New Pico Neo4 standalone device: Pancake lenses, 2160x2160 per eye and 429€.

[chiliwili69]

Well, I like to see more standalone devices like this,  which like Quest2 , will give an option to play PCVR games  as well:

 

- Pancake lenses

- Resolution like G2

- Modes of 72Hz and 90Hz. 

- weighs only 295 grams at the front

- wifi6 and future PCVR dongle for direct connection to PC

- Price 429€, released 18th-October in EU

 

For sure I will try this one. I need to know by my own if it will replace my current Index.

 

 

[dburne]

If I were going for that style of headset I would just get a Quest 2. Much more mature product.  Thankfully I am not , at least currently.

Is this still just for Europe?

Edited September 24, 2022 by dburne

[chiliwili69]

5 hours ago, dburne said:

If I were going for that style of headset I would just get a Quest 2

 

Well, I see 4 advantages over the Quest2:

 

- a bit better resolution (1832x1920 Qest2 vs. 2160x2160 Pico Neo4)

- pancake lenses (they say it provide a god edge to edge clarity)

- no front heavy (I had the Quest1 and was really heavy at front because battery, the Pico neo 4 has battery at the back)

- being far from all Meta world

 

They launch in October in Europe, Korea and Japan but now news about US launch, but I am sure they will do afterwards. (It can be also a good argument to visit Spain  ? )

 

More stuff about Pico Neo4 here: (this MRTV guy is always on the hype, take their impressions with a grain of salt. In his previous analysis of G2 he was not affected by the lack of edge-to-edge clarity, what it was something very noticeable for me. So VR is very dependent of the individual)

 

 

Guys, the pre-order is open in this european shop. They also ship to Latin America and US.

 

https://xrshop.store/en/products/pico-4-all-in-one-vr-headset-gafas-de-realidad-virtual?utm_campaign=rov_pico4&utm_medium=banner&utm_source=web

 

I have just ordered the 128Gb model, shipping in 15-20 days!

 

Even if it has not yet the Wifi dongle for PCVR, I just want to check the edge-to-edge clarity, the FOV and the confort. Just to know if it can be a future candidate to replace my three year old Index.

[chiliwili69]

More about cable link of a tester...

 

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

He confirms that the headset can stream PCVR via usb-c 3.2 cable just fine. He installed the Pico software on the PC, the rest was basically plug and play.

[chiliwili69]

7 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

He confirms that the headset can stream PCVR via usb-c 3.2 cable just fine

 

So, it will work as the current Oculus Link USB cable with the Quest 2?  (I have never used a USB cable link to play VR, so it is a new territory) (well I in fact I bought in the past the USB cable for the Quest 1 but never used it with PC based games).

 

I just want to check myself how good is the GPU compression --> transmission --> XR2 decompression and all the latency in the tracking 

 

Let´s see if the final consumer devices work with the USB cable.

[dburne]

Don't forget you have your Quest3 with yet more compression and MR coming as well.

Does this signify the beginning of the race to the bottom with the others jumping on board now?

 

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by dburne

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I doubt "a race to the bottom". You shouldn't be so pessimistic, tech is still evolving rapidly. I've tested the late VD and Oculus Link and compression is barely visible or not at all.

 

So, the takeaway from this is that compression is a technology being worked on, one with quarterly improvements it seems.

 

Other forms of compression, for example the Varjo Aero's and Vive Pro 2's DS compression, are also not visible. We're going to see the results on the Pico 4 Neo using the next iteration of VD that's about to hit shores very very soon. The VR world remains interesting

Edited September 30, 2022 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[dburne]

 

[firdimigdi]

That actually looks very good for the price. Very cool passthrough mode as well and impressive tracking. Generally from reviews I've seen, and ignoring the overenthusiasm of some, this seems to fit in the value-for-money category easily.

 

I wonder how it fairs with streaming our most used less optimized, CPU-bound titles.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

On 9/29/2022 at 9:47 AM, chiliwili69 said:

 

So, it will work as the current Oculus Link USB cable with the Quest 2?  (I have never used a USB cable link to play VR, so it is a new territory) (well I in fact I bought in the past the USB cable for the Quest 1 but never used it with PC based games).

