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What about limited modification with limited ranks?

Otherwise the rank system seems useless to us.

High ranks can unlock all modification of the aircraft, and low ranks only have limited choice. 

 

What do you think about this idea?  :P

Edited by III./JG5_xshinel

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No please. Enough with the unlocks, we have enough limitation as it is  

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What about limited modification with limited ranks?

Otherwise the rank system seems useless to us.

High ranks can unlock all modification of the aircraft, and low ranks only have limited choice. 

 

What do you think about this idea?  :P

 

I don't like it. It only serves to increase an advantage in favor of the more skillful pilot

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So after about 10 hours on TAW I finally got my first true A2A kill. So much adrenalin pumping, it seems silly getting that feeling from a game, but the TAW server just makes it all so immersive!

 

I have to praise the TAW admins and players ofr a great server and an awesome flight-sim experiance. Flying up in groups of bombers and fighters working together trying to fight a good fight is some seriously awesome fun I never thought I could get with BoS.

 

Despite it taking 10 hours I've had so much fun learning the game and tactics, there something still quite satisfying climbing to about 6k and just patrolling about, even if nothing happens as long as you make a successful landing its still been a good time.

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To be clear. Chute shooting is allowed. See rules and manual.

 

Why ppl shooting chutes ?

Cuz they can. 

If You remove the posibility of that kinfd of behaviour - noone will do it again.

15 second.

For one who hanging on chute or lying in broken plane - i's quite long time ...

For one who trying to shoot down chute on elanded plane - it's quite short time to turn back and aim ...

But I really do not understand that 15 sec rule ... or maybe I do not know some things. In WOL or other online servers when You press "end flight" You are immediatelly going back to af map screen. And quess what - noone shooting chutes on that servers and kills are counted right. 

 

It's only depends of admins decision. 

Admins like it  - so we have to live with that.

Simple. 

 

Ramm.

 

ps. in past shooting chutes were allowed too. But in almost all servers were penalty for that. You lost points or get negative experience which gives You less points.

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In real life people only have one life as you already know. Imagine killing a pilot who has received invaluable mentorship over countless sorties to develop a formidable skillset, a skillset that has probably already cost the lives of countless of your fellow countrymen. This has a potentially greater benefit, maybe not to the outcome of a battle but for saving the future lives of your fellow countrymen.... and yet many pilots had the restraint to avoid it. Actually training pilots is costly and time consuming, so even indiscriminately killing all pilots would have significant outcomes; this is "total war". It bothers me when people compare war to a video game, human beings lose their humanity, and many deeply regret it decades later; reminds me of that recently posted interview with the Japanese ace who shot down an amateur F6F, his words were that he "didn't have the courage" not to press the trigger. So maybe if we are strictly talking benefits, real life pilot killing benefits should outweigh that of TAW pilot killing....but it was still avoided.  

 

In my opinion the fight is over, the guy is done and you're just shitting on him; doesn't look good on your character. This game makes me salty sometimes, it makes me bitter like grapefruit, but somehow that never translates into the desire to shoot at the guys' parachute. I personally think people don't shoot at chutes for the benefits, they do it out of salt, because it happens on WoL and on TAW. 

 

Please explain to me then - are we playing a game, or are we roleplaying? Is TAW a roleplaying server or a purely competitive server? Because you compare killing a virtual pilot to killing a real person - which may have had a significant impact on his mental health. That's two completely different things, unless you're roleplaying an actual pilot.

 

Certain rules, like limit of pilots and consequences of dying, were established for a reason - so you can use them to get an edge in the battle. Using all the rules available at your disposal to win the game is a sign of respect of its own as giving a slack for some reason is considered condescending. If TAW admins say chute shooting is allowed and establish rules that take into account pilot's death, I see no reason not to do this. It's part of the game now, not some mean, malicious attempt at frustrating opponent that has no benefit at all, which was the reason behind condemning it.

 

Saying that not using the rules regarding this particular feature to win the game is a sign of better character is simply elitism and a sign of intellectual inflexibility - inability to change your mindset based on different circumstances.

 

re parachute shooting - you can think of it two ways:

 

1. its a game, plain and simple. Most of us aren't trained pilots and very few (if any) of us have actually flown the BOS a/c we currently fly, but IRL. So, its a game where you have to win and if killing the pilot helps you win...then go for it. Same as sneaking up on a person in BF4 or ARMA or PUBG and popping them in the head; OR

2. you can show some semblance of honor and your own personal feeling, knowing that you're really just trying to shoot down the vpilots plane...not necessarily to kill the vpilot. If sparing the pilot saves your feelings of honor but doesn't help your side...so be it. Refer to #1 above. 

