Mission Editor almost unusable these days

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

Has anyone else noticed how unstable the ME is after the last mini update? It's always been bad but the Alt+F9 trick always used to work pretty well but now, every session of late is like a catalogue of crashes back to desktop. No warning. Having to hit Ctrl+S every couple of mins.

It's fair to say that the crashes are now currently between 15-20 times per hour, sometimes more. I'm being carefully with scrolling or zooming in too quickly, keeping it map-free (Alt+F9) wherever and whenever I can, nothing makes a difference.

 

I've quite a hefty machine, card, with 64gb DDR4 RAM & have ample virtual memory set up on the SSD but nothing makes a difference.

It's very nearly almost unusable at the moment and certainly beyond enjoyable which is such a great shame.

[Gambit21]

I've never noticed a change.

It doesn't crash any more or less on me now than it ever has...and it crashes quite a bit. 

 

Please be careful about relying on CTRL-S. I've lost more than one mission due to corruption during the saving process.

Thus I keep a backup saved as well. I've been saved more than once by that backup.

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

20 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

I've never noticed a change.

It doesn't crash any more or less on me now than it ever has...and it crashes quite a bit. 

 

Please be careful about relying on CTRL-S. I've lost more than one mission due to corruption during the saving process.

Thus I keep a backup saved as well. I've been saved more than once by that backup.

Cheers Gambit. I'm not sure I'm brave enough to relax on the constant saving but I can see how this would corrupt data so I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Gambit21]

9 minutes ago, GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk said:

Cheers Gambit. I'm not sure I'm brave enough to relax on the constant saving but I can see how this would corrupt data so I'll keep that in mind.

 

 

I'm not saying don't save, I'm saying don't live and die by that. Save another SAFETY copy of your current mission somewhere else, as often as you can stand to do it. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Gambit21

[Jaegermeister]

I've been working in it for about 3 days straight now and only have a couple of crashes when I forget to close all the groups before I open another mission. I'm talking about probably 20 hours work time with no random crashes.

 

4K monitors are clearly an issue and create problems. Nothing has changed in the ME except the necessary drivers. My recommendation is to update all your drivers regularly, that's probably your main issue.

 

I also hit CTL S pretty frequently, just sayin'...  

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

11 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

I've been working in it for about 3 days straight now and only have a couple of crashes when I forget to close all the groups before I open another mission. I'm talking about probably 20 hours work time with no random crashes.

 

4K monitors are clearly an issue and create problems. Nothing has changed in the ME except the necessary drivers. My recommendation is to update all your drivers regularly, that's probably your main issue.

 

I also hit CTL S pretty frequently, just sayin'...  

Yes I'm on a 55" 4K TV but it's definitely got MUCH worse of late for me at least.

Edited January 25, 2022 by GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk

[Jaegermeister]

I use Driver Easy Pro... there is no way I could keep up with all the driver updates without specific software helping out 

[Sketch]

If you have a 4K monitor, the editor is going to crash much more often. I reset my monitor to 1080p and I don't crash.

 

However if I leave it at 4K, then I have the same issues that you have. This includes a crashing when I move very quickly or zoom in and out. Or switch between map mode and top-down view.

 

If they could fix the 4K resolution issue that would be awesome. @Jason_Williams

[AEthelraedUnraed]

8 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

My recommendation is to update all your drivers regularly, that's probably your main issue.

Actually, if stability is your main concern, it's best not to update your drivers. If a driver works, it'll keep working unless software (i.e. the ME) or system (other drivers etc.) updates introduce an incompatibility or rarely until some random bitflip screws up the driver itself. If you update your drivers it may introduce some new bugs or incompatibilities however.

 

Updating your drivers *is* advisable if you're interested in speed (or occasionally security), or if your system is currently not working properly (as in the OP's case). If you've got a pre-made computer and are interested in getting the latest drivers, it might be worth it to take a look at the manufacturer's website; pretty much all major manufacturers offer free software solutions that automatically keep your drivers up-to-date. HP's got its Support Assistant, Lenovo's got Vantage, Dell's got SupportAssist.

 

That said, I agree with those above in that I haven't noticed any decreased stability. My ME crashes often when loading a mission, but besides that perhaps once every hour on average. Regarding 4k screens, I'm not using one myself so I haven't tested it, but @jollyjack claims to have found a solution that solves the crashes on his system:

[IckyATLAS]

Noticed no change. Crashes are very rare as long as I do not try to cut corners. I always work in 4K on a 43" screen which allows for a very comfortable global view of complex scenarios. My usual working process makes it for very little crashes and minimal loss even if a file gets corrupted. But Ctrl-S is to be used extensively in any case because the Editor can simply not be trusted.

