Discovery Flight (Real Life)!!

[unlikely_spider]

On Thursday I'm taking a discovery flight in a Cessna 172 with an instructor to see if I'm able to pursue a private license. As this is a lifelong dream of mine, I'm excited!

 

However I do have a history of motion sickness, so I'm also a bit scared. They say that I can take Dramamine until I solo, so perhaps that will help early on. I also felt ill when I started VR but completely got over that over time, so I know that I'm able to adapt.

 

Does anyone have any tips on that subject? I'll let everyone know how it goes!

[ITAF_Airone1989]

Motion sickness should not be a problem as long as you can watch outside...

I really think you will enjoy your flight!! ?

[Charlo-VR]

Having some degree of control over the plane’s movement should help a lot to alleviate motion sickness, so discuss with your instructor your concerns and see if he or she agrees that you taking control of the yoke when safe to do so is encouraged. 
 

It also helps to look out to the horizon when you can.

[ZachariasX]

3 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

Does anyone have any tips on that subject? I'll let everyone know how it goes!

The best way to cure airsickness I find is the pilot giving you controls. Even if you just keep her flying straight ahead, being in contol and able to somewhat anticipate the aircrafts movements will help. Same as in a car. It takes a lot to get car sick while driving yourself, but as passenger, it‘s easy getting sick. If that happens, also there, just let the suffering one dive and (s)he‘ll be cured quickly. In dual control gliders, I find it bad practise not handing over controls at least every hour of flight. It is so easy making any passenger/copilot sick in a glider.

 

Other than that, I find it just a matter of practise to get used to the motion. Everyone has to deal with that, some more, some less. But it has no impact on your ability to pilot an aircraft. Mölders was a prominent example of airsickness and he adjusted (while taking it as excuse to fly the 109) and Bob Hoover as well. It is just important that you don‘t push it farther than when you start feeling it. That is also how Bob did it. There is no point in being miserable. (I guess that works better the younger you are, as anything.) Also, make sure that you drink enough (not alcohol, for the record). Roasting up there under the sun already dehydrated just gives you a bad time and makes you a danger to yourself and others. I would not take medication against air sickness when flying myself, as they tend to make you drowsy and sleeping at the controls kills.

 

If you start feeling it, don‘t see it as an issue. That would be the worst, as it incentivizes you to cross your own safe limits. It‘s just something that happens easier to some than others and give your system time to learn it and respect your limitations for having a good and safe time.

 

Just have the pilot return and land. Then go drink something, and by doing so you walked up and down the apron. Most likely, you‘ll be fine by the time you are back at the aircraft. Then go for another short hop. It souldn‘t be about how long you can fly at a time or how far you can go, but how much time at the controls you can get. With every flight, you increase your tolerance.

[busdriver]

I suggest a morning flight (typically the earlier, the better) to limit the amount of turbulence as the atmosphere warms as the day progresses. Or close to sundown.
 

Looking around outside the cockpit and getting to handle the yoke are good tips.

 

Take a sick sac with you just in case. I always had one (or six) with me. I got sick on my “dollar ride” in the T-37 when I began UPT. I had a German student that made me toss my cookies while flying around the radar pattern in the RF-4 six years later. 
 

Try not to focus on the possibility of getting sick, think about how much fun you’re going to have. If it happens, it happens.

[SCG_Tzigy]

Eat only apples before the flight. The only thing that tastes the same coming back up... ?

 

Some F-16 jock told me once...

 

It really works ...

[Bremspropeller]

8 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

Does anyone have any tips on that subject? I'll let everyone know how it goes!

 

I'm not one of the fortunates who aren't bothered by motion sickness, so I know exactly what you're dealing with. I'm not a "pills" guy, so I try to stay sickness-free in other ways - especially since the pills will always come with huge downsides. I'd personally stay away from them and try to schedule flight-lessons around times that aren't critical in terms of thermals. Just like busdriver said - mornings or evenings.

 

A couple of things (next to the other very valuable tips already given):

 

- make sure you're well rested and not tired

- make sure you've had a good meal, but don't take off "full"

- make sure you're not hot in the cockpit (dress in layers, so you can drop off a layer)

- make sure there's something to do to keep you occupied and not focus on becoming sick

- make sure you stay hydrated - take plenty of water

 

Chances are you'll get used to the motion and you won't bother much afterwards - especially if you observe your symptoms and your ways of pre-dealing with it.

A good indication for me is when I'm starting to yawn. That's when I know "uh oh, here it comes...". That's usually when I haven't obeserved one or more of my rules listed above.

