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Jason_Williams

PWCG for BOS Beta 3 Available for Testing

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- Hm, I still encounter hat odd circling and I think it has something to do with the AI priorities? In one mission we engaged some LaGG while in the climb phase. After that was done with, the wing leader began an endless circling, "forgetting" that he had to reach the next WP. I usually fly away and try to complete the mission, when I look at the map later, the old Waypoint is still active and no progress has happened.

 

- Escort missions usually never happen, because on the way to the bombers my wing leader always finds some IL2 down low on the frontline (quite realistic) and is sailing down to attack them. I don't know what I should think about it. On the one hand, it is A okay to attack enemy planes, but than...it is not the mission. Is it possible that the Generators designs its missions around the escort, so that the attacks happen during the escort to the final waypoint (after the rendezvous) or after the bomb drop? Will investigate fruther though.

 

Furthermore, I would be happy, if somebody could confirm this - was it usual that the escort only flew with the bombers till the frontline? I can't manipulate the rendezvous waypoint (which seems reasonable), but then I usually drag the Egress waypoint along the bomber route to make the escort "complete". This is my workaround in theory, because since we never get to the rendezvous...

I`ll try the escort mission. I think escort mission should last to the home base historically.

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I tried it and it happens that bombers won`t follow me. They are just circling when we fly to the waypoints. 

 

Mission file attachedMissions.zip.

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I have a few questions.

1. Is there a promotions in PWCG? I have flown 8 missions, made 7 victories but still a serzhant.

2. In scramble missions, enemy flight start too close to player. When mission starts, they appear in 5-6 km and when we take off, we already under attack.

3. In 8 missions, weather conditions was clear in nearly half of it and other half was overcast. In the briefing was light and moderate clouds. Is this normal? I lowered odds of overcast clouds to 2 and raised odds of moderate clouds to 43, with no effect.

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I tried it and it happens that bombers won`t follow me. They are just circling when we fly to the waypoints. 

 

Mission file attachedattachicon.gifMissions.zip.

Not only bombers circling WP, i encounter this bug two times in my fighter campaign. Last time when it was happen, i fly to the target area, destroyed one ground target and then wp was changed to next.

Edited by Rasim

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I'll check escort missions to make sure that I do not have a bug, but once you get close enough you should switch from flying WPs to cover.Cover stays active until the mission is complete and you have crossed back into friendly territory.  At that point the bombers go to their base and you return to yours.

 

Escorts are medium priority.  WPs to rendezvous the with the bombers are lower priority.  Maybe I could use medium priority but you will be hampered if you are attacked.  I cannot use high priority WPs as that would make your flight helpless,

 

Rasim: When you are on an attack mission the attack MCU is enabled for a certain period of time.  Then it switches back to WPs to take the flight home.  The transition is purely time based and not based on any action that you take.

 

There are promotions in PWCG and they will come.  I know that in the German service promotions were not really easy to come by.  I looked at the code and you need at least 10 missions to be promoted from the lowest rank.  With 7 victories you easily exceed the victory requirement.

 

It certainly could be that the circling seems to have something to do with AI priorities.  Maybe I need to remove all of the self preservation logic and everybody fights to the death.  I really do not want to do that.  Even considering that, I cannot account for planes following other planes and not shooting, or planes making passes and not firing.  I can influence AI only so much.

Edited by PatrickAWlson

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I'll check escort missions to make sure that I do not have a bug, but once you get close enough you should switch from flying WPs to cover.Cover stays active until the mission is complete and you have crossed back into friendly territory.  At that point the bombers go to their base and you return to yours.

 

Escorts are medium priority.  WPs to rendezvous the with the bombers are lower priority.  Maybe I could use medium priority but you will be hampered if you are attacked.  I cannot use high priority WPs as that would make your flight helpless,

 

Rasim: When you are on an attack mission the attack MCU is enabled for a certain period of time.  Then it switches back to WPs to take the flight home.  The transition is purely time based and not based on any action that you take.

 

There are promotions in PWCG and they will come.  I know that in the German service promotions were not really easy to come by.  I looked at the code and you need at least 10 missions to be promoted from the lowest rank.  With 7 victories you easily exceed the victory requirement.

 

It certainly could be that the circling seems to have something to do with AI priorities.  Maybe I need to remove all of the self preservation logic and everybody fights to the death.  I really do not want to do that.  Even considering that, I cannot account for planes following other planes and not shooting, or planes making passes and not firing.  I can influence AI only so much.

 

Pat we should ask Viks about this kind of thing before we remove more stuff.