[jollyjack]

Thanks @AEthelraedUnraed ..... Gambit will shoot at me again by re-posting this, preferably (not?) with .50. 

 

You'll have less playground in the view port, but With 4.702c and NVDIA plus windows x64 Enterprise latest updates almost no crashes. i use it always ...

zooming can be dangerous, and if a cash happens usually at a save.

 

I noticed some times a complex mission will crash more often, and a usual fix is select all items, save it as group,

start the editor new, make a fresh new mission, create the map etc and import the saved goup.

Edited January 25, 2022 by jollyjack

[IckyATLAS]

Regarding the crashes due to zooming and panning on a 4K screen here is my personal experience:

 

1) A large map (Kuban, Rheinland etc.)  with very little objects will not crash on a 4K display. You can zoom pan quickly and fast.

2) A 4K screen can display in detail a much larger number of object at once at minimum zoom factor. If you have thousands of objects, a very loaded map then when you open your mission just wait 20 seconds or so it all depends on the number of objects visible. You may not see it (objects become pixel size) if you start with the map displayed at the maximum field of view or lowest zoom factor, but the objects take time to get all displayed on the map. Many crashes happen because you start zooming and panning quickly when the system is still loading objects on the map. Once you feel all is loaded then you should pan and zoom slowly and not too fast. This does not avoid completely crashes but it reduces them by a lot.

3) Another way to reduce crashes is to work less on the map and more on the mission tree. If your mission is well designed (means to properly define the naming of objects, groups etc. is paramount)  then you can do an awful lot working with the mission tree in combination with the Search and Select function. It is faster and you have direct access to all the object properties. You cannot do everything like positioning objects, waypoints etc. but you can do a lot. Linking targets and objects can be done directly through the mission tree and the properties/advanced properties of the objects. Even certain operations can not be done on the map but only through the object properties, like Target or Object linking one object to ten others.

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by IckyATLAS

[GAE_YaniBarto]

the editor is very complex and impractical to test missions. added to that, every time something is updated the mission stops working and it turns out that you worked whole days to put it together...

[JimTM]

9 minutes ago, GAE_YaniBarto said:

the editor is very complex and impractical to test missions. added to that, every time something is updated the mission stops working and it turns out that you worked whole days to put it together...

 

You need to resave missions that you created or downloaded to get them working again.

[Gambit21]

I can confirm that zooming around/panning too quickly after loading a mission on a 4K monitor contributes to crashes. We've known this for some time.

I still succumb to it because if I'm in the editor, I'm working, I'm trying to get things done, and I've already waited umpteen seconds to get back into the editor for another adjustment. So I waste more time by rebooting after a crash many times. 

[Hinterseer]

I havent had a crash in 2 days - with these settings
Windows 10 (2K monitor)

Maybe try them?

 

Right click on the STEditor.exe and go to probertise? (see the pics)

[IckyATLAS]

On 2/5/2022 at 3:13 AM, IV./JG51-H_Hinterseer said:

I havent had a crash in 2 days - with these settings
Windows 10 (2K monitor)

Maybe try them?

 

Right click on the STEditor.exe and go to probertise? (see the pics)

I did as above just for testing. No problem with the editor but it is just a test and on a small map with nearaly nothing on it with a minimal mission that I use for test.

It was just to see if there was a problem. So I saved the small test mission. The I launched the game and I got the IL2 title screen and immediately crashed to desktop but in a hard way all frozen. I mean I had to restart the whole machine. I tested three times and three time the game after launch crashed immediately.

Then I unchecked the above parameters and then no problem all was fine again.

Now if we have to check those parameters before working with the editor and when finished close the editor and uncheck them again that's too much.

Sure if you plan to work for hours in a row that maybe okay but we do some work then test then back again etc. This creates too much additional lost time.

Can you share with us how you do proceed.

[Hinterseer]

I just finish a mission map with the settings

testing it and make changes to map, save and test again (you know the drill)

after testing as SP i made it MP and startede up the server

both the SP on my own PC and the MP on the server PC runs the map, like it should do.

no trobles at all.
runnng win10 and win7 on server.

The settings should not affect the game launch or running the game
its just not optimising the Editor for full screen.

I dont think the "run as admin" is needed (havent tested it)
you could try unthick that.

 

So the short answer is. i do the map work just like before the settings

and the settings are left as the picture - i dont change them back.

The ME is just not crashing anymore.

 

Ill gladly take a look on your mission file, and see if i can fire it up?

 

But please do the test without ticking the run as admin.
i could maybe interfeer with some local environments
 

Edited February 6, 2022 by IV./JG51-H_Hinterseer

[Gambit21]

 I refuse to F%*k with my system settings.

The editor needs to be stable, AT 4K - the end.