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Bremspropeller

[busdriver]

@unlikely_spider can you share what airport you're flying from and the name of the FBO or flight school? That way we might watch on FlightAware

 

[unlikely_spider]

It's KGAI, Bravo Flight Training

 

Edit - going in the morning, like 8:30ish, to beat the heat

Edited July 19, 2022 by unlikely_spider

[KiwiMcG]

As mentioned before, stay hydrated, if you do feel a bit off, stay cool - open side window or turn cabin temp down.

 

Avoid spicy stuff the night before or any strong flavoured stuff on the day. 

 

If it's hot, except a few bumps from thermals over land, otherwise enjoy! 

[IckyATLAS]

I wish you to enjoy your flight and have an excellent 3D experience. The advantage of the Cessna you will fly in, it is a high wing airplane and normally you should enjoy looking down at the scenery unobstructed by a wing. I unfortunately I cannot give an advice as for what concerns motion sickness as I am part of those lucky ones, who have no motion sickness at all, in the air or in the sea (this is why I love boating in rough seas) or in the car or anywhere except space that I have not ("yet" ? ) experienced. 

 

Looking straight (but loosing part of downwards scenery unfortunately) and foresee the incoming motions of the plane as mentioned in the above posts, could be a way to rationalise the motion and have your sensory input synchronized with the plane motion.

 

Maybe the only way is to take the controls of the plane and fly it ?. In  that way you know what you are doing and maybe you will be much less prone to motion sickness.

 

If your instructor gives you the controls to fly it then my advice is no Dramamine pills. They combat the motion sickness but they may make you "sleepy" and less quick to react, it can blurr your vision, in short for me it is incompatible with flying as a pilot. You have an instructor to take care of you if you do not feel well. I have flown with passengers that had taken Dramamine and the side effects vary a lot and can be impairing sometimes (no idea however about the dose they took).

[Hoots]

Can't help with the motion sickness but I will say that you are in for a fantastic experience, there's nothing like it. Even if you feel poorly try and remember to look out the window and find something to look at, it's a whole new world up there

[Dagwoodyt]

Decades ago I did a "discovery" flight. Of ~8 people in the ground school at start I was the only one who took the written exam, let alone the flight check. Never had motion sickness in air or in VR. Good luck    ?

[unlikely_spider]

5 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

f your instructor gives you the controls to fly it then my advice is no Dramamine pills. They combat the motion sickness but they may make you "sleepy" and less quick to react, it can blurr your vision, in short for me it is incompatible with flying as a pilot. You have an instructor to take care of you if you do not feel well. I have flown with passengers that had taken Dramamine and the side effects vary a lot and can be impairing sometimes (no idea however about the dose they took).

Thanks for the notes. I really need to get over the hump of a first flight without getting sick, or else I'm afraid I won't want to do it again. I have non-Drowsy Dramamine (really less-Drowsy in actuality). And it's supposed to be hot tomorrow which won't help.

 

My intention is to wean myself off of it over a few flights, similar to what I did with VR.

[Bremspropeller]

Fingers crossed! Try to maintain a positive attitude and try to have the CFI let you do a lot of stuff.

[unlikely_spider]

3 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Fingers crossed! Try to maintain a positive attitude and try to have the CFI let you do a lot of stuff.

Maybe I'll just show a screenshot of my accumulated hours across the various flight sims and surely he'll just hand over the controls to me from the get go ??

[ZachariasX]

31 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

Maybe I'll just show a screenshot of my accumulated hours across the various flight sims and surely he'll just hand over the controls to me from the get go ??

If you tell him that you have such kind of experience, maybe he‘ll let you. In essence, there is little you can do wrong in a trimmed out Cessna. But if he lets you take the yoke, you might challenge yourself flying circles, ball centered, while maintaining level. Ask if you can do that. If that works, try 8‘s. I try to rent as many interesting aircraft as I can, then of course being on the right seat. Demonstrating coordinated flight like that puts the pilot usually at ease just letting me. (That even worked flying a Mustag…) If you are even then allowed press on from there, the smile will stay on your face for some time. Thing is, as soon as you focus on flying a specific program (that can be just flying straight and level), it is way less likely getting airsick.

 

In the Mustang, I was working her for a good half hour and that is hard physical labor, especially when cooking on an aluminum plate attached to the radiator. When the pilot then showed me some more „aeros“, this time what the plane really can give, I really had my share as well. I wasn‘t getting sick but I felt spent. It is where the yawn sets in, as Brems described. A good moment to return to the airport restaurant.

