My final verdict: VivePro2 vs. Index

[chiliwili69]

I have been testing the HTC VivePro2 for 10 days, about 18 hours in total. Normally I just play 8 hour per month.

The other contender was the Valve Index.

 

My first tests were not fully satisfying and I did a number of things which improved the experience significantly:

 

- Modify the face cushion, specially in the laterals, so the head is fully fixed to the headset (look this)

- Spend more a more hours using it and quickly learn how to find the right focused position (find sweetspot or eye-box)

- Change the distance to lens regulation to maximize the FOV. My eyes are pretty close to the lenses and comfortable.

- Always use the Ultra mode (2448x2448 per eye, 90Hz)

- Try multiple SteamVR SS ratios (from 150% to 80%) and see how 90fps can be maintained. (I use a 3080 GPU).

 

 

Visual definition and sharpness:

Here the VP2 at 100%SS is superior to the Index (even using 150%SS in Index). The VP2 definition is very similar to the G2.

To judge that you can look at the through-the-lens pictures of G2 vs. Index I took here.

The resolution of the first reason for me to pre-order the VP2.

 

HFOV: The VP2 seems to be a little bit higher. But when checking six it doesn´t seems to give me more than Index. 

VFOV: The Index is significantly higher, but the VP2 vertical&horizontal proportions are different.

 

Edge-to-edge clarity: Initially it was not good in the VP2, but after playing with the foams I finally find the good edge-to-edge clarity. It is much much better than the G2. Vertically it goes clear all range. Horizontally, from center of view to the nose is almost all clear, from center to laterals you have 80% of range clear. I would say the edge-to-edge clarity of the Index is a bit superior to the VP2.

 

Tracking: I only use one basestation(v1.0) and in both devices the tracking is just perfect for my seated position at 1.5 meters. Perhaps a bit better the VP2 since, the VP2 is keeping tracking even when I am totally looking at my back 180 degrees. Normally my body+neck doesn´t allow me to do that when seated, so not really an advantage in normal play game.

 

Glare/godrays: The VP2 shows more glare than Index in high contrast scenes (IL-2 menus), but normal play game it really doesn´t matter too much. Maybe in some night flights or when looking at needles over black background. 

 

Colors: The VP2 colors (with LCD) are very much comparable to the VivePro colors (with OLED), but they are not too far from the Index colors. In any case, this is something that doesn´t influence me too much above a certain level.

 

Comfort: Once I did my foam mod the VP2 is very comfortable, I used it for 3 continuous hours and it was fine. The Index is heavier and not well balanced, but once I made my mods to the Index, both devices and very comfortable. So no differences here.

 

Audio: The VP2 is not as bad as initially thought. Here I could prefer the over ear headphones of Index, but the VP2 also offers a bit more bass than Index. In any case, audio is something never consider when choosing a headset since I can always use hi-fi headphones if needed.

 

Performance: It seems that the Vive Console software make a quick GPU test before launching SteamVR, and based on that define the resolution for 100%SteamVR. That´s why sometimes I had 2900x2900, other 3052x3052, other 2943x2943, but more or less all around the same value. This can be disabled in the VR settings of the Vive Console. Look this.

In the past I having trying all kinds of ASW tech (Motion Smoothing in SteamVR, or Motion Compensation in Vive Console) and I know I don´t like them. In general, they do a good job for 99.5% percent of the image, but there are always those glitches or little artifacts which bring the attention of my eye, and they are disturbing at game. So, For the Index my goal is to be at 80fps (80Hz mode) and 90fps for VP2.

On the VP2 having around 3000x3000 per eye at 90Hz is 1.62Gpixels per second

On the Index at 150% I have 2469x2743 per eye at 80Hz is 1.08Gpixels per second.

 

If there is no clouds, I can keep with VP2 the 90fps with 3000x3000 about 80% of the time, and if I decrease to 2500x2500 then I am 99% of the time at 90fps. A better card (3080Ti or 3090) will raise the SS% a bit higher, but will not solve totally the problem.

But at 2500X2500 the visual definition is still quite good, better than in the Index.

 

 

VEDICT: I will keep the Index!!

 

WHY?

After being 2 continuous hours of fun with the VP2 in my favourite test scenario (Kuban Novorosyck 4x4 QMB-spring 18:30) I than tried the Index, and in just 5 minutes I realized I preferred the Index. It was a very clear decision.

 

Reason is the better overall clarity of the images (no sharpness or image definition) and higher level of presence. The Index immerses me more than the VP2. It is difficult to explain in objective terms but it is how I feel it.

