Tactical Air War - Bomber career voting

[LLv24_Kessu]

Meeting is now.... Axis#1 channel on TS

 

[E69_Falke_Wolf]

My squadmates have informed me about yesterday's meeting.
I just want to say thanks to @=LG=Kathon @=LG=Blakhart and the rest of the LG members for their effort and work at TAW.
And thank you for listening to requests from bomber pilots.

[=GEMINI=IngegnerTommy]

Hi guys, unfortunately was impossible for me and my teammates to join at that time on Sunday, nevertheless  I saw that many squadrons were invited and, if I understood correctly, the starting point for the discussion was the result of this poll which shows clearly that almost 90% of the players would like to see solutions to bring back the bombers, so I’d hope the conversation was pretty straightforward.

 

May I ask - ideally to LG but also from other attendees of this meeting - to write a short report of what was discussed and agreed? I think a lot of people would be eager to know what’s next ☺️
 

thanks in advance!

 

[Blakhart]

5 hours ago, E69_Falke_Wolf said:

.

 

Cheers!
We also see the problems with lack of bombers over the eastern front. 
The biggest problem was and is the Pe-2 ( and lack of DB-3 in the game), but if the community accept this, for us it's completly fine to make some changes.

I hope limited bombers will solve the problem.
Aditional il2/110 can be also removed if majority doesnt want it.

 

5 hours ago, =GEMINI=IngegnerTommy said:

 

Flyus747 created a Discrod where all the TAW maniacs can help and create those lines. Current posibilites, code limitations & instructions, how to do it were given yesterday by me on TS3.
Some info is on the Discord also You can ask Geramos, Gote, Widu and Kessu about it .

About the 110s in the game. 
This plane was used only in small numbers on the eastern front and there is no logical explantion how such strong plane should be available without collecting 16 CP.
110 fans have some basic planes available at the begin before unlocking the 110 and from the 4th map Hs129 is in the operational service, so  they have aditional tool to get their favourite plane.

I'll take care about some part of the job but need Your help with defining new limited bombers in the planeset ( info in discord).



Discord have text channel to report the bugs.

We plan to open the discussion channel for everyone, where the everyone from the community will help other with simple questions&problems.





 

Edited May 24, 2021 by =LG=Blakhart

[LLv24_Kessu]

BlakHart - thank you for a constructive discussion on Sunday.

 

So the plan (for the next campaign) is to give a free bomber with limited payload to all pilots who choose the bomber line as the advanced plane (and only to those pilots). Originally discussion was a HE111 for blue and PE2 for red. And IL2 and ME110 would be removed from the adv bomber lines.

 

Something to consider:

As highlighted - PE2 is a bit of a challenge due to it's multi-role capability. As a solution ME110 was discussed if it could be given to dedicated 110 pilots (me110 chosen as the adv plane) - but no agreement was found.

So I'm interested - would this be acceptable to red players? And say - if red players received IL2 in similar fashion - would it be OK then?

 

If above is not acceptable - then (and only then) I would propose to give JU88 as the first bomber to Blue as it also is a multipurpose bomber and more similar to PE2 in that sense.

[Blakhart]

3 hours ago, LLv24_Kessu said:

 

He111 h6 limited for He line, Ju88 limited for Ju88 line, Pe2 s35 for Peshka line, Pe2s35 for Boston line (all 4x250kg).

Something to consider:
 

On 5/24/2021 at 4:23 PM, =LG=Blakhart said:

About the 110s in the game. 
This plane was used only in small numbers on the eastern front and there is no logical explantion how such strong plane should be available without collecting 16 CP.
110 fans have some basic planes available at the begin before unlocking the 110 and from the 4th map Hs129 is in the operational service, so  they have aditional tool to get their favourite plane.

I'll take care about some part of the job but need Your help with defining new limited bombers in the planeset ( info in flyus  discord).

 

[=KG76=flyus747]

If you want to help make bombers in TAW better, join the discord.

