Changes and tweaks to career mode

[migmadmarine]

Ah, fair enough, though I mean a bit more like the old template style of attacking a large vehicle column, and making a few passes before going home. 

[LukeFF]

15 hours ago, migmadmarine said:

Ah, fair enough, though I mean a bit more like the old template style of attacking a large vehicle column, and making a few passes before going home. 

 

Gotcha.  Every now and then I have a look at these mission lists to see if they need to be updated, so perhaps this one needs another look. I'll put it on the to-do list. 

 

Thanks!

[LukeFF]

Hey guys, besides the updates made today to career mode, I also went through and revised II. and III./KG 76's missions for the Ar 234. Included in this are a handful of photo recon missions they flew at various times between January 1, 1945, and the end of their appearance on the Rhineland map in March 1945.

 

Additionally, the flyable P-47 squadrons on the Normandy map now use the olive drab paint scheme, to mix things up a bit. ?

[Yogiflight]

Some thoughts about ground attacks with the Hs 129. The way it currently works is, when you are 10km ahead of the target, the flight dives down from 1000m to 500m, flies straight for about five seconds, to climb back to 1000m, by turning left and flying a semicircle (or more) around the target and then starting with the attack. I also experienced the flight climbing straight over the target, which is the worst solution at a climbing speed of 200km/h, but this is the exception.

First point, why would you dive down 10km before reaching the target and climb back to altitude. In a distance of 10km you can't see a lot of a target under camouflage, so no need to dive down.

Second point, you don't fly around the target to say hello guys, here we are, so get ready to defend yourself. The manual @Eisenfaustus posted, clearly tells to try to stay undetected as long as possible and try to attack by surprise.

Third point, a few updates ago the developers changed the target assignement, so the first half of the flight attacks the AA defense and the second half attacks the target. I am not sure if this really was done with a four ship flight. In fact in game it is only the flightleader, who attacks the AA defense, but the way this runs is odd. When climbing back to 1000m he falls back, so the other two AI can attack the target first, before he flies his first attack on the AA defense. It should be the other way round, if you want him to attack the AA defense.

Last point, in artillery position attacks, we fly with six 50kg bombs. The flightleader flies two attacks on the AA defense and the keeps the last two bombs for the RTB. He circles over the target two or three times, while we attack the artillery guns, then we RTB. When there are no AA guns left, he definitely should attack the target, too.

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Some thoughts about ground attacks with the Hs 129. The way it currently works is, when you are 10km ahead of the target, the flight dives down from 1000m to 500m, flies straight for about five seconds, to climb back to 1000m, by turning left and flying a semicircle (or more) around the target and then starting with the attack. I also experienced the flight climbing straight over the target, which is the worst solution at a climbing speed of 200km/h, but this is the exception.

First point, why would you dive down 10km before reaching the target and climb back to altitude. In a distance of 10km you can't see a lot of a target under camouflage, so no need to dive down.

Second point, you don't fly around the target to say hello guys, here we are, so get ready to defend yourself. The manual @Eisenfaustus posted, clearly tells to try to stay undetected as long as possible and try to attack by surprise.

Third point, a few updates ago the developers changed the target assignement, so the first half of the flight attacks the AA defense and the second half attacks the target. I am not sure if this really was done with a four ship flight. In fact in game it is only the flightleader, who attacks the AA defense, but the way this runs is odd. When climbing back to 1000m he falls back, so the other two AI can attack the target first, before he flies his first attack on the AA defense. It should be the other way round, if you want him to attack the AA defense.

Last point, in artillery position attacks, we fly with six 50kg bombs. The flightleader flies two attacks on the AA defense and the keeps the last two bombs for the RTB. He circles over the target two or three times, while we attack the artillery guns, then we RTB. When there are no AA guns left, he definitely should attack the target, too.

 

Per the word from the developers, things like this are probably going to stay the same until they can be looked at again as part of the new project. 

[Yogiflight]

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Per the word from the developers, things like this are probably going to stay the same until they can be looked at again as part of the new project. 

