Surface Editing Manual

[Thad]

Unstable? Maybe that is why I like it.

 

I'm unstable too. ?

[No.23_Gaylion]

Alright, my mate was able to join without a file transfer error but he saw no terrain. It was all black. Mine looked like this pic. The trees were shiny at a distance and the ones in the mud were just blocks. I think I had it set to winter? So that might be the cause of that. I also don't know if I set the mission up correctly with the textures in the right spots since im not skilled with creating a mission from scratch.

 

Main this is he was able to join without transfer error at  least?

 

 

[jollyjack]

And a happy and  productive new year to ya'll just as well ...

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

5 hours ago, US213_Talbot said:

Alright, my mate was able to join without a file transfer error but he saw no terrain. It was all black. Mine looked like this pic. The trees were shiny at a distance and the ones in the mud were just blocks. I think I had it set to winter? So that might be the cause of that. I also don't know if I set the mission up correctly with the textures in the right spots since im not skilled with creating a mission from scratch.

 

Main this is he was able to join without transfer error at  least?

 

 

 

At least we got a wintermap for Arras after all ..

Edited January 2, 2022 by jollyjack

[J99_Sizzlorr]

Maybe you have to add the changed files to the missions list file so that the client knows he has to download them?

[AEthelraedUnraed]

10 hours ago, US213_Talbot said:

Alright, my mate was able to join without a file transfer error but he saw no terrain. It was all black.

Hmm, that's a bummer. It should work though if you share the relevant files with your squad beforehand. Apart from that, the only thing you might still try is moving everything to the mission folder instead of /data/graphics/... (don't forget to change the path for the relevant lines in the config files).

 

1 minute ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Maybe you have to add the changed files to the missions list file so that the client knows he has to download them?

...or this, I know nothing about how IL2 determines which files have to be shared. If there exists a list of files to download, it might suffice to add all the landscape files to that list

 

10 hours ago, US213_Talbot said:

The trees were shiny at a distance and the ones in the mud were just blocks.

Looks as if there's something wrong with far_forest_color inside the .tini config file. Check that file and make sure the far_forest_color line points to the right .dds file. It doesn't matter where it is (in fact, you might be better off moving it inside the mission folder as I said above), as long as the file is where that line says it is.

[J99_Sizzlorr]

If someone gets this to work for multiplayer mods off I would be very interested to know.

[352ndOscar]

Testing Result:  including the 3 surface files as part of the MP mission files (the No-mod option) to be downloaded from a dedicated server resulted in a “file transfer error” - whether the files resided locally on the users PC or not.  Using the surfaces files via a mod maybe the only route.

Edited January 3, 2022 by 352ndOscar

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 hour ago, 352ndOscar said:

Testing Result:  including the 3 surface files as part of the MP mission files (the No-mod option) to be downloaded from a dedicated server resulted in a “file transfer error” - whether the files resided locally on the users PC or not.  Using the surfaces files via a mod maybe the only route.

That's a bummer. Still, thanks for testing!

[352ndOscar]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

That's a bummer. Still, thanks for testing!

I’m setting up a new test using the “Mods Option” since the “No Mods Option” didn’t work.  I’ll post results as soon as completed.

[Jaegermeister]

@AEthelraedUnraed have you had an opportunity to finish your unGTP-IL2 addition to the map editing tutorial yet? I am interested in experimenting with map editing, but I seem to be stuck at unpacking the texture files and getting them in the right place in my IL2 directory. (sorted)

 

I am thinking these editing tools will definitely change the way Scripted Campaigns are done in the future and I might as well figure it out now. Thanks for all the work you have put into this.

 

This thread should be pinned BTW (Thanks @Jason_Williams )

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Jaegermeister

[Gambit21]

5 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

I am thinking these editing tools will definitely change the way Scripted Campaigns are done in the future...

 

Ugh

Yea I’ll just do weeks and months of research,build all of the airbases, place all of the friendly and enemy units and effects, build, test, and debug every mission, write the voice scripts, wrangle voice actors, edit all of the sound files and apply effects, apply the appropriate logic to play them, debug again.