 

At the end of the day, its up to you. Not killing one pilot in his chute isn't going to win the war or lose the war. It shouldn't. If this were 1939 and it was Hitler hanging in that chute...by all means. Otherwise, just do what you want. (hopefully i'm getting my point across)

 

How is deliberately restraining from helping your team honourable? Because the rules of TAW clearly make it so killing the vpilot is one of the ways to help your team. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of effeciency and result - unlike other servers, where it's only a way to grief your opponent or show him respect by restraning from shooting him.

 

Again, saying that this particular game action with a particular influence on the result is somehow dishonourable is a display of elitism and mindset inflexibility. And I see you're trying to somehow go around the topic by referring to "personal feeling of honor" instead of honour itself, but that wouldn't be an issue if there wasn't a whole group of people trying to enforce their sense of honour on others and talking them down like they're inferior human beings, just because they're playing the game the way it was designed and intended to be played.

 

Chute shooting on TAW and chute shooting on WOL or any other "traditional" server are two different actions. The former is justified by the ruleset and serves a purpose, the latter is nothing but being a douchebag. I don't condone being a douchebag, but I completely condone actions that utilize the rules to win the game.

 

I've noticed there is a huge difference in culture in flight sims now versus before. It used to be vulching was heavily frowned upon, and chute shooting would not only instantly make everyone hate you, but it would also get you banned from many servers. Before it seemed the idea was more to allow everyone to have fun playing a game. Yes, we are simulating brutal air combat, but in the end, it's a game! What fun is it to be strafed landing/taking off or having a pk from a chute being shot up? How is that sportsmanship or testing your skills against another? It's like a boxer sucker punching or hitting his opponent before they tap gloves. In the many combat flight sims I played in the past, it was usually just given that you'd follow the "golden rule" and respect that others were playing for fun, same as you would be. Now everything seems to be driven by stats, no matter the cost to other's, or even your own, good time. Sad, but I guess things change. I just question if it's for the better.

 

Yes, it's a game. A game with a set of rules that both teams play around to achieve the victory. And those rules - contrary to whatever you played before - include pilot kills as their part. If it's not fun for the victim - being simply shot down is not fun as well, losing is generally not fun. It's a competitive environment and everything that serves winning the game and is within the rules is a fair game. If you're aiming to test your skills in an honourable duel, it's not a perfect server for this. If you're aiming at roleplaying a favourite war ace, it's not a perfect server for that either. It has a larger picture in mind than a skill test between two players or somebody's desire to roleplay WW2 pilot and pilots' lives are part of that picture. That's the difference - chute shooting wasn't part of stats back then so there was no reason for doing it. Now there is one, by design.

 

The culture is not set in stone. It grows and evolves. TAW is a step in a new direction, whether you like it or not. It's like a handshake - it used to be a custom that only an older of two men was allowed to offer a handshake and if a younger one offered, he was considered rude and out of the line and the older man was well within the right to refuse the handshake. Now? If you refuse a handshake in any circumstances, save for some extreme cases, you're the one considered rude.

 

So you can refuse that handshake from a younger dude and call it an unproper behaviour - but it won't show him in bad light anymore, but the other way around. You can still restrain from offering that handshake to olders yourself though with no negative outcome in general. So if you want to remain in the old mindset, feel free to, but don't disregard others for adapting to new circumstances. It's elitist, condescending and disrespectful.

Edited by Stelcio

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Ein Fliegerkumpel hier wurde von den eigenen Leuten vom Falschirm geschossen da jemand scheinbar nicht mehr wusste welcher nun der Feind ist!

Wollt Ihr das alle so haben?

Für solch eine Vorgehensweise kann ich nur meinen Ekel aussprechen.

Und jeder der ein Funken Anstand hat sollte auch so denken.

English please :-)

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Please explain to me then - are we playing a game, or are we roleplaying? Is TAW a roleplaying server or a purely competitive server? Because you compare killing a virtual pilot to killing a real person - which may have had a significant impact on his mental health. That's two completely different things, unless you're roleplaying an actual pilot.

 

Certain rules, like limit of pilots and consequences of dying, were established for a reason - so you can use them to get an edge in the battle. Using all the rules available at your disposal to win the game is a sign of respect of its own as giving a slack for some reason is considered condescending. If TAW admins say chute shooting is allowed and establish rules that take into account pilot's death, I see no reason not to do this. It's part of the game now, not some mean, malicious attempt at frustrating opponent that has no benefit at all, which was the reason behind condemning it.