 

TAW Basic Bomber Project

https://discord.gg/2nqUaJKa

Edited May 26, 2021 by =KG76=flyus747
Title

[-DED-22GvIAD_Koschey]

I usually fly a Pe-2. So I'll write about it.
For the initial maps of Moscow, E69_Gone says correctly, loading on 4x250.
In order to avoid the possibility of storming ground units and throwing 100 on tanks. The main use of Pe2 in the initial periods is horizontal bombardment. The technique of working off dive targets was developed in the later stages of the war. The destruction of ground vehicles is still the prerogative of the Il-2 attack aircraft.
The set must contain two planes:
1. Basic - 4x250.
2. Premium - all downloads are available.
But to get a premium plane, you have to try very hard to get it. Dial about 46CP .
If a premium plane is lost, you need to dial CP26 to get it back.
I apologize for the machine translation.

And a little more clarification.
For pilots who have chosen the Fighter and Attack Aircraft lines, only the transport Pe-2 should be available.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

On 5/18/2021 at 6:32 AM, =LG=Blakhart said:

Thanks for huge community feedback on bomber career topic.
Bomber career support topic

Next time stick to the rules and use "Poll" section please.

Also use this drill: "Tactical Air War RCP - issue "
It's easier to count and calculate votes. 
Thanks in advance!

But...
Do you want to make a war when red side is wining constantly due to Pe-2 + il2 destructive abilities
No?
So please read caerfully, think twice and then make votes.


Few words about the current situaton.

There is a bigger reason behind actual shape of planeset:

1.
- server rules and deadly enviroment(AAA) must force people to fly in squadrons/groups like in ww2, because we simulate ww2 from the air force perspective, finally we will all understand that solo missions = 100 death

- we want to encourage everyone to join the teamspeak, socialize with other pilots, make friends, create the community
- atmosphere of community will be better when we will talk more on comms instead of fighting on forum 

2.
Why there is a il2 or 110 before bomber ?

To understand this fact You also need to go into LW / VVS RKKA structure and check what units were operating at Moscov/Stalingrad/Kuban campaigns and how many il2/He111/Ju88/Pe2/110/hs129 was in service.

But first of all.
*
If there will be a bomber available for everyone right away people will use it without any risk managment.
When You need to earn so much points to unlock the plane you will think 4 times before stupid solo mission.
*
Red side dont have real level bomber. How we can balance this ?
Pe-2 can make sneaky dive attacks and run away on the deck with his deadly gunners making better escort than any other fighter
*
There is a huge problem with total team red-blue balance.
If people want bomber career, both sides should have it. In other way there will be huge fight about it.
If we will give Pe-2 to red side as a advance plane (without il2) people will use pe2 for every type of attack to feel immortal and by saved by speed, gunner and still make solo arcade missions. 
Also in case of historical accuracy, il2 was mostly used plane. You can check how many squadrons there was in operational service over Stalingrad
Check this cool excel file prepared by @LukeFF  to understand why there should be more il2 than Pe-2 available in some campaigns.
Stalingrad order of battle

Also->
In fact there should be even less hs129 and bf110 due to historical acccuracy, but if we will follow this path then Blue side will be seriously downgraded in terms of achieving overall victory in the campaign.  
And we don't want that.

So ?
You still want to complain guys?   Please dig deeper into history and try to understand.
You think creating a planeset with all those limitations and factors is easy ? No it isnt. 
There is more factors than "I want my bomber right now because I'm a bomber".
Please think about the whole problem and then try to help with some solutions

3.

- every player must present some skill level and effort to fly advanced, better planes, bomber pilots are not better nor worst than any other

- bomber pilots are not forced to fly fighters, on basic planes You have Ju-87 Stuka/Hs129/U-2/I16/il2 as a ground attack plane

- this is every pilot choice what they want to use


If you read all of this and now aware about the problems want to vote please make post in this thread with
"Long live the TAW!" or start your post with this sentence so I ll know if You ignored all those information or not.
Then I ll know which post I should ignore too.

