To the devs: what graphics card for VR?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Hey devs, hey TFS... as title reads: what EXISTING graphics card do you recommend for "Cliffs of Dover - Blitz" in VR?

 

 

[Aapje]

What are your criteria? Price/performance? Outright speed? Cheapest that works well enough?

 

And for what headset?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

You're right Aapje, I should have given more information than that.

 

First of all, I always had a favorable idea for Nvidia GeForce graphics cards. That's what I always had and that's what I want. Years ago, from 2005 to 2019, I had a GTX 460. Since 2019 I have a GTX 1660. Now for my "new" rig (keep reading for it will be a second-hand computer) I'll need a new graphics card.

 

 

On 2/26/2024 at 1:13 PM, Aapje said:

What are your criteria? Price/performance? Outright speed? Cheapest that works well enough?

 

 

I live in France and most likely will purchase a second-hand graphics card. For example, here where I live, I could pay 350€ for the shipping of a second-hand RTX 4060 in good condition. Infact that's my budget at the moment, no more than 300€ or 350€. Cliffs of Dover Beta testers satisfactorily using their graphics card could simply tell me "yep, Kintaro, Cliffs in VR is good enough with my [brand/model/version] video card". If my budget then allows the purchase, then I'll go on with the purchase of the suggested brand/model/version... why not.

 

 

On 2/26/2024 at 1:13 PM, Aapje said:

And for what headset?

 

 

I'll purchase the VR headset later, accordingly with the graphics card... thus both purchases, graphics card and headset, will need to be weighed accordingly.

 

A friend of mine is selling me his second-hand rig... but he's keeping his computer case and his graphics card, so I'll need to purchase them separately.

 

That's the rig to which I'll need to adapt my future graphics card and VR headset (EDIT, 'cause finally my rig is a bit better than expected )

 

Motherboard ASRock Z370 Killer SLI P4.30

Intel i7 9700k
RAM 32GB

RTX 2080
Watercooling CPU Cooler Master Pro 240
Power supply unit 850W Corsair

 

(and... yes, I plan to replace the GC with a better one if I want to go VR)

 

At the moment, I think that a Geforce RTX 4060 and a Reverb G2 would be fine, but I'd prefer that some Beta testers tell me how does this equipment behave with Cliffs of Dover Blitz. Anyone out there? Aapje? What about you? What do you think?

 

 

Edited March 4, 2024 by 343KKT_Kintaro

[OBT-Lionel]

Salut Kintaro,

 

Pour la VR, tu prends la carte la plus puissante possible, et cela ne sera pas suffisant.

[Aapje]

@343KKT_Kintaro

 

I don't play CoD. I was primarily trying to get you to share some info so others can give good advice.

 

The Reverb G2 is end of life and support is going to be removed from Windows 11. You may be good if you stick with Windows 10...or not. Perhaps you can now get a good second hand deal since people will probably migrate off it now. But again, it is risky.

 

Another possibility is a cheap 2nd hand Quest 2. Lots of barely used headsets getting sold on.

 

Flight sims are typically very CPU-heavy, especially in VR, so that 2nd hand computer is not great. A second hand AM4 system with a 5700X3D or 5800X3D upgrade would be a much better base. But if your friend is giving you a great deal, then it makes sense to get his rig.

 

I don't really understand your plan to get a latest generation video card from the second hand market. That's not how you get a good deal. I see a 3070 for an asking price of 325 euro in The Netherlands, so that would fit in your budget. A 3060 Ti is not that much weaker. A 4060 is significantly weaker than both.

 

People will tell you that this is very insufficient, but people on this forum have played BOX with similar systems and were happy with it. Of course, I don't know if CoD is more demanding. You probably need to tune things very efficiently. I don't see advice on this for CoD, so that might make it hard to optimize well.

 

Just keep in mind that VR is extremely demanding and if you want to really use the headsets to their full potential, then you need really high-end hardware. You can make do with less, but don't expect the best.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Thank you Aapje, I'll keep in mind what you said. If others still want to intervene in the thread so that they bring me what they consider is useful information... I'm all ears!

 

Merci Lionel, je prends en compte ce que tu me dis. Cela dit, "la plus puissante possible" je n'en aurai pas vraiment besoin avant quelques années. Je t'expliquerai.

 

 

[Buzzsaw]

From experience, the Nvidia cards usually work slightly better with CLIFFS.

 

If you want a maxxed out VR experience, probably best to get the latest and greatest.

 

As has been mentioned, when you are using a headset, you are asking your video card to process two sets of images... so double what the demand is for 2d.

 

Probably a 3080 or 4080 for nice results or if you want to go big bucks 3090/4090.