 

Saying that not using the rules regarding this particular feature to win the game is a sign of better character is simply elitism and a sign of intellectual inflexibility - inability to change your mindset based on different circumstances.

 

 

How is deliberately restraining from helping your team honourable? Because the rules of TAW clearly make it so killing the vpilot is one of the ways to help your team. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of effeciency and result - unlike other servers, where it's only a way to grief your opponent or show him respect by restraning from shooting him.

 

Again, saying that this particular game action with a particular influence on the result is somehow dishonourable is a display of elitism and mindset inflexibility. And I see you're trying to somehow go around the topic by referring to "personal feeling of honor" instead of honour itself, but that wouldn't be an issue if there wasn't a whole group of people trying to enforce their sense of honour on others and talking them down like they're inferior human beings, just because they're playing the game the way it was designed and intended to be played.

 

Chute shooting on TAW and chute shooting on WOL or any other "traditional" server are two different actions. The former is justified by the ruleset and serves a purpose, the latter is nothing but being a douchebag. I don't condone being a douchebag, but I completely condone actions that utilize the rules to win the game.

 

 

Yes, it's a game. A game with a set of rules that both teams play around to achieve the victory. And those rules - contrary to whatever you played before - include pilot kills as their part. If it's not fun for the victim - being simply shot down is not fun as well, losing is generally not fun. It's a competitive environment and everything that serves winning the game and is within the rules is a fair game. If you're aiming to test your skills in an honourable duel, it's not a perfect server for this. If you're aiming at roleplaying a favourite war ace, it's not a perfect server for that either. It has a larger picture in mind than a skill test between two players or somebody's desire to roleplay WW2 pilot and pilots' lives are part of that picture. That's the difference - chute shooting wasn't part of stats back then so there was no reason for doing it. Now there is one, by design.

 

The culture is not set in stone. It grows and evolves. TAW is a step in a new direction, whether you like it or not. It's like a handshake - it used to be a custom that only an older of two men was allowed to offer a handshake and if a younger one offered, he was considered rude and out of the line and the older man was well within the right to refuse the handshake. Now? If you refuse a handshake in any circumstances, save for some extreme cases, you're the one considered rude.

 

So you can refuse that handshake from a younger dude and call it an unproper behaviour - but it won't show him in bad light anymore, but the other way around. You can still restrain from offering that handshake to olders yourself though with no negative outcome in general. So if you want to remain in the old mindset, feel free to, but don't disregard others for adapting to new circumstances. It's elitist, condescending and disrespectful.

 

I'm not going to get sucked into a big debate, I feel I've already pretty much made my points and I clearly see the culture has changed. I have quickly adapted accordingly.  The only reason I'm saying more on the matter at all is because I don't think some people, especially those new to the genre, are getting as much fun out of Il2/TAW as they really should. Sure, winning a game is great and it's the point of playing. But in all games/sports there is some sort of etiquette. Certain tackles, blocks, etc are legal is sports, but could injure another player. Would it help the opposing team if this person was knocked out? Usually, yes, but that stuff isn't done for all the reasons that have pretty much already been said. Hovering just out of AA range by a base and then diving in as someone has their gear down to takeoff or land might help you win, but are you or your opponent really even playing anything?  Same could be said about taking a pilot's life in a chute. There's nothing "elitist, condescending. or disrespectful" with what I'm meaning to say, it's just a different point of view and a different way I have always played video games or sports. Vulching/chute shooting has always happened, the only thing that has really changed it seems, is that people like yourself not only accept it, but encourage it. 

 

On a side note, I have spent years of my life in war (although on the ground), and winning did truly matter during that time for me. My life and those by my side depended on it and we'd do (and did) anything to achieve it. However, it was anything but a game. Anyone crazy enough to ever want to experience what combat is really like will not be able to even come close to it by "role-playing" in a video game. Games are meant to be for entertainment and I'll continue to play them as such, but by all means, continue to pursue "winning" at other's expense. 

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Nice to hear you Rammjager.

 

At the end is a decision of player, in this case have rear, support of rules. If admins decide forbide this action, problem solved.

 

I asking me about benefits of kill chutes on terms of gameplay community... like said here before.... chute kills dont generate nothing positive i think.

 

On personal terms.... i dont remember last time i kill a chute.... is posible when i was young on ADW i press the trigger ....but i think no... i think my feelings about the game was allways the same.

