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Simple tool to check your six


J2_NobiWan
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juanitkm

Thank you so much.  can axes be used instead of buttons?  I think the joystick shaft that is used for the rudder could work very well and would be easy to access, for those who use pedals of course.

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J2_NobiWan
Posted (edited)
On 8/26/2021 at 5:39 PM, JG1_Greif said:

S! @J2_NobiWan,

 

Because of holidays and other priorities I hadn't come around to trying this experimental version but this week I had some time to give it a go.

 

I still need to experiment a bit with the best values but so far I am really quite positive about this experimental build. The activation angle approach seems to be a very workable solution to strike a compromise between 1 to 1 in game and IRL head movement for most of the time while making it also easy to watch your tail easily when you need it. I have 0 problems with nausea myself btw. Some observations and random considerations:

 

  • I found that I need to reset my view much, MUCH less often than when I use the non experimental version. I suspect that when pressing and releasing the manual "add x degrees left/right" buttons in the non-experimental version, the view can end up a couple of degrees off compared to what it was before, maybe because of head momvement during the adding/substracting the angles when the button is pressed or released. In any case, I find that my view comes back nicely, a big plus.
  • From a useability point of view: the non-experimental version absolutely great already (I insist), however it is especially nice to have a continious, uninterrupted  movement path from the view straight forward in the cockpit to a look backwards. The jumps because of the "add x degrees button" do cost some extra time when I need to link the view from before the jump to my view afterwards. The smoother transistion in the experimental version helps to keep the SA one continuous total overview and less a composition of several viewpoints that I have to stitch together in my head, so that is a plus as well.
  • Even though the movement is obviously very much smoother than in the non experimental version, it still strikes me that once over the activation angle, head movement still is somewhat choppy/grainy outside the activation angle which is striking and somewhat less comfortable. It's almost like the head angles get rounded to individual degrees, as if the output variable of the amplified head angle is an interger instead of a float. I think it would be an improvement if it were possible to preserve smooth head movement in all situations, be it inside or over the activation angle.
  • You added a very nice quality of life functionality to the manual add x degree rotation buttons, i.e. the automatic addition of some L/R and forward translation. I do get the impression that this functionally is absent in the experimental version, is that correct? I notice I do end up looking at head rests regularly 😄 In any case, this is a great feature and I understand that adding this to the experimental version may be a challenge because everything needs to be smooth, so a solution would need to be found for adding these translations in a smooth manner as well. This would in my opinion improve this experimental version, but maybe this isn't the proverbial low hanging fruit.
  • I haven't decided yet which version works best for me and I still have experimenting to do with more planes. In case you consider further developing the experimental version: having the manual button besides the automatic amplification would make it easier to compare both effects, even if it would be a hard coded choice to have only one at the same time if that makes things easier from a coding point of view. I wouldn't mind having both effects active at the same time, it depends on what's easier to implement.

I hope this is feedback that you can use. Feel free to use any or none of it: VRNS as is is already an amazing tool for which I ame very grateful. Do let me know if you have any questions.

 

Thank you JG1_Greif for the good feedback!

Yes, the accelerated movement is definately a bit less smooth than the normal movement. This is because the sophisticated default smoothing algorithms of the headset do not work very well when they are getting tricket in a "non physical" way. I don't think that anything can be done about this.

Ultimately everything should be in one single version, button activated, stepwise auto and smooth auto, including the L/R and fwd motion. But this will have to wait a while since I'm soon moving house and my spare time wil be rather limited in the next few weeks/months.   

 

On 8/27/2021 at 2:08 AM, WWSitttingDuck said:

Terrific work, thank you.  Your tool is bringing me back to VR.

 

Sorry if this has been already asked, but might this work in pitch as well as yaw at sometime?

 

Unfortunatly not possible (to my knowledge) with the current SteamVR/OpenVR.

 

On 8/28/2021 at 4:09 PM, juanitkm said:

Thank you so much.  can axes be used instead of buttons?  I think the joystick shaft that is used for the rudder could work very well and would be easy to access, for those who use pedals of course.

 

You should get this working with the help of the Joystick Gremlin app.

But since this has been asked a few times already I'll put it on my todo list...