 

Jason

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This is probably asking too much, but I and every other mission builder would love a chart detailing high level AI decisions.  I know that the AI is driven by a pretty complex interaction of orders, priority and situation.  I'm not talking about trade secrets, just the basics of how the AI reacts when given orders through MCUs.

 

Example: Fighter, WP priority low/medium/high, enemy fighters near, decision?

Example: IL2, WP priority  low/medium/high, enemy fighters near, decision?

Damaged, RTB is enabled, decision?
 
You get the idea.  Probably several dozen basic combinations, but you get the idea.

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I don't like the way that last post came off so I deleted it.  Let's try again.

 

Internationalization of PWCG: Definitely possible but painstaking and a bit mind numbing.  Internationalizing code is fairly straight forward.  Take all of the strings, pull them into a file, reference from the file based on a configuration setting.  

 

Not in this release but we'll see what happens.  It is a good idea.

Thanks for reply. I highly recommend to read about GNU gettext library. The idea is very simple, but it's brilliant. You just mark your strings in your source code. For example:

 

string s1="Hello, World";

 

mark as:

 

string s1=_("Hello World");

 

Then you run simple bat file. It's parse your source code and make POT file for translate. Then you upload this file to https://translate.google.com/toolkit and give permission to translators by adding their gmails to translators list on the site.

 

After you make new version of program. You run bat file again. And then with app like Poedit you can merge old and new POT files. 

 

So. GNU Gettext is semi-automatic. This is how we translate IL2CG into english. We did it in a week or so, but without GNU Gettext it would take much more time.

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It certainly could be that the circling seems to have something to do with AI priorities.  Maybe I need to remove all of the self preservation logic and everybody fights to the death.  I really do not want to do that.  Even considering that, I cannot account for planes following other planes and not shooting, or planes making passes and not firing.  I can influence AI only so much.

I hope that anything so extreme is not necessary. As Jason said, maybe Viks can give you info about the AI. 

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Got my CTDs sorted.  Reinstall fixed it.  Anyway, now I just have to figure out how to survive in an Il-2!  Going against the "ground troops" target is like the Death Star Trench Run...AAA everywhere!

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I tried it and it happens that bombers won`t follow me. They are just circling when we fly to the waypoints. 

 

Mission file attachedattachicon.gifMissions.zip.

Tried this mission again and it looks like the bombers are circling at the wrong waypoint. They are already at the last waypoint.

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Tried this mission again and it looks like the bombers are circling at the wrong waypoint. They are already at the last waypoint.

 

I have the rendezvous (and separation since they are the same place) behind enemy lines.  I will move it behind friendly lines.  Edit - simple bug.  Fixed it.  

 

The rendezvous and separation point will now be a position fairly close to the lines but in friendly territory.  The escort will not be all the way back to the bomber's base.

Edited by PatrickAWlson

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I have the rendezvous (and separation since they are the same place) behind enemy lines.  I will move it behind friendly lines.  Edit - simple bug.  Fixed it.  

 

The rendezvous and separation point will now be a position fairly close to the lines but in friendly territory.  The escort will not be all the way back to the bomber's base.

Sounds good!

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Tried this mission again and it looks like the bombers are circling at the wrong waypoint. They are already at the last waypoint.

 

I played your mission on autopilot.  When I reached the WP there were PE2s and Yaks right next to the He111s that were supposed to be escorted.  A dogfight ensued.  IMHO at that point the escort mission is blown and all bets are off.

 

Per the previous post I did fix the error that caused the rendezvous to be behind enemy lines.  I also moved the rendezvous 15 km behind friendly lines instead of 5 km. Hopefully that helps.

 

Some other things - the bombers will circle until the rendezvous is made.  Escort missions are complex.  Your flight is flying its own WPs until you reach the rendezvous.  At that point a cover MCU is triggered.  The bombers will not have active WPs until you arrive.  The same trigger that activates the cover command your flight also activates the first WP for the bombers.  So when you arrive your WPs end and you go into cover mode and the bomber WPs begin.

 

If a dogfight breaks out right at the rendezvous point ... like I said, all bets are off at that point.

Edited by PatrickAWlson
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I played your mission on autopilot.  When I reached the WP there were PE2s and Yaks right next to the He111s that were supposed to be escorted.  A dogfight ensued.  IMHO at that point the escort mission is blown and all bets are off.

 

Per the previous post I did fix the error that caused the rendezvous to be behind enemy lines.  I also moved the rendezvous 15 km behind friendly lines instead of 5 km. Hopefully that helps.