Yes, I thought so.

[Yogiflight]

Shouldn't the ground attack missions for the Bf 109 E7 and the FW 190 A5 Schlachtflieger be 'Attack' missions like for the Hs 129 and the IL-2 Schlachtflieger instead of 'Bombing' missions like for the Bf 110 Zerstörer? That way the mission altitude would be 1000m instead of 1500m, but especially the flight would fly strafing runs after the bomb drops instead of dropping the bombs and immediately flying back to the base.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Yogiflight said:

Shouldn't the ground attack missions for the Bf 109 E7 and the FW 190 A5 Schlachtflieger be 'Attack' missions like for the Hs 129 and the IL-2 Schlachtflieger instead of 'Bombing' missions like for the Bf 110 Zerstörer? That way the mission altitude would be 1000m instead of 1500m, but especially the flight would fly strafing runs after the bomb drops instead of dropping the bombs and immediately flying back to the base.

 

Not sure - what was the doctrine in the Luftwaffe with that? The thing I've read is that by 1944, Jabo Fw 190s would drop their bombs on their target and then hi-tail it back to friendly lines at high speed before Soviet fighters could intercept.

 

Speaking of which, this was posted recently: 

 

[Yogiflight]

19 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Not sure - what was the doctrine in the Luftwaffe with that? The thing I've read is that by 1944, Jabo Fw 190s would drop their bombs on their target and then hi-tail it back to friendly lines at high speed before Soviet fighters could intercept.

At that time, with the air superiority being on Allied side, they didn't have any chance to do more. But according to the manual @Eisenfaustusposted, Schlachtflieger attacked enemy front troops with bombs, canons and machineguns, and artillery units, when travelling with bombs, but when in firing positon, with the guns. Of course this manual was for the Hs 129, but I don't think the slow Hs 129 strafed ground targets and the much faster Bf 109s and FW 190s didn't.

I think this changed at the time, the Allied side won air superiority, so in game the second phase of the Battle of Kuban, 'Sky over Krymskaya'. Germans, more than once, had to adapt their fighting tactics. And of course at the time of BON and even more BOBP, the German fighter bombers had to leave the target area as soon as possible.

Maybe anyone has some real information about this.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Yogiflight said:

At that time, with the air superiority being on Allied side, they didn't have any chance to do more. But according to the manual @Eisenfaustusposted, Schlachtflieger attacked enemy front troops with bombs, canons and machineguns, and artillery units, when travelling with bombs, but when in firing positon, with the guns. Of course this manual was for the Hs 129, but I don't think the slow Hs 129 strafed ground targets and the much faster Bf 109s and FW 190s didn't.

I think this changed at the time, the Allied side won air superiority, so in game the second phase of the Battle of Kuban, 'Sky over Krymskaya'. Germans, more than once, had to adapt their fighting tactics. And of course at the time of BON and even more BOBP, the German fighter bombers had to leave the target area as soon as possible.

Maybe anyone has some real information about this.

 

Yes, I'm definitely open to changing yet, but it would really be helpful if there were some primary sources out there saying how the fighter-bomber schlacht units attacked ground targets up through the middle of 1943. This is especially the case for the 109s, given how less resistant they were to ground fire. 

[Yogiflight]

On 9/12/2023 at 10:44 PM, LukeFF said:

This is especially the case for the 109s, given how less resistant they were to ground fire.

Good point, but on the other side the ground attack version had additional armor. With the higher speed and the not armored engines of the Hs 129, I would always prefer the 109 for strafing ground targets.

But it would of course be good to have some sources on that.

[Yogiflight]

On 9/12/2023 at 1:22 AM, LukeFF said:

The thing I've read is that by 1944, Jabo Fw 190s would drop their bombs on their target and then hi-tail it back to friendly lines at high speed before Soviet fighters could intercept.

And the same was true for the Battle of Normandy. I just started a fighter career in the second phase, so with the landing. We attacked the beach and my flight was staying there for several minutes, and always flying with pretty low speed, given the big amount of Allied Flak and fighters around.