 

In all cases, look forward to having fun and a great experince. Other things may or may not happen, just deal with it if something arises and always let the pilot know. He is resposible for you. Your well being is part of his job.

[unlikely_spider]

Thanks @ZachariasX . Is it easy to see the ball from the right seat? I think in these Cessna's they usually don't have many instruments on the right?

Or is it more of a "keep the nose on the horizon" kind of thing?

 

Edit- here's the 172 I'll be in:

Edited July 20, 2022 by unlikely_spider

[ZachariasX]

13 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

Is it easy to see the ball from the right seat?

The plane needs little foot, but depending on how you work the ailerons. In cases where I look sideways at the instrument, I try to get the center position perspective when the plane sits on the ground. How much the ball moves is not that interesting, but if you keep it there where it was centered, you‘re good. You don‘t have to overcontrol it. Just in turn reversals while doing 8‘s it can become an issue. Slight turns don‘t really need footwork, but you need to hold the nose up. Maintaining altitude is more challenging I find. There, memorizing the proper plane attitude can teally help keeping you ahead of the curve.

 

For flight, it is advisable keeping your hands and feet off the controls. For the first maneuvers, best ask the pilot performing them and you put hand and feet on the controls. You sense his inputs then. Then try yourself. With all the sim practise, I‘m sure, you‘ll get the knack of it right away.

[Requiem]

On 7/18/2022 at 9:30 PM, unlikely_spider said:

On Thursday I'm taking a discovery flight in a Cessna 172 with an instructor to see if I'm able to pursue a private license. As this is a lifelong dream of mine, I'm excited!

 

However I do have a history of motion sickness, so I'm also a bit scared. They say that I can take Dramamine until I solo, so perhaps that will help early on. I also felt ill when I started VR but completely got over that over time, so I know that I'm able to adapt.

 

Does anyone have any tips on that subject? I'll let everyone know how it goes!

If you've done a lot of flying in sims just let the instructor know as it should give them confidence to let you use the controls. It depends on the instructor of course, but hopefully you'll be the one mostly flying the airplane (probably not the landing though).

 

Regarding airsickness I had one student get airsick on his first flight but over a couple more flights that problem went away on its own. It was funny afterwards when he was sick as I told him you either throw up inside your shirt or you're cleaning the cockpit because he didn't bring a baggie. He chose option #1. Although, it made for a fun landing with my head almost outside the side window in the Cessna 152 at the time.

 

Like others have said, fly early in the morning, don't overdo your breakfast, and look outside.

 

[JimTM]

FYI, at the top of the large display to the right of the ball, there is another "ball". Look for the small rectangle under the two triangles. I hope you enjoy your flight.

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by JimTM

[busdriver]

Here are the current conditions at Gaithersburg. Not a bad day at all.

 

 

If viewing on FlightAware look for N999AF. [edit] Be sure to use the "Flight Filters" pulldown menu in the upper right corner and modify the max airspeed (I use 150) and max altitude (I use 7000) to eliminate all the airline traffic into and out of BWI, DCA and IAD.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by busdriver

[unlikely_spider]

Wow, thanks @busdriver, I will save that image of my first flight!

 

It was amazing. I did take one non-Drowsy Dramamine and I didn't feel a thing! (though no steep turns or stalls yet though). I will be posting one sick bag for sale, mint condition.

 

The CFI gave me controls after takeoff and speaking to departure. I just flew over Sugarloaf mountain (an easily-identifiable landmark where we turned around in the image above) and the CFI gave me new headings to follow, then an altitude to decend to before contacting approach where he took controls again. When flying I did try to look at the ball and VVI to maintain straight flight and coordinated turns, but mostly just looked at the horizon.

 

This is great! Now I can sign up for lessons for real!!

Edited July 21, 2022 by unlikely_spider

[busdriver]

35 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

I will be posting one sick bag for sale, mint condition.

 

Somebody's got to say it, might as well be the Jurassic era fossil.

 

[unlikely_spider]

@busdriverYes I know, hah ?

I've got much more intensive maneuvers ahead of me for sure, and worse weather. As you said, it was quite smooth this morning, though hot. I was actually surprised at how much we weren't bouncing around. A little when we descended but overall a very nice flight.

 

I will still likely take at least a half-pill of Dramamine the next few times, if for nothing else than to calm the nerves. Then if it's anything like my VR experience then I can just stop after a while. Though instrument training is likely a whole other beast.