 

I just want to check myself how good is the GPU compression --> transmission --> XR2 decompression and all the latency in the tracking 

 

Let´s see if the final consumer devices work with the USB cable.

Almost. It'll work better. Supposedly there's no compression visible. 

 

We'll have to see for ourselves. We got a new contender for the throne of VR on our hands - for a price nobody has ever expected.

 

But I'm certain we'll find some caveats. It can't all be sunshine, and we know how mrtv overplays enthusiasm.

 

What gives me to think is that the voices among the YTs are commonly positive in this regard.

 

I'll have it here in two weeks, it'll get a critical review as usual. I didn't give the Aero a free pass with its issues (and the price) either.

[chiliwili69]

Some test of the FOV using ROVtest

 

 

These are great news specially for the vertical FOV, which it seems it is better than Index!  (Index is very good at vertical FOV)

 

Source video (in german, not clue about he said):

 

As far as I know the connection methods for Quest2 are two: using third party app Virtual Desktop or using the Air link software from Oculus.

 

In the Pico Neo 4 we have the Streaming Assistant, which work either Wifi 5GHz or USB 3.0 cable:

 

And then adjust quality (compression ratio) , frequency (it has 72Hz mode!!, this is good!) and ASW

 

 

The source video:

 

[BOO]

£379 in the U.K.  could see me change my Luddite ways……. 
 

[dburne]

4 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

Some test of the FOV using ROVtest

 

 

These are great news specially for the vertical FOV, which it seems it is better than Index!  (Index is very good at vertical FOV)

 

Source video (in german, not clue about he said)

As far as I know the connection methods for Quest2 are two: using third party app Virtual Desktop or using the Air link software from Oculus.

 

 

 

 

 

Incorrect. Quest 2 can connect via Link cable as well same as it was with Quest 1. So you have Virtual Desktop and Airlink for wireless on Quest 2 and Oculus Link for wired on Quest 2. 

Also of note Pico 4 FOV is listed as 115 degrees however that is diagonal, not horizontal. 

Still no word on whether Pico plans to expand to NA market or not, sounding like maybe not. Seems that is a pretty big deal.

Edited October 5, 2022 by dburne

[simfan2015]

Does anyone know (have seen) how IL-2 GB and/or DCS would look like with this PICO 4 ?

What about the FOV, resolution and clarity vs a.o. the HP Reverb G2, Valve Index ?

Can we even play flight sims with the new PICO 4 ... using Virtual Desktop software, OpenXR or what ... ?

Will a simple USB-C cable be appropriate to connect (since it has no DP connection) or only Wifi 5GHz ?

So much is not yet clear to me.

Thank you all.

[chiliwili69]

2 hours ago, dburne said:

So you have Virtual Desktop and Airlink for wireless on Quest 2 and Oculus Link for wired on Quest 2. 

 

Ok thanks, So the Virtual Desktop is only needed for the wireless, right?

 

So, regarding IL-2 VR , which is a seated experience, the use of a wired way will not bother me (I always used wired headsets).

So for the Quest2, does the Oculus Link (wired) provide a better experience than the wireless (either VD or AirLink)?

2 hours ago, dburne said:

Also of note Pico 4 FOV is listed as 115 degrees however that is diagonal, not horizontal.

 

The specs of Pico Neo say 105 (and they refer to Diagonal), but the table above was the measurements of FOV of just that guy.

[dburne]

50 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Ok thanks, So the Virtual Desktop is only needed for the wireless, right?

 

 

 

Yes - Either or - Virtual Desktop or Airlink, both are wireless. Airlink is Oculus service.

[chiliwili69]

1 hour ago, simfan2015 said:

Does anyone know (have seen) how IL-2 GB and/or DCS would look like with this PICO 4 ?

So far nothing on the web right now. The device will start to ship on the 18th-October, so I hope to know more then.

1 hour ago, simfan2015 said:

What about the FOV, resolution and clarity vs a.o. the HP Reverb G2, Valve Index ?

The FOVs table is above.