 

p.s
Creating a new bomber line cost a lot of effort and time so to make it we need volunteers who help with coding
I expect @E69_Gote and other folks supporting are also a volunteers to make the hard job with the script.

p.s.2
If You have idea how to limit the payload or solve the problems mentioned by me please leave comments.
Be aware -> code likes simple solutions -> someone will have to do it and we already have plans for next TAW more importnat updates so we need volunteers to make some part of the script

Cheers!

LukeFF was involved !?!? He really hates bombers and doesn't fly online at all. That explains a lot how things went south so badly. You couldn't have gotten a worse advisor.

 

I am OK with #1.

 

You care so much about historical accuracy and your solution was to make level bomber pilots to fly fighters/attackers ???

If you want make bombers valuable make it available again 24/48 hours later after losing your last one.

If you want to penalize people more, make them also fly 3 or more supply missions before you have another bomber available.  It can make sense flying supply missions and hold the frontlines for longer but flying fighters and attackers don't.

 

Nobody cares if reds always win. People just want to have fun flying good missions based on their own skills on their favorite flight role. Besides that Reds really won the war, it is perfectly accurate. 

 

You don`t have resources to code everything you want ?! Ok that is the first law of economics, materials are scarce. But unfortunately you spent what you had to get things worse. Just try to restore the old code if possible. Must be a backup somewhere.

 

p.s

 

It is reasonable to make polls/threads before expending scarce resources to understand people's desires instead of implement major changes on your own. We are here to help and try to improve things.

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[Cybermat47]

2 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Gielow said:

LukeFF was involved !?!? He really hates bombers and doesn't fly online at all. That explains a lot how things went south so badly. You couldn't have gotten a worse advisor.

 

What does any of that have to do with the historical data Luke provided about the VVS Order of Battle at Stalingrad five years ago?

[SE.VH_Boemundo]

About Pe-2 gunnery skills: is it possible to tune down or at least randomize Pe-2 gunner aiming since it is so deadly?

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by SE.VH_Boemundo

[WokeUpDead]

1 hour ago, SE.VH_Boemundo said:

About Pe-2 gunnery skills: is it possible to tune down or at least randomize Pe-2 gunner aiming since it is so deadly?

 

 

I believe it already is, I'm pretty sure most Pe-2 ai gunners are "novices" with some random ones being "normal." The Pe2 doesn't have special AI; it has the most effective heavy machine gun in the game and a turret with an almost 180 degree firing arc.

[=KG76=flyus747]

20 hours ago, WokeUpDead said:

 

I believe it already is, I'm pretty sure most Pe-2 ai gunners are "novices" with some random ones being "normal." The Pe2 doesn't have special AI; it has the most effective heavy machine gun in the game and a turret with an almost 180 degree firing arc.

The issue isn't so much the accuracy but the caliber of the rounds.

 

What does everyone think is best basic loadout for Pe2? 

4x250 or 2x250?

[WokeUpDead]

1 hour ago, =KG76=flyus747 said:

The issue isn't so much the accuracy but the caliber of the rounds.

 

What does everyone think is best basic loadout for Pe2? 

4x250 or 2x250?

 

Right, the German ground-attackers don't carry rear-facing HMGs, they use their light calibre guns instead. It's the same calibre as the US .50 and the German Heavy Machine Gun (HMG), but unlike the .50cal it has incendiary rounds modelled and it's better than the German gun too. But is this a "problem" that needs fixing or is it simply a realistic strength of the plane? I think saying that the Pe-2's rear gun is too good is like saying that the 190 has too many guns or that the G2 climbs too well.

 

4x250 is actually really good for a basic load-out, almost as good as 10x100 and actually better for tank-busting unless you're a ground-attack ace who can put a 100kg bomb right on top of a Tiger tank. 2x250 would be more appropriate for a basic plane, it will still get you at least two kills per sortie, probably more if the target is dense. A single 250 can also kill targets worth multiple CPs, so coming back to base with 6CPs after a level-bombing run with 2x250 is not out of the question.

