DII Autocannon with WW2 HE ammo - a meme

[No.23_Starling]

All, I realise some of you don’t like the idea of a SPAD in game fitted with a single shot cannon, even if dozens actually flew in the conflict from 1917. It’s curious that I’m seeing historically minded servers allowing an optional mod that’s pure fiction:

Williams and Gustin, Flying Guns of WW1.

 

Put it in Bergola or a dogfight server, sure. As funny as it is to see (and use) it’s going to drive away players. Baumer and co, you might want to lock it on historical maps.

 

[Trooper117]

Looking at that video, if that's what it could do for real, all German pilots would have wanted it.

The fact that it never saw service or was adopted for scout aircraft speaks volumes...

[J99_Sizzlorr]

Funny thing is the one guy that is monologuing about ww1 planes with cannons in this forum is the most offended when there are planes with cannons in multiplayer. I guess it is the wrong plane that got it though. 

[No.23_Starling]

10 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Funny thing is the one guy that is monologuing about ww1 planes with cannons in this forum is the most offended when there are planes with cannons in multiplayer. I guess it is the wrong plane that got it though. 

I look forward to seeing you add the Me-262 to Flugpark. After all that German engineering helped them win the war. 

[J99_Sizzlorr]

So you changed your mind about cannons in ww1 planes then?

[No.23_Starling]

13 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

So you changed your mind about cannons in ww1 planes then?

Er I haven’t changed my mind about frontline fighters that existed vs those that didn’t. Am I missing something? ?

 

The SPAD XIII was fitted with an experimental supercharger but never saw service. Should we have supercharged SPADs?

Edited November 2, 2023 by US103_Rummell
Spelling mistake driven by rage and confusion

[J99_Sizzlorr]

Well then have some fun with it and precive it like a test run for the Spad XII...

[No.23_Starling]

Just now, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Well then have some fun with it and precive it like a test run for the Spad XII...

Who said I’m not doing that already…? ?

[J99_Sizzlorr]

Well you did...didn't you? Isn't this your topic about how memey this is that the mod is flyable in multiplayer? And you want to lock it. That doesn't sound like having fun with it to me. I am not sure what the bigger meme is. You complaining about cannons on ww1 planes in multiplayer while on the other hand lobbying for more ww1 planes with cannons or the fact that some servers have every weapon mod accessible in multiplayer so that people can check them out? What are your experiences with the weapon mod besides the video montage you linked here? I haven't flown it so I can not attest to what the bigger meme here is...

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I was thinking that this can be OP but I see that this Spad was actually operational in front and  I'm not against it having it in the game. Becker Albatros was not in the service so this mod is just BS in the  game which stravie to be simulation in historical realm as  the missions which we play in multiplayer.

[J99_Sizzlorr]

4 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I was thinking that this can be OP but I see that this Spad was actually operational in front and  I'm not against it having it in the game. Becker Albatros was not in the service so this mod is just BS in the  game which stravie to be simulation in historical realm as  the missions which we play in multiplayer.

Then please remove it from the simulation...

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

3 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Then please remove it from the simulation...

You know I can't , but you can remove it  from missions you build.

[J99_Sizzlorr]

Just now, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

You know I can't , but you can remove it  from missions you build.

No I can not it is a server setting and I am not in control of that. I don't have the Becker cannon as default loadout, that is all I can do. But how many of 6 Albatros D.II pilots do you think will take off with the gun? 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

3 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

No I can not it is a server setting and I am not in control of that. I don't have the Becker cannon as default loadout, that is all I can do. But how many of 6 Albatros D.II pilots do you think will take off with the gun? 

I see. I don't care really how many pilots take becker gun, from gameplay perspective I dont care, only for historical reason I prefer not to have them avaliable. But if people like them, lets them play with it. Whatever make them play and have fun.