 

That is not to say something less will run the game in VR, but you have to dial down your resolution etc.  So depending on the model, a 4060 might be enough.  Better a 3070 or 4070... Ti models preferred.

 

Processor also very important... Core I9 recommended.

[Aapje]

7 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Probably a 3080 or 4080 for nice results or if you want to go big bucks 3090/4090.

This is a weird recommendation since a second hand 3090 is both slower and cheaper than a 4080.

 

And these are pretty clearly in a completely unrealistic price bracket when the topic starter is upgrading to a 7 year old 2nd hand PC. That's why I asked for more information, since it is pretty pointless to suggest $1k and up cards to someone whose entire budget for a PC is in that range (or even below).

 

7 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Processor also very important... Core I9 recommended.

This is also not the best advice for someone who is (also) looking at 2nd hand options because they may think that upgrading to an 9900k is going to be a huge upgrade. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen someone try to upgrade an old platform for minimal gain and high expense, because they think that any i9 is so much better than anything else.

 

And for the latest generations, the X3D AMD processors are better for simming than the Core i9.

 

I don't really like blanket recommendations for a certain tier, since there is much more nuance than that.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

10 cores CPU are more expensive and you  don't see any significant improvement in game fps. There is some gains (reary above 10% ) going from 6 to 8 cores. CPUs with big L3 cache that what matters most , given similar clocks and IPCs. VR is very delicate matter because you feel more or are aware of any drops, stutters, etc same with clarity which only SS can deliver. I would stay on 2d if the components are to expensive for my wallet or play less demanding VR games. Flight simulators ate not in that category unfortunately.

Edited February 27, 2024 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[Aapje]

@1PL-Husar-1Esk

 

True, but if you go back 6 years in this forum then you see people salivating over playing in VR with a $1200 2080 Ti. You can now get that level with a second hand 3070 for a fraction of that price. So it's also a matter of perspective.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

AMD 5800X3D is a really good CPU, even today. I am using one without performance issues in any game. I did the undervolting and some other tweaks to further improve the experience. No need for liquid cooling to keep temps on check.

 

If wanting best bang for buck on gaming CPU the 7800X3D is a great deal. Trumps any game and will be enough for VR for sure. Intel 14900K just runs too hot requiring some serious cooling and is very power hungry. Every single hardware site will confirm this.

 

I am using an AMD RX6950XT 16Gb card and according to tests it is faster than 3090Ti and on par with 4070 series in RAW rasterization. In VR you do not use RT anyway and no sim uses it, at least not yet. I expect Vulkan API will help too, especially in DCS.

 

For a GPU I would recommend at least 4080Ti card or better from nVidia. AMD 7900XTX would propably be best from red team. There is no use to go budget in VR, just waters the experience. Budget is like playing Minecraft and would not settle for that. This is why still on 2D..

 

VR headsets are a bit out of my league so not making any assumptions. Maybe Varjo Aero, Pimax Crystal or such?

[Aapje]

56 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

For a GPU I would recommend at least 4080Ti card or better from nVidia.

That card does not exist. Do you mean the 4080 Super?

 

56 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

 

VR headsets are a bit out of my league so not making any assumptions. Maybe Varjo Aero, Pimax Crystal or such?

All of that is outside of price range of the topic starter for sure. The Quest 3 is already very good as a midrange headset and a second hand Quest 2 or Reverb G2 can be fine if you don't expect the most.

 

Again, keep in mind that many people here only consider the bleeding edge to be acceptable, but many of these same people were quite happy with much weaker hardware some years ago, when that was bleeding edge. The topic starter may have far lower expectations.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

@Aapje Yep meant the 4080 Super. For me VR means going "balls to the wall" or nothing. I want the full fidelity. And because of this I have settled on a decent 2D setup that runs games I play well in 1440p aka 5800X3D paired with a 6950XT plus 64gig of RAM.

 

Again you do not have to sell a kidney etc. to get a 5800X3D setup for example. B550 series motherboard is fully adequate for a gamer. No need to buy a 500€ mobo with many features you do not even use. 5800X3D and now even 5700X3D are affordable CPUs. As of GPU the situation is more tricky, but again nVidia and AMD have dropped their prices considerably lately and it does reflect to prices of used cards as well. So a good deal can be found in a midrange segment as well.

 

Edited February 27, 2024 by LLv34_Flanker

[Aapje]

@LLv34_Flanker

 

Sure, but that is a choice. For flat gaming there are also plenty of people perfectly content with much weaker systems than what you have.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Thank you @Buzzsaw, I'll keep in mind all what you said, for sure I will.