 

Edit - I just wanted this initial experience to go well so that I know I can actually do it. And it exceeded my expectations. I'm so happy right now

Edited July 21, 2022 by unlikely_spider

[busdriver]

5 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

And it exceeded my expectations. I'm so happy right now

 

Our mate @Requiemcan testify to this sentiment, I am really happy FOR you. Fly safe...check six...and twelve...and three...and nine...it never ends.

[JimTM]

1 hour ago, unlikely_spider said:

...

The CFI gave me controls after takeoff and speaking to departure. I just flew over Sugarloaf mountain (an easily-identifiable landmark where we turned around in the image above) and the CFI gave me new headings to follow, then an altitude to decend to before contacting approach where he took controls again. When flying I did try to look at the ball and VVI to maintain straight flight and coordinated turns, but mostly just looked at the horizon.

...

 

I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed your flight with no issues. How did it feel to you versus flying the simulator. Did you feel "at home" flying the real thing?

[unlikely_spider]

19 minutes ago, JimTM said:

 

I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed your flight with no issues. How did it feel to you versus flying the simulator. Did you feel "at home" flying the real thing?

I certainly had familiarity with the instruments. I wasn't expecting the instructor to give me a heading to turn to, but when he did I was ready and hit it immediately.

I watched some Youtube videos with tips, and one that I remembered was to keep a light touch on the yoke and not a death grip. The rudders were a little more firm than I expected, and maybe not as nice as my Crosswinds ?... taxiing took some getting used to and it was hard to hold the yellow line. But the actual act of flying (at least in these good conditions) was very natural.

 

[JimTM]

9 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

I certainly had familiarity with the instruments. I wasn't expecting the instructor to give me a heading to turn to, but when he did I was ready and hit it immediately.

I watched some Youtube videos with tips, and one that I remembered was to keep a light touch on the yoke and not a death grip. The rudders were a little more firm than I expected, and maybe not as nice as my Crosswinds ?... taxiing took some getting used to and it was hard to hold the yellow line. But the actual act of flying (at least in these good conditions) was very natural.

 

 

Very nice. Bring your Crosswinds along next time.  

[unlikely_spider]

So I did my second flight today. I have some notes that I think may be interesting to fellow simmers or other people who are scared of nausea like I am:

• Today I took half of a non-drowsy Dramamine, as opposed to the full pill I did yesterday. It was a couple hours later, so hotter and more turbulent. I was still perfectly fine!
• Today we did turns and slow flight plus a couple of stalls! For each portion the instructor demonstrated first and then I performed the maneuvers after. I want to note that due to a number of things I have a lot of experience in with various sims (the 172 itself, performing maneuvers at low-speed, and stalls of course) I did not feel any trepidation at all. I don't mean this as a boast - I want to illustrate that to my brain, this was all perfectly normal activity. The mushiness of the controls at low speed, the behavior after flaps are deployed, the actual procedures, etc... I was surprised that I had no anxiety during stall training or the other maneuvers. I do know that things will get more intense later (night flying, instrument flying, etc) however I thought it was fascinating how comfortable the environment was to me. Things like looking over my shoulder to see the flaps angle, looking for traffic, scanning the instruments - the complete environment all felt so very natural due to my time in VR. It's amazing how well VR replicates the look and feel of being in that little cockpit.  And this will also sound like a boast but the CFI said it normally takes two or three lessons to do what we successfully did today in one. My point is: I have always wondered if my many hours in simulated flight would actually translate to real flight, and at least in a couple of areas the answer so far is a resounding yes. Soon we will see how I perform during takeoff and landing!

 

This is all still so new and I am still processing it, with mild disbelief that I've gone this far. I want to encourage anyone who is on the fence to do a discovery flight at your local airpark. This is an absolutely amazing experience and I feel much younger since yesterday morning. And thanks everyone for their tips and sharing of experiences.

Edited July 22, 2022 by unlikely_spider

[ZachariasX]

34 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

instrument flying, etc

The sim training will do you much, much good, as you already know how to operate the fight deck. You clearly have more than „zero hours“ flight experience, even if you have not been at the controls of a real aircraft. This means you have your head clear to concentrate on monitoring your environment and sensing the aircraft. This way, you‘ll be always ahead of the curve mentally. That is way better than any Dramamine. I‘m sure you don‘t need that at all.

 

Congrats! 

[DD_Arthur]

Congratulations _spider!

Really enjoying reading this?