[No.23_Starling]

29 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Well you did...didn't you? Isn't this your topic about how memey this is that the mod is flyable in multiplayer? And you want to lock it. That doesn't sound like having fun with it to me. I am not sure what the bigger meme is. You complaining about cannons on ww1 planes in multiplayer while on the other hand lobbying for more ww1 planes with cannons or the fact that some servers have every weapon mod accessible in multiplayer so that people can check them out? What are your experiences with the weapon mod besides the video montage you linked here? I haven't flown it so I can not attest to what the bigger meme here is...

I think the meme might be you confusing historical cannon with historical canon. I’m all for more planes and mods…. which actually existed.

[J99_Sizzlorr]

Just yesterday I talked about this very topic to some people I had a conversation with anyway. Most of them didn't care about the mods, some voiced their concerns about the Becker gun, which I totally understand. I rather not have it in either. But I don't call the shots on this. Then when we are at weapon mods, which ones would you lock for entente? You know the eye for an eye to keep both parties happy?

6 minutes ago, US103_Rummell said:

I think the meme might be you confusing historical cannon with historical canon. I’m all for more planes and mods…. which actually existed.

I didn't add it to the game nor to the missions I created. I just doubt that being fired at by cannon from ww1 biplanes is much fun. No matter if they actually did it or not. I think of something else when I hear ww1 dogfights...

Edited November 2, 2023 by J99_Sizzlorr

[No.23_Starling]

37 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Just yesterday I talked about this very topic to some people I had a conversation with anyway. Most of them didn't care about the mods, some voiced their concerns about the Becker gun, which I totally understand. I rather not have it in either. But I don't call the shots on this. Then when we are at weapon mods, which ones would you lock for entente? You know the eye for an eye to keep both parties happy?

I didn't add it to the game nor to the missions I created. I just doubt that being fired at by cannon from ww1 biplanes is much fun. No matter if they actually did it or not. I think of something else when I hear ww1 dogfights...

Where did I say you managed the maps? I mentioned Baumer and J5. You do a great job for the community doing the builds. +1 Nobi for his support 

[Smigol]

Hi I am the author of the video.

 

I was aksed to share my thoughts and experiences with the Becker, so.

How I see it is: the Becker is an incredibly good weapon, even though it doesnt have much ammo and constantly jams, it is still quite OP when it hits. Since there was 

actually only one plane fitted with this weapon as a prototype, why not simply limit it on historical servers? Either allow the Becker only in 1917+ rotation, or allow just one Albatros D.II with the Becker to be used at once. Such sollution is already done to, for example Hanriot with Balloon guns in some rotations. It's a "separate" plane and players are only allowed to spawn one Hanriot with balloon guns at a time. 

Either way.

I do not see the whole Becker problem as a major issue, after all, apart from me there was maybe a total of 2-3 people using it. It doesn't scare away new players, because there hardly are ANY new players. What I mean is that the usage of Becker isn't frequent enough to cause any major issues as of now. I am done making the video and won't be using it for now anyway. 

So to conclude,

 

I am definitely negative about removing the Becker completely, it is after all an exotic and fun modification that brings some diversity to a gameplay, that to be honest is quite stale (just biplanes with two machine guns dogfighting and that's really it). Even though it was just a prototype, and even though it is OP in the right hands, it should still be available, BUT, with time, perhaps limited either by numbers or by rotation or spawn location. 

[Red_Von_Hammer]

Can't say I didn't see this coming...
Yesterday, long before this thread was even started, I DM'ed with both @J99_Sizzlorr, Flugpark mission maker (not to be mistaked for server admin, though that's apparently popular belief anyway), and @Smigol, the player who for all intents and purposes appears to be held responsible for recent D.II 20mm shenanigans.
I asked Smigol to come in here and share his thoughts (edit: Looks like he beat me to the punch).

I also pointed out to Sizzlorr the same source material brought up in the first post here (Flying Guns of WW1).

As far as Smigol  goes, he does Youtube, part of maintaining success on Youtube when it goes for air combat simulators, as we know, means achieving air to air victories with peculiar and unusual means, including unusual and peculiar weapons systems.