 

Some other things - the bombers will circle until the rendezvous is made.  Escort missions are complex.  Your flight is flying its own WPs until you reach the rendezvous.  At that point a cover MCU is triggered.  The bombers will not have active WPs until you arrive.  The same trigger that activates the cover command your flight also activates the first WP for the bombers.  So when you arrive your WPs end and you go into cover mode and the bomber WPs begin.

 

If a dogfight breaks out right at the rendezvous point ... like I said, all bets are off at that point.

Moving rendezvous point will fix the problem IMO. If enemy fighters are encountered before or at the rendezvous point and they attack, it changes the situation and it is OK. That`s war, not every mission goes like planned.

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Moving rendezvous point will fix the problem IMO. If enemy fighters are encountered before or at the rendezvous point and they attack, it changes the situation and it is OK. That`s war, not every mission goes like planned.

 

As always, appreciate the feedback.  You have been one of the most valuable testers during this process.  

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As always, appreciate the feedback.  You have been one of the most valuable testers during this process.  

My pleasure! Thank you for making this for us, you are doing great job  :salute:

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As mentioned previously I think this mod is the best thing to come along to BoS ( aside from new maps planes etc. but anyway...) I have to smile when I see the mission routes sketched out on the map by the CG mission planner - they look like a spiderweb done by a spider on LSD.I can't imagine what a real pilot would have said if he had actually been handed one of these to fly in WW-2! I've spent some interesting time straightening out the routes in & out of enemy territory...or what i think is enemy territory... :huh:

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Couple of minor bugs from my recent Intercept mission. Word "near" is twice on mission briefing and Panshino is spelled wrong.

post-17513-0-60372500-1446918503_thumb.jpg

 

In the mission itself I noticed that airfield protection flight of 4 Messerschmitts are flying inside thick cloud cover and circling the base. There was also an Sturmovik flight doing the same. Here`s the mission file if you need to take a look. Otherwise it worked as intended and was fun until I got shot down for not checking my six.

Missions.zip

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RE: Escort Missions.

 

Great! Thank you very much, Patrick and Zami!

 

Moving rendezvous point will fix the problem IMO. If enemy fighters are encountered before or at the rendezvous point and they attack, it changes the situation and it is OK. That`s war, not every mission goes like planned.

 

Exactly my opinion. Elegant idea, moving the rendezvous behind the frontline!

 

@Blitzen

Hm. I think the mission routes are fairly simple. Don't mix up the climbing WPs with the mission route.

 

Do you have a screenshot?

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As mentioned previously I think this mod is the best thing to come along to BoS ( aside from new maps planes etc. but anyway...) I have to smile when I see the mission routes sketched out on the map by the CG mission planner - they look like a spiderweb done by a spider on LSD.I can't imagine what a real pilot would have said if he had actually been handed one of these to fly in WW-2! I've spent some interesting time straightening out the routes in & out of enemy territory...or what i think is enemy territory... :huh:

As 74_jim_nihilist mentioned above, there are purposely built climb WPs after the take off. Don`t confuse those with the actual mission waypoints. They were introduced in the last PWCG update to help getting enough altitude before heading on mission. IMO generally waypoints are fine as they are now  :)

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Another minor typo in mission briefing. No space between words battery and Rubeznyj. 

post-17513-0-92209400-1446971262_thumb.jpg

 

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Heinkels as far as the eye can see:

hes_zpsp5jgatow.jpg

 

Quite a line upthis after playing a bit with advanced settings & starting a Bomber career.The numbers of He-111's are impressive, but comes at a price:a much reduced runway length for the lead bomber (me!) :o:

(BTW- This change came with a still acceptable FPS.)

Edited by Blitzen

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Quite a line upthis after playing a bit with advanced settings & starting a Bomber career.The numbers of He-111's are impressive, but comes at a price:a much reduced runway length for the lead bomber (me!) (BTW- This change came with a still acceptable FPS.)

 

If you plan flying with that many planes often, I suggest you reducing the distance between each plane on the runaway, it may give the leading plane a bit more of runaway lenght  ;)

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Regardless my config, 90% of the LW fighter missions are patrols, and 90% of the time the sky is clear. 

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Regardless my config, 90% of the LW fighter missions are patrols, and 90% of the time the sky is clear. 

You know that the Percentages scale for 100 Missions?

 

Play some more.

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Reflected...not sure what the problem is with that....I do get patrol missions...but have yet to not encounter enemy aircraft.

