Bf 109 F-4 1.42 Start&Notleistung (WEP) duration.

[the_emperor]

currently in game its limited to 1min, but should probably corrected to be 3min, at least by the time the setting was cleared, as it seems that up to mid 1942 this engine regime was blocked.

and was released around mid 1942.

 

then cleared with a practical 3min allowance

 

also confirmed by allied intelligence reports

 

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109F4_Datenblatts/109F4_dblatt_calculated.html

Edited December 6, 2024 by the_emperor

[Sgt_Joch]

No that is a lie, it was blocked until mid-late 43 (sources vary) and then only “officially” cleared for 1 minute.

 

Why do you keep posting such easily disproved misinformation?

 

Edited August 16, 2024 by Sgt_Joch

[LukeFF]

46 minutes ago, Sgt_Joch said:

No that is a lie, it was blocked until mid-late 43 (sources vary) and then only “officially” cleared for 1 minute.

 

Why do you keep posting such easily disproved misinformation?

 

Let's watch it with how we characterize other persons' comments.

[Roland_HUNter]

15 hours ago, Sgt_Joch said:

No that is a lie, it was blocked until mid-late 43 (sources vary) and then only “officially” cleared for 1 minute.

 

Why do you keep posting such easily disproved misinformation?

 

That is DB605 Bro, not DB601.

[the_emperor]

On 8/17/2024 at 12:36 AM, Sgt_Joch said:

No that is a lie, it was blocked until mid-late 43 (sources vary) and then only “officially” cleared for 1 minute.

 

Why do you keep posting such easily disproved misinformation?

 

What is a lie? we only have documents, that can be interpreted differently.

And I guess you are confused, this is not about the DB605a but the DB601E for the F- Versions.

 

[the_emperor]

thx @Roland_HUNter & @Kurfuerst

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109F4_Datenblatts/109F4_dblatt_calculated.html

[Roland_HUNter]

On 7/27/2024 at 1:57 PM, the_emperor said:

currently in game its limited to 1min, but should probably corrected to be 3min, at least by the time the setting was cleared, as it seems that up to mid 1942 this engine regime was blocked.

and was released around mid 1942.

 

then cleared with a practical 3min allowance

 

also confirmed by allied intelligence reports

 

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109F4_Datenblatts/109F4_dblatt_calculated.html

So based on this, in late 1941-mid 1942, F2 should have 3 min on 1.42 ATA? That would be interesting ^^

[the_emperor]

47 minutes ago, Roland_HUNter said:

in late 1941-mid 1942, F2 should have 3 min on 1.42 ATA?

 

well, I would say to be certain by mid 42.(or earlier of someone can show a manual for that)

but yeah, then 3min für 1.42 ata for the F-4.

I mean, even the allied intelligence reports give that limit and the Germans literately painted it on their gauges.

 

[Roland_HUNter]

5 hours ago, the_emperor said:

 

well, I would say to be certain by mid 42.(or earlier of someone can show a manual for that)

but yeah, then 3min für 1.42 ata for the F-4.

I mean, even the allied intelligence reports give that limit and the Germans literately painted it on their gauges.

 

I mean, F-2 with DB-601N based on allied report, what you've uploaded.

[the_emperor]

18 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

I mean, F-2 with DB-601N based on allied report, what you've uploaded.

 Ah yes, sorry. I was just focused on the F-4

But iirc that is already in the game

Edited December 7, 2024 by the_emperor

[Roland_HUNter]

10 hours ago, the_emperor said:

 Ah yes, sorry. I was just focused on the F-4

But iirc that is already in the game

True ^^ My bad.

[LukeFF]

@the_emperor, thanks for the help in gathering this information. 🙂

[Roland_HUNter]

@the_emperor You have any info about the DB-603?

[the_emperor]

@LukeFF you are welcome.

 

@Roland_HUNter

no, neither 1 nor 3min limit mentioned anywhere

[Roland_HUNter]

No 1 min mentioned? Then why it's limited to 1 min?
Although if we think of the 5 minutes of He 177, which was 2 605s, I suppose 603 could easily have handled 3 mins at.

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

On 12/17/2024 at 6:40 PM, LukeFF said:

@the_emperor, thanks for the help in gathering this information. 🙂

Hey, hope you don‘t mind me asking, but is there a particular reason why the devs retained the 1 minute limit for the F4's (and the G4/6's, though that‘s only somewhat related) 1.42 ata rating instead of limiting it to 1.3 ata and making the 3 minute unlockable? 
 

I don‘t particularly know if the 109 F4 ever had a 1 minute limit for the 1.42 ata rating since the situation is pretty convoluted with how many different engines there were for the 109.

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, FTC_ChilliBalls said:

Hey, hope you don‘t mind me asking, but is there a particular reason why the devs retained the 1 minute limit for the F4's (and the G4/6's, though that‘s only somewhat related) 1.42 ata rating instead of limiting it to 1.3 ata and making the 3 minute unlockable? 
 

I don‘t particularly know if the 109 F4 ever had a 1 minute limit for the 1.42 ata rating since the situation is pretty convoluted with how many different engines there were for the 109.

 

That would be for @Gavrick to explain. 

[Roland_HUNter]

4 hours ago, FTC_ChilliBalls said:

Hey, hope you don‘t mind me asking, but is there a particular reason why the devs retained the 1 minute limit for the F4's (and the G4/6's, though that‘s only somewhat related) 1.42 ata rating instead of limiting it to 1.3 ata and making the 3 minute unlockable? 
 

I don‘t particularly know if the 109 F4 ever had a 1 minute limit for the 1.42 ata rating since the situation is pretty convoluted with how many different engines there were for the 109.

You mean, F4, G4, G6 should have the same "engine" as the G2 without modi? Then this method should be true on other planes as well.
You can use max power in P40 without modi, while its "prohibited".

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

40 minutes ago, Roland_HUNter said:

You mean, F4, G4, G6 should have the same "engine" as the G2 without modi? Then this method should be true on other planes as well.
You can use max power in P40 without modi, while its "prohibited".

I rather meant the F4 should have the same limit (the respective Steig- und Kampfleistung) as the G2 by default, and have the full Notleistung rating be an unlockable option. 
 

The G4 and G6 should follow this exact scheme from my understanding, the engine being either locked to Kampfleistung or 3 minutes of Notleistung. But then again, both G4s and G6s without the unlocked 605 existed only for a marginal timeframe, IMO it would be best to just have both of them with the 3-minute limit by default.

 

This would enable us to create way more scenarios than we currently can.

Edited January 4 by FTC_ChilliBalls

[Roland_HUNter]

12 minutes ago, FTC_ChilliBalls said:

I rather meant the F4 should have the same limit (the respective Steig- und Kampfleistung) as the G2 by default, and have the full Notleistung rating be an unlockable option. 
 

The G4 and G6 should follow this exact scheme from my understanding, the engine being either locked to Kampfleistung or 3 minutes of Notleistung. But then again, both G4s and G6s without the unlocked 605 existed only for a marginal timeframe, IMO it would be best to just have both of them with the 3-minute limit by default.

I understand your point regarding the F4 and its limits. However, I’m curious about the criteria you would use to decide when the full Notleistung rating should be unlocked for the F4.

Regarding the G4, as you mentioned, it was produced in September 1942, and the issue was addressed around March 1943 according to available sources. The G6, on the other hand, started production in February 1943. Given these timelines, I agree that the 3-minute limit could make more sense by default for both the G6 and maybe for G4.

Also, I think the Me 410 could definitely be considered in this discussion, as it might provide additional context for balancing the aircraft.