 

Is a game about planes, bombs and dogfights. We are a competitive community. I enjoy if have a good opponent and win combat, i enjoy if other player have better performance than me and defeat me... i no have problem to recognice if the oponent player wins me becouse is better than me.  Kill the other player when work is done , is insane for game community , for me this is something like boxing or sport fighting.  When you opponent is KO , combat is end, not need more injury. Most of combats , when are finish u can see respectfull betwin fighters.

 

See you all on skyes, and please, dont kill chutes, make love.  :)

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This :)

You completely forget why dedicated Sim Pilots are here. They don't want to be taken by the hand like in all those other Call of Battlefield games where they give you stuff which works for every idiot.

 

Trust me, the fun comes with the navigation. Yes that's harder if you start off. but with time you enjoy it. 

If you don't want that and you want to be taken by the hand and guided through the "ordeal" of navigation there are a few other servers for you. Or other games which are easier.

 

You can't burst into a community which enjoys the abstinence of such features and demand that from noew on its done like in the games you came from.

or in other words, there are two type of players. The ones who try to adapt to the system and the guys who want to adapt the system to them. Guess who learns faster?

 

So, the right answer for you is "how to navigate as a bomberpilot?". There is the path you have to go.

 

Cheers.

Edited by DerSheriff
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Since you raise up numerous topics in your post, I will divide it into parts and respond to each of them separately.

 

The only reason I'm saying more on the matter at all is because I don't think some people, especially those new to the genre, are getting as much fun out of Il2/TAW as they really should.

 

That's an ungrounded opinion.

 

 

Sure, winning a game is great and it's the point of playing. But in all games/sports there is some sort of etiquette. Certain tackles, blocks, etc are legal is sports, but could injure another player. Would it help the opposing team if this person was knocked out? Usually, yes, but that stuff isn't done for all the reasons that have pretty much already been said.

 

I don't recall a sport where a tackle aimed only at injuring other player is anyhow legal. As far as tackles with tactical gain go, they're sorted as legal or illegal based on risk of injury they bear. Risky tackles are illegal in general, less risky are allowed for the purpose of the game. Now if we look at chute shooting as such in-game tackle, it doesn't even qualify as a tactical gain tackle on traditional servers. It's simply an action aimed to furtherly humiliate the enemy.

 

On Tactical Air War server it does come with a certain tactical gain and this gain itself nullifies the harm. The motivation behind the action is no longer petty, it's game-oriented. If somebody feels disrespected by the act of chute shooting, it's only because he's stuck in former mindset, not because the action itself is foul. The action is - as far as we can assume - motivated by the rules.

 

A disclaimer saying that on TAW server chute shooting is not a malicious action, but an allowed and valid tactic within attrition warfare mechanics, may be in order to ensure everybody understands it - but that's it. If somebody feels offended after such disclaimer, it's theirs and only theirs issue.

 

 

Hovering just out of AA range by a base and then diving in as someone has their gear down to takeoff or land might help you win, but are you or your opponent really even playing anything?  Same could be said about taking a pilot's life in a chute. There's nothing "elitist, condescending. or disrespectful" with what I'm meaning to say, it's just a different point of view and a different way I have always played video games or sports. Vulching/chute shooting has always happened, the only thing that has really changed it seems, is that people like yourself not only accept it, but encourage it. 

 

Answering your first question - it seems I'm playing the game in play and you're playing the game you've made up in your head. It's not me accepting or encouraging "it", it's the rules that accept it and encourage such action by a thought out set of mechanics and me merely respecting the rules and players who play within them, without my personal tastes interfering. If you're asking if I'm even playing anything when I'm strafing those who barely took off or chute shooting, you're implying that I play it wrong and you're playing it right. You may have your different point of view, but questioning actions that are set within the rules of the game and implying your way of playing is better is what's elitist, condescending and disrespectful.

 

 

On a side note, I have spent years of my life in war (although on the ground), and winning did truly matter during that time for me. My life and those by my side depended on it and we'd do (and did) anything to achieve it. However, it was anything but a game. Anyone crazy enough to ever want to experience what combat is really like will not be able to even come close to it by "role-playing" in a video game. Games are meant to be for entertainment and I'll continue to play them as such, but by all means, continue to pursue "winning" at other's expense. 

 

Games and war are different, I agree, but one thing common is that a goal is to win and it's always at other's expense. You cannot expect an opponent in a game to restrain from acting in a way that's effectively closing him and his team to a victory. You can only expect him to follow the rules and the rules are clear on TAW server. Blaming somebody for playing within the rules is ridiculous. Claiming moral high ground for restraining yourself from doing so is, as mentioned, elitist, condescending and disrespectful for those who just want to play the game as it is.