The resolutions table is this:

 

People claims that edge-to-edge clarity of pancake lenses is better than other fresnel. But this is something very personal.

1 hour ago, simfan2015 said:

Can we even play flight sims with the new PICO 4 ... using Virtual Desktop software, OpenXR or what ... ?

 

According to the video above (minute 9:00) you only need the "Streaming Assistant". This app is installed on the device and you need to install it as well on the PC. Then choose wifi or USB connection. And from there SteamVR will work.

 

So in theory Virtual Desktop is not needed.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Ok thanks, So the Virtual Desktop is only needed for the wireless, right?

 

So, regarding IL-2 VR , which is a seated experience, the use of a wired way will not bother me (I always used wired headsets).

So for the Quest2, does the Oculus Link (wired) provide a better experience than the wireless (either VD or AirLink)?

 

 

Hard to say - technically the wired connection should be a little better, but still it is using compression/decompression on the fly. If I had a choice I would use wired to simply get around the battery requirement as I tend to run multiple hours a day. Lot of folks praise the Oculus Airlink though as well. Keep in mind Oculus is pretty far ahead of others in at least the technology at this point.

Edited October 5, 2022 by dburne

[chiliwili69]

1 hour ago, simfan2015 said:

Will a simple USB-C cable be appropriate to connect (since it has no DP connection) or only Wifi 5GHz ?

 

In principle both ways should work (wired USB-C 3.0) or Wifi 5GHz.  I suposse the cable will allow better bandwith.

 

What I still don´t understand is why Pico is going to release in 2023 a wireless dongle. Perhaps for better connection quality?

[simfan2015]

What I still don't understand is if a 'special' USB-c cable is needed

\like the one from the quest 2 -or- if any usb-c to usb-c, even an usb-a to usb-c cable (usb 3.0)

will do just as well.

For a 'special?' 3 m Quest 2 usb-c cable IT shops ask up to 100 USD/EUR ! 

 

Also, what is the advantage of virtual-desktop over the Pico-4 application ??? 

More functionality or better IQ, ... ??? 

 

Thanks all !

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

5 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

So far nothing on the web right now. The device will start to ship on the 18th-October, so I hope to know more then.

The FOVs table is above.

The resolutions table is this:

 

People claims that edge-to-edge clarity of pancake lenses is better than other fresnel. But this is something very personal.

 

According to the video above (minute 9:00) you only need the "Streaming Assistant". This app is installed on the device and you need to install it as well on the PC. Then choose wifi or USB connection. And from there SteamVR will work.

 

So in theory Virtual Desktop is not needed.

Thanks for all the summaries on information found @chiliwili69 !!

 

9M seems to be the ideal sweetspot still. Even 12M of the Vive Pro 2 was too much to run at 90Hz without using upscaling or halving framerate from 120 to 60Hz. At the same time, these high resolutions saw compression (Vive Pro 2, Varjo Aero, Pimax 8KX). And the Pico Neo 4 allegedly needs less oversampling to undo distortion.

 

I never believed I'd say this, as I considered Pico as cheap copycats before, but Pico might be able to provide a better actual picture than all the previous headsets in existence so far. Knock on wood three times. That all depends on if compression kills that hope or if the lenses make it suffer from distortion. 2 weeks to wait.

[BOO]

Some silly questions if I may. I know a lot is still unknown about the Pico but that pales into insignificance in comparison to what I don’t know about VR.  
 

The sub £400 price and built in tracking  does make this something of a try without too much cry proposition but….

 

Will my 5600x/3080 run IL2 in VR well with decent settings ( broad I know but if high standard settings are my min 2d line in the sand will VR fall much below this?). 
 

will the lower refresh setting in the pico help avoid VR nasties?

 

can I wear glasses ( a new cpu is one thing but I draw the line a corrective laser surgery) 

 

is there a way to power the thing without having to stop every 3 hours to recharge it? 

 

Thanks o wise ones. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by BOO

[simfan2015]

I pre-ordered the Neo 4 256 GB version over here in Europe and will get it on October 18 (as promised to me by the shop).

Dunno whether I will not return it though, depends on what it can do in IL-2 (or not).

