (not sure how, because I missed 90%of my shots and was shocked to see it in the log later), then got bounced by a yak and broke off to kill him.  On my lazy and damaged flight home, I see a fighter zooming from the nearest base chasing me.  Even as I turn to land, it follows me in, all the while getting shot to hell by flak.  Targets only me (odd, I felt, at the time) and flies off getting chased by flak and fighters, continuing to be hit.  I think, "Golly, this lad sure is salty with me if he comes to shoot me when I have my wheels down and not going for the easy targets around me that would result in at least one kill; probably three."  I paraphrased that last part to make it sensible for those who cannot handle a negative or snide remark.

 

So then I go see in the logs who this Salty Sally was, only to see that it was a revenge kill attempt, alone, and right into the heart of the only base we had any planes, and the guy left in-flight.  Convenient. And yes, can be construed as a suicide mission.

 

Guess next time I get ripped to shreds by Sinerox and Wulfe - likely tonight - I'll just go ahead and remove my power cord from the back of my pc while I'm falling in a burning heap.

 

I'm not going to apologize for the post above, slandering your diety based on the information I have and not the word of his cult following.  But if in the off chance that this incredibly convenient excuse is legitimate, then I will be at peace that his mission didn't count as disco.

 

However this is something the admins should revisit.  What hurts the server more; people who do what I said above and pulling the plug to not count as disco or dead, or the rare power outage you might experience within 5 min of battle?

Edited May 6, 2020 by =BES=Senor_Jefe

[LLv24_Zami]

2 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Please show me where Chimango or I whined and we'll compare)

I think you know, just read your old comments. It's easy. I think we all remember those though ?

 

My posts which you refer are in this same page, basically saying that it's normal to have variations in balance. Some heavy whining yeah 

[FTC_Prancing]

DISCO rule need to be adjusted for sure, happen that it punish people for no reason and doesnt punish people who deserved punishment, talking in general here, first of all, the damage received thing must be applied for every kind of damage received, not only if it's received by planes, if you disco after, for example, you dive and lose ailerons, you dont get DISCO but IN FLIGHT. just an example. @JG700_Benek eheh 

we should probably have a rule that look for the range between you and the nearest enemy plane or territory to apply DISCO or not, but even that might be exploitable. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Prancingkiller

[Chivas_Regal]

31 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

I think you know. I think we all remember those though

I often hear something like this from people who really have nothing more to say. Just as I thought from the beginning)

[LLv24_Zami]

4 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

I often hear something like this from people who really have nothing more to say. Just as I thought from the beginning)

I often hear from you a question answered with a question. I think we all know what that means. 

 

Pathetic, I expected more of you but it's the same as before

 

[FTC_Prancing]

never forget https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=42993&name=JG700_Benek

I've had joy malfunction to be precise one the centering springs was broken I didnt saw any1 near so i disco

Edited May 6, 2020 by Prancingkiller

[FTC_Prancing]

18 hours ago, WokeUpBlue said:

You could also eliminate the lives system completely, but have planes available tied to your experience score. If you die often with a -300 point penalty per death, you'll be left with 0 experience and just the most basic planes in your hangar.

that's interesting

[SCG_Wulfe]

18 minutes ago, Prancingkiller said:

that's interesting

 

It is, and it could probably bring back more of the casual player types... But at the same time, it would give up an awful lot of what TAW is about, to give up that incentive to limp your plane home at all costs, except for your life. I really think the 3 life per map limit is a big part of the problem. I've been impacted by it for the second time ever in TAW, due to my own stupidity, but... nevertheless I won't be flying TAW this afternoon when I could have been. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[Chivas_Regal]

5 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

You asked me first about my posts, there`s nothing unclear about that. There`s nothing else to say until you answer

Here you need quotes. You don't have to invent anything. All I asked from the beginning was to confirm what you said, if you want me to confirm it. You couldn't say anything back, so you started insulting me. You don't seem capable of anything else.

[LLv24_Zami]

2 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

You don't seem capable of anything else.

Ditto!

[Chivas_Regal]

5 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Ditto

Think whatever you want. I've had enough of the way you've shown yourself, hero )

[WokeUpDead]

3 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

It is, and it could probably bring back more of the casual player types... But at the same time, it would give up an awful lot of what TAW is about, to give up that incentive to limp your plane home at all costs, except for your life. I really think the 3 life per map limit is a big part of the problem. I've been impacted by it for the second time ever in TAW, due to my own stupidity, but... nevertheless I won't be flying TAW this afternoon when I could have been. 