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My Air-Start missions are starting right above my home field.  Is this right?  I seem to remember ROF starting closer to the front.

 

2015_11_8__20_1_22_zpsbukh5cph.jpg

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There are promotions in PWCG and they will come.  I know that in the German service promotions were not really easy to come by.  I looked at the code and you need at least 10 missions to be promoted from the lowest rank.  With 7 victories you easily exceed the victory requirement.
 

I have 11 missions, 12 victories, winter, but still serzhant. Probably Stalin just dont like me.))

P.S. Flying on Yak.

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Reflected...not sure what the problem is with that....I do get patrol missions...but have yet to not encounter enemy aircraft.

 

By clear skies I mean the lack of clouds :)

 

But no ground attacks. A few escorts and intercepts, but 90% patrols.

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Hi guys,

I was long working on a problem to get the game running with PWCG. When I accepted the missions, I allways had the same error warning as Hooves in post 18:

"Please see the error log file: PWCGErrorLog.txt And post error on the ROF forum.  ..\data\Multiplayer\Cooperative\Yogi 1942-08-01.mission (Das System kann den angegebenen Pfad nicht finden)"

It took me long time, inclusive newinstallation, until I found out, that I had to set "Use Coop" in User Preferences under Configuration to "0".

I had set it to "1" as I wanted to fly coopmissions.

Did I understand it in a wrong way or is there a mistake in the system?

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Heads up for people playing on "high" ground and air settings. Missions can take a very long time to load.

 

P.S. Pat, you should contact Warhamm if you haven't already. Some of the features in his utility are very cool and a collaboration between you both could produce some great results.

Edited by JimmyBlonde

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Just wondering, for intercept missions, would it be possible/realistic to be told in the briefing what sort of aircraft we're intercepting (such as bombers or fighters, not the exact type of the aircraft)? It would be nice to know if I should use gunpods or not.

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A few observations from me:

*After take off, no matter what plane (I've tried Yak, IL2, 109G2 and F4 and Stuka), the leader (I'm always lowest rank so no 4 or 5) makes a tight turn almost on the deck. Sometimes another flight member can't follow and crashes. Don't know why this is.

*In about 15-25% of the cases, the leader does not go to the next waypoint after take off, but instead flies indefinite circles around the field.

*In between climb waypoints, the leader sometimes comes to the required altitude before he reaches the next WP. He then throttles back significantly.

*Especially in the Russian campaigns I have the feeling the enemy is always on top of you right after take off. In the German campaigns I rarely run into an enemy aircraft at all. This may be historically correct, as all my campaigns started 01-08.

*When flying the Yak and any ground attack mission is flown, the flight always attacks the enemy aircraft it encounters. Not sure if they jettison their bomb/rocket load, but I suspect not, as they are shot down in quick order. They ignore the fact they're rigged to attack ground targets.

 

Hope this helps.

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*After take off, no matter what plane (I've tried Yak, IL2, 109G2 and F4 and Stuka), the leader (I'm always lowest rank so no 4 or 5) makes a tight turn almost on the deck. Sometimes another flight member can't follow and crashes. Don't know why this is.

 

Haven`t seen this after 1.104 update for the game. There were fixes for AI take off and since then every mission I have played in PWCG and otherwise have worked perfectly. Strange.

 

*Especially in the Russian campaigns I have the feeling the enemy is always on top of you right after take off. In the German campaigns I rarely run into an enemy aircraft at all. This may be historically correct, as all my campaigns started 01-08.

 

In my experience of German campaign is quite opposite. I have been encountered by enemy in every mission. It is adjustable by the PWCG config settings btw.

And the climbing waypoints at the beginning of the mission have helped to get at right altitude before heading out for an patrol. Can´t say much from Russian side though as I haven`t got time to try it yet with the newest version of PWCG.

 

 

*When flying the Yak and any ground attack mission is flown, the flight always attacks the enemy aircraft it encounters. Not sure if they jettison their bomb/rocket load, but I suspect not, as they are shot down in quick order. They ignore the fact they're rigged to attack ground targets.

This is a known feature of fighter AI and I don`t think Pat can adjust it. Han stated that there might be coming changes in future for fighter-bomber AI behaviour that could solve this problem.

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Zami, do you fly as leader or as number last? I just tried another mission and it's "diving for the deck" again, just after T/O.

 

I am aware that Patrick can only do so much. I hope the devs are reading this too and maybe they'll add some tools for guys like Patrick and Warhamm.