I needn't impress the fact he obviously has had hours and hours of practice, in not just FC, but also other online air combat titles, in much the same way.
I've been putting far more hurt on Albatross D.II's with the N.11 Lewis overwing in FC alone, not to mention RoF, than they have to me.
And when it pertains to N.11, here's a screenshot from an evening when Flugpark ran 1917 Verdun, where I caught and shut down Smigol's D.II Becker aspirations right quick, within 3 moves after merge:

.. Yeah, needless to say he was booted back to the hangar map by the time his plane leveled out.
When he DM'ed and asked how I did it, I told him the same thing I'm telling you here now, I fired a burst, saw hits, walked them in with stick & rudder control, and it was over within seconds, to which he replied he likely couldn't replicate the same results.
What comes around, goes around, there's always someone better or luckier, part and parcel of combat on any WW1 MP simulator, as anyone here can attest.

Smigol doesn't have TrackIR, and unless everyone forgot all of a sudden, there was at least a year or so where he enjoyed little to limited success in multiplayer.
And yet, did he get on here and accuse Camel's and Dr.1's for whipping around on him? Or SE5's & Spad's for stomping him in BnZ? Or how that would cause people to leave FC?

More importantly: He hasn't used it on anyone but Flugpark regulars.
In fact, most of the shoot-downs he has, are against me, not new players.

The second he earns dividends for the hours he has put in, all of a sudden apparently "everyone", including people whom I KNOW for a fact have no qualms or remorse using absolutely advantageous weapons systems (regardless whether they are historical or not) against brand new players, cases in which people have actually left the game.

Yet at the mere sight of Smigol fighting me 1v1, they now seem to turn around, and appears to wants this one weapon banned, based on "historical accuracy", while at the same time also using superior weapons & tactics (called "cheesing the game", with younger gamers) and basing it on results achieved with said weapons system being the clear exception, not the norm..

"ww2 ammo", the hit message log does say that, doesn't it?
But did anyone think to ask @LukeFF if he could look into whether or not that's actually the case, and whether the explosive mass has been toned down?
Another interesting fact that book says, is that the Becker is the basis for the Oerlikon 20mm as well.
I mean, the cat's outta the bag with that one, maybe we need to ban 7.92x57IS weapons because that same caliber is used in WWII as well.

"causing new players to exit", I've tried the Becker on Flugpark, and yes, I was pretty successful with it, achieving 21 kills 0 deaths, however, I swapped planes in-between sorties.

8 of those kills were with the Halberstadt D.II, versus twin gun Sopwith Triplanes and Nieuports (11 & 17) with all sorts of weapon configurations & modifications.
With that in mind, I want to point out the likely cause of my random (which is what it was) success is because the regulars that were on weren't battle hardened veterans with years of FC/RoF under their belt.
Yes, they voiced surprise at getting detonated by the 20mm, and they voiced "S!" at getting downed by my single Spandau.
But during that session, at no point was there a case of anyone leaving the server permanently.

The Becker's ironsight when the gun is tilted upwards prints where it was aimed at, makes sense to me.
As for it in normal forward position, for which there is no sighting system, again that got pretty easy for me because I've already spent years getting decent with N.11 overwing Lewis, so when I saw a couple of 20mm Becker videos made by Smigol, where head camera placement was bottom left inside the cockpit, using exhaust overflow-pipe/whatchama-callit as a vertical stadium sight.. It took me a while to get used to it.
It's not a plane you just take up and hose everyone out of the air, pell-mell.

I also want to point out the video where Smigol and I were pretty tied with D.II vs Camel, why ain't that in here? That skews apparent results, doesn't it?
And I would also like to give honorable mention to cases where @No.10_SopwithMan and I resorted to sneaking up on Smigol, and absolutely hosed him out of the air with the combined firepower of two Camel's, and otherwise ganked on him, at least 10 times, if not more.
That's when Smigol called it quits for the night, that's to say it was night for me, he's one hour late, so it was definitely night for him = He had every right to log off.
Did Smigol act like a sore loser for that reason? No, he laughed about it via DM, and he was back on the server the next evening.