 

Also, guys, Aapje, Husar and Flanker, I thank you equally for all the useful pieces of information you brought to the thread.

 

 

[Buzzsaw]

By the way, if you plan on running VR, lots of RAM is also a good idea.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

@343KKT_Kintaro The best card you can get, possibly a 7800X3D/4090/32 GB DDR5.

 

I'm selling a 5800X3D/RTX3080/32GB system if you're looking to save a bit on a nice, water-cooled used system. Feel free to PM me.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

4 hours ago, =DW=_Drewm3i-VR said:

@343KKT_Kintaro The best card you can get, possibly a 7800X3D/4090/32 GB DDR5.

 

I'm selling a 5800X3D/RTX3080/32GB system if you're looking to save a bit on a nice, water-cooled used system. Feel free to PM me.

 

 

Thank you Drewm3i, but I already purchased a "new" rig. It's a second-hand rig for which, I hope, I'll afford a nice upgrade in the next few months.

 

 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Installed 64Gb 3600MHz CL16 DDR4 RAM on my system and have not regretted it. Especially in DCS it has helped. It tends to use both VRAM and RAM quite a bit. No performance issues in any of the 3 sims.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

On 3/3/2024 at 6:39 AM, LLv34_Flanker said:

Installed 64Gb 3600MHz CL16 DDR4 RAM on my system and have not regretted it. Especially in DCS it has helped. It tends to use both VRAM and RAM quite a bit. No performance issues in any of the 3 sims.

 

 

Thanks for the answer Flanker. Finally my headset will be a Reverb G2 and my rig still is second-hand, but not the same, now that's what I got:

 

Motherboard ASRock Z370 Killer SLI P4.30
Intel i7 9700k
RAM 32GB Corsair
RTX 2080
Watercooling CPU Cooler Master Pro 240
Power supply unit 850W Corsair

 

The RAM can be upgraded to 64GB (minimum), but I'd need to fit the whole rig into a larger case 'cause the watercooling system prevents from fitting a RAM stick into one specific slot.

 

Now my budget is getting smaller and smaller, so I'm hoping I can find a good discount for a second-hand RTX 4070 or 4080.

 

Again, thank you for the input.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2024 by 343KKT_Kintaro

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

A couple of tips when installing liquid cooling. Best would be that the radiator is horisontally  at roof of case, above the pump. If installing vertically at front or rear of the case, make sure that top of the radiator is above the pump and tubes at bottom of radiator. This way air that is in the system will not degrade performance by causing bubbling. Also reduces pump noises when bubble free liquid flows.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 hour ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

A couple of tips when installing liquid cooling. Best would be that the radiator is horisontally  at roof of case, above the pump. If installing vertically at front or rear of the case, make sure that top of the radiator is above the pump and tubes at bottom of radiator. This way air that is in the system will not degrade performance by causing bubbling. Also reduces pump noises when bubble free liquid flows.

 

 

Thank you so much for the tip Flanker, indeed this is exactly how my cooling system is fitted. I can provide a photograph:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I think the water cooling is not a good option since standard air cooling is very good.  Plus it's cheaper compared to water - pump solution.

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

13 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I think the water cooling is not a good option since standard air cooling is very good.  Plus it's cheaper compared to water - pump solution.

 

 

Thank you Husar. I accept what you say... but what I finally did was nothing than making a choice: the water cooler was already installed in a second-hand rig that I found in the internet for a cheaper price than my original budget. All in all I paid 955€ only (680€ the rig, 275€ the Reverb G2). That's finally the cheapest expense that I could have for a start in he use of VR. In a few years to come, at release of Combat Pilot (or any other new generation combat flight sim) I should be ready to purchase a new rig.

 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

16 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

Thank you Husar. I accept what you say... but what I finally did was nothing than making a choice: the water cooler was already installed in a second-hand rig that I found in the internet for a cheaper price than my original budget. All in all I paid 955€ only (680€ the rig, 275€ the Reverb G2). That's finally the cheapest expense that I could have for a start in he use of VR. In a few years to come, at release of Combat Pilot (or any other new generation combat flight sim) I should be ready to purchase a new rig.

 

 

I understand. I just switch to AMD platform recently , for years I was Intel guy. I'm happy for AMD performance , cost and future cpu upgrade, for cooling my 10 years old noctua dh14, still is the great air cooler. It's also great that noctua is easy to switch between Intel /amd sockets.

Water cooling is not that reliable, I had one in the past. 

