Tactical Air War

[JG1_Shadepiece]

LG do you guys use the same stats plug in the WoL uses, or have you developed your own way to pull stats off the Dserver?

[curiousGamblerr]

"curiousGamblerr leads the Nineteenth on an attack run"

Edited January 13, 2018 by 19//curiousGamblerr

[HenHawk]

Looking forward to flying ur wing again Hawk!

Definitely! Promises to be a lot of fun, but I better stay on your wing.... I can only lead a lawn dart in the right direction!

[=LG/F=Kathon]

LG do you guys use the same stats plug in the WoL uses, or have you developed your own way to pull stats off the Dserver?

I develop my own script to pull stats from log files.

[JG1_Shadepiece]

May I ask what code you used for your own script?

[Leutnant_Artur]

May I ask what code you used for your own script?

An enigma code

[JG1_Shadepiece]

I mean just what language, but fair play.

[curiousGamblerr]

An enigma code

I understand you're kidding, but I do wish you guys and other folks would open source at least some of your code. This community could really benefit from some core shared tools, like a log parser for example, instead of everyone reinventing the wheel every time they want to build something cool like this server.

 

This isn't meant as a dig at you guys, TAW is awesome and we all love your work. Mostly just a general sentiment I've felt for a while in this community and I'm not sure how to encourage change.

[=IL2AU=chappyj]

I understand you're kidding, but I do wish you guys and other folks would open source at least some of your code. This community could really benefit from some core shared tools, like a log parser for example, instead of everyone reinventing the wheel every time they want to build something cool like this server.

 

This isn't meant as a dig at you guys, TAW is awesome and we all love your work. Mostly just a general sentiment I've felt for a while in this community and I'm not sure how to encourage change.

1000% agree

I also really think the devs should play a part in this and take on some of the great work that taw or random expert (afaik the devs allowed extra access to code to the random expert guys ?) Package it up and give it a gui and create something more accessible to people

Right now you need to be a coder or ready to do a lot of learning to create something like a dynamic campaign. Even just getting a d server up with a standard stats package is a pretty hard job for the average player

[Blakhart]

I understand you're kidding, but I do wish you guys and other folks would open source at least some of your code. This community could really benefit from some core shared tools, like a log parser for example, instead of everyone reinventing the wheel every time they want to build something cool like this server.

 

This isn't meant as a dig at you guys, TAW is awesome and we all love your work. Mostly just a general sentiment I've felt for a while in this community and I'm not sure how to encourage change.

 

1000% agree

I also really think the devs should play a part in this and take on some of the great work that taw or random expert (afaik the devs allowed extra access to code to the random expert guys ?) Package it up and give it a gui and create something more accessible to people

Right now you need to be a coder or ready to do a lot of learning to create something like a dynamic campaign. Even just getting a d server up with a standard stats package is a pretty hard job for the average player

 

This is just  just disrespectful to Kathon`s effort and all hard hours which he spent on TAW code.

 

Grow up and learn that things have value.

[curiousGamblerr]

TAW is awesome and we all love your work.

 

Yes, incredibly disrespectful   Kathon and I have had a perfectly pleasant interaction working on TAW integration with il2missionplanner.com the past few weeks, I'm confident he knows I mean no disrespect. (the mission planner is entirely open source, by the way https://github.com/gavincabbage/il2missionplanner.com )

 

Continuing with the parser example, we've got ten different parsers written for the log files by as many people. It would make a whole lot more sense for everyone in the community to work together on a single, rock solid parsing library instead of everyone having to start from scratch whenever they want to build something for the community. I'm encouraging folks to open source some of their code so myself and others can help. Open source code is one of the most powerful ideas in software engineering today and has allowed countless communities like ourselves to thrive through collaboration and team work. That doesn't take away value, quite the contrary in fact.

 

I'm not going to push the issue further, it is ultimately each developer's choice. As for myself, every line of code I ever write for this game will open sourced, every tool will be free, and every API will be public (anyone need some map tiles for their next project? here ya go, served by a secure, global CDN, for free https://tiles.il2missionplanner.com/moscow/2/2/2.png

Edited January 15, 2018 by 19//curiousGamblerr

[=IL2AU=chappyj]

This is just just disrespectful to Kathon`s effort and all hard hours which he spent on TAW code.

 

Grow up and learn that things have value.

LOL there is nothing disrespectful in acknowledging the good work someone has done and discussing how it can be further opened up to everyone and for the betterment of the game

grow up mate

[=LG/F=Kathon]

This is just just disrespectful to Kathon`s effort and all hard hours which he spent on TAW code.

 

Grow up and learn that things have value.

You must have misunderstood them. Edited January 15, 2018 by =LG=Kathon

[Krau]

What is about a beginning a new campaign?

 

1 week?