[Sketch]

6 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 I refuse to F%*k with my system settings.

The editor needs to be stable, AT 4K - the end.

Agreed.

 

Just moving an icon around or zooming in an out quickly causes the editor to crash in 4k. #PleaseFixItThankYou

Edited February 7, 2022 by Sketch

[IckyATLAS]

On 2/6/2022 at 12:42 PM, IV./JG51-H_Hinterseer said:

 

But please do the test without ticking the run as admin.
i could maybe interfeer with some local environments
 

Thanks for trying to help, and sharing your exerience, but the repeated crashes are a warning signal here that something is not ok, and the issue is not as simple as that. It may work on your system and that's good for you. I will not insist. I have very little crashes, working with the editor is not optimal and not efficient but I can live with it. 

I would agree with Gambit and Sketch at this point. It is the devs job to give us a reliable system and not ours to debug it.

[JG7_X-Man]

I don't see these issues - other than the occasional crash when I scroll to fast across the map when it 1st loads. Like @Gambit and @Sketch mentioned above. 

[Beebop]

2K monitor, no issues......except I sometimes forget to 'Save'/Ctrl+S.  ??

[AEthelraedUnraed]

17 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

I would agree with Gambit and Sketch at this point. It is the devs job to give us a reliable system and not ours to debug it.

To be fair, as I understand it they originally didn't even plan to release the mission editor to the public. To this day, they still don't market the ME on the store for any of their products, so it isn't really their "job" as they never sold it to us. To quote one of the many colourful Dutch proverbs - "een gegeven paard moet je niet in de bek kijken" - you shouldn't look in a horse's mouth (to determine its age and hence its value) if you were given it for free, but be thankful even if it's an old draught horse.

 

That said, I would surely appreciate it if the ME received an update. Besides improved stability, it could probably do with a couple of extra MCU types and extra functionality.

[Beebop]

Besides all the Static Planes and objects we need, (ships other than the Normandy ones, FC planes, various WWII planes, destructibility for many objects etc.), we need some kind of explanation about using the new MCU's or at least their functionality.  I know we are supposed to consider the ME a "gift" but mission building is often the lifeblood of a flight sim.  I certainly don't expect the Devs to supply us with missions/campaigns, but there are many talented builders who have already made some excellent content and I can only imagine how much more there could be if the ME was a little more user friendly.

I imagine they don't want us messing with maps but there are some rudimentary terrain tools so why have them if they'd rather not have us use them?

 

Look, I am glad we have what we have but it could be so much better.  I get they are a small (underfunded) team who put out an amazing amount of content for their size but they use 3rd Party vendors for some things we get and I'd bet that our more talented community members might work pretty cheap, if not free (maybe big discounts/free upcoming DLC's as payment?) and stay within the confines of quality expected. 

Jim TM's ME Manual, though dated, is about the only comprehensive manual we have.  Prangster's manual is good for basic building and there are several folks who produce good ME tutorials on YouTube (Sketch, Vapor etc.). 

Then there's SYN_Vander's excellent Easy Mission Generator and Patrick Wilson's marvelous Campaign Generator and I'd bet that they could give us some great insights to using the ME effectively.  Maybe all they would need is an incentive of some kind. (?)

They've used community members (input at least) to improve the sky, why not the ME?  That could allow them to concentrate on the basic core elements of the game.

 

Just wondering.

[IckyATLAS]

6 hours ago, Beebop said:

.......the new MCU's......

Did I miss something in the editor? Very possible as there is so much still to discover ? 

 

[Beebop]

 

14 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

Did I miss something in the editor? Very possible as there is so much still to discover ? 

 

Sorry.  What I meant is there are several MCU's in Jim's manual that say "Not yet implemented" and now they are.  But because they weren't working at the time of publishing there is no information as to how/when/where such as the Command Move MCU, the Translator AI POI (..."will be documented in a later edition of this manual."), Translator Next Mission ("will be documented in a later edition of this manual.").  What they do and how (if) they work is a trial and error kind of thing. 

I just haven't found info on them but maybe I don't know where to look.

[IckyATLAS]

2 hours ago, Beebop said:

 

Sorry.  What I meant is there are several MCU's in Jim's manual that say "Not yet implemented" and now they are.  But because they weren't working at the time of publishing there is no information as to how/when/where such as the Command Move MCU, the Translator AI POI (..."will be documented in a later edition of this manual."), Translator Next Mission ("will be documented in a later edition of this manual.").  What they do and how (if) they work is a trial and error kind of thing. 

I just haven't found info on them but maybe I don't know where to look.

I see. Trial and error over the years is the only thing to do according to the present status of things regarding the editor. But let's be positive we may have never got it after all. So I am fine with this status quo.