Limiting the weapon mod is one thing, outright demanding it's removal without so much as attempting dialogue = Another thing entirely.
And aren't ya'll forgetting that the regular Flugpark weekday missions are not organized historical events? They've gone on for years with nie-on unrestricted warfare, yet NOW we seem to get picky?
For all intents and purposes the cat is outta the bag, so because I'm fairly confident in the N.11 & Camel during 1v1's (which is what Smigol and I have been doing, making up the bulk of his footage), J5 should take steps against those or me too, right?

I needn't point out the thousands of views Smigol gets on his FC videos.
... Didn't everyone in the community prop up publicity for FC as a good thing? And now that someone put in an effort we can all reasonably bet that people of this day and age will watch with a measure of regularity, apparently this is how those same community members repay said effort?..

Edited November 3, 2023 by Red_Von_Hammer

[Red_Von_Hammer]

Also want to say quickly.
Goes without saying I'm fond of this community and it's members, as I believe everyone here are at their core  

But that doesn't mean I don't get to take a stance.
Of course, as usual, I peppered my previous post with "allegedly, purportedly" and "seemingly", and all that lawyer prattle.
Before anyone gets any ideas about that: I do so for very good reason, because I know with certainty everyone here are intelligent human beings.
If by any off-chance they haven't picked up on what I mean by that, here's the quick run-down:
I'm not so petty to believe, for instance, that this is how you actually repay Smigol's efforts at popularizing the game, or that you're flippant/selective in only now "taking notice" of singular events, despite Alb D.II having been out for a while already, etc.

I am pointing out however, that it still seems, appears or is purported that way, despite best & honorable intentions.

It is out of that same fondness we all share, that I can 100% corroborate what Sizzlorr said.
He only just barely and recently started receiving some queue's and feedback on the 20mm, he was only just led onto it.
Again, I can vouch for it.
I suggested he not make a move until he had solid and legitimate reasons.

I honestly believe patience could have at least been exerted in the form of starting peaceful dialogue over on the Flugpark discord general chat.
If we take a look back in time, say.. 6 hrs (which is how old this topic is), no mention regarding this topic has been made in that chat, where pilots active on the server could actually chime in and contribute.

I've picked up on queue's through many hours on Discord, am not unaware things have been going on between some parties here, behind the scenes.
If bringing it public is an extension of that, I'm not a fan, and if FC is to have any future, we need dialogue.
Quick example of dialogue comes to mind, I had a complete misunderstanding with something @US103_Baer posted in another thread.
He instantly pointed out what I got wrong, I instantly said sorry (btw, are you happy with my apology, Baer?).

What say dialogue is given a try on this issue, and we'll see how it goes?  

Edited November 3, 2023 by Red_Von_Hammer

[LukeFF]

I will see if I can get an answer about the 20 mm ammo. 
 

[US103_Baer]

2 hours ago, Red_Von_Hammer said:

Quick example of dialogue comes to mind, I had a complete misunderstanding with something @US103_Baer posted in another thread.
He instantly pointed out what I got wrong, I instantly said sorry (btw, are you happy with my apology, Baer?).
 

Cheers dude.  All good.  Pleasantly surprised and should've let you know at the time. 

 

On the D.II becker, of course its frontline fiction. But if it has to stay for entertainment reasons, my vote would be a limit to 1 or 2 in the Dogfight Airstart only.  That way it disappears when a more serious session occurs.

[Red_Von_Hammer]

2 hours ago, US103_Baer said:

Cheers dude.  All good.  Pleasantly surprised and should've let you know at the time. 

 

On the D.II becker, of course its frontline fiction. But if it has to stay for entertainment reasons, my vote would be a limit to 1 or 2 in the Dogfight Airstart only.  That way it disappears when a more serious session occurs.

You're the class act for reacting with grace.

Agreed about the Becker, and good suggestion.