 

The performance thing didn´t count on my decision, even if the VP2 would run at perfect 90fps always (with a 4080Ti!) I would keep the Index.

 

So, I will continue with my Index for another year (at least) since nothing new is in the horizon.

 

But the VP2, it is also a very good device (and very demanding) and I perfectly understand the people who like it.

 

Disclaimer: All above is just my subjective feelings

Edited June 18, 2021 by chiliwili69

[SCG_Wulfe]

The index has something special. It's hard to describe and the specifications on paper just don't tell the whole story. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by SCG_Wulfe

[ICDP]

My understanding is that the Index has a higher binocular overlap than the VP2 and that would explain the better "presence".  For other like myself the clarity is what matters and that is where the likes of the Index cannot remotely compete.  I wonder if there will be an Index 2 and if it will be a case of the same with higher resolution.

 

Here's hoping.

[dburne]

3 hours ago, ICDP said:

My understanding is that the Index has a higher binocular overlap than the VP2 and that would explain the better "presence".  For other like myself the clarity is what matters and that is where the likes of the Index cannot remotely compete.  I wonder if there will be an Index 2 and if it will be a case of the same with higher resolution.

 

Here's hoping.

 

Yeah for me both the Reverb G2 and the Vive Pro 2 definitely won out in the clarity department for flight sims over the Index.

Can't say I notice any difference in sense of presence between the three. I am sure some are more sensitive maybe to that than others.

 

Now with the Vive Pro 2 though I can go back to one headset for all my VR games. That is a big plus for me.

Edited June 18, 2021 by dburne

[ICDP]

My HMD VR history (boring I know)

 

• DK2:  This is what sold me on the immersive experience but it lasted a week before I sold it due to worthless resolution.
• CV1:  Still pretty poor resolution and the SDE was terrible.  I get why some people felt the immersion is what mattered but not being able to read most dials kinda sucks in sims.
• Lenovo Explorer WMR:  Starting to get there with resolution but very poor edge to edge clarity.

At this point every VR HMD was only useful for sight seeing IMHO.  Well if you were a cateract suffering mugger wearing a scuba mask and a pair of tights/pantyhoes over your face.

• Next up was a Samsung Odyssey with 1440x1600 resolution.  This is when VR for sims became viable for me but even then I still preferred 4K 2D gaming.
• Pimax 5K+ was not bad, similar clarity to a Samsung Odyssey but the FoV was next level.  Suffered from average LCD screen with bad contrast and colours.
• HP Reverb G1 had decent clarity but crap FOV and that WMR tracking was fairly problematic in hindsight
• Pimax 8KX has great resolution and great FoV but only average edge to edge clarity.
• VP2 gives me useably FOV, good resolution and great edge to edge clarity and is my HMD of choice for now.

 

Until the next tiny leap of course ?

Edited June 18, 2021 by ICDP

[chiliwili69]

13 hours ago, ICDP said:

the clarity is what matters and that is where the likes of the Index cannot remotely compete.  I wonder if there will be an Index 2 and if it will be a case of the same with higher resolution.

 

By clarity you mean more defined objects because higher resolution. Yes, VP2 is quite above in terms of pixels count.

 

My ideal headset would be just the Index but with higher resolution. Let´s see what Valve could bring next year...

[chiliwili69]

14 hours ago, ICDP said:

My HMD VR history

Mine started as well with the DK1 (Kickstarter backer) and DK2.

 

For IL-2 my history is:

 

CV1- Enjoy that awsome design and compactness.

VivePro- sold after 5 days (awfull edge-to-edge clarity) and continue with CV1. Look through-the-lens here.

Pimax5K- Great FOV, sold CV1. Look through-the-lens here.

Index- Awesome lens clarity, sold Pimax5K. Look through-the-lens here.

Reverb G1 - Wow in resolution, but kept Index.  Look through-the-lens here.

Reverb G2 - Same Wow in resolution, but kept Index. Look through-the-lens here.

VivePro2 - As said above, but kept Index. No through-the-lens pictures taken.

 

But all last three, G2, VP2 and Index are good devices for IL-2 VR.

[ICDP]

Really not sure what you mean by better overall clarity of the Index being superior to VP2 (and others)?  I'm not disputing it but just feel confused.

 

Now I know you don't mean resolution or SDE (because if you do then get your eyes checked ?).  So are you talking about mura or edged to edge clarity?  Your conclussion dosn't seem to make sense because I cannot fathom how the Index has better overall clarity compared to a VP2.  Unless there is some other area I am not aware of?

Edited June 19, 2021 by ICDP

[chiliwili69]

Visual clarity isn’t just about panel resolution. Multiple attributes contribute to how clearly and comfortably you see details in VR. It is a mix of panel resolution, subpixel fill, refresh rate, low persistency, lens quality, etc.