 

Cheers, J2_NobiWan

Edited by J2_NobiWan
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sandmonkee

I just discovered this and I'm looking forward to trying it out in DCS with my Quest 2. Just curious, I usually play using the link cable and the Oculus API, so no Steam in the mix anywhere. Will this work without Steam? 

Thanks! 

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[Pb]RedeyeStorm

@J2_NobiWan I am an Index user and so have some issues in DCS. I am extensivly using your program in Il2 and I made an observation that mayby of assistance. Every time I finish playing Il2 I noticed that in SteamVR the center of the grid (standart picture with the mountains and the grid plain) is on my right base station. It sits slightly to my right and high. So when I enter the SteamVR Home I am below groundlevel.

 

When I am in the cockpit of any il 2 plane and your tool is activated for the first time my position corresponts to this position. So slightly below the plane and to the right. The major difference is is that my viewpoint is also 180 degrees turned around. I am looking to the rear of my plane. It is the same position I have in DCS. Pressing the recenter button and all is wel in Il2 but somehow does nothing in DCS.

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J2_NobiWan

Thank you @[Pb]RedeyeStorm

for your relevant observations! They might prove useful when I find the time again to work on VRNS. This will however take a few weeks...

 

Cheers, J2_NobiWan

On 9/10/2021 at 9:45 PM, sandmonkee said:

I just discovered this and I'm looking forward to trying it out in DCS with my Quest 2. Just curious, I usually play using the link cable and the Oculus API, so no Steam in the mix anywhere. Will this work without Steam? 

Thanks! 

VRNS requires SteamVR to work. I am using skatezilla's DCS updater / starter app to run DCS, as it allows to simply choose between Oculus and SteamVR.

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sandmonkee
41 minutes ago, J2_NobiWan said:

VRNS requires SteamVR to work. I am using skatezilla's DCS updater / starter app to run DCS, as it allows to simply choose between Oculus and SteamVR

Thanks for the response, I expected as much unfortunately. I've been tying to avoid playing through steam since the oculus app has to be open anyways in order to play via link. May I ask, do you find much of a performance hit using Steam plus Oculus at the same time? Also, is there any way to use ASW in Steam? I currently have my game running buttery smooth on a 1080 TI using the Oculus Tray Tool to manage the settings via link, I'm not sure I could give that up, even if it means a sore neck! 😀

Thanks! 

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TCW_DirtyMike0330

Love this program, thanks for all the hard work @J2_NobiWan!

 

Has anyone had an issue where, after checking your six and returning your view forward, you have to recenter your view again? I don’t know if it’s my headset tracking (Reverb G2) or a setting I can change in VRNS, but it seems like whenever I check my six a couple times quickly, the originally set center view does not stay locked and requires re-adjustment. 

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On 9/13/2021 at 7:24 PM, TCW_DirtyMike0330 said:

Love this program, thanks for all the hard work @J2_NobiWan!

 

Has anyone had an issue where, after checking your six and returning your view forward, you have to recenter your view again? I don’t know if it’s my headset tracking (Reverb G2) or a setting I can change in VRNS, but it seems like whenever I check my six a couple times quickly, the originally set center view does not stay locked and requires re-adjustment. 

 

In my Reverb G2 I am in the habit of re-centering my VR view very frequently, and I do it unconsciously with a button mapped below my pinky finger.  I especially need to re-center my VR view if I've been rotating my view a lot in VRNS, so I think it's just something we often have to do in combat flight sims where we can see if we are centered in our gun sight, so have a constant reminder if we are not centered where we want to be.

Edited by Charlo-VR
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TCW_DirtyMike0330
19 minutes ago, Charlo-VR said:

 

In my Reverb G2 I am in the habit of re-centering my VR view very frequently, and I do it unconsciously with a button mapped below my pinky finger.  I especially need to re-center my VR view if I've been rotating my view a lot in VRNS, so I think it's just something we often have to do in combat flight sims where we can see if we are centered in our gun sight, so have a constant reminder if we are not centered where we want to be.