@US103_RummellJust because "toob" doesn't mean the D.II 20mm is an easy affair, Smigol isn't slacking off.
He's got 26hrs on the server, he has got gotten about as much as he has taken, and tried just about every plane there is.
Whereas you, the first to publicly suggest the 20mm be removed from the server, barely even have 1/4 of Smigol's combat hours this entire tour, you've been busy with a killstreak (and I'm not trying to take away from that), and died all of 2 times this tour.
So then, since I know for a fact Smigol brought the 20mm D.II online only recently, after this tour started, and since you're pretty good at survival, surely you'll be able to recall: Were any of your deaths this tour to a 20mm Albie?
May I ask, have you flown it online?

Where are Smigol's many victims? Now's the time to speak, if I were purportedly trounced on the regular by unhistorical weapons systems, and I was given a queue like this, I would have taken the opportunity immediately.
It's been half a day and yet... silence.

I'm one of the "victims", and I can't stress enough about factors at play there.
Contrary to what it looks like, I wasn't blown to smithereens every time I flew out on a sortie, my K/D ratio remains the same and I always had the same fair opportunity & chance of survival vs Smigol as I have vs Sopwithman, Manfreddy, Wolff, Ivo, and a lot of other good close quarters fighter pilots on the server.
Can't very well ban the planes they fly, can we?

Being fairly certain Smigol was getting footage, I often flew planes I'm not currently good with, or planes that in my experience might not be up to snuff with historical performance.
In some instances I was taken by surprise, or when I made mistakes such as in the video Rummell linked to, when Smigol caked my cockpit for that first kill, after I got in a good deal of damage on him.
In some cases we did gentleman merge, no firing before merge.
Experienced players in a plane they're good with in post-merge situation would almost outright forever-sleep someone for that opportunity, fish in a pond, it gives the much lightened 20mm D.II a post-merge opportunity that it usually isn't accorded without risk.

"What about Dalai_Lama_Cze then?" Dalai Lama has 2 more hours than the OP, he made a mistake pitting his SE5 in a knife fight with a German fighter.
I suspect the reason why he's not here (yet) is because he knows that.

When you put in time, which Smigol undeniably does, of course you get good.
Could he have grabbed another plane? Sure, but you don't get and keep 70k+ subs on Youtube doing videos on combat flight titles by exclusively appropriating a flying style that entails cheesing & kiting from altitude.
What's fun about watching Youtube vids where the content creator gets constantly Bonnie & Clyded by a Camel or receives forever-sleep by a thousand cuts from kiting SE5/Spad above, every time?
And if he grabs a Spad D12 vs someone currently keeping a 12 killstreak? No-one's going to watch a 40 minute joust for position, people these days are hard pressed to watch videos lasting longer than namely 10 minutes, and it better be action packed.

IMO nothing illegal with lobbying, but chances are this issue has been unknowingly created because of placebo effect, or out of context.

If people are this adamant about it I'm sure it can be worked out.
I try to fly mixed, though lately have been Entente oriented, but flying both teams I don't deny there have been instances of good plane/pilot combo's putting my patience to the test.
As with everything in life, it's still a case of give and take, it's been indicated that Entente will have to give up something equally good for equally good pilots.
Best be sure the cost of taking something that only 1 pilot is confirmed to regularly use (to further FC popularity), is worth taking something of equal lethality from 10 equally skilled pilots on the other team.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Red_Von_Hammer

[No.23_Starling]

Re-read my first post. I point out the history then suggest it might be restricted in servers where historical accuracy is a priority. As for the frustration factor, back in the RoF days I always took the Becker and shredded many Sopwith Pups which would sometimes lead to victims raging out. I had fun at the time but with hindsight it was a bit toxic and hypocritical having an interest in historical accuracy. I was on comms with one of Smigol’s kills from that video and I can tell you they weren’t impressed.
 

If J5 want to include it in their ‘realistic’ server for ‘fun’ reasons that’s their call, but it’s as unrealistic as having SPAD XIIIs in 1916. I’ll also bookmark this thread whenever someone else says a Canon SPAD that fires 2 rounds a minute and can’t be tilted upwards would be OP and shouldnt be in game, despite the boring old facts.