I know the settings in the options can be changed to whatever one likes, but in this case (as this is Beta testing) I left them at default, just to make sure it is not those settings to blame.

Goes to show that PWCG is indeed creating missions that will never be the same, and that is a very good thing.

 

I love this generator already.

 

;)

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Zami, do you fly as leader or as number last? I just tried another mission and it's "diving for the deck" again, just after T/O.

 

I am aware that Patrick can only do so much. I hope the devs are reading this too and maybe they'll add some tools for guys like Patrick and Warhamm.

I know the settings in the options can be changed to whatever one likes, but in this case (as this is Beta testing) I left them at default, just to make sure it is not those settings to blame.

Goes to show that PWCG is indeed creating missions that will never be the same, and that is a very good thing.

 

I love this generator already.

 

;)

Usually as a last guy and no problem. When I get home, maybe I have to try Russian campaign and see if there`s a difference with that behaviour. 

 

I use medium/medium settings in simple config. And opposite flights(IIRC) from 1 to 0 in advanced config, this should give more random encounters. But defaults should give you good results also.

 

Feedback is always good. We should give it as much as possible so keep reporting  :salute:

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Some more observations:
- Escort Missions again - I only ever had to escort He111, why aren't Stuka in the mix? Or are they in the mix and I simply hadn't such luck?
- Do wounded AI wingman come back? In a mission I was wounded and one of my wingmen, too. I came back, he was never to be seen again (but I guess this campaign was buggy anyway, when I died, I didn't get the RIP Icon, I only got an Error message. I died in a new campaign and it worked).

Other than that I'm really happy :yahoo: and can't wait for Beta 4 with the new Escort Mission parameter. I think for everything else you have to set the configuration right. The AI works like a charm when the airspace isn't incredibly dense. In one mission there was a flyby by two Pe2. My wing leader shot them down and returned to the next climb WP to lead the pack. Without enemy aircraft around the rendezvous point Escort missions actually work and I think the new Beta will fix this reliably.
 

A few observations from me:
*After take off, no matter what plane (I've tried Yak, IL2, 109G2 and F4 and Stuka), the leader (I'm always lowest rank so no 4 or 5) makes a tight turn almost on the deck. Sometimes another flight member can't follow and crashes. Don't know why this is.

What do you fly? Bomber or fighter?

 

They do this, but in 50 Fighter-Missions with Beta 2 + 3 I only saw once that an AI plane crashed. As T/O accidents were happening sometimes at those times and it only happened once, I regard it as a feature. :D

 

It might be that AI leader tinkers a little bit in low level flight, because the next climb WP is set in an unfortunate position, but I have no problems there (but I only fly fighters, I don't know how bomber react to this).
 

*In about 15-25% of the cases, the leader does not go to the next waypoint after take off, but instead flies indefinite circles around the field.

Yes, I had that 2 or 3 times, too. I think this is an AI problem. Restart the Mission and everything will (usually) work.
 

*In between climb waypoints, the leader sometimes comes to the required altitude before he reaches the next WP. He then throttles back significantly.

You actually want this. In Beta 2 the AI Wing Leader took off and raced from one WP to the next - no chance to close the distance for the AI wingmen or me.

Here's how you fly as wingman with the AI:
- in the climbing phase don't try to fly in formation!
- the most useful approach I found out is: fly on the left side, outside of the climb circle and climb faster than the AI, it is okay, when you are faster, don't throttle down, just climb. Climb at the beginning of the next climb WP. The AI usually throttles down, makes a pause and THEN it is climbing. At that point in time you are above and (maybe) ahead, but as I said, fly on the outside keeping your speed. When the AI banks right you fly with them as wide or as narrow as you have to, to stay in contact and then can use your height advantage to produce sufficient speed to close up with them finally.
Important to know: the AI will only get into formation some way AFTER the last climb WP
 

*Especially in the Russian campaigns I have the feeling the enemy is always on top of you right after take off. In the German campaigns I rarely run into an enemy aircraft at all. This may be historically correct, as all my campaigns started 01-08.

With what air density do you fly? (Simple config)

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Just wondering, for intercept missions, would it be possible/realistic to be told in the briefing what sort of aircraft we're intercepting (such as bombers or fighters, not the exact type of the aircraft)? It would be nice to know if I should use gunpods or not.

That would be great. Also if intercept mission automatically would create something to intercept. Maybe I played around too much with the config options, but I had 2 or 3 Intercept missions where simply nothing was there to interecept, but then... afaik PWCG simulates the whole battleground internally, maybe it is not possible.

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