 

...oh and let me edit the map too because why not. 

 

Never going to happen my friend. ?

Edited March 3, 2022 by Gambit21

[JG1_Butzzell]

S! All.

 

Map editing tool and the excellent manual are the best thing since sliced bread.

 

At JG1 we were able to use it on the center of the Kuban map to add NML, trenches and additional air bases. It is not perfect but better than just acceptable.

 

yes, we have it working mods off. Players do need to download a folder with the texture files and place that folder in their dogfight folder.

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by JG1_Butzzell

[Jaegermeister]

5 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

...oh and let me edit the map too because why not. 

Never going to happen my friend. ?

 

Don't be a party pooper ... 

 

I figured out how to unpack the files, so why not put in those missing villages that need to be blown up?

 

Maybe they didn't fill in the missing scenery on the Rhineland map because they didn't need to if someone was going to eventually figure this out anyway.

 

Now if we want to drop in on a hedgerow party in Normandy, we can at least make it look authentic. Yeah, it might take a while, but so does placing all the other objects like you said. It's just another layer of detail like the AI flights, the vehicles, the weather, the enemy AA, etc.

[Gambit21]

27 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

Don't be a party pooper ... 

 

I figured out how to unpack the files, so why not put in those missing villages that need to be blown up?

 

Maybe they didn't fill in the missing scenery on the Rhineland map because they didn't need to if someone was going to eventually figure this out anyway.

 

Now if we want to drop in on a hedgerow party in Normandy, we can at least make it look authentic. Yeah, it might take a while, but so does placing all the other objects like you said. It's just another layer of detail like the AI flights, the vehicles, the weather, the enemy AA, etc.

 

Well I know who to email for map upgrades ?

 

It’s a nice option to have, especially if it doesn’t require the end-user to install additional fines AND (this is a big one) doesn’t cause bugs/issues down the road.

[Jaegermeister]

1 minute ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Well I know who to email for map upgrades  ?

 

That would be AEthelraedUnraed... you should check out the Hurtgen missions, it's nice to see all the little villages where they are supposed to be. Especially in a part of the war where they were fortifying every little town and village.

 

I can also picture some other features looking a little better.

 

 

 

[Hamaha15]

49 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

Now if we want to drop in on a hedgerow party in Normandy, we can at least make it look authentic. Yeah, it might take a while, but so does placing all the other objects like you said.

 

...about two years for the Western part of the Netherlands...

 

The endeavor started as a supporting measure for the SP 'Operation Oyster' mission (the raid on the Philips works at Eindhoven) shared in April 2020. A 45 min low level flight mission over empty terrain simply wouldn't have worked. At that time, however, only scenery was added, no surface detail. For most of the mission related parts of the map, surface detail has been created by now but the work is still in progress. I'm working against the release date of the Mosquito to present an Operation Oyster update - and share the surface detail.

 

Colijnsplaat, Beveland, the landfall of the intruder force                                    The target Philips Strijp plant in the distance

 

Vlissingen (Flushing), Walcheren Island                                                             Middelburg, Walcheren Island           

 

Breskens, Zeeuwsch Vlanderen                                                                           Sas van Gent, Zeeuwsch Vlanderen

 

Oosterbeek, Arnheim area                                                                                    Wolfheze, Arnheim area, the landings grounds in the background

 

Fliegerhorst Soesterberg, Utrecht                                                                       Dordrecht, Southern Holland

 

s'Hertogenbosch, Northern Brabant

 

[Jaegermeister]

So for anyone that is still skeptical of the usefulness of this feature, after figuring out how to unpack and organize the files, it took me a grand total of 3 or 4 hours to figure out how this all works.

 

With an additional 3 or 4 hours, I was able to add some significant features to the map which can be shared by simply saving a mission file as directed in the tutorial in this thread and sending a zip file.

 

A forward airfield I need for a Campaign mission is not only possible, but only took about an hour to create.