Ok thanks, just wanted to make sure it wasn’t just me! I have the same muscle memory for constantly re-centering after a lot of movement. A small price to pay for not breaking our necks in a dogfight 😄

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SvAF/F16_WhiteMoose

I get this error message when the program crashes.
I tried different version, actually I tried all of them.
It works a while then it crashes I restart it works a while than it crashes. Sometimes it will work longer sometimes shorter.

I tried following this guide but the problem remains, Please folks help me.

image0.png

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J2_NobiWan
On 9/16/2021 at 3:11 AM, TCW_DirtyMike0330 said:

Ok thanks, just wanted to make sure it wasn’t just me! I have the same muscle memory for constantly re-centering after a lot of movement. A small price to pay for not breaking our necks in a dogfight 😄

Actually I had to recenter VR view all the time even before introducing VRNS, probably because of me

 

shifting on my seat because of sitting on it for too long. :)So I didn't notice much of a difference. But it is totally possible that VRNS is introducing some unwanted discrepancies. I'll have to take a close look to the logic/math anyway once I have a little more free time on my hands.

 

35 minutes ago, SvAF/F16_WhiteMoose said:

I get this error message when the program crashes.
I tried different version, actually I tried all of them.
It works a while then it crashes I restart it works a while than it crashes. Sometimes it will work longer sometimes shorter.

I tried following this guide but the problem remains, Please folks help me.

This is the same error that @Kaiza was having a few weeks ago. The problem is that one of your joysticks/input devices is (temporary?) loosing connection and VRNS throws an exception while trying to scan that device for button presses.  I should stop VRNS from crashing if that is happening (and will do that in the next version) but the real culprit is that one of your joysticks is loosing connection...

Edited by J2_NobiWan
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SCG_Redcloud111

I am not sure if this was an issue or not, but I just tested War Thunder because someone told me they made improvements to spotting (distant aircraft no longer look like huge blobs from across the map). Anyway, Necksaver is now working in WT. I chose seated mode and when I snap turned it kept me in the proper position rather than throwing me ten feet above the aircraft (which was what happened every time I had tried before). So, that is great.

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This looks like a great add-on & I had it working in its simple form but I wanted the full auto rotation feature so I'd really save my neck  ( literally & figuratively.) forgive me if this has been asked before but what is the simplest way to implement it ? I tried to follow your instructions but I don't think its giving me the full "look around " that it is designed to do.I've checked the box for autorotation but doing anything else mystifies me .Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks!

neck.jpg

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TCW_DirtyMike0330
1 hour ago, Blitzen said:

This looks like a great add-on & I had it working in its simple form but I wanted the full auto rotation feature so I'd really save my neck  ( literally & figuratively.) forgive me if this has been asked before but what is the simplest way to implement it ? I tried to follow your instructions but I don't think its giving me the full "look around " that it is designed to do.I've checked the box for autorotation but doing anything else mystifies me .Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks!

neck.jpg

This is what I use

vrns.jpg

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This is of passing interest : in developement VR and its views over at CloD:

Vid: 

 

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3 hours ago, TCW_DirtyMike0330 said:

This is what I use

vrns.jpg

I noticed the change in the VRNS you have to -75 degrees wonder how you did this ? Also in the "Autoration "section you have "95 "under "act" in Hold Button section as I have but you've eliminated all the 'Hold" sections below it ...why? How?Also, forgive me what does "Hold " mean anyhow? Do I need to somehow desiginate a key button for it to somehow activate same?

Thanks for your patience.

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TCW_DirtyMike0330
Just now, Blitzen said:

I noticed the change in the VRNS you have to -75 degrees wonder how you did this ? Also in the "Autoration "section you have "95 "under "act" in Hold Button section as I have but you've eliminated all the 'Hold" sections below it ...why? How?Also, forgive me what does "Hold " mean anyhow? Do I need to somehow desiginate a key button for it to somehow activate same?

Thanks for your patience.

The -75 is just the direction my headset was facing when I took the screenshot - it is usually 0 and will change degrees depending on which way you are facing, so don’t pay any attention to that :)

 

I eliminated all the extra lines because, as far as I can tell, they aren’t necessary (I’m not 100% sure on why there are so many by default, but it works fine for me with just the 1 line. Maybe they are just to give people the option of having multiple autorotation profiles). 
 