A second issue is, the Flak of the destroyers rarely shoot at us at all. We can overfly them and they keep only shooting at the beach.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Yogiflight

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

And the same was true for the Battle of Normandy. I just started a fighter career in the second phase, so with the landing. We attacked the beach and my flight was staying there for several minutes, and always flying with pretty low speed, given the big amount of Allied Flak and fighters around.

A second issue is, the Flak of the destroyers rarely shoot at us at all. We can overfly them and they keep only shooting at the beach.

 

The first issue is probably due to the way the mission template is written; with the second one, I have noticed that too, so I will pass along a report to the team.

[LukeFF]

Hey all, besides the updates made to the career mode today, I updated a few things:

• The new skins for the Hell Hawks campaign are also now integrated into the Rhineland phase of career mode from September 1944 - January 1945.
• There is a new skin for the P-51Ds of the 401st Fighter Squadron (near the end of March 1945)
• The two Spitfire Vb artillery spotting squadrons also now will occasionally fly transport escort missions.
• The B-26 skin assignments for each squadron were updated according to new information provided by @Jaegermeister
• There are new D-Day skins for the P-47D-22.

[Varibraun]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

Hey all, besides the updates made to the career mode today, I updated a few things:

 

Luke, as a mostly SP, I really appreciate these, and especially all of the work and research you have devoted to the career modes over all these years helping getting it up and running for both wars. 

 

Now, from "they are never satisfied" category - I know you just said there are more improvements coming, so should we hold out any hope for more "core" code changes for immersion additions?  For example: Persistent squadrons allowing a new player pilot to join when an ironman is KIA/MIA; non-standard enemy A/I levels to potentially include some ace level opponents; the ability to take leave and/or transfer squadrons allowing more time to pass in the campaign, or anything along these lines in addition to the new missions and background you have given us?

[LukeFF]

2 minutes ago, Varibraun said:

Now, from "they are never satisfied" category - I know you just said there are more improvements coming, so should we hold out any hope for more "core" code changes for immersion additions?  For example: Persistent squadrons allowing a new player pilot to join when an ironman is KIA/MIA; non-standard enemy A/I levels to potentially include some ace level opponents; the ability to take leave and/or transfer squadrons allowing more time to pass in the campaign, or anything along these lines in addition to the new missions and background you have given us?

 

No worries. ? I have mentioned many of those things to the developers, and while they agree those are good things to be added, I get the sense such things are going to be planned for a much bigger update, i.e., the new title that's yet to be announced. Seeing that new people are being brought in to work on mission design and such, I have a lot of hope you'll see the sorts of things you want at some point. 

[Varibraun]

3 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Seeing that new people are being brought in to work on mission design and such, I have a lot of hope you'll see the sorts of things you want at some point. 

 

Exciting potentials...thank you!!

[Yogiflight]

I started a career on the Stalingrad map, flying the Bf 109 F4 for the I./JG 3. I am not sure, if two out of three mission a day, being transport aircraft escort, aren't a bit too many.

But apart from that, after leaving the Ju 52s, we RTB with a speed of just 340 km/h, instead of the 440 km/h (450 km/h according to the map) cruising speed of the 109 F4.

And in my last mission, we did this in column formation for 87 km.

Bf 109 traffic aircraft escort mission.zip

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Yogiflight said:

I started a career on the Stalingrad map, flying the Bf 109 F4 for the I./JG 3. I am not sure, if two out of three mission a day, being transport aircraft escort, aren't a bit too many.

But apart from that, after leaving the Ju 52s, we RTB with a speed of just 340 km/h, instead of the 440 km/h (450 km/h according to the map) cruising speed of the 109 F4.

And in my last mission, we did this in column formation for 87 km.

Bf 109 traffic aircraft escort mission.zip 299.1 kB · 0 downloads

 

Thanks, I'll pass it on.

[Yogiflight]

When you fly a ground attack aircraft escort mission in a German fighter career on the East Front, you will escort six ground attack aircrafts. When you fly a ground attack career, your flight is flying with only four aircrafts. So the numbers in escort missions should be aligned.