2 weeks?

3 weeks?

 

For some reason it is only WOL these days... So painfull.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Kra

[Barbaros]

?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

This is just just disrespectful to Kathon`s effort and all hard hours which he spent on TAW code.

 

Grow up and learn that things have value.

LOL ! Are you serious ? Making code available to everyone only will help Kathon and make TAW better. But this is his call.

[=LG/F=Kathon]

I mean just what language, but fair play.

In my case it's Perl, but the language is irrelevant. It can be done in any language because log files are simple text files. 

 

 

 

What is about a beginning a new campaign?

 

1 week?

2 weeks?

3 weeks?

 

For some reason it is only WOL these days... So painfull.

 

The plan is to start this weekend.

[curiousGamblerr]

Hey now guys, let's keep in civil.

 

The Wings of Liberty thread is total mayhem right now, let's not bring that craziness here.

 

That's awesome Kathon! Just about another week then!

[StG77_Kondor]

Sounds great Kathon! Looking forward to participating and seeing what changes have been made.

[Operatsiya_Ivy]

In my case it's Perl, but the language is irrelevant. It can be done in any language because log files are simple text files. 

 

 

 

 

The plan is to start this weekend.

 

Can you give us a sneak peak on upcoming changes? or maybe even a changelog? would be very much appreciated

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

The P-40 can be looked on, as a ground attacker, as the poor man's IL-2. It can carry a decent sized bomb, but only one. It can carry 4 rockets, but only the small ones that aren't all that useful in my experience. The guns are powerful enough for MGs and they can pack a lot of ammo. With the guns you can take out all the light vehicles and even the ships with enough determination, but beyond that you aren't going to find much luck. I've seen some speculation that you can bust some of the light tanks with them, but I've never tried it myself in earnest; I bet you could top deck a Stug with them if you are lucky but not much more than that. In the TAW environment I think their best use would be to clear out the AA on a target for the more capable ground ponders. Once the AA is dealt with the P-40 could, in a pinch, provide an anti-fighter screen; but as soon as the Germans get their hands on anything faster than an 109-F2 the P-40 is going to be hard pressed. Working in close coordination 2 P-40's can deal with a 109, but in 1 on 1 combat my money is on the 109 in most cases.

It can take out Pz38(t) reliably, did it a few times in the quickmission (I seemed to get them as a tank target more often in the VL map), just hit the rear half of the tank (from the side). 

[Leutnant_Artur]

Can you give us a sneak peak on upcoming changes? or maybe even a changelog? would be very much appreciated

Wait for changelog

 

Registration will be open few days before campaign start.

[Krau]

The plan is to start this weekend.

 

Lovely !!! TY !!!!!

[-SF-Disarray]

It can take out Pz38(t) reliably, did it a few times in the quickmission (I seemed to get them as a tank target more often in the VL map), just hit the rear half of the tank (from the side). 

 

To be honest, I've not tried putting it to use busting light tanks. The typical ground strike role I use it for is AA suppression and train hunting, the former because it is really good at it and the latter because it is really fun to shoot up trains with all those guns. Logically, if the guns can punch out a train's boiler I'd expect it to go through a Pz38, I can't imagine the metal being much thicker, but then again I don't know all that much about train boilers. I'd say it is worth trying at least once. If worse comes to worse you can shred the AA guns, making way for a more substantial tank buster.

[JG1_Shadepiece]

Wait for changelog

 

Registration will be open few days before campaign start.

Awesome! So glad pre-registration is going to be a thing!

 

Kathon, I appreciate your work, and I'm glad you weren't put off as hart would have suggested.

 

It just seems so counter productive that everyone has to reinvent the wheel everytime they want to bring something to the community. Although, I totally understand guys not wanting to hand out things they've worked so hard on for free. I probably don't know enough to use it even if I had it haha!

 

Either way very glad to hear that the new campaign will be up soon!! Cheers to you, gents.

[Waspy]

A week to decide if the reds or the blues will be burdened with my mediocre abilities, i cant wait for the campaign to start.

[StG77_Kondor]

It can take out Pz38(t) reliably, did it a few times in the quickmission (I seemed to get them as a tank target more often in the VL map), just hit the rear half of the tank (from the side). 

Not trying to start another flame war here. But unless someone has better numbers this is what I've found for the Pz.38(t) armor:

 

Side: 30mm

Rear: 30mm

Roof: 15mm

Turret: 30mm/30mm/8mm respectively

 

This is for the up-armored version, the Ausf. F. I don't recall which one we have in the game, but there's no way .50 M2 should penetrate even 15mm of armor, right?

Edited January 15, 2018 by StG77_Kondor

[Waspy]

 

 

This is for the up-armored version, the Ausf. F. I don't recall which one we have in the game, but there's no way .50 M2 should penetrate even 15mm of armor, right?