 

I'm not sure if a restriction of 2x250 can be easily implemented, it's not one of the basic load-out options available on the menu. You could force the Pe2 to carry 8 rockets which then restricts the bomb load to 2x250. These are the small rockets that aren't as effective as the big ones that IL-2s can carry. However, the rocket racks create a lot of drag and they can't be jettisoned, so then you're limiting the Pe-2s effectiveness AND slowing it down.

[=KG76=flyus747]

45 minutes ago, WokeUpDead said:

 

Right, the German ground-attackers don't carry rear-facing HMGs, they use their light calibre guns instead. It's the same calibre as the US .50 and the German Heavy Machine Gun (HMG), but unlike the .50cal it has incendiary rounds modelled and it's better than the German gun too. But is this a "problem" that needs fixing or is it simply a realistic strength of the plane? I think saying that the Pe-2's rear gun is too good is like saying that the 190 has too many guns or that the G2 climbs too well.

 

4x250 is actually really good for a basic load-out, almost as good as 10x100 and actually better for tank-busting unless you're a ground-attack ace who can put a 100kg bomb right on top of a Tiger tank. 2x250 would be more appropriate for a basic plane, it will still get you at least two kills per sortie, probably more if the target is dense. A single 250 can also kill targets worth multiple CPs, so coming back to base with 6CPs after a level-bombing run with 2x250 is not out of the question.

 

I'm not sure if a restriction of 2x250 can be easily implemented, it's not one of the basic load-out options available on the menu. You could force the Pe2 to carry 8 rockets which then restricts the bomb load to 2x250. These are the small rockets that aren't as effective as the big ones that IL-2s can carry. However, the rocket racks create a lot of drag and they can't be jettisoned, so then you're limiting the Pe-2s effectiveness AND slowing it down.

I'm not sure which one you're rooting for. 4x250 or 2x250 for basic?

 

I think 4x250 is the loadout most Pe2s run with anyways so giving the Pe2 this loadout will not fix the "everyone is grabbing Pe2s and running the map" problem that BH has mentioned in previous seasons.

 

Giving it 8 rockets doesn't sound like a bad idea, but if you want it then I think it is even more necessary to give the 2x250s, not the 4x250. 

 

P.s it is possible to restrict the loadout options on the right side of the menu, we just need to figure out what basic loadouts are for each aircraft.

 

Bottom line is, every bomber is different and thus...should not carry the same loadout. A 111 with 4x250 cannot be as effective as a Pe2 with 4x250. Think about speed, defensive armament, survivability and all that jazz, we just can't apply a uniform loadout without expecting severe repercussions from community for whoever gets the short end of the stick.

[WokeUpDead]

4 hours ago, =KG76=flyus747 said:

I'm not sure which one you're rooting for. 4x250 or 2x250 for basic?

 

I think 4x250 is the loadout most Pe2s run with anyways so giving the Pe2 this loadout will not fix the "everyone is grabbing Pe2s and running the map" problem that BH has mentioned in previous seasons.

 

Giving it 8 rockets doesn't sound like a bad idea, but if you want it then I think it is even more necessary to give the 2x250s, not the 4x250. 

I like 2x250, maybe 6x100. If you force the Pe-2 to take the rockets then it can only take 2x250 for its bomb load, not 4x250.

[=KG76=flyus747]

4 hours ago, WokeUpDead said:

I like 2x250, maybe 6x100. If you force the Pe-2 to take the rockets then it can only take 2x250 for its bomb load, not 4x250.

6x100 is 6 tanks. I'd have this only accessible for Advanced Aircraft.