 

Last night I was flying a ground attack aircraft escort mission with the Bf 109 F4 for the I./JG3 and after the ground attack aircrafts were decimated to just two aircrafts, the mission was counted as failed and the flight path was changed to this

I got directed straight to my base without a heading, instead of having the heading to the airfield Kumovka, square 1118-3, to which we had to escort the two last Hs 129s

[LukeFF]

26 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

When you fly a ground attack aircraft escort mission in a German fighter career on the East Front, you will escort six ground attack aircrafts. When you fly a ground attack career, your flight is flying with only four aircrafts. So the numbers in escort missions should be aligned.

 

Last night I was flying a ground attack aircraft escort mission with the Bf 109 F4 for the I./JG3 and after the ground attack aircrafts were decimated to just two aircrafts, the mission was counted as failed and the flight path was changed to this

I got directed straight to my base without a heading, instead of having the heading to the airfield Kumovka, square 1118-3, to which we had to escort the two last Hs 129s

 

Thanks - I'll pass along the report.

[Mtnbiker1998]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:34 PM, LukeFF said:

Hey all, besides the updates made to the career mode today, I updated a few things:

• The new skins for the Hell Hawks campaign are also now integrated into the Rhineland phase of career mode from September 1944 - January 1945.
• There is a new skin for the P-51Ds of the 401st Fighter Squadron (near the end of March 1945)
• The two Spitfire Vb artillery spotting squadrons also now will occasionally fly transport escort missions.
• The B-26 skin assignments for each squadron were updated according to new information provided by @Jaegermeister
• There are new D-Day skins for the P-47D-22.

I can't overstate how happy it makes me to see more squadron skins getting implemented in the career mode. Bring em all on!! Love to see the colorful variety in the allied aircraft.

[Yogiflight]

I just had a mission, in which my pilot got wounded. It would be cool, if an ambulance car would move to your aircraft or at least park at the aircrafts parking position.

[LukeFF]

On 10/6/2023 at 1:46 PM, Mtnbiker1998 said:

I can't overstate how happy it makes me to see more squadron skins getting implemented in the career mode. Bring em all on!! Love to see the colorful variety in the allied aircraft.

 

Thanks! There were two other things I forgot about: first, all the American and British squadrons on the Normandy and Rhineland maps now change their invasion stripe pattern on different days (the pre-D-Day changeover remains the same). This is because, in reality, squadrons took it upon themselves to reduce the visibility of their D-Day stripes, typically because they felt they were doing more harm than good (giant black and white stripes make it really easy to tell friend from foe ?). The mandatory dates seen in official Allied HQ orders were more or less a case where the orders were catching up with reality. So, up to a given date, you'll see all the planes with the same invasion stripe pattern and then, one-by-one, units will start to change to a new pattern.

 

Similarly, Soviet units will now change from green paint schemes to gray ones at slightly random dates starting in August 1943. The order for all planes to be painted in gray only applied to new planes coming out of the factory or those in repair facilities, so it was some time before all the planes in a given regiment were painted in a gray pattern.

[BladeMeister]

10 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Thanks! There were two other things I forgot about: first, all the American and British squadrons on the Normandy and Rhineland maps now change their invasion stripe pattern on different days (the pre-D-Day changeover remains the same). This is because, in reality, squadrons took it upon themselves to reduce the visibility of their D-Day stripes, typically because they felt they were doing more harm than good (giant black and white stripes make it really easy to tell friend from foe ?). The mandatory dates seen in official Allied HQ orders were more or less a case where the orders were catching up with reality. So, up to a given date, you'll see all the planes with the same invasion stripe pattern and then, one-by-one, units will start to change to a new pattern.

 

Similarly, Soviet units will now change from green paint schemes to gray ones at slightly random dates starting in August 1943. The order for all planes to be painted in gray only applied to new planes coming out of the factory or those in repair facilities, so it was some time before all the planes in a given regiment were painted in a gray pattern.