 

 

im not sure how accurate this is but it might help 

M8 API:

The 12.7mm M8 API bullet has been around for a very long time. It is almost as old as the M2HB itself. I believe it was first introduced during WW2, as a further development of the M2 AP bullet.

At muzzle velocity, the 12.7mm M8 API will penetrate ~25mm of steel. However, like all rifle and machine-gun bullets, the M8 API is a relatively light projectile (40 g). Therefore, it loses its energy fairly rapidly. As a result the same bullet will only penetrate ~16mm of steel at 500m and ~13mm at 1000m.

[-SF-Disarray]

Based on what I can find the M8 API round can penetrate 16 mm of steel at 500 m and 13 mm at 1000 m. There is a better round M903 SLAP that can do 34 mm at 500 m and 27 mm at 1000 m, but I think that is a newer round. So shooting through the top deck might be a way to get inside the tank

[StG77_Kondor]

im not sure how accurate this is but it might help 

M8 API:

The 12.7mm M8 API bullet has been around for a very long time. It is almost as old as the M2HB itself. I believe it was first introduced during WW2, as a further development of the M2 AP bullet.

At muzzle velocity, the 12.7mm M8 API will penetrate ~25mm of steel. However, like all rifle and machine-gun bullets, the M8 API is a relatively light projectile (40 g). Therefore, it loses its energy fairly rapidly. As a result the same bullet will only penetrate ~16mm of steel at 500m and ~13mm at 1000m.

Thank you! This is similar to what I've been finding with quick googling. I believe what we have in game is just the standard M2 AP round. But even if that performs slightly less than this advanced M8, the .50 shouldn't have a problem penetrating a Panzer III turret from any direction. Or a Panzer IV turret from the roof. Both of which to me seems very optimistic. All considering the vastly overstated effect of USAAF/RAF airpower against German armor in Normandy. 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Oh snap. I will return on January 30th. This will be my first TAW campaign (I played a few days in the old one only). Will I miss a lot of it in the first 8 days?

[StG77_Kondor]

. Will I miss a lot of it in the first 8 days?

Probably just the first two maps . 

[-SF-Disarray]

Depends on how things shake out. Whole maps have ended in shorter time frames. On the other hand some maps last weeks.

[Grajo]

Loving TAW so far, keep up the good work guys! 

Edited January 15, 2018 by HR_Grajo

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

I think the back part of the side armor right over engine (not the front boxy party that sticks out) is not as thickly armored. At any rate the one we have in the game can be penned by the .50 M2, it is ridiculous that I would make that up, and this was just a week or 2 ago so not faulty memory

 

[StG77_Kondor]

I think the back part of the side armor right over engine (not the front boxy party that sticks out) is not as thickly armored. At any rate the one we have in the game can be penned by the .50 M2, it is ridiculous that I would make that up, and this was just a week or 2 ago so not faulty memory

 

I wasn't implying that anyone was making anything up. I was referring more to the realistic ability of .50 cal AP ammo to penetrate even a light tank like this. The simplified way in which tank damage is modeled in the game wouldn't surprise me if "attacks from the side" from 6 wing mounted .50's (convergence being the key here). I was just able to do it myself, with relative ease in quick mission. Took several tries to get the 38(t) to spawn . I was just hitting the general side hull/turret area and still reliably blowing them up, without aiming for specific weak points. 

[56RAF_Roblex]

Just out of interest,  I found this diagram of a PzIII (sorry should say 'PzIV' as written on the diagram) saying the side armour at the rear was about 18mm 

 

 

I also found an article that claimed the PzIII armour was brittle and prone to cracking when hit by t guns or DK bullets   http://tankarchives.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/pziii-armour.html     I assume the 'DK bullets' means the DshK 12.7mm heavy machine guns mounted on some Russian tanks.

Edited January 16, 2018 by 56RAF_Roblex

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

That image is a Panzer IV, you can tell first because of the long 75mm cannon, turret shape and 8 roadwheels.

 

The Panzers III and IV that we have in the Moscow, Stalingrad timeline would have 30mm of side and rear armor, I think the Panzer III L even 50mm of rear armor?

 

The Panzer IV had its rear armor decreased to 20mm in the later H and J variants iirc*, with the implementation of the side skirts against the Soviet 14.5mm AT rifle, which would also protect it against the VYa-23 since both weapons have similar AT capabilities.

 

*maybe happened earlier with the G when the frontal armor was increased to 80mm

Edited January 16, 2018 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[Babayega]

Looking forward to flying the new campaign!!! 

[=gRiJ=ToReRo]

that it starts soon please that my pilots are getting desperate they need competition thanks LG for keeping alive the spirit of competition for squads  

Edited January 16, 2018 by =gRij=ToReRo