[-DED-22GvIAD_Koschey]

The 111 is a very good bomber.
The weapons are appropriate. It's very difficult to get close to him. Very good enemy firing sectors.
You need to be able to shoot back from the place of defensive shooters. Do not rely on AI bots, but shoot yourself. Training is necessary, and then it is a very difficult goal. The specifics of the work, this is a reset from the horizon. A very good plane. Learn to aim from the horizon and get an unforgettable experience.
Pe2 is faster, but according to the reset parameters, it can't reach 111.
Although in combat mode, they have almost the same speed before dropping. Pe-2 is faster, but the defense is weak. 111 always wins both when loading and when defending against the enemy.
Therefore, I believe that the Pe-2 in the basic version should be available only 4x250.
The rest of the downloads are only available when you receive a premium class.

[Pict]

On 5/29/2021 at 4:10 AM, =KG76=flyus747 said:

6x100 is 6 tanks. I'd have this only accessible for Advanced Aircraft.

 

Where do you go with this? How many bombs can an He-111 carry = how many tanks...??? It's more than 6 !

 

Additionally, the Pe-2 carries 10 rockets not 8 as you mentioned above. So using your logic, forcing the Pe-2 to carry rockets = 10 tanks  

 

The basic IL-2 that I've been flying can carry 6x100kgs bombs & 2x23mm canons...how many tanks do you think it can kill and has already killed?

 

Why are you guys so afraid of the Pe-2 killing tanks, when there have been almost no Pe-2's seen on TAW recently, yet the tank tally has always been in favor of the Red team.

 

There is a basic reason for this and it has nothing to do with any of the above and everything to do with the Blue teams inability to attack tanks as a team consistently.

 

================

 

I think this is getting very silly very quickly. You either want a bomber or you don't want a bomber. Bombers carry bombs and most of those who voted for having a basic bomber fly bombers and drop bombs. You may want to consider them when you attempt to cripple the whole reason they voted.

 

I did almost all of my previous time on TAW in bombers, specifically the Pe-2 and yet I voted to keep things as they are. This when I was only close to gaining a bomber once after many ground attack missions before my pilot was killed and I was back to square one..

 

That said, I'm still happy with what the TAW crew have put together for us as it has been interesting, challenging and at times downright frustrating, which sounds like war to me. Once you get past the idea that you are going to have an effect on the big picture on your own, the frustration dissipates and the fun begins.

 

Sure give the bomber career path a basic bomber as most of them will lose it first time out, either to flak or to fighters and little will change either way. But give up on the efforts to hobble the bomber of one team, just because the other bunch of guys don't fly as a team.

 

======================

 

This constant effort to move the goal posts by changing the rules in way that is deemed to be of benefit is a constant from the Blue team as far as I can remember. It even has a historic precedent for those who enjoyed the short lived Group B rallys of the early 1980's where Audi had the rules changed to allow their new Quattro to compete, as up to that point it was 2WD only...

 

...never did them any good though  

 

Spoiler

 

While this can be seen as a Blue on Blue engagement, Blue in TAW terms, at least to my mind is always Germany.

 

If you can suffer the presenters stereotypical English public schoolboy BS by ignoring it for what it is  , this is actually a good story and it has interviews with the important characters that were involved and they are the important voices worth listening to.

 

My money was on the Lancia at the time and still is, it's a beautiful machine, like a Macchi or a Pe-2, unlike the Audi, which looks a bit like a Stuka  

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Pict
Spelling, tweaking etc.

[FTC_Nerfection]

So...with the TAW forum and the discord now both closed, where are the TAW discussions taking place? Here, or will someone make a new forum thread?

[Pict]

1 hour ago, Nerfection said:

So...with the TAW forum and the discord now both closed, where are the TAW discussions taking place? Here, or will someone make a new forum thread?

 

Ah, that's a bit sad even if it's fully understandable. TAW Team Speak looks to be still functioning, catch you in there for a chin wag if you like. I would imagine the thread will be unlocked after a period to let the onslaught of silly questions cool off.

 

Until then, what ever you do, "don't mention the war"  

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Pict

[WokeUpDead]

6 hours ago, Nerfection said:

So...with the TAW forum and the discord now both closed, where are the TAW discussions taking place? Here, or will someone make a new forum thread?