So if I am understanding this correctly these paint scheme changes will happen automatically in Box throughout the time frames you outlined? Or am I misreading this?

 

S!Blade<><

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, BladeMeister said:

So if I am understanding this correctly these paint scheme changes will happen automatically in Box throughout the time frames you outlined? Or am I misreading this?

 

S!Blade<><

 

Yes, there is a skin config file for each battle in career mode that determines when and what skin every unit uses.

[Yogiflight]

On 10/5/2023 at 2:55 PM, Yogiflight said:

But apart from that, after leaving the Ju 52s, we RTB with a speed of just 340 km/h, instead of the 440 km/h (450 km/h according to the map) cruising speed of the 109 F4.

And in my last mission, we did this in column formation for 87 km.

OK, it seems RTBing in column formation is bound to the way the Ju 52s deliver their cargo. Out of five transport escort missions, two were cargo droppings and in these two missions we returned in column formation.

 

Another thing. In the second cargo drop escort mission, we escorted the Ju 52s back to Chernishkovskiy. Why not to the airfield of Oblivskaya next to it. It is a base of Ju 52s, as you can see in the screenshot

[BladeMeister]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, there is a skin config file for each battle in career mode that determines when and what skin every unit uses.

Awesome. Little details like this just deepen the immersion in GB. I may have to start GB online again and try a career now and see what has changed over the last year or so.

 

S!Blade<><

[Yogiflight]

I am currently flying a fighter career for the I./JG 3 on the Stalingrad map. At the end of the second phase, the last three days are without missions, and when the third phase starts, you are based at Pitomnok instead of Tuzov, and flying the G2 instead of the F4. What I am missing is a transfer mission to Pitomnik, and it would be a nice idea, I think, if the change to the new 109 model would be in the game as well. You could have a transfer mission with the old aircraft model to a rearward airfield, maybe with parked 109s, and the next day have a transfer mission to the new (in careers without an airfield change, the old one) airfield with the new aircraft model. If your squadron gets new pilots, too, you would fly to the rearward airfield with the decimated squadron and return with the refilled squadron.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Yogiflight said:

I am currently flying a fighter career for the I./JG 3 on the Stalingrad map. At the end of the second phase, the last three days are without missions, and when the third phase starts, you are based at Pitomnok instead of Tuzov, and flying the G2 instead of the F4. What I am missing is a transfer mission to Pitomnik, and it would be a nice idea, I think, if the change to the new 109 model would be in the game as well. You could have a transfer mission with the old aircraft model to a rearward airfield, maybe with parked 109s, and the next day have a transfer mission to the new (in careers without an airfield change, the old one) airfield with the new aircraft model. If your squadron gets new pilots, too, you would fly to the rearward airfield with the decimated squadron and return with the refilled squadron.

 

I just had a look - that is because I./JG 3 was relocated to Novocherkassk after September 7 before returning on September 24.

 

The other idea is good, but I dunno how doable it would be at this point.

[Yogiflight]

18 hours ago, LukeFF said:

I just had a look - that is because I./JG 3 was relocated to Novocherkassk after September 7 before returning on September 24.

Of course I hadn't noticed, that it wasn't the first day of the third phase, we had our first mission with the G2. The long time span surely can be explained with the converting to the G2 and the instruction on the G2. So transfer mission to the rearward airfield would be on September 8 and the transfer to Pitomnik on September 24. As Novocherkassk isn't on the map, Tatsinskaya or Morozovskaya should do it. I think it would add to the story, career mode is thought to tell.

The same could be done for other squadrons as well, when converting to a new aircraft model/version or getting a new aircraft model/version added.

But if it is not doable, then it is how it is.

[Yogiflight]

I had a look into the Kuban career of the Hs 129, based at Anapa. I was especially interested in the second phase 'Sky over Krymskaya'. I didn't find a single 'Defending troops support' mission in the area of Krymskaya, although, at least in the first days, this was the absolute focus of the Russian counterattack. Especially the 'Panzerschlachtgeschwader' should be attacking there all day long. In that area Russian IL-2s should support the advancing Russian ground troops and German Schlachtflieger should attack the advancing Russian tanks.