Edited by Stelcio

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In my honest opinion there is more fuss in this thread about chutekilling than actualy chutekilling going on.

All that effort that is being made back and forth for and against it. If the Luftwaffles would spend half of it into actually being efficent with what they're doing, the VVS could bend over and pray. Honestly this is getting annoying.  :rolleyes:

Oddly enough I know feel the urge of shooting chutes...(no I wont actually do it)

 

Regarding GPS: Hell no! I don't like navigating much and like to rely on my wingleader but saying that the ingame "GPS" would be like a navigator/bombardier IRL is just an excuse. Its just pressing some buttons and knobs while cruising on autopilot and the good all Mk. 1 eyeball (and maybe even with some modifications lenses).

 

Geez guys, get back and actually fly.

 

 

 

@Admins, have I ever thanked you? Best campaign so far! Keep it up!

Edited by Der_Kurfuerst
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Since you raise up numerous topics in your post, I will divide it into parts and respond to each of them separately.

 

 

That's an ungrounded opinion.

 

 

 

I don't recall a sport where a tackle aimed only at injuring other player is anyhow legal. As far as tackles with tactical gain go, they're sorted as legal or illegal based on risk of injury they bear. Risky tackles are illegal in general, less risky are allowed for the purpose of the game. Now if we look at chute shooting as such in-game tackle, it doesn't even qualify as a tactical gain tackle on traditional servers. It's simply an action aimed to furtherly humiliate the enemy.

 

On Tactical Air War server it does come with a certain tactical gain and this gain itself nullifies the harm. The motivation behind the action is no longer petty, it's game-oriented. If somebody feels disrespected by the act of chute shooting, it's only because he's stuck in former mindset, not because the action itself is foul. The action is - as far as we can assume - motivated by the rules.

 

A disclaimer saying that on TAW server chute shooting is not a malicious action, but an allowed and valid tactic within attrition warfare mechanics, may be in order to ensure everybody understands it - but that's it. If somebody feels offended after such disclaimer, it's theirs and only theirs issue.

 

 

 

Answering your first question - it seems I'm playing the game in play and you're playing the game you've made up in your head. It's not me accepting or encouraging "it", it's the rules that accept it and encourage such action by a thought out set of mechanics and me merely respecting the rules and players who play within them, without my personal tastes interfering. If you're asking if I'm even playing anything when I'm strafing those who barely took off or chute shooting, you're implying that I play it wrong and you're playing it right. You may have your different point of view, but questioning actions that are set within the rules of the game and implying your way of playing is better is what's elitist, condescending and disrespectful.

 

 

 

Games and war are different, I agree, but one thing common is that a goal is to win and it's always at other's expense. You cannot expect an opponent in a game to restrain from acting in a way that's effectively closing him and his team to a victory. You can only expect him to follow the rules and the rules are clear on TAW server. Blaming somebody for playing within the rules is ridiculous. Claiming moral high ground for restraining yourself from doing so is, as mentioned, elitist, condescending and disrespectful for those who just want to play the game as it is.

Its a sim right? People are simulating being a pilot, many adopt the mindset that those same real life hero's did and refrain from it. Combat aviation has NEVER been black and white like the trenches below. Pilots were just different from theyre land ladden comrades. I think that difference has set foot here. By all means you are within your lane to chute kill, but you will find many great veteran pilots refraining from it. If elitist means being a human, fine Im an elitist. It just shows your true colors.

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If elitist means being a human, fine Im an elitist.

 

How is chute shooting less humane than for example ganking up on a single enemy or shooting down a plane that's already smoking and trying to RTB? You're basically saying that I'm inhumane because I play the game by the rules that you don't like. That's it. A very serious accusation based on a entirely fair video game behaviour, but that's just another example of elitism and disregard. Too bad you don't realize that your problem is with the server that not only allows it, but also rewards it. Maybe play another server and stay off TAW for as long as this action you consider so inhumane is not only condoned, but also encouraged here by a complex set of rules and is by all means part of the game? By playing TAW you're basically supporting this "inhumane" playstyle. Kinda hypocrisy. Just saying.

 

 

 

Look, you can do whatever you want. It sounds like when all is done on TAW and you see your team win it must be very meaningful to you? Fair enough, in that case, pilots who bail should despawn quickly. Perhaps one day this rule gets you shot up by your own team, so be it then am i right?