[No.23_Triggers]

15 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Funny thing is the one guy that is monologuing about ww1 planes with cannons in this forum is the most offended when there are planes with cannons in multiplayer. I guess it is the wrong plane that got it though. 

Well, the main difference being that the Spad XII was actually designed specifically to be armed with and see service with a 37mm cannon...whereas the Alb D.II with a Becker strapped looney tunes style to the upper wing wasn't. 

Personally, my only issue with the Becker for the Alb D.II (apart from the historical inaccuracy of it being available to any old Albatros) is that it apparently has absolutely zero negative FM / handling characteristics whatsoever versus the default armament (I noticed no difference anyway), which just seems implausible really. After all, that's a big ol' gun strapped pretty haphazardly to the top wing in a not exactly aerodynamically efficient way, and you'd think that would have a marked impact on the Alb's performance. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by No.23_Triggers

[No.23_Starling]

6 minutes ago, No.23_Triggers said:

Well, the main difference being that the Spad XII was actually designed specifically to be armed with and see service with a 37mm cannon...whereas the Alb D.II with a Becker strapped looney tunes style to the upper wing wasn't. 

Personally, my only issue with the Becker for the Alb D.II (apart from the historical inaccuracy of it being available to any old Albatros) is that it apparently has absolutely zero negative FM / handling characteristics whatsoever versus the default armament (I noticed no difference anyway), which just seems implausible really. After all, that's a big ol' gun strapped pretty haphazardly to the top wing in a not exactly aerodynamically efficient way, and you'd think that would have a marked impact on the Alb's performance. 

Exactly. I think Sizzlor’s real problem is with me personally, which might be better to take to PM or a Discord call. He’s totally ignored my point which is historical accuracy and the use of a rapid fire autocannon with no performance impact. 

 

The SPAD XII had various design adaptations to deal with the recoil and vibrations of the weapon which had a very slow rate of fire, and saw changes to the late model including a smooth bore to help reduce the shaking effect. I.E. it was a true production aircraft. The DII Auto Canon is total fiction.

[J99_Sizzlorr]

32 minutes ago, No.23_Triggers said:

Well, the main difference being that the Spad XII was actually designed specifically to be armed with and see service with a 37mm cannon...whereas the Alb D.II with a Becker strapped looney tunes style to the upper wing wasn't. 

Personally, my only issue with the Becker for the Alb D.II (apart from the historical inaccuracy of it being available to any old Albatros) is that it apparently has absolutely zero negative FM / handling characteristics whatsoever versus the default armament (I noticed no difference anyway), which just seems implausible really. After all, that's a big ol' gun strapped pretty haphazardly to the top wing in a not exactly aerodynamically efficient way, and you'd think that would have a marked impact on the Alb's performance. 

You bark up the wrong tree mate, it works like this: To lock one weapon mod you have to lock all in the server setting and then allow the weapon mods you want available in the mission editor. If server owners don't lock weapon mods in their settings mission designers can not lock or limit any wepon mods.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

18 hours ago, US103_Rummell said:

I look forward to seeing you add the Me-262 to Flugpark. After all that German engineering helped them win the war. 

 

 Get in line...Stuka still hasn't appeared.

17 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

No I can not it is a server setting and I am not in control of that. I don't have the Becker cannon as default loadout, that is all I can do. But how many of 6 Albatros D.II pilots do you think will take off with the gun? 

 

After what I saw in the video I'll be practicing 24/7

[Red_Von_Hammer]

5 hours ago, US103_Rummell said:

Re-read my first post. I point out the history then suggest it might be restricted in servers where historical accuracy is a priority. As for the frustration factor, back in the RoF days I always took the Becker and shredded many Sopwith Pups which would sometimes lead to victims raging out. I had fun at the time but with hindsight it was a bit toxic and hypocritical having an interest in historical accuracy. I was on comms with one of Smigol’s kills from that video and I can tell you they weren’t impressed.
 