Instead I had a 'Defending troops support' mission south of Novorossiysk, where I detroyed a KV-1. According to the introduction of the first phase, there were only light tanks in the Russian bridgehead, but mainly we should have attacked tanks at Krymskaya.

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

I had a look into the Kuban career of the Hs 129, based at Anapa. I was especially interested in the second phase 'Sky over Krymskaya'. I didn't find a single 'Defending troops support' mission in the area of Krymskaya, although, at least in the first days, this was the absolute focus of the Russian counterattack. Especially the 'Panzerschlachtgeschwader' should be attacking there all day long. In that area Russian IL-2s should support the advancing Russian ground troops and German Schlachtflieger should attack the advancing Russian tanks.

Instead I had a 'Defending troops support' mission south of Novorossiysk, where I detroyed a KV-1. According to the introduction of the first phase, there were only light tanks in the Russian bridgehead, but mainly we should have attacked tanks at Krymskaya.

 

I'll ask about it, thanks. Probably just a situation where the templates need updating.

[LukeFF]

One change for Rhineland that isn't in the 5.107 change log: on the German side, the mission frequency for player-flyable fighter formations has been reduced starting with Chapter 2. This is in keeping with the much lower readiness rate of the Luftwaffe that really started happening in the fall of 1944.

[Guest deleted@219798]

I'm flying a Jasta 6 career starting in April 1918. The last mission I flew was some time in May. I was expecting our Fokker Dr1's to soon be replaced by DVII's. Next mission it's suddenly August with announcement that both DVII and DVIII have been added to replace Dr1. Next mission is airfield relocation. First combat mission 14/8/1918. Only choice of DVIII, no DVIII. Why the jump in time with no DVII available before DVIII?

[LukeFF]

11 hours ago, kestrel444x500 said:

I'm flying a Jasta 6 career starting in April 1918. The last mission I flew was some time in May. I was expecting our Fokker Dr1's to soon be replaced by DVII's. Next mission it's suddenly August with announcement that both DVII and DVIII have been added to replace Dr1. Next mission is airfield relocation. First combat mission 14/8/1918. Only choice of DVIII, no DVIII. Why the jump in time with no DVII available before DVIII?

 

I'd have to look and see how that unit is set up in the career files. I'll let the career guys know as well. Thanks!

 

EDIT: what might be happening is the needed airfields for Jasta 6 are currently not on the map, but in any case I've asked about this internally.

 

EDIT2: Okay, yes, it is what I thought: the airfields Jasta 6 used in the summer of 1918 are not yet on the map. 

[Guest deleted@219798]

3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

I'd have to look and see how that unit is set up in the career files. I'll let the career guys know as well. Thanks!

 

EDIT: what might be happening is the needed airfields for Jasta 6 are currently not on the map, but in any case I've asked about this internally.

 

EDIT2: Okay, yes, it is what I thought: the airfields Jasta 6 used in the summer of 1918 are not yet on the map. 

Thanks for the quick reply and explanation.

Edited October 31, 2023 by kestrel444x500

[PhilthySpud]

G’day @LukeFF, any chance you could please give us some more details about the new career mission types in the latest release?

 

Thanks and happy Christmas 

[LukeFF]

Ground Forces Request is the following (quoted from a dev because it's easier):

 

Bombing targets far from the front lines (railway station, troops concetration, hw art, columns)

 

Or

 

Patrolling along the front line, then attack a front-line target (firing point, at-art)

 

Or

 

Firing point attack, then covering a friendly FP from enemy attack-planes. 
 

So there are three variants. Your specific target will be relayed to you once airborne. 

 

Visual Control Post are the Typhoon "Cab Rank" missions where rocket-armed squadrons will be assigned a point target near the front lines, such as a defensive position. They should be marked with smoke. 

[Yogiflight]

@LukeFF so not really something for the Hs 129?