Yeah, sure, I play games to win. If you don't, I sympathize with your teammates. I don't see why I should abide to some arbitrary code of morality at expense of my team when the rules are precisely stating contrary in this regard. As far as other servers go, it's a foul play, but on TAW it's a fair game entirely.

 

As far as being shot by teammates goes - well, it's not like it doesn't happen even without chute shooting.

 

 

Maybe yeah you can call me mentally inflexible because i feel weird lining up on a defenseless chute but i suppose the rules are the rules!

But you don't feel weird bombing a supply depot with all the defensless virtual workers there? It's as inconsequential in real life as killing a vpilot on a parachute, and as justified by the ruleset. Yes, it's an action against a player-controlled character in latter case, but so is every hostile action in multiplayer games. Should a pack of fighters restrain from attacking a bomber, because its pilot on the other side of the wire may feel offended by having no chance of fighting back? One bomber is more or less defenseless against a group of fighters, but I don't see anybody advocating disallowing and condemning attacking bombers in groups. They don't do it out of spite, they do it because it's a way to help your team winning a game. Fair game.

 

 

There are people who literally don't care about the competetive winning aspect, 0 ambition, but use this rule as a perfectly reasonable rationalization. In reality they just feel like getting back at their opponent. I'd like everyone to think like you and see how you enjoy your time because believe me most pilots arent thinking like you. You really would be getting pilot killed at a high rate per bail, better remember the only reason you don't. If you think that's just dumb and not "adapting" to get the competetive edge... so be it. I bet those indiscriminate pilot killers who go after every chute do more harm to their team by getting distracted and shot down themselves... I bet they'd sacrifice altitude for it. You would probably argue this just adds another layer of decision making which it does, but I would argue most pilots going for it are making mistakes.

Those are simply bad players. Bad players will always make bad decisions and do bad things, no matter the rules. You cannot assume though that every chute shooter is a spiteful, angry player trying to humiliate their opponent if the rules are so that there is some tactical benefit from chute shooting. And that's what chute shooting critics assume, unrightfully. And even if chute shooter's motivation is questionable - it's still irrelevant. On TAW chutes are a fair game and by playing this server you should be ok with people doing so, just like you're ok with willingly participating in virtual warfare and all actions that come with it in general. Looking down upon those who don't restrain from chute shooting on TAW in general is simply disrespectful and many display such stance, even if you don't.

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I play to win, but never once have I flown on TAW so I have no business talking to you or being here. You can put words in my mouth and compare apples to oranges all day long here and pretend you are making a point, I don't have the time for this. 

 

If that's so, then you're the one comparing oranges to apples. Why are you even here, in a dedicated TAW thread, talking about morals and situations that simply don't apply to this server?

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@Stelcio - I could go into just about all of your points and tell you why they continue to boggle my mind, especially when in reference to a game, but I think enough things have been said on the matter. You, and those with similar views, will never see eye-to-eye with me on this regardless of any argument that is made. One thing we likely agree on, though, is that I don't think there should be an actual rule against this sort of stuff. Too many rules/bans/accusations can kill a small community and server from my experience. Really, it's each person's choice and it would best be left to the community as a whole to manage sportsmanship.

 

Thanks admins for a great campaign!

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You, and those with similar views, will never see eye-to-eye with me on this regardless of any argument that is made.

If you refuse to question your beliefs, you're no partner for a discussion anyway. I can't imagine myself making such an absolute statement, especially when it comes to video games, certainly not the most serious topic in the world.

 

 

 

Really, it's each person's choice and it would best be left to the community as a whole to manage sportsmanship.
 

Isn't that what we're doing right now? How else do you imagine that to proceed if you refuse to discuss? By simply ostracizing everybody you disagree with?

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I'm not going to shoot chutes. If people choose to do so well, it's your reputation on the line and this community is smaller than some might think. In the end chute shooters will never have my respect. What a waste of ammo with absolutely no challenges involved.

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Just because its legal in the rules doesnt mean I need to respect yoi.

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Hope there will be more groundtarget options available in addition to the planeset overhaul, decided to play a bit of LW intercepting comrades enroute

 

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If I may intervene in the chooting chutes debate, from a purely gameplay perspective, I don't see anything positive coming out of it. It's a zero risk, all benefit action, in the eyes of people PTFO, you're just encouraging the behavior without balancing it with a corresponding risk, creating a chasm in server community for zero valuable reason. That's useless gameplay-wise.

Simply remove the reward going along with chute shooting, problem solved.

If you really want to have kills count, make that rule automatic, no need to enforce chute shooting for that.

