Taxi To Parking Instructions on the Normandy and Bodenplatte Maps

[KodiakJac]

A long standing question I've had, is why are there so few, if any, pre-defined taxi to parking instructions after landing for the airfields on the Normandy and Bodenplatte maps?

 

On the 3 Russian maps, almost every little podunk airfield has taxi paths defined for your plane and the AI planes to follow after landing.  You can land under AI control, and your plane will then taxi to parking (and you can watch your AI wingmen do the same).  And I'm not complaining about that...it's great fun to watch planes taxi to parking after landing.

 

But on the Normandy and Bodenplatte maps, 1C just kills the engines and leaves the planes sitting there on the runway after landing.  What's up with that?  It's almost as if there is a bias for the Russian maps, as they are better developed in this regard.  It's almost as if a bunch of Russians who don't care about the Western Front maps made this game...lol 😉

 

Inquiring minds want to know.  Maybe they just forgot.  I think 1C should drop everything on the Korea project and put pre-defined "taxi to parking" instructions on every airfield on the Normandy and Bodenplatte maps! 🙂

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, KodiakJac said:

But on the Normandy and Bodenplatte maps, 1C just kills the engines and leaves the planes sitting there on the runway after landing. 

German planes taxi to their parking positions, also on the two western maps.

[Jaegermeister]

Taxi paths are defined by placing waypoints on the taxiways. If the plane just lands and stops before despawning, it is because there are no taxi waypoints placed.

 

My guess is it is done that way to save time in the landing pattern for the player. The longer the AI planes taxi, the longer it is before the next one can land. Maybe that was a partial workaround when it was pointed out that the player always lands last as AI.

 

It would not take a lot of time to add taxi points to the home base runways. Maybe 10 minutes per mission template. Maybe @LukeFF can ask to have it done if it is really a priority, but I would seriously doubt many people would prefer waiting longer to land over watching AI planes taxi to a parking spot.

[LukeFF]

I'd need to know which airfields players are seeing this happening before I can make any sort of request to have this changed. 

[KodiakJac]

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

I'd need to know which airfields players are seeing this happening before I can make any sort of request to have this changed. 

 

Ok, Luke.  Will do.  I have a bunch of careers on the Normandy and Bodenplatte maps, so I'll start a list.

 

4 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Taxi paths are defined by placing waypoints on the taxiways. If the plane just lands and stops before despawning, it is because there are no taxi waypoints placed.

 

My guess is it is done that way to save time in the landing pattern for the player. The longer the AI planes taxi, the longer it is before the next one can land. Maybe that was a partial workaround when it was pointed out that the player always lands last as AI.

 

It would not take a lot of time to add taxi points to the home base runways. Maybe 10 minutes per mission template. Maybe @LukeFF can ask to have it done if it is really a priority, but I would seriously doubt many people would prefer waiting longer to land over watching AI planes taxi to a parking spot.

 

But the player landing last problem can be solved differently, as PWCG campaigns have the player always landing first AND taxiing to parking on the Russian maps.  I would actually prefer the player landing in the order of their position in the flight the way the AI does.  That would provide the most variety in landing position for the player.  So, we should be able to have our cake and eat it, too! 🙂

[Yogiflight]

6 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

The longer the AI planes taxi, the longer it is before the next one can land.

This is not correct. The next aircraft can land as soon as the one before left the runway. How long it taxies after leaving the runway doesn't matter.

[KodiakJac]

Hi @LukeFF

 

I'll start a list in this post and edit it with another airfield each time I confirm one with no taxi to parking instructions, so you'll have them all in one post.  I'll give you a shout when I have 10 or 15 airfields listed for you to take a look at.  I usually fly a couple of missions each day, so it won't take long to start putting a list together.  Thanks!

 

Normandy

Tangmere

Manston

Horne

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2024 by KodiakJac
Added Airfield

[Jaegermeister]

2 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

This is not correct. The next aircraft can land as soon as the one before left the runway. How long it taxies after leaving the runway doesn't matter.

 

Yes and no. Some of the Normandy and Rhineland airfields are quite long. When an AI plane taxis all the way to the end of the runway before turning off it takes a minute or two. I haven't tested if a plane on the runway, but past the end of the runway icon and moving towards a taxi icon prevents a plane from landing. I would guess it does but don't know that for a fact.