Edited March 4, 2024 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[dgiatr]

23 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

Thanks for the answer Flanker. Finally my headset will be a Reverb G2 and my rig still is second-hand, but not the same, now that's what I got:

 

Motherboard ASRock Z370 Killer SLI P4.30
Intel i7 9700k
RAM 32GB Corsair
RTX 2080
Watercooling CPU Cooler Master Pro 240
Power supply unit 850W Corsair

 

The RAM can be upgraded to 64GB (minimum), but I'd need to fit the whole rig into a larger case 'cause the watercooling system prevents from fitting a RAM stick into one specific slot.

 

Now my budget is getting smaller and smaller, so I'm hoping I can find a good discount for a second-hand RTX 4070 or 4080.

 

Again, thank you for the input.

 

 

G2 is a nice headset for "Cliffs of Dover - Blitz", i used it some months ago as a beta tester in pair with one rtx 3090 ti with no issues at all, except game crashes  ( but that was a game issue ). Noways i think after the improvements the dev team has made to the game , i believe that it will work better.

 

As an impression thought, clod was more fps hungry compared to il2 , but now i think it will be less...  

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 minute ago, dgiatr said:

G2 is a nice headset for "Cliffs of Dover - Blitz", i used it some months ago as a beta tester in pair with one rtx 3090 ti with no issues at all, except game crashes  ( but that was a game issue ). Noways i think after the improvements the dev team has made to the game , i believe that it will work better.

 

As an impression thought, clod was more fps hungry compared to il2 , but now i think it will be less...  

 

 

Thank you for the input!

 

 

[Gunfreak]

On 2/27/2024 at 11:23 AM, Aapje said:

This is a weird recommendation since a second hand 3090 is both slower and cheaper than a 4080.

 

 

3090 has more Vram than 3080, and vram is actually important in flight sims.

If you are gonna invest in hardware that will let you fly current and future flight sims(or other VR games) then 3090, 4080 or 4090 is best to go, yes you can run VR and vr flight sims with a 2080ti, 3080, 4060, 4070 etc., but if you want not have to worry about VR requirements for a while, then really a 4090 is the best option or wait for the 4080ti that will come some time this year. 

48 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

Thank you for the input!

 

 

 

Problem with G2 is  that it's a dead headset, HP is out of the VR business and G2 will not work on Win 11 in a year or so. I loved my G2, but I'm very happy I jumped to Pimax Crystal as just a few months later the news dropped that G2 is on very borrowed time. If you want a sub 1000 dollar headset, it's Quest 3 or Pico 4. With Quest 3 probably being safer. 
Valve is probably working on a new headset, so is Varjo but I'm getting they'll be in the $1000-2500 range.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

I didn't spend millions on this second-hand material, so I consider it's provisory. The Reverb G2 will be delivered within a few days only. I'll test it with this rig so I simply need to be sure that both work fine together. If so, I'll stick to Windows 10 for one or two more years and then go from this rig & headset to completely new ones. Thank you for the input Gunfreak.

 

[Aapje]

4 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

3090 has more Vram than 3080, and vram is actually important in flight sims.

 

Someone tested the games in VR and IL-2 maxed out at 7 GB, MSFS at 11.5 GB and DCS less than 16 GB unless the Apache module is around. But you can lower object textures to medium to stay below 16 GB with the Apache.

 

I'd take the much bigger horsepower of the 4080 over the extra 8 GB of VRAM of the 3090 every day of the week for VR simming. The extra FPS and/or ability to increase render resolution should always be better, even if you have to lower object textures to medium.

 

4 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

If you are gonna invest in hardware that will let you fly current and future flight sims(or other VR games) then 3090, 4080 or 4090 is best to go, yes you can run VR and vr flight sims with a 2080ti, 3080, 4060, 4070 etc., but if you want not have to worry about VR requirements for a while, then really a 4090 is the best option or wait for the 4080ti that will come some time this year.

 

Of course, getting the most expensive card is always going to last you longer, but outlay, depreciation and the loss you incur if the card stops working are all way higher.

 

If you had gotten the 3080 for MSRP during the last generation, rather than a 3090, you would have saved so much money, that you could have gotten a 4080 Super upgrade for the price of the 3080 and 3090 together.

[Roover]

Salut Kintaro.

 

VR = Un bon cpu, pas juste la carte graphique. Tu peux etre "Cpu bound" si tu as une bonne carte graphique mais un cpu un peu plus faible.

 

La memoire est tres importante aussi. Rapidite et quantite.

 

Pour resume il est important d'avoir un CPU qui peut supporter ta carte graphique.

 

VR is really demanding.

 

Bonne chance dans tes achats

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Super ! Merci Roover ! J'ai toujours été un joueur PC pour qui d'autres montaient le PC, mais grâce à vous tous j'apprends de plus en plus... bref, merci.