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You completely forget why dedicated Sim Pilots are here. They don't want to be taken by the hand like in all those other Call of Battlefield games where they give you stuff which works for every idiot.

 

Trust me, the fun comes with the navigation. Yes that's harder if you start off. but with time you enjoy it. 

If you don't want that and you want to be taken by the hand and guided through the "ordeal" of navigation there are a few other servers for you. Or other games which are easier.

 

You can't burst into a community which enjoys the abstinence of such features and demand that from noew on its done like in the games you came from.

or in other words, there are two type of players. The ones who try to adapt to the system and the guys who want to adapt the system to them. Guess who learns faster?

 

So, the right answer for you is "how to navigate as a bomberpilot?". There is the path you have to go.

 

Cheers.

 

I play BOS because I like the sim-like aspect of it. Otherwise i'd be playing warthunder. I also play DCS to give you some idea of my interests, and I'm not about making it easy for easy sake. I like having stuff as close to realism as possible - we all do, don't we? So having to manage flying an a/c as well as monitoring its engines (radiators, RPM, mixture, etc) is all part of it because thats what RL pilots did and thats why I'm here and everyone's in agreement I assume that we want it to be as real as it gets. However....RL bombers had navigators and bombardiers. Why? because of the workload on the pilot. Fighter pilots navigated and bombed by themselves....they had to, they were in single seat fighters. Bombers didn't. They had navs and bomb aimers. I understand the limitations of the game (and I fly/use it just like everyone else)....however, just for arguments sake we're saying 'oh yeah, we want as real as it gets.....ummm...except for bombers...we'll make the pilot do everything even though IRL they didn't'. See what I'm saying? I play this game because its difficult and its a challenge...but there's nothing worse than putting in difficulty for difficultys sake. Thats the point I'm trying to make. Its the same thing as the old vulching argument from IL2 days....imho there is no such thing as vulching. If you have an advanced fighter/bomber base, you SHOULD have CAP up and protecting it. Its open war and you're not safe anywhere. 

 

My point above re quoting 'its just a game' is in reference to the chute shooting discussion, so using that is out of context in reference to my point on navs. 

 

All I'm saying is, in lieu of navs shouldn't bomber pilots (Only) have some sort of nav assistance be it the GPS or something else. Navigating long distance in winter with very few landmarks is difficult as it is. 

Edited by The_Pharoah

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I know this isn't exactly a fix for the problem but you could use this: http://il2missionplanner.com/ It has a Moscow map too. You can plot your course to target, complete with speed and altitude and all that and this tool will tell you which direction to fly and for how long. It gives you back azimuths too, if you don't want to plot a return rout as well. This would allow you, the pilot, to fly just like long range bomber pilots would, with time and bearings. Granted, you are still having to do the plotting, the navigator would typically do all that, but it is better than a stick in the eye. Once you get used to how the tools work you can set up a flight plan in the amount of time it takes to get the engines on a bomber running.

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Yeah I've used that - I don't know if it caters for windage, etc but its still better than trying to do it by guesswork. 

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I would like to see a virtual protractor and ruler with a marking pen that you can move around the ingame map and plot your course on the map plus you could also put notes on the map. This would be very close to what navigators did irl. And if its too hard to implement then maybe do it as an addon pack we can purchase like with addon aircraft, I would pay for it if the devs made it available.

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Good idea...probably a good compromise ie. providing bomber pilots with a bit more navigation assistance (rather than the old GPS which is a bit too easy...even navigators got lost sometimes! lol). Whether you can implement or not is another question, and thats really what I"m trying to get at if that makes sense. 

Edited by The_Pharoah

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I'm not going to shoot chutes. If people choose to do so well, it's your reputation on the line and this community is smaller than some might think. In the end chute shooters will never have my respect. What a waste of ammo with absolutely no challenges involved.

 

Just because its legal in the rules doesnt mean I need to respect yoi.

 

Such a friendly and open-minded community. Keeping it as small as it is one day at a time.  :salute:

 

 

 

I don't see anything positive coming out of it. It's a zero risk, all benefit action, in the eyes of people PTFO, you're just encouraging the behavior without balancing it with a corresponding risk, creating a chasm in server community for zero valuable reason. That's useless gameplay-wise.

 

 

 

I bet those indiscriminate pilot killers who go after every chute do more harm to their team by getting distracted and shot down themselves... I bet they'd sacrifice altitude for it. You would probably argue this just adds another layer of decision making which it does.
 