For 499 EURO (256 GB version) this might be a steal.

I have been on the fence for VR because of the "sweathy" neck-pain type reports I read about the HP Reverb G2 and similar PC VR headsets.

This not having fresnel lenses makes it enhanting (to me).

This being foremost a standalone VR headset means I can also donate it to any kid in the family if it does not perform in IL-2 GB, IL-2 CloD and DCS ?   

If I decide to keep it I will, of course, report my findings here regarding performance and look in IL-2 GB as well as IL-2 CloD VR.

Edited October 6, 2022 by simfan2015

[BOO]

@simfan2015my thinking is similar. If it don’t work for flying I’ll kill zombies with it then give it to my lad. 
 

im hovering still 
 

 

[dburne]

It will be interesting to hear from you guys on this one. Personally I just don't see it being much better than Reverb G2 but who knows.

[WIS-Redcoat]

You guys are crazy to think this will be the top simming headset.  My money is certainly better than quest 2 and debatable if it eclipses the G2 depending on what you value most.  I think the new meta crap headset has a much better chance to impress.

 

G2 is $399 dollars… thats a darn good headset at that price.

[firdimigdi]

37 minutes ago, WIS-Redcoat said:

You guys are crazy to think this will be the top simming headset.

 

Didn't notice anyone saying they think it will be the top simming headset. Most comments I see here is just people looking for a better alternative to the Q2 that doesn't break their budget and this seems to fit the bill. Plus it's the only currently available headset with pancake lenses that doesn't require a mortgage restructuring.

 

37 minutes ago, WIS-Redcoat said:

G2 is $399 dollars…

 

Not on this side of the pond.

[Bando]

1 hour ago, WIS-Redcoat said:

G2 is $399 dollars… thats a darn good headset at that price.

I purchased a G2 just about some 2 months ago. It was 650 euro's and although I did search  for better deals, 650 was the price I had to pay. 
(The Netherlands)

Edited October 7, 2022 by Bando

[simfan2015]

Indeed Bando. In Europe 399 USD (EUR) is a fairytale.

But regardless the price point I do not doubt that tge HP Reverb G2 is far better for flightsim gaming than a (mostly) Wireless headset in 2022.

But this may all change.

Fresnel lenses will become a thing of the past.

Pancake-type lenses (a.o.) being the future of VR headsets.

Maybe PC VR gaming will become even more "Quest x" gaming, even for Steam/OpenXR.

But not today.

If I could get a small HP G2 type headset (with DP cable connect) I would go for that, but does such a headet even exist today or the near future

 ... at any price ???? 

Edited October 7, 2022 by simfan2015

[dburne]

 

[simfan2015]

The take-away I get from all these (in fact) PRE-views is that the compression is a problem that is not present with a.o. the HP Reverb G2.

I can almost predict that in e.g. TC with quite some in-tank dark envirinments and of course at night in general this will be a true issue.

All those guys are carried away by the positive, being this seams to be a great stand-alone VR headset, but less so for us PC VR users !?

I am thinking of cancelling my PICO 4 pre-order ... unless people here know more about how it will look like in our sims (I have not yet seen a review of that).

 

[chiliwili69]

This is the max bitrate using the Pico "Streaming Assistant" with a USB-C cable:  101Mbps

 

The only codec available is H.265

 

They say that the quality is worse than the other devices using DisplayPort cable. It is noticeable in certain scenes were the compression is difficult (rain for example).

It has been a big mistake for not puting a proper DP cable. Nobody knows the reason. (cost?)

 

On the other hand, regarding rendered resolution, it will not be a very GPU demanding device since the default internal supersampling is non-existing (thank to pancake lenses)

 

So at 100%SS the rendered pixels are 2160x2160 !!, and then increasing to 150% the visual quality improves. That mean at a 3080 will be able to run the Pico Neo 4 pretty well.

 

 

so the number are:

 

All this info was gathered from a pre-analysis done by Oscar in an Spanish web (RealoVirtual). He is the programmer of the RoVTest tool.

He say that overall the Pico Neo 4 is better than the Quest 2. But Pico Neo 4 is not perfect.