 

 

Saint Vith took a little longer, but it is now in the correct place on the map., and it appears it can be converted to winter scenery with some simple text editing.

 

 

 

 

[plepew]

On 9/15/2021 at 3:28 AM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Me too There's some kind of a "showcase campaign" on its way, with which I intend to show what can be accomplished regarding battlefield detail, and what this can mean for certain missions.

 

There's still a lot that could be done with the Arras map for the Cambrai Campaign (although what you've done is fantastic! I can't thank you enough).   There are quite a few smaller villages that are missing in the default map and of course the Siegfried line/front was further east at that point in 1917.   I used the 3D models  to fill in those gaps but unfortunately they look a bit misplaced without the underlying decals.   Might not be worth attempting anything just yet as the new Western Front Map may address a lot of this when FC V2 comes out.  It might even replace the current Arras map since it will probably subsume the Arras region.  Anyway, something to think about...;-)

[Hamaha15]

4 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Saint Vith took a little longer, but it is now in the correct place on the map., and it appears it can be converted to winter scenery with some simple text editing.

Hello,

 

Your St_Vith model looks great.

 

Would you mind sharing its scenery .Group and the surface .DAT files? Over the weekend I would like to update the Bastogne map - see link below - by adding @AEthelraedUnraed's Hurthgenwald scenery. We cooperate to create between us an integral Ardennes/Eifel/Hurthengewald winter map to support future mission designs or mission generators e.g. @SYN_Vander's EMG.

 

If you agree your work could be integrated avoiding double efforts and the St-Vith/Winterspelt road may be added immediately. Any hand joining in would be highly welcome.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

[Jaegermeister]

2 hours ago, Hamaha15 said:

If you agree your work could be integrated avoiding double efforts and the St-Vith/Winterspelt road may be added immediately. Any hand joining in would be highly welcome.

 

 

Thanks, I don't mind sharing the files at all, I would be happy to join in. I am redoing my old Achtung Jabos campaign, and it involves missions to various towns in the Ardennes. Contributing to that map project would be a great time saver for us all I think.

 

7 hours ago, gagood17 said:

Might not be worth attempting anything just yet as the new Western Front Map may address a lot of this when FC V2 comes out.  It might even replace the current Arras map since it will probably subsume the Arras region.  Anyway, something to think about...;-)

 

My understanding of the WIP notes is that the 3 FC maps will all fit together to cover the front up to the top of the Arras map. The next 2 should be south of Arras and then southwest of that covering the Chateau Thierry, Verdun areas. I'm not sure how much overlap there might be. I think there was an approximate image posted somewhere a year or so ago.

[SYN_Vander]

33 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

Thanks, I don't mind sharing the files at all, I would be happy to join in. I am redoing my old Achtung Jabos campaign, and it involves missions to various towns in the Ardennes. Contributing to that map project would be a great time saver for us all I think.

 

 

My understanding of the WIP notes is that the 3 FC maps will all fit together to cover the front up to the top of the Arras map. The next 2 should be south of Arras and then southwest of that covering the Chateau Thierry, Verdun areas. I'm not sure how much overlap there might be. I think there was an approximate image posted somewhere a year or so ago.

 

Yes, the new map will cover the current Arras map as well (with some additions). The FC2 part will add the Verdun/St. Mihiel area so (almost?) no overlap with FC 1. In FC3 the area in between (Reims etc) will be filled in.

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by SYN_Vander

[plepew]

@SYN_Vander and @Jaegermeister thanks for the feedback.    Ok, I'm going to have to start playing around with this now.  This could be really cool and will certainly suck up a huge number of hours.... but as they say, no time is wasted doing something you love.   Haven't really looked but I'm guessing there is (or will be) a repository of map mods so that we can re-use and not re-invent mods.

[Jaegermeister]

I converted St Vith to winter. It was a little more involved than I thought. I probably should have kept the files in the standard locations and edited the .txt file. Resaving the Autumn file as winter did not transfer the texture additions. When I copied and pasted from the autumn file, it deleted the texture file links. I think there must be a better way...