[Bremspropeller]

3 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

I do know that things will get more intense later (night flying

 

Night flying is mesmerizing, you'll love it!

 

I'm glad everything worked out well for you. Now the real fun can begin. Well, ecept for your wallet. That fella is going to take a real beating!

[Requiem]

Congratulations, super happy that you've enjoyed the experience!

 

 

[BMA_FlyingShark]

Congratulations.

Have a nice day.

 

[IckyATLAS]

Congratulation Spider. You probably entered fully in the rabbit hole. Getting out may become very very difficult.

 

On 7/22/2022 at 7:30 PM, unlikely_spider said:

My point is: I have always wondered if my many hours in simulated flight would actually translate to real flight, and at least in a couple of areas the answer so far is a resounding yes

If your simulator is good enough then you are right it helps. And if you fly with a certified simulator software with an instructor to supervise the flight then the hours you do count as real flight hours in your pilot book. I did in this way some IFR flight training, and it is less expensive than flying the real plane, mainly for twin engine ones.

 

Another element here that I found very helpful that can ring a bell to some of you: before flying I used to build and fly radio controlled models, starting small (at age six) I ended up with large ones up to 2.8mt wingspan. Then I flew the real ones. With bigger planes inertia starts to become a reality to consider and planes get less overpowered like the small planes. It was very helpful because I learned the physics of flight even if you do not sit in and the perspective is different. You feel it visually not with your body. The reaction of the plane to your controls and the way it behaves in air is very informative. You do aerobatics staying on the ground but you see all the difficulties and challenges to do a nice geometrical maneuver. Take a simple looping. In reality it is a difficult figure if you seek perfection. If you want to have it perfectly circular and totally flat and vertical. You need first to correctly decide the size of the circle beforehand, play on 3 axis plus throttle. Not only it has to be perfectly circular but your speed should be constant all along and the exit point exactly the entry one and perfectly tangent to the circle. If your circle is too large then you may not have enough power for a constant speed all along, so you need to have it the right size depending on your plane capability. Some visually very complex maneuvers are in reality much easier to do.

 

[unlikely_spider]

Update!

 

I had to take some time off due to contracting Covid and being sick for a bit. So this morning was my third flight. This time in a Cessna 150 due to the cost vs. the 172 that my first two lessons were in.

 

To my surprise, as we were taxiing to the hold short position, the instructor did not retake controls. So I performed the takeoff!

 

I don't think I'll forget this. It was not perfect - I strayed from center line a bit towards the end - but keeping straight(ish) while gradually pushing throttle all the way forward, looking at the needle move to the green arc, then pulling back - AMAZING. He then told me to pitch for ~70mph and hold course as he made the appropriate radio calls.

 

After performing some more maneuvers in the practice area (turns, power on and off stalls) was another training first for me. Airsickness.

We were practicing steep turns (45 degree bank) and by the third one my stomach was ready to turn back home. The thing is - when doing these steep turns, the nose wants to drop below the horizon. To keep that from happening I needed to pull back more on the stick, which immediately adds G's. One mistake was, after my third one, giving controls to the CFI so that he could demonstrate one.

 

Fortunately I lasted until after landing until retrieving the sick bag from my pack (though that left the CFI to perform all the post-landing checklist items - sorry dude!)

 

Now it's time to rest until I get the courage to do this again. Most things I've read say that students get over this after a few. My stomach doesn't seem to care at all about stalls or <30 degree bank turns, just the tight ones. Maybe I'll keep it at one or two next time.

 

Also I want to thank @busdriver for a bit of generosity in sending me some very nice supplies that have been put to use already.

Edited August 5, 2022 by unlikely_spider

[ZachariasX]

Congrats on your first take off! And don‘t think too much about not feeling well when the instructor does steep turn with you. As said before, you can make most people puke like that, but you‘ll build up tolerance. But as you did, just go land again when you start feeling unwell. I‘m sure, quiet soon you‘ll have much longer flights with no issue. One thing to keep in mind is that flying is physically more demanding than it appears. Especially when you are not that fit (like after a sickness as you mentioned) you have generally less tolerance. But good job!

[R3animate]

Congrats!! I trained in a 150, they're absolutely lovely to learn in. 

 

Don't ever get too discouraged, soon you'll find every flight just leaves you wanting more. Then you face the ultimate tests: costs, scheduling... and weather. 

[busdriver]

Well done laddie! And don't think of it as getting airsick, think of it as "yawning in technicolor!" [Yes, I crack myself up].