Hold buttons are not necessary for the auto rotation, they are optional and just let you assign a button to hold your current position and basically pause the auto rotation if you wanted to prevent the view from snapping back forward or something. 

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36 minutes ago, TCW_DirtyMike0330 said:

The -75 is just the direction my headset was facing when I took the screenshot - it is usually 0 and will change degrees depending on which way you are facing, so don’t pay any attention to that :)

 

I eliminated all the extra lines because, as far as I can tell, they aren’t necessary (I’m not 100% sure on why there are so many by default, but it works fine for me with just the 1 line. Maybe they are just to give people the option of having multiple autorotation profiles). 
 

Hold buttons are not necessary for the auto rotation, they are optional and just let you assign a button to hold your current position and basically pause the auto rotation if you wanted to prevent the view from snapping back forward or something. 

Thanks!!I did figure out how to change the values of Hold Button 1 , but I'm getting an "Invalid " message for the first change to "95"(?). Also how did you get rid of the extra "Hold "lines?

Edited by Blitzen
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5 minutes ago, TCW_DirtyMike0330 said:

No problem- just highlight them and hit delete on your keyboard. 

Gotc ha...but "95" on top line is showing up as "Invalid" number...🙃

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TCW_DirtyMike0330
Just now, Blitzen said:

Gotc ha...but "95" on top line is showing up as "Invalid" number...🙃

It’s invalid in relation to whatever is to the right of it in the line, so make sure you erase the numbers to the right before you type the 95 in the first box. Or make sure everything to the right of the 95 is less than 95 first. Just play around with the numbers until you can get that first 95 in there.

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I have problems running this app with Virtual Desktop for my Quest 2.  It seems VD and VR necksafer cannot run together?

 

I tried to run IL2 from steamVR (although you are supposed to run IL2 from VD directly) but it crashes if I am running VR necksafer.

 

Anyone had a success with VD and VR necksafer?

On 9/12/2021 at 11:46 AM, J2_NobiWan said:

Thank you @[Pb]RedeyeStorm

for your relevant observations! They might prove useful when I find the time again to work on VRNS. This will however take a few weeks...

 

Cheers, J2_NobiWan

VRNS requires SteamVR to work. I am using skatezilla's DCS updater / starter app to run DCS, as it allows to simply choose between Oculus and SteamVR.

 

Do you run VD?  Please see my question below but VD and your utility seems to be mutually exclusive.

 

Secondly, for DCS, do you run your utility via Skatezilla's updater before you run DCS?

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J2_NobiWan
11 hours ago, TCW_DirtyMike0330 said:

I eliminated all the extra lines because, as far as I can tell, they aren’t necessary (I’m not 100% sure on why there are so many by default, but it works fine for me with just the 1 line. Maybe they are just to give people the option of having multiple autorotation profiles).

You can enter a line for every "step" you want to have with the autorotation.

I use additional 10 deg for every real 10 deg starting with 90 deg. This makes the transition a bit smoother and it's easier to keep an eye on distant contacts during rotation. Use the "add" button to add a line and it gives a new line with valid entries as a starting point which you can then edit.

Pressing the "graph" button on the top right of the table opens a graphical representation of what your values are doing. This might help understanding the whole process.

 

11 hours ago, Blitzen said:

Thanks!!I did figure out how to change the values of Hold Button 1 , but I'm getting an "Invalid " message for the first change to "95"(?). Also how did you get rid of the extra "Hold "lines?

The Hold buttons do not correlate with the autorotation lines...

You can delete Lines with the "del" button.

 

11 hours ago, Blitzen said:

Gotc ha...but "95" on top line is showing up as "Invalid" number...🙃

Have a look at the first post (More Info on the autorotation values: ) to understand the values and what they are used for.

 

 

11 hours ago, TCW_DirtyMike0330 said:

It’s invalid in relation to whatever is to the right of it in the line, so make sure you erase the numbers to the right before you type the 95 in the first box. Or make sure everything to the right of the 95 is less than 95 first. Just play around with the numbers until you can get that first 95 in there.