 

[Hamaha15]

Yep, importing from one map into the other isn't self explanatory. Even if the surfcetex files make sure that all identical surface files have the same line numbers. Please send me your .group-file and the two .dat-files. I will check whether importing between our two winter maps will work smoothly on the first attempt.

 

Unlike the .group-files when imported as 'templates', the .dat-files are placed at the cursor's current position and not at a pre-defined location. You have to import the groups first and adjust the surface details in a second step. And yes, the same texture may look different in a different season map. Rework is always mandatory.

 

That's how I had to find out that it's either map or mission design at one time. I decided to set the stage first for future operations...

 

Cheers

Edited March 5, 2022 by Hamaha15

[jollyjack]

You experts probably know this, but mark preserve position when importing surface.dat files, other wise you might end up with a mess:

 

[Hamaha15]

Another prerequisite for .dat file exchange should be the use of a common 'SurfaceTex.txt' file. Otherwise the surface elements are corrupted after importing or appear as white blanks.

 

However, I just imported La Calamine/Kelmis in Eastern Belgium, to the Southeast of Aachen/Aix-la-Chapelle just short of the German border, as provided by @VAG_Sevy into the 'growing' Ardennes map. Although I use the same SurfaceTex that he does, I see white blanks and have to rebuild the surface texture.

 

Any idea?

Edited March 6, 2022 by Hamaha15

[jollyjack]

I PMd you ...

Edited March 6, 2022 by jollyjack

[Gambit21]

Good stuff guys.

[jollyjack]

Specifically address the terrain texture preset, and press apply ...

it seems to me you also need 'activating' terrain presets one by one.

Save and exit the ME.

Before loading the mission again into the ME and saving it again (a must), check that the textures.tini file is pointing to the correct places,

the 7th line? and the line that starts with surface="(folder where the corresponding surface.dat file is).

 

Cross your fingers, it might work ...

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by jollyjack

[Hamaha15]

I'm still puzzled.

 

One finding is for sure:

 

• Importing or copying of textures work between equal season maps with identical 'SurfaceTex' files involved.
  
  That's why I was able to import @AEthelraedUnraed's Huerthgenwald winter scenery into the Ardennes winter map straight forward w/o issues.
  It's possible to copy terrain detail from the spring into the summer map because their SurfaceTex files are identical - all texture.dds etc files are picked from the 'graphics\LANDSCAPE_Rheinland_su\' directory. I succeeded in importing a pond.dds rehearsel file from the spring into the summer map. The same operation did not work between spring and winter map.

Maybe AEthel... knows the missing link. He imported the Asch airfield scenery created on the winter map into the autumn map. The chapter 4.7 of his manual leaves open i.m.o. how to transport the properties of the textures from one map to the other in the first place. White blanks are evidence that the properties were lost in the process.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Hamaha15

[Nocke]

I am fiddling around with trains and would like to have a representation of the railroad system. I unpacked e.g. Map2.gtp, found therein the folder graphics/landscape_stalin_a/roads, and there the railroads.ini, containing a list of coordinate pairs.

However, assuming this is for Stalingrad Autumn, I can't relate the coordinates to the actual railroads I find on the map, even taking the Map_Scale_Factor of 25 given in the roads.ini.

Whatever I try to interprete these coordinates - I can't find railrodas on the map at theses coordinates.

 

Does any of you experts maybe have an idea?

 

Thank you!

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

9 minutes ago, 216th_Nocke said:

I am fiddling around with trains and would like to have a representation of the railroad system. I unpacked e.g. Map2.gtp, found therein the folder graphics/landscape_stalin_a/roads, and there the railroads.ini, containing a list of coordinate pairs.

However, assuming this is for Stalingrad Autumn, I can't relate the coordinates to the actual railroads I find on the map, even taking the Map_Scale_Factor of 25 given in the roads.ini.