 

I guess it's a matter of balance. Hardcore is great, but too hardcore and even some squad players get turned off. I think there would still be an incentive to limp home knowing that if you don't, you'll lose one or two of your top planes.

 

In general, I'd be OK if the life system was eliminated but the penalties for ditching, or even landing a moderately damaged plane were more severe. For example if your sole F4 or La5 has holes in the wing or engine damage or many leaks when it lands then you can't use it for the rest of the mission, maybe even the next mission.

[Matthias_PDX]

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here. This is the war room!

[=FSB=Man-Yac]

I would be all for abolishing the 3 life rules. People are already limited in planes and by the complexity of the server already. As the map goes on it gets very hard to shoot people down because they are the pilots who know how to keep their 3 lives.

 

Give me some canon fodder plssss

[SCG_Wulfe]

7 minutes ago, WokeUpBlue said:

 

I guess it's a matter of balance. Hardcore is great, but too hardcore and even some squad players get turned off. I think there would still be an incentive to limp home knowing that if you don't, you'll lose one or two of your top planes.

 

In general, I'd be OK if the life system was eliminated but the penalties for ditching, or even landing a moderately damaged plane were more severe. For example if your sole F4 or La5 has holes in the wing or engine damage or many leaks when it lands then you can't use it for the rest of the mission, maybe even the next mission.

 

You are absolutely right. It is a balance. I wouldn't want to see the loss of a plane for the next mission for bringing it home damaged. That happens far too often and you just want get back in the action, if you've just worked hard to get that plane home, you should be rewarded for it. 

 

But, I am all for getting rid of the 3 life rule. I think it has had more of a damaging impact than we know. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[Chivas_Regal]

The 3-life rule only restricts players from the side that is currently in the majority. I do not think that if such players are allowed to take off and the advantage of this side becomes even greater, it will somehow improve the atmosphere on the server.

[WokeUpDead]

6 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

The 3-life rule only restricts players from the side that is currently in the majority. I do not think that if such players are allowed to take off and the advantage of this side becomes even greater, it will somehow improve the atmosphere on the server.

 

That's a very obscure rule that only someone who reads this thread carefully will know. Everyone else will see this question chatted in game: "how come I'm getting kicked?"  - "because you died 3 times, come back in 20 hours"

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

Please keep the 3 deaths rule. When I have to work, I quickly connect to the server in the morning, die, and then work the whole day without the temptation to fly TAW amid working.

[Chivas_Regal]

24 minutes ago, WokeUpBlue said:

 

That's a very obscure rule that only someone who reads this thread carefully will know. Everyone else will see this question chatted in game: "how come I'm getting kicked?"  - "because you died 3 times, come back in 20 hours"

This means that it is not the rule itself that is bad, but the inattention of some people who play on this server.

Rule 3 lives on the contrary perfectly balances the sides and does not allow the bigger side to become even bigger

That's all this rule does now

[Aero*Bohemio]

On 5/5/2020 at 4:09 PM, WokeUpBlue said:

You could also eliminate the lives system completely, but have planes available tied to your experience score. If you die often with a -300 point penalty per death, you'll be left with 0 experience and just the most basic planes in your hangar.

This is a great idea mate, it has been proposed here before  by @=FPS=Cutlass and actually it was implemented in our dear il2 1946 (russian server il2.org war). There worked great, pilots who did well and took care of their aircraft would have access to better planes, and pilots dieing often or losing planes regularly would get stucked with basic ones. At the end of the day the 3 lives limit was introduced to avoid suicidal behaviour of people exploiting this, going arcade mode to damage the map. So any feature that helps remove that, i'm sure it's welcomed.

The issue is, AFAIK, there are scripting limitations to do this...same thing with another great option we had in ADW (il2 1946) where squads would choose the line of fighters they would fly the whole campaign, and if your unit was successfull, it would be able to access to a limited number of bonus planes, which were planes ahead of it's time (ie having 109G14/La5FN in map #6); but all this again was not doable due to scripting limitations.


***

Edited May 6, 2020 by 666GIAP_Chimango

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

There was xJammer who repeatedly went to attack airfields (dying often in the process) until their flak was gone, landed, and spawncamped using his tailgunner, shooting spawning pilots right in the head. He even used just one or two shots, to save ammunition.