Good advise. 👍

 

8 hours ago, gamerdoc7 said:

I have problems running this app with Virtual Desktop for my Quest 2.  It seems VD and VR necksafer cannot run together?

 

I tried to run IL2 from steamVR (although you are supposed to run IL2 from VD directly) but it crashes if I am running VR necksafer.

 

Anyone had a success with VD and VR necksafer?

 

Do you run VD?  Please see my question below but VD and your utility seems to be mutually exclusive.

 

Secondly, for DCS, do you run your utility via Skatezilla's updater before you run DCS?

No, I havn't tried Virtual Desktop yet. Will have a look at it in the future but that will have to wait a bit. I usually run VRNS manually after starting DCS via Skatezilla's updater. But it probably should be possible to use the updater to start VRNS...

Edited by J2_NobiWan
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To wildly paraphrase Sally Fields :"It works -IT REALLY WORKS!!!

For the very first time in this sim I was able to look over my shoulder while flying a FW-190 & see my dropped bomb actually hit and explode on the targeted bridge....AMAZING!!

( Thanks Dirty Mike  for walking me through it and thank you J2 NobiWan for developing this much needed & appreciated mod! No more sore neck for me!

 

giphy.gif

Edited by Blitzen
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Jade_Monkey

This is fantastic, I'm embarrased to say I just found about it.

 

My first few tests are good but im going to try making the animation a bit smootherkind iof what TIR does.

Is that possible?

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15[Span.]/JG51Costa

Hello JadeMonkey.
Yes, it is possible.
Simply download v.2exp. which you will find the download link above in this thread.

It works great!

 

Saludos.

15(Span.)/JG51 Costa

 

Found it.

 

https://gitlab.com/NobiWan/vrnecksafer/-/blob/master/VRNeckSafer/Release/VRNeckSaferv02exp.zip


 

 

Edited by 15[Span.]/JG51Costa
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Hi guys!
Can VRNeckSafer work with War Thunder on oculus quest 2 ?
It does not work for me.
Have a positive experience?

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SCG_Redcloud111
10 hours ago, boroda100 said:

Hi guys!
Can VRNeckSafer work with War Thunder on oculus quest 2 ?
It does not work for me.
Have a positive experience?

I use a VP2 and tested WT last week. I made to sure to have seated position selected. It worked.

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-332FG-spacemarx

Wow, this is something!


Since moving to VR, I've been getting jumped a lot more because I just can't check my six like I used to.

 

This NeckSaver, though, is a game changer!

 

Any chance of making this work with OpenComposite? It saves me a few frames and is just a nicer experience than have to run steamVR.

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TCW_DirtyMike0330
1 minute ago, Requiem said:

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong but I can't get VRNS to work. I have a Reverb G2, but when the VRNS app and SteamVR are both running while flying Il-2 it's apparent that head movement is still 1:1

 

Using the version from this link: https://gitlab.com/NobiWan/vrnecksafer/-/blob/master/VRNeckSafer/Release/VRNeckSaferv02exp.zip

I also have the G2 and this is the only way I can get VRNS to work for me:

 

  1. Start WMR
  2. Start SteamVR - reset seated position
  3. Start VR Neck Saver
  4. Start IL2
  5. Once in cockpit, hit reset mapped to both VRNS and in game.
  6. Alt-Tab to Steam VR - Reset seated position AGAIN. (the one you click from the drop down menu in the little SteamVR box, not the one you can only access via controller that starts the countdown timer).
  7. Close VRNS, open VRNS again
  8. Alt-Tab back into the game - reset view button- VRNS works fine.

I literally have to do this process every time or I either have the same issue as you or just get no response from VRNS at all.

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SCG_Redcloud111
1 hour ago, TCW_DirtyMike0330 said:
  1. Start WMR
  2. Start SteamVR - reset seated position
  3. Start VR Neck Saver
  4. Start IL2
  5. Once in cockpit, hit reset mapped to both VRNS and in game.
  6. Alt-Tab to Steam VR - Reset seated position AGAIN. (the one you click from the drop down menu in the little SteamVR box, not the one you can only access via controller that starts the countdown timer).
  7. Close VRNS, open VRNS again
  8. Alt-Tab back into the game - reset view button- VRNS works fine.