Damn it guys, which one of you hurt LG’s feelings so bad that they closed the forum?

[=KG76=flyus747]

On 6/2/2021 at 1:40 AM, Pict said:

 

Where do you go with this? How many bombs can an He-111 carry = how many tanks...??? It's more than 6 !

 

Additionally, the Pe-2 carries 10 rockets not 8 as you mentioned above. So using your logic, forcing the Pe-2 to carry rockets = 10 tanks  

 

The basic IL-2 that I've been flying can carry 6x100kgs bombs & 2x23mm canons...how many tanks do you think it can kill and has already killed?

 

Why are you guys so afraid of the Pe-2 killing tanks, when there have been almost no Pe-2's seen on TAW recently, yet the tank tally has always been in favor of the Red team.

 

There is a basic reason for this and it has nothing to do with any of the above and everything to do with the Blue teams inability to attack tanks as a team consistently.

 

================

 

I think this is getting very silly very quickly. You either want a bomber or you don't want a bomber. Bombers carry bombs and most of those who voted for having a basic bomber fly bombers and drop bombs. You may want to consider them when you attempt to cripple the whole reason they voted.

 

I did almost all of my previous time on TAW in bombers, specifically the Pe-2 and yet I voted to keep things as they are. This when I was only close to gaining a bomber once after many ground attack missions before my pilot was killed and I was back to square one..

 

That said, I'm still happy with what the TAW crew have put together for us as it has been interesting, challenging and at times downright frustrating, which sounds like war to me. Once you get past the idea that you are going to have an effect on the big picture on your own, the frustration dissipates and the fun begins.

 

Sure give the bomber career path a basic bomber as most of them will lose it first time out, either to flak or to fighters and little will change either way. But give up on the efforts to hobble the bomber of one team, just because the other bunch of guys don't fly as a team.

 

======================

 

This constant effort to move the goal posts by changing the rules in way that is deemed to be of benefit is a constant from the Blue team as far as I can remember. It even has a historic precedent for those who enjoyed the short lived Group B rallys of the early 1980's where Audi had the rules changed to allow their new Quattro to compete, as up to that point it was 2WD only...

 

...never did them any good though  

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

While this can be seen as a Blue on Blue engagement, Blue in TAW terms, at least to my mind is always Germany.

 

If you can suffer the presenters stereotypical English public schoolboy BS by ignoring it for what it is  , this is actually a good story and it has interviews with the important characters that were involved and they are the important voices worth listening to.

 

My money was on the Lancia at the time and still is, it's a beautiful machine, like a Macchi or a Pe-2, unlike the Audi, which looks a bit like a Stuka  

 

Apologies, I meant 10 rockets for Pe2.
 

Now, whatever the basic pe2s loadout will be it must be able to carry more bombs than an IL2. What this means is that the basic IL2 we now have will also need to be tweaked. If the IL2 can carry 6x100 with 2x23mm then that must be nerfed to allow the Pe2s basic loadout to be greater, otherwise flying a basic pe2 to attack tanks is pointless. The IL2 can have a loadout enabling it to kill more tanks but in terms of bombs, the pe2 must carry more or heavier than IL2. Need I remind you that reconfiguring the IL2 line is also one of the tasks that BH wants this poll is to solve so if you have ideas there, please share with us.
 
111 vs Pe2

If you want to compare the 111 to the pe2, please do so in good faith. You can’t compare the 111 to the Pe2 under the same scope even though both fall under the very broad class of “bombers” we have in IL2 GB. They are quite different in many ways in terms of performance, defense, survivability, loadout, and as such, should be treated differently. 

Why no 6x100 for basic Pe2?

Now, the reason the ramifications of arming a basic pe2 with 6x100 can possibly equal 6 tank kills is because many players use pe2 to carpet bomb tanks. And with the pe2s survivability, many will even dare to stick around and cherry pick bomb the tanks and this is not hard to achieve since most German tanks are easy to kill. So the idea that a pe2 with 6x100 is going to kill 6 tanks is a high possibility. The same is not true for the 111. 

