Flying the P47

[PatrickAWlson]

As a confessed Teutonophile, I generally fly German.  As the developer of PWCG I have to get into everything every so often.  So I was doing a lot of testing in a P47 lately.  Couldn't fly the thing for diddly but it if I'm just doing a little testing it's no big deal.  Except I was in the thing enough that not being able to fly it was getting annoying.  Even if I am running test missions I do like to have a little bit of fun.  So I looked up the Requiem video. 

 

Holy crud, what load of engine/cockpit management.  Propeller, throttle, super charger, link here, unlink there, don't forget the cowls, watch the temperature, trim,  ... how are you supposed to remember to actually fight anybody?  Gives some appreciation for what real pilots experienced, especially when you consider that, for all of that management in the game, it is still extremely simplified compared to the real thing, and done from a chair in our dens instead of a cold cockpit while somebody is trying to kill you.  

 

So a quick salute to the arm chair pilots who take on this beast in the game, and a bigger salute to the real pilots who did all of this, much more, and still fought for real.  Now back to my nice little FW190 where I have to manage cowls (I barely remember to do that).

[=RS=Stix_09]

This video by sheriff is prob better as its more geared to combat.
its not that bad, as the turbo over rpm is only an issue at very high alt, 20k ft + from mem.

At lower at you can just max the turbo out, and forget about it.

 

 

[TheWarsimmer]

I think it's easier to simplify it as much as possible. Link the throttle and supercharger, because until you get to like 25k it makes no difference. I also set the RPM at 83% (in the same position as the auto-rich) and forget it. Both rads in neutral and forget it.

 

Do this, and all there is to manage is the throttle and front cowl flap. You shouldn't have to ever worry about any temps other than the cylinder head, which is cooled via that front cowl flap.

[=RS=Stix_09]

I don't find I need to change rads much once set, its also a plane you tend to fly fast , and not turn fight in it.

I just max the turbo, and only worry about it up higher

[-SF-Disarray]

For a lot of the stuff you don't really need to be all that involved. The turbo can be turned up to 100% and left there unless you are going above 15,000 feet or so. The temps self regulate with speed fairly well, keep the plane going about 200 mph and it shouldn't get too hot on you. If it heats up simply open the cowl up a little bit and it will cool off. For the rest of the cooling systems just leave the intercooler flap at the back set to 50% and open the oil rad a little if you like; for the oil rad you can get away with leaving it fairly closed if ambient is on the cool side. The majority of the engine management work is going to be adjusting the RPM and throttle levers. In this respect it isn't so much different than say a P-51 or P-40.

[Blackhawk_FR]

Yes P47 is one of the more complex to manage, but you can quickly realise it can be simple (as mostly said above). Still need to practice a bit to get used to it. 

 

Radiators? Cowls flaps stay generally closed, just open in case of hot outside air temp, especially when climbing. Oil rad doesn't need to be changed every minut (like every oil rads).

Turbosupercharger? Just link it to the throttle and forget it (except when flying very high). 

Intercooler? Set it to 50% and forget it. I guess it should be more complex but in the game, it works and give you the best speed. 

Mixture? Set the auto mode you want (auto lean or auto rich) and forget it. You get few mph with full rich (100%) when WEP is engaged. 

RPM? I use only 2 positions: 2700rpm for climbing and accelerate (especially in the dogfight area). 2550rpm (85%) for cruising, cruise climbing, diving, and over 300mph on level flight (you get more speed). Btw, your engine can hold almost 30min at combat mode (full throttle without WEP) at 2550 rpm instead of 2700. For all those reasons, I never link the RPM lever to throttle. 

 

About the WEP, it's very powerful but doesn't last long, and it's even a bit shorter with 150 octanes. 5 min at continue power (88% throttle 85% RPM approx) regenerate 2min30 of WEP. 

Edited November 3, 2020 by JG300_Faucon

[Rjel]

I’ve been flying the Thunderbolt in the Hell Hawks campaign. I’ve really enjoyed learning the P-47 again. It seems like a completely different aircraft from what it was when first released. I’ve yet to cook an engine even when running the boost for a considerable time. As to the complexity, once learned where the settings need to be, I really only jockey the throttle and prop pitch as I fly a mission. All in all, it’s becoming more the plane I’d hoped it would be. 

[Sandhill]

Per Republic's manuals, in real life  you would almost never link the turbo to the throttle below 7000" as it would rob you of SO much (300 HP) power.  This does not seem to be modeled in the game, which seems a shame.

jump to 5:00 to cut to the chase, although it is a good video from end to end

Edit:  Nevermind.  Doh.  The above seems to have applied if 91 octane fuel was all that was available.  Check the pump   With 100 octane or better the turbo could be linked from TO up, and presumably provided more maximum net power at any altitude.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Sandhill
time in video, lernt more

[jollyjack]

P47D Strafing, i got the impression that it's easier aiming with about 30% flaps?

Curve and slower speed behavior seems more accurate.