 

Hence we got the 3 Life rule shortly afterwards.

Edited May 6, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[SCG_Wulfe]

1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

There was xJammer who repeatedly went to attack airfields (dying often in the process) until their flak was gone, landed, and spawncamped using his tailgunner, shooting spawning pilots right in the head. He even used just one or two shots, to save ammunition.

 

Hence we got the 3 Life rule shortly afterwards.

 

You’re right, this is exactly why this rule was created. It worked to stop this behaviour, but honestly I’d rather have some of this unfortunate  behaviour happen and a full server than what we have now during the evening.

Edited May 6, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[AKA_Relent]

27 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

You’re right, this is exactly why this rule was created. It worked to stop this behaviour, but honestly I’d rather have some of this unfortunate  behaviour happen and a full server than what we have now during the evening.

One way to avoid the behavior mentioned is to have a couple of small caliber AAA gun mounts at each airfield with the following characteristics:

 

- Position them near aircraft spawn points, to provide protection 

 

- Change them to either invulnerable, OR (so planes attacking them will get some benefit of AAA suppression) have them respawn automatically after 10 minutes.

 

This way, even if someone killed all the flak/AAA and landed (in order to park and try plunking newly spawned aircraft pilots with a tail gunner), those small caliber AAA would respawn and hopefully tear that enemy lander/spawn killer to shreds :).

[Aero*Bohemio]

1 hour ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

You’re right, this is exactly why this rule was created. It worked to stop this behaviour, but honestly I’d rather have some of this unfortunate  behaviour happen and a full server than what we have now during the evening.

Exactly the same i said. And your approach is wrong, you assume people don't fly it (actually only some, other still fly it)  because of the 3 lives rule, and that's not the case.

[FAE_Azor]

13 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

Exactly the same i said. And your approach is wrong, you assume people don't fly it (actually only some, other still fly it)  because of the 3 lives rule, and that's not the case.

I do not agree with you Chimango,  we do not fly anymore through the 3 lives rule and the excessive penalty, if you take into account the effectiveness of the AAA, (the only way to advance on the map is eliminating tanks) you lose three lives in two days and each time with fewer attack or fighter planes, and have to wait 20 hours, so at the end you joint to other servers and stay on it.

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by FAE_Azor

[FTC_Prancing]

Another way could be to find ways to increase lives

[Charvet]

40 minutes ago, Prancingkiller said:

Another way could be to find ways to increase lives

If you max CM Planes, maybe any more groups of 3 cms add to a life?

[LLv24_Zami]

As some sort of simple compromise, I would keep the system but raise the life count to the 4 or 5. I think it would be worth to test at least.

 

And of course manual has to be updated, even though few people read it before posting inquiry to the chat.

[SCG_Syn]

These are good numbers

[Aero*Bohemio]

6 minutes ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

These are good numbers

What's your point? One airfield left, map and whole current edition almost lost... no motivation to join. It wasn't the case till map #4 included, and beggining of current #5. Also in previous map load there were almost 20 people in the server, LW guys got a beating, they left.
 

[Chivas_Regal]

1 hour ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

These are good numbers

You're probably trying to show that all the players from North America have lost all their lives and therefore can't fly on TAW, although they really want to? If right now the lives are endless, the server will immediately overflow?

According to statistics, the parties have lost almost the same number of pilots 547/538. There are 1,447 registered players for the blue side and 1,218 registered players for the red side. But there are red players on the server, and there are no blue ones. It looks strange.

Perhaps this is due to the uneven distribution of red and blue time zones

There are currently 10 red and 1 blue on the server. This means that 8 players of the blue team will choose to go to the server and take off safely, even if they have spent all their lives. But they don't do it for some reason.

I think that the situation on the map is much more demotivating. Many may not want to waste their time on a situation where the blue side's victory is almost lost. And this is not just a problem for this campaign. In previous campaigns, it was the same, only then the blue players dominated.

[LLv24_Zami]

Sincerely congrats to the red team for the win in TAW, it clearly means a lot to you ?

 

[=FSB=Man-Yac]

Losing airfields overnight is really frustrating. But I am impressed at how red squads are effective and destroying tank columns with ease. The il-2 has made it's glorious comeback with new damage model and good use with fighter cover.

 

A bit sad that blue already lost this taw, I believed ?