 

There's a disagreement on this even on your side of the barricade. Also, considering this discussion, being ostracized by part of the community seems to be a very real risk here, so it's very well balanced.  :lol:

 

All that said I find it ridiculous that such a minor and largely inconsequential part of gameplay can create such a chasm, as you called it. The fact that some people make a big deal about it and openly display their disrespect to those they disagree with is the real problem here. That's just harmful for the community overall.

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Hey guys, how do I reset the password on your server? I follow the forgotten mail link, am given a new password but when I try to use it it doesn't work.

 

Ta

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Anyone had issues with ground kills not making it to taw website lately?

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Such a friendly and open-minded community. Keeping it as small as it is one day at a time.  :salute:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's a disagreement on this even on your side of the barricade. Also, considering this discussion, being ostracized by part of the community seems to be a very real risk here, so it's very well balanced.  :lol:

 

All that said I find it ridiculous that such a minor and largely inconsequential part of gameplay can create such a chasm, as you called it. The fact that some people make a big deal about it and openly display their disrespect to those they disagree with is the real problem here. That's just harmful for the community overall.

I find the disrespect is to shoot at a parachute jumper.

The enemy hunter is beaten. That should be enough fun. In then if possible to put an end to his virtual life is simply to step. A kind of revenge. This is for me not understandable which matches fun. Except childish aggression. I am unfortunately already a bit older and fly online far over 10 - 12 years. I must fight over the general ruling. I can not help it. ;)

The mutual respect is the key of the world!

What you do not want you to do. That would not add to anyone else.

I was fortunate to meet a handful of former huntspilot openers. At least from one I know, he helped with campaign production. I could imagine that for this game the parachutist had gotten contempt. Clear is a game. But a simulation!?!

I appeal to the mutual respect. I can not say more. Apologizes my google translation.

I am old and can not do more than that

:salute:

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Such a friendly and open-minded community. Keeping it as small as it is one day at a time. :salute:

 

 

 

There's a disagreement on this even on your side of the barricade. Also, considering this discussion, being ostracized by part of the community seems to be a very real risk here, so it's very well balanced. :lol:

 

All that said I find it ridiculous that such a minor and largely inconsequential part of gameplay can create such a chasm, as you called it. The fact that some people make a big deal about it and openly display their disrespect to those they disagree with is the real problem here. That's just harmful for the community overall.

The community is small, true statement.Open minded, very much a subjective question. You find it ridiculous that a playerbase of generally older and more mature players think virtually murdering your defensless opponent in a genre that embraces fellowship between players is abnormal?

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Hey, LG pilots! Stop killing everything that can fly! I thought we would take at least one diploma. But it is impossible when all targets are down...

 

p.s. Padre, don't love Stalin too much. Love your red team mates as well ;)

Amen!

150041278201626847.png

Very good Major general Padre, very good!

Edited by Skv_Serafim
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The community is small, true statement.Open minded, very much a subjective question. You find it ridiculous that a playerbase of generally older and more mature players think virtually murdering your defensless opponent in a genre that embraces fellowship between players is abnormal?

 

 

You'd think these generally older, more mature men would understand something children don't usually struggle with, such as balancing teams for the sake of sportsmanship and challenge, even if that means you don't get to fly your own super special favorite plane.  You can't be a ~honourable~ noble knight hunting his enemies across the skies when you constantly outnumber them multiple times over.  Talk about virtually murdering defenseless opponents, no?  Would you play rugby with an extra 150% teammates and then look down your nose at the opposing side taking their frustrations out by dump-tackling you when they get a chance?

 

Reciprocity is all I want and all I take, one way or the other. 

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Unless its a server rule, you can't force people to do the right thing. If everyone did the right thing with online gaming, we wouldn't have the issue of cheaters. But no, cheaters are rampant in gaming, even in esports. 

 

Having said that, all you can do is change your own actions. I don't and wouldn't shoot a parachute. I don't see the need. If the game promoted it, maybe but its a grey area. Besides, I fly bombers most of the time so its me dangling there in the parachute. 

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You'd think these generally older, more mature men would understand something children don't usually struggle with, such as balancing teams for the sake of sportsmanship and challenge, even if that means you don't get to fly your own super special favorite plane. You can't be a ~honourable~ noble knight hunting his enemies across the skies when you constantly outnumber them multiple times over. Talk about virtually murdering defenseless opponents, no? Would you play rugby with an extra 150% teammates and then look down your nose at the opposing side taking their frustrations out by dump-tackling you when they get a chance?

 

Reciprocity is all I want and all I take, one way or the other.

I'd take historical accuracy anyday over balance. I wish I was on the outnumbered team,more targets to shoot. Edited by Banzaii

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