Edited December 15, 2020 by jollyjack

[Jaegermeister]

@PatrickAWlson, I don't know if you fly VR or not, but for me that was the biggest game changer when it comes to engine management. I used to use all the auto prop, mixture, radiator, etc. helpers, but when I started flying in VR, I deleted the HUD display.  Now it's just the actual cockpit instruments and all the controls are manually operated or function as they did in the real aircraft. Combine that with a HOTAS you can't see to use, and you learn real quick how to simplify which controls you need and where they are.

 

The controls for fighters are basically the same until you get into multi engine, with the P-38 and A-20 being more difficult to manipulate during ordnance drops or engine emergencies like feathering a prop for landing. I agree that linking the turbo, throttle and prop pitch is challenging, but it is just a slightly longer cockpit check that is necessary before take off. An air start in the Jug in VR would be a nightmare. 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Jaegermeister

[von_Tom]

On 11/3/2020 at 3:43 PM, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Holy crud, what load of engine/cockpit management.  Propeller, throttle, super charger, link here, unlink there, don't forget the cowls, watch the temperature, trim,  ... how are you supposed to remember to actually fight anybody? 

 

You can make it a lot easier for yourself.  Depending on your controls:

 

Map the supercharger cooler thing and the oil radiator to the same thing - whilst the engine is starting shift them all the way open then back to half closed (2 indicators left side of cockpit by your left elbow).  Then forget about them.

 

Map the supercharger to a spare throttle lever if you have one.  After engine start up put it to maximum and forget about it until you get over 20,000ft.  By that time you'll be flying at max throttle and flying on the supercharger.  I never bother linking the supercharger and throttle.

 

Then all you need to do is juggle manifold pressure and RPM.  Maybe cowl flaps if you're overheating badly.

 

You do have to remember to watch manifold pressure as you descend, and not to rapidly change the throttle settings or you'll kill the engine.

 

That's about it.  The kommandogerät is an amazing thing but do well in the P47 and you get more of a sense of achievement.

 

I'll also give a shout out to @Jaegermeister because what he says about switching off all HUD displays (and I mean everything) is correct.  After a very short period of time you never need the info that the HUD or tech tips give you.

 

von Tom

[PatrickAWlson]

@Jaegermeister @von_Tom Thanks for the responses.  Hopefully this thread helps others as well.

 

I do fly VR and I do so without the HUD, so I agree that changes everything.  I have a decent HOTAS with a good number of buttons and switches, so that helps as well.

 

My biggest mistake was trying to map everything for every plane in one set of inputs.  Not enough buttons and couldn't keep track.  That stopped.  I created a "default" set but then a specific set every time I pick up a new plane.  I save them as mods and swap them in when I want to fly that plane.  It means I can't just switch planes easily in game unless the mappings are close enough or I'm willing to go without some controls for that flight, but it works well.

 

One new feature I would love to have is per plane configuration, but until then this will do.

[Jaegermeister]

I can't remember different control configurations for different planes. My solution is to keep flying one or 2 planes as much as possible and then change up after a while. I also try to map the controls so they are similar.

 

I built a button box with a programmable keypad to replace my keyboard. The Keypad emulates F1 through F12 which is necessary for the formation and leader commands. It's right in front of the throttle so I can count buttons to index them from the lower corner of the keypad.

 

[PatrickAWlson]

I make heavy use of Voice Attack for commands and things that the game refers to as "Service".  For anything plane related like engine or weapons management I like to press a button - things like dropping bombs, firing rockets, doing anything with the engine or control surfaces.  For the other stuff a voice command makes a lot of sense.  I use voice for multi crew as well to switch positions.  So all of that alt-c, alt-t, shift-t nonsense is done through voice.  That  freed up a ton of buttons for engine management.

[Jaegermeister]

3 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I make heavy use of Voice Attack for commands and things that the game refers to as "Service". 

 

I might give that a roll. I can see that as a great option for the flight leader commands as well. Make my microphone useful

[PatrickAWlson]

3 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

I might give that a roll. I can see that as a great option for the flight leader commands as well. Make my microphone useful

 

@dburne suggested it some time ago.  It is now part of my regular engine start routine

Voice Attack

WMS

Steam VR

Great Battles

[Jaegermeister]

 

3 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

.... Steam VR

 

You might look at running OpenComposite instead of Steam VR. Way more user friendly in my opinion. It starts automatically, no jitters on the loading screen, and no Steam baggage.

[jollyjack]

On 11/5/2020 at 2:26 PM, Rjel said:

I’ve been flying the Thunderbolt in the Hell Hawks campaign. I’ve really enjoyed learning the P-47 again. It seems like a completely different aircraft from what it was when first released. I’ve yet to cook an engine even when running the boost for a considerable time. As to the complexity, once learned where the settings need to be, I really only jockey the throttle and prop pitch as I fly a mission. All in all, it’s becoming more the plane I’d hoped it would be. 

 

Yep, bought Gambit's Bulge affair, he did a terrific job once again ... and it surely rose my interest in the P47.