If J5 want to include it in their ‘realistic’ server for ‘fun’ reasons that’s their call, but it’s as unrealistic as having SPAD XIIIs in 1916. I’ll also bookmark this thread whenever someone else says a Canon SPAD that fires 2 rounds a minute and can’t be tilted upwards would be OP and shouldnt be in game, despite the boring old facts.

@US103_Rummell You said J5 might want to lock it on historical maps, if Flugpark is indeed trying to be accurate, not to be lobbed in with "authentic".
If it is the former then i 100% agree that historical armaments should be viewed under a new... Lens (I couldn't resist lol).
But it's been my impression so far that at least the 1918 Bapaume and Lens missions have been running on the theme of a "authentic" and "unrestricted warfare" kind of way, or am I mistaken, @J5_Baeumer?

I want to say it's very transparent and open of you to admit guilt in 20mm warcrimes, not to underplay recent events as a joke, I blew up  14-15 planes too, at least half of which were players.
But seeing as you weren't downed by the 20mm this time around, you're bringing it up for someone, would that be a fair guess?
The "accused" already left a post here, confirming indeed that the 20mm can be OP in the right hands, ok cool, so now we have dialogue from the "accused", as it were.
Can we expect the one confirmed offended victim identify themselves too? Do they any have ideas/suggestions or point of view?
I ask because getting an accurate picture of how many fell to 20mm Albatross D.II, and how often, and whether they all have an opinion, would be right and proper, as it should pertain to theme of banning anything.

 

3 hours ago, US103_Rummell said:

Exactly. I think Sizzlor’s real problem is with me personally, which might be better to take to PM or a Discord call. He’s totally ignored my point which is historical accuracy and the use of a rapid fire autocannon with no performance impact. 

 

The SPAD XII had various design adaptations to deal with the recoil and vibrations of the weapon which had a very slow rate of fire, and saw changes to the late model including a smooth bore to help reduce the shaking effect. I.E. it was a true production aircraft. The DII Auto Canon is total fiction.

Personal issues is where I try to draw the line, and as for me, if you accept it: I am genuinely sorry if I've come across as a hole, lacking respect toward you in any way, shape or form.
If you and Sizzlorr have issues, I too would suggest private dialogue to hash it out.
And on that note I want to say when it pertains to @J99_Sizzlorr I once got a bit frustrated with what I experienced as unbalanced air combat with the old Verdun 1917 planeset.

I left feedback on Flugpark live-chat, after which Sizzlorr and I have a very respectful, and above all, honest dialogue, about things Flugpark related (as well as shooting the sh*t on OG RB3D campfire stories).
And to follow-up on that specific incident, knock on table, and to @J99_Sizzlorr and, lest I forget, @J5_Baeumer's immense credit, not 24hrs after the release of planes needed for a more rounded planeset, the server was running it.

As for the multi-process Sizzlorr talked about, when it goes for banning weapons mods, this was actually brought up in a chat between Sizzlorr and I the evening before this thread was made.
Feedback on the 20mm had just started to trickle in so that's what we talked about.
At that point, I figured I might as well tell Smigol that I'd think about toning back the D.II 20mm use.
And I worded it that way because at the time, the scattered feedback didn't seem significant enough to warrant worry but worthy a thought at least.

Fast forward a few hours, still nothing on Flugpark discord, which one would normally think is where this would have been brought up first.
Then this thread pops up > Now it's a worry  
Still, why no attempts were made to give feedback on Flugpark Discord general chat first? It just seems like a bit of lack of trust in established procedures.
May I humbly ask what/who warranted it?

The Albatross D.II was never historically fielded with the Becker, as everyone here can agree, but the Becker is certainly known to have been used in air to air, historically.
If not on an Alb D.II, what about recurring incidents of someone taking out the CL.II 20mm? Of course it stinks when that happens as I'm on a roll with the Camel.
Or Le-Prieur rockets? To illustrate an instance I dodged such a barrage by a hair:

Yeah.. Can confirm I've got gotten by those more than once, and they hurt
 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Red_Von_Hammer

[No.23_Starling]

9 minutes ago, J5_Klugermann said:

 

 Get in line...Stuka still hasn't appeared.