Source video (spanish):

 

On 10/5/2022 at 10:38 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

And the Pico Neo 4 allegedly needs less oversampling to undo distortion

Exactly. In fact the device don´t need any extra internal supersampling at all, and this is good to not load GPU.

On 10/6/2022 at 9:24 AM, BOO said:

Will my 5600x/3080 run IL2 in VR well with decent settings

You have the same system than me. Your system will have not problems to run the Pico4. Even at 90Hz. But the 72Hz is also welcome.

On 10/6/2022 at 9:24 AM, BOO said:

is there a way to power the thing without having to stop every 3 hours to recharge it?

 

To have the maximun bandwidth the cable will give a better experience. I have not problem to use an USB cable for IL-2.

Edited October 7, 2022 by chiliwili69

[56RAF_phoenix56]

I would be a little wary of the software maturity of the Pico products.

I have had a Pico Neo 3 Link for several months as a backup option for my increasing flaky Reverb G2 (Mk1). My experience is that I could not get the DP Link (or WiFi, which was of less interest) to work with SteamVR at all. Pico support was fairly responsive (it was over summer holiday period) and sent me a new cable, though I was pretty sure it was a software problem.

I don't know whether it was because I'd previously used the G2, but no amount of reinstallation of Steam/SteamVR helped. In the end, only running Steam, SteamVR, PicoLink (on the PC) and il2GB as Admin would allow SteamVR and il2 to work with this headset. Running il2GB as Admin completely knackered my many controller assignments, as it's not designed for multiple users. Pico promise a version of PicoLink that doesn't require Admin, but gave me no date for it.

 

In summary on the Neo 3 Link: the hardware design is actually significantly better than the G2. They've really thought about cable strain relief, connector robustness, balance, comfort. The screen colour is a not as good, but I've not had the time to optimise the rendering.

 

But they need to sort out their software.

 

56RAF_phoenix56

Edited October 8, 2022 by 56RAF_phoenix56
typo, full name of headset

[BOO]

Thanks @chiliwili69  As usual then I’m left standing on the cliff edge. I cannot realistically spend any more on my pc and, as ever, there are annoying compromises.
 

Would something like a G2 be a better option overall for my set up if costs were taken out? 
 

I look to yourself @SCG_Fenris_Wolfand @dburne as the VR gurus so all and any input welcome

 

Thank you 
 

 

[dburne]

1 hour ago, BOO said:

Thanks @chiliwili69  As usual then I’m left standing on the cliff edge. I cannot realistically spend any more on my pc and, as ever, there are annoying compromises.
 

Would something like a G2 be a better option overall for my set up if costs were taken out? 
 

I look to yourself @SCG_Fenris_Wolfand @dburne as the VR gurus so all and any input welcome

 

Thank you 
 

 

 

Reverb G2 is a tried and true product and a pretty darn good one at that. Similarly so is Quest 2 now.

For a first VR headset I would be more inclined to go with one of these two. While Reverb G2 has the added complexity of needing WMR it is still not that difficult and I would say little less complexity than Quest 2.

[Youtch]

The only painpoint i cannot stand with the G2 is the ridiculously small sweet spot, hence the benefit maybe of the new type of lense.

[BOO]

2 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Reverb G2 is a tried and true product and a pretty darn good one at that. Similarly so is Quest 2 now.

For a first VR headset I would be more inclined to go with one of these two. While Reverb G2 has the added complexity of needing WMR it is still not that difficult and I would say little less complexity than Quest 2.

Thanks. I can get hold of a new G2 for £600 which is in my budget. My concern however is if my 5600x /3080 will run the game with appealing graphics. 
 

The pico still interests my though. Perhaps I can persuade  my lad he needs one ? 
 

 

[dburne]

5 minutes ago, BOO said:

Thanks. I can get hold of a new G2 for £600 which is in my budget. My concern however is if my 5600x /3080 will run the game with appealing graphics. 
 

The pico still interests my though. Perhaps I can persuade  my lad he needs one ? 
 

 

 

Yeah should run the G2 fine.

[Youtch]

I have the same specs, and G2 runs good with openxr and scaling at 75% and high settings.