 

If they turned off the runway and despawned off to one side on the apron that would be the quickest solution.

[Jaegermeister]

OK, so instead of speculating, I started a career on the Normandy map flying out of Tangmere as mentioned by @KodiakJac above. I saved the mission and opened it in the ME. When looking at the taxi path, I got the following result:

 

 

So maybe it is different on different mission templates, but according to what I see on this mission the AI will taxi most of the way down the runway, turn off, park and despawn just like I suggested above. 

 

All the templates would have to be opened and checked one at a time to see which ones have no taxi points. Just looking at a specific Airfield won't get it. I'm not trying to be negative, just narrowing down the actual issue.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2024 by Jaegermeister

[KodiakJac]

Hi @Jaegermeister

 

The first 3 airfields I listed were from PWCG career missions.  It would seem like it could be a problem with PWCG missions, but when I fly a PWCG mission on a Russian map, my plane and my AI flight members taxi to parking (unlike with Tangmere, Manston, and Horne).  How can it be both ways depending on the map?

 

If there is something simple I can fix on a PWCG mission I would do it.  I'll generate the two mission types I've mentioned above and send them to you to have a look at them (one from Tangmere and one from an airfield on the Stalingrad map...for instance).

 

Thanks for looking into this!

[KodiakJac]

@Jaegermeister

 

Ok...here you go.  The Fw190-A3 mission is on the Stalingrad map.  The player's plane and AI wingmen will taxi to parking after landing.  The A20 mission is on the Normandy map, and the player's aircraft will not taxi to parking (nor will the AI wingmen).  Their engines will cut out on the runway immediately after landing.  Both missions were generated by PWCG.

 

Thanks for looking at these, Jaegermeister! 

 

cc: @PatrickAWlson

 

A20 1943-06-30.zip Fw 190 A-3 1942-08-14.zip

Edited October 16, 2024 by KodiakJac

[AEthelraedUnraed]

3 hours ago, KodiakJac said:

How can it be both ways depending on the map?

The taxi paths are defined in the mission files, not in the map files. So if PWCG uses different (faulty or outdated) templates than the official ones that the stock career uses for the Bodenplatte/Normandy maps, this can cause the described behaviour.

 

The fact that taxi paths are defined in the mission files means that a mission designer can customise them as needed, and even create custom airfields outside of the "official" ones.

[PatrickAWlson]

PWCG has not supported taxing for a long time now.  Normandy does not have any taxi paths defined at all.  Murleen did a lot of work defining taxi paths on some of the other maps but they never worked 100%.  I left taxiing in with a "try at your risk" caveat.  

 

Summary: In PWCG, Normandy has no taxiways defined.  Taxiing on the Normandy map will not work.  Taxiing on other maps might or might not work.  Try it if you wish.

[c19580]

What is the point of taxiing to park?

[KodiakJac]

5 hours ago, c19580 said:

What is the point of taxiing to park?

 

Realism.

[BlackSix]

Perhaps my information is outdated, but moving an aircraft on the ground takes as much or even more resources from performance than a regular flight. I don't create templates for the career, but in all scripted campaigns I make it so that the AI planes leave the runway as quickly as possible and disappear after landing.

Full taxiing to the parking is an unacceptable "wastefulness" if there are 25-30 planes in the air at that time.

[KodiakJac]

@BlackSix

 

Taxiing off the runway is good enough, BlackSix!

 

I play Career, Campaign, and PWCG modes interchangeably, and it wasn't till Pat's comment above that I realized that only in PWCG campaigns on the more recent maps the AI engine is killed on the runway.  Every other mode I play is plenty realistic enough.  For instance, in your scripted campaigns I believe you taxi the AI planes off the runway and stop in nearby parking.  And that's great!  It's enough to add a feeling of realism.  And you're right, only in a few scripted campaigns the AI planes taxi to distant or original parking locations, and that can be tedious.

 

All is good! 

[Gambit21]

On 10/25/2024 at 2:42 PM, c19580 said:

What is the point of taxiing to park?

Most aircraft must taxi to get to their parking spot, especially if the teleportation system is damaged.