 

After what I saw in the video I'll be practicing 24/7

I’m making a French SPAD skin

[J99_Sizzlorr]

Maybe 1C can give us one Albatros D.II without the Becker option. We had an early and late version in RoF. This would makes things so much easier for me...

[LukeFF]

Upon further review, the current 20 mm ammo round is the incorrect one. It's on the to-fix list, as the correct ammo type is there in the files (apparently it was there in ROF) but it wasn't set up correctly for FC.

[No.23_Starling]

57 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Upon further review, the current 20 mm ammo round is the incorrect one. It's on the to-fix list, as the correct ammo type is there in the files (apparently it was there in ROF) but it wasn't set up correctly for FC.

I’m not used to raising issues and seeing them acknowledged so quickly! Thanks Luke

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[No.23_Triggers]

23 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

You bark up the wrong tree mate, it works like this: To lock one weapon mod you have to lock all in the server setting and then allow the weapon mods you want available in the mission editor. If server owners don't lock weapon mods in their settings mission designers can not lock or limit any wepon mods.

er, I didn't mention anything about locking any weapon mods on servers ?

[J99_Sizzlorr]

32 minutes ago, No.23_Triggers said:

er, I didn't mention anything about locking any weapon mods on servers ?

Not directly, I just read between your lines...?

[No.23_Triggers]

10 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Not directly, I just read between your lines...?

If you say so ?

[J99_Sizzlorr]

9 minutes ago, No.23_Triggers said:

If you say so ?

So you don't want to lock or limit the Becker gun? Elaborate...

[No.23_Triggers]

2 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

So you don't want to lock or limit the Becker gun? Elaborate...

I'm not particularly bothered either way to be perfectly honest with you - but, for the sake of argument, there are a couple issues I objectively see that may warrant some kind of server limitation if you were so inclined and/or saw any of the following as a cause for concern, those being: 

1) Historically speaking, there shouldn't be any Alb D.IIs flying around with Beckers strapped to them as it was either an extremely uncommon or completely nonexistent mod on the front. The same could be said for SPAD VIIs with overwing guns, 6-gun dolphins, etc. In regards to flugpark specifically, total historical authenticity hasn't been the MO for quite some time as far as I can see, so take that as you will. 

2) The one glaring issue with the D.II + Becker in my eyes (as I mentioned before) is that it seems to have zero FM 'penalty' despite having a pretty huge and decidedly un-aerodynamic gun strapped pretty carelessly to the top wing. Speaking from a balance perspective (if you really want to open that old can of worms), that leaves a big problem in that the D.II can fly just as well with the "one-hitter-quitter" gun as it can with twin spandaus, meaning that D.II pilots need simply land one shot and it's lights out for whoever they're up against. That's the kind of thing that undoubtedly will lead to growing frustrations / complaints as people feel like they're being beaten by the gun, not the pilot.

I feel it's worth adding that If the FM was impacted more by the addition of the Becker (aka less manoeuvrability, speed, etc), I imagine that would do something to mitigate the sense of feeling "Cheated" by getting 1-shot out the sky by a big ol' HE 20mm round, as it would be 'easier' to beat the less manoeuvrable, better-armed "Cannon Alb" in a dogfight. 

Again, it doesn't overly bother me if Albs are flying around with cannons strapped to them...but it very well may bother others. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by No.23_Triggers

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

26 minutes ago, No.23_Triggers said:

Again, it doesn't overly bother me if Albs are flying around with cannons strapped to them...but it very well may bother others. 

 

[No.23_TaxDollarsAtWork]

On 11/2/2023 at 3:08 PM, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Well then have some fun with it and precive it like a test run for the Spad XII...

Can we get P-39s on the server until the SPAD 12 gets added, pretty please!