Whatever I try to interprete these coordinates - I can't find railrodas on the map at theses coordinates.

 

Does any of you experts maybe have an idea?

 

Thank you!

They are the coordinates. Do take care though that IL2 uses a differently oriented coordinate system than is conventional. I.e. the first coordinate is the vertical axis, the second the horizontal.

[Nocke]

I am aware of this. However if I put vehicles in the editor at coordinates found in railroad.ini, or at those values multiplied with the scaling factor of 25 - there are no rails.

I'll try a different offset. Maybe x-axis-origin is not as in editor, but origin is at top?

[DD_Friar]

I am currently working on a mission on the Arras map but want to use WWII planes. I have found that the airfields are very bumpy and unsuitable for 109's !

 

Is it just a case of going into the surface editor (I have had look at the guide and opened the features but am far from understanding what to do) and reducing the bump value on all the elements for an airfield?

I dont need to change textures, just flatten it out?

 

Also, if that works, for a multiplayer map do I need to go through renaming files etc so that other players will get the same smooth areas?

 

Salute

DD_Friar.

 

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

9 minutes ago, DD_Friar said:

I am currently working on a mission on the Arras map but want to use WWII planes. I have found that the airfields are very bumpy and unsuitable for 109's !

 

Is it just a case of going into the surface editor (I have had look at the guide and opened the features but am far from understanding what to do) and reducing the bump value on all the elements for an airfield?

I dont need to change textures, just flatten it out?

 

Also, if that works, for a multiplayer map do I need to go through renaming files etc so that other players will get the same smooth areas?

 

Salute

DD_Friar.

No, the bump value only changes the appearance of the surface, not the factual bumpiness. However, in the last tab of the properties, there should be a "smooth surface" and "concrete" or something (I'm not behind my PC right now) checkbox that should have your desired result.

[Hamaha15]

I'm behind my PC above the Ardennes hills right now...

 

The bump value modifies the shadow effects of a texture if it's designed for, e.g. certain roads, town decals and embankments.

 

The 'surfline' tab of the properties dialogue of a tape offers the possibility to assign 'solid' or 'concreate' (sic!) physics. In both cases the ground becomes firm, allowing a plane for moving around. Moving over solid ground produces dust and leaves traces, moving over concrete does not. In no case wavy and bumpy land becomes smooth. Both options prevent a plane from sinking into soggy ground only.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Hamaha15

[AEthelraedUnraed]

Just now, Hamaha15 said:

The 'surfline' tab of the properties dialogue of a tape offers the possibility to assign 'solid' or 'concreate' (sic!) physics.

Thanks for providing the correct names

 

1 minute ago, Hamaha15 said:

In both cases the ground becomes firm, allowing a plane for moving around. Moving over solid ground produces dust and leaves traces, moving over concrete does not. In no case wavy and bumpy land becomes smooth. Both options prevent a plane fron sinking into soggy ground only.

I think it also removes the "micro bumps" in the terrain that were added for Tank Crew a while ago?

[Hamaha15]

Logic says yes, as these values are designed for roads.

 

I 'planted' La Gorgue airfield, just East of Merville in a bend of the river Lys on the Arras map. Taking off is possible, because of the soggy ground becoming solid, but still a hazard because of the terrain's macro waves and bumps which shake your plane considerably.

 

 

 

 

[DD_Friar]

Salute Chaps much appreciated. I found the property and set it to solid and concrete, my 109 ws able to take off and land no problem.

 

I would like to be able to make the runways a little longer. I can not seem to be to "stretch" the existing tiles or copy them?

 

Without abusing your good nature, how complicated would it be to extend the ground blocks to make the runway longer please?

[Hamaha15]

The solid runway is in fact an invisible tape at the lowest level of the structure - I guess it's the one at level -19 on your screenshot. Make the tape wide enough and stretch it to be larger than the desired airfield shape. Select 'solid' physics in case of a grass runway.

 

Invisibility is achieved by setting the opacity to zero at the properties-appearence tab.