 

When I say "overall clarity" I was counting all the other items except panel resolution, that´s why I put in brakets "(no sharpness or image definition)".

 

When I look through the lenses of the Index the images (although more pixelated than in VP2 or G2) seems more vivid or real. It gives me more the feeling that I am "in" and not looking through a lens.

 

It is not a night and day difference, but for me enough to neglect the superb resolution of the G2 or VP2. I wish you could try an Index to "see" what I mean.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

Visual clarity isn’t just about panel resolution. Multiple attributes contribute to how clearly and comfortably you see details in VR. It is a mix of panel resolution, subpixel fill, refresh rate, low persistency, lens quality, etc.

 

When I say "overall clarity" I was counting all the other items except panel resolution, that´s why I put in brakets "(no sharpness or image definition)".

 

When I look through the lenses of the Index the images (although more pixelated than in VP2 or G2) seems more vivid or real. It gives me more the feeling that I am "in" and not looking through a lens.

 

It is not a night and day difference, but for me enough to neglect the superb resolution of the G2 or VP2. I wish you could try an Index to "see" what I mean.

 

 

For me the Index just was not there for clarity and sharpness of cockpit versus Reverb G2 or Vive Pro 2. It did great for me in games like Alyx and Medal of Honor, but not flight sims.

I find the G2 and VP2 to be way better for me. Thankfully now with the VP2 I can get back to using just one headset.

Different strokes...

Edited June 19, 2021 by dburne

[ICDP]

5 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

Visual clarity isn’t just about panel resolution. Multiple attributes contribute to how clearly and comfortably you see details in VR. It is a mix of panel resolution, subpixel fill, refresh rate, low persistency, lens quality, etc.

 

When I say "overall clarity" I was counting all the other items except panel resolution, that´s why I put in brakets "(no sharpness or image definition)".

 

When I look through the lenses of the Index the images (although more pixelated than in VP2 or G2) seems more vivid or real. It gives me more the feeling that I am "in" and not looking through a lens.

 

It is not a night and day difference, but for me enough to neglect the superb resolution of the G2 or VP2. I wish you could try an Index to "see" what I mean.

 

VR is a dark art to be sure

 

I have had people tell me I was wrong about the 8KX compared to VP2, or that the CV1 was awesome for example.  Over the years all I have learned about VR is objectivity is totally subjective ?

[chiliwili69]

8 hours ago, ICDP said:

Over the years all I have learned about VR is objectivity is totally subjective

 

Yes, fully agree with that. After all the VP2 reviews and specs I have seen I am happy to have tested the VP2 by myself and be able to compare with the Index in A-B comparison. So, if budget allows the best method is always try it for your self.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Yeah same here, I've also tested quite a few headsets and it really is subjective, as @ICDP says.

 

Some factors can be quantified, like weight, FOVs and sharpness with thin cushions and audio ranges to some degree, others less so, like edge-to-edge clarity which depends on facial and eyeball shape.

 

 

See, I started with VR and then got into Simulators as a consequence of IL-2 adding VR Support  What I have gotten to know over the few years in this hobby is that the user needs to grow into a new VR headset. 

 

My Pro 2 was here 4 days before release day - but I didn't write a report yet - I gave it time, I knew I had to.

 

On perceived clarity vs factual clarity:

 

Day 1, I felt the picture was a bit mushy and not as sharp as the G2. Then I switched back to the G2 and it had harder, corny pixels. These had annoyed me before and I experimented, trying to get rid of them before with various mixes of anti-aliasing or supersampling. No need anymore. What happened was that the Pro 2 had some kind of diffusion layer similar to the Index to create smoother, rounded pixels. And I misinterpreted that for a less clear picture.

 

Day 2, I tested ability to read at a distance in TestHMD1.2 of both headsets against eachother and they were the same, with the G2 giving a "clearer impression" in that environment of the room. But it wasn't objectively clearer.

 

Day 3, when I flew around in Simulators with the Pro 2 I really enjoyed that pixels of objects like trees and houses would crawl/aliase/flicker much less than in the G2. The picture was actually smoother, superior. I also tested edge-to-edge clarity in TestHMD1.2 in the specialised test for it, and the Pro 2 - for me - has beaten any competitor.

 

 

What I especially like is the sharp picture, that does not show pixel-flicker / pixel-edges. That's well thought out. Now, if I test this with the WiFi-Adapter, I will probably get the wireless Index - with less screendoor and wider FOV - that everyone has been asking for for 2 years now.