 

Wow, that is quite complex. I didn’t realize WMR required this. For VP2 it’s a simple open VRnecksaver after IL2, click the reset button, and that’s it. 

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QB.Gordon200

I start Widows Mixed Reality and then VRnecksaver which starts SteamVR. I then get into my sim pit and launch IL2. Once in the game cockpit I press button to recenter my seat position. That's it.

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TCW_DirtyMike0330
24 minutes ago, QB.Gordon200 said:

I start Widows Mixed Reality and then VRnecksaver which starts SteamVR. I then get into my sim pit and launch IL2. Once in the game cockpit I press button to recenter my seat position. That's it.

I wish I could do that! For whatever reason, that process doesn’t work for me and I have to do my aforementioned one. Now, I usually start SteamVR and then VRNS, not the other way around, so I’ll give that a shot but I’d be surprised if that changes anything for me :(

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3 hours ago, TCW_DirtyMike0330 said:

I also have the G2 and this is the only way I can get VRNS to work for me:

 

  1. Start WMR
  2. Start SteamVR - reset seated position
  3. Start VR Neck Saver
  4. Start IL2
  5. Once in cockpit, hit reset mapped to both VRNS and in game.
  6. Alt-Tab to Steam VR - Reset seated position AGAIN. (the one you click from the drop down menu in the little SteamVR box, not the one you can only access via controller that starts the countdown timer).
  7. Close VRNS, open VRNS again
  8. Alt-Tab back into the game - reset view button- VRNS works fine.

I literally have to do this process every time or I either have the same issue as you or just get no response from VRNS at all.

Thanks for the write up. I followed it to the T but it still doesn't work for me unfortunately

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Kurtis_NEWTON
8 hours ago, TCW_DirtyMike0330 said:

I also have the G2 and this is the only way I can get VRNS to work for me:

 

  1. Start WMR
  2. Start SteamVR - reset seated position
  3. Start VR Neck Saver
  4. Start IL2
  5. Once in cockpit, hit reset mapped to both VRNS and in game.
  6. Alt-Tab to Steam VR - Reset seated position AGAIN. (the one you click from the drop down menu in the little SteamVR box, not the one you can only access via controller that starts the countdown timer).
  7. Close VRNS, open VRNS again
  8. Alt-Tab back into the game - reset view button- VRNS works fine.

I literally have to do this process every time or I either have the same issue as you or just get no response from VRNS at all.

 

 

It's a complicated way that you have ! 😅

On my side, I launch "VNRS" which starts "SteamVR" which starts "WMR". That's just one click and everything works. May be, I'm lucky ?!

 

Note 1 : VRNS is set as shown in the picture below and I also have the HP G2.

VRNS.jpg.06edde3e85ec6f7147fdd4f8663b34dd.jpg

 

Note 2 : but for this to work well at each start (and considering I have no controller), it was necessary the first time to delete the environment in the "WMR" interface to recenter it and then start "SteamVR". After that, you need only to use the VRNS mapping button when you are in game. And be sure to have selected the good "Game mode" & "Position compensation".

 

Note 3 : and again I thank @J2_NobiWan for his absolute game changer ! 

 

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TCW_DirtyMike0330
1 minute ago, Kurtis_NEWTON said:

 

 

It's a complicated way that you have ! 😅

On my side, I launch "VNRS" which starts "SteamVR" which starts "WMR". That's just one click and everything works. May be, I'm lucky ?!

 

Note 1 : VRNS is set as shown in the picture below and I also have the HP G2.

VRNS.jpg.06edde3e85ec6f7147fdd4f8663b34dd.jpg

 

Note 2 : but for this to work well at each start (and considering I have no controller), it was necessary the first time to delete the environment in the "WMR" interface to recenter it and then start "SteamVR". After that, you need only to use the VRNS mapping button when you are in game. And be sure to have selected the good "Game mode" & "Position compensation".

 

Note 3 : and again I thank @J2_NobiWan for his absolute game changer ! 

 

You are the 2nd person who said they start VRNS first, which starts SteamVR! I am going to try that tomorrow and hope that it will save me from the long process I have to use 😄

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