 

The pe2 aircraft was also historically repurposed as a heavy fighter (the 111 did not do this, not even close) and that was the Pe3. Therefore it goes without saying that the Pe2 shares more parallels with a heavy fighter aircraft like a 110 or a Mosquito or the Ju88C than it does as a traditional “bomber” like the 111, therefore the two “bombers” should not have equivalent load outs.

 

On the other hand, the reason the 111 ought to have 16x50 + 1x500 is because is incredibly slow, no armor, and poor defensive armament (aka low survivability) so anyone who has the patience or nerve to fly it should at least have a larger (larger than Pe2) payload to use. 
 

 

Lastly,

There is no need to start conspiring the idea that anyone here is biased for blue or red. That never gets anywhere so please keep that out of this topic. Entertaining such ideas will quickly derail the main purpose of this topic which is to work together and create a decent bomber (and IL2) experience for TAW players on both sides so that people will actually use them. If you have an idea, feel free to share and we can discuss it here. It is not conducive to the discussion if you just come here to pick apart ideas without solutions. 

 

 

On 6/2/2021 at 3:22 AM, Nerfection said:

So...with the TAW forum and the discord now both closed, where are the TAW discussions taking place? Here, or will someone make a new forum thread?

Not here.

Edited June 4, 2021 by =KG76=flyus747
resized the text

[-DED-22GvIAD_Koschey]

One thing I can't understand...
Why is the Pe-2 positioned together with the IL-2?
First, it's a bomber. The fact is that in the game it is used as a stormtrooper-this is the choice of players who, in pursuit of a personal stat, can not or do not want to fly in horizontal flight. Therefore, the reduction in the bomb load of the Pe-2 means that the Reds lose the bomber altogether. The fact that 111 is slower and more insecure is a hoax. Take the Pe-2 and see, it is as defenseless as the 111. So don't say it's better than 111.
Again, the bomber lines should be separated. That is, without premium attack aircraft and fighters. Also, attack aircraft and fighters should only have transport Pe-2. Only then will there be a more careful selection of aircraft lines.
It is incorrect to compare Pe-2 with Pe-3. Pe-3 is not implemented in the game. By the way, the IL-2 was also a fighter variant, then let's go down this path, deprive it of missiles and bombs. That would be absurd. Players must fly the planes that are implemented in the game. Don't make it up. We will take from them, we will add to them... There is no need to look for an imaginary balance. Use what you have.
The base load of the Pe-2 is 4x250. All other downloads are only on the primium ones. And to avoid the temptation, you need to remove the Pe-2 missiles, remove them completely. Let the attack tanks fly stormtroopers. The bombers have other ways of fighting.
I apologize for the machine translation.
Sincerely yours, Koschei.

Edited June 13, 2021 by 22GvIAD_Koschey

[Tortuga]

Проект интересный, но у меня вопрос к организаторам.  Летаю только на Пе-2 остальное не освоено (просто не моё). На проекте зарегистрировался как бомбардировщик. Если посмотреть на мой ангар не возникает ли вопрос: Как мне присутствовать на проекте?   Извините за иронию, но может быть чтобы летать на бомбардировщике, надо при регистрации позиционировать себя как истребителя и штурмовика?  

[E69_Falke_Wolf]

15 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Проект интересный, но у меня вопрос к организаторам.  Летаю только на Пе-2 остальное не освоено (просто не моё). На проекте зарегистрировался как бомбардировщик. Если посмотреть на мой ангар не возникает ли вопрос: Как мне присутствовать на проекте?   Извините за иронию, но может быть чтобы летать на бомбардировщике, надо при регистрации позиционировать себя как истребителя и штурмовика?  

Это был вопрос многих людей на протяжении всего этого выпуска.

Теперь TAW окончен. Может быть, в следующем выпуске (если таковой будет) можно будет летать на простых бомбардировщиках с самого начала.

Извините за перевод Google.