Finally almost no shimmering (for nVidia users) without taxing 4xSGSSAA

[Retnek]

I will, see below. First please be aware this hint for the last patch:
"4. Landscape rendering has been further optimized, this may improve the performance in many situations"

 

I just started two quick tests for the last patch with my recent settings, still looks fine. But I haven't tested it really, let's hope it's ok or still a good start. Fly low < 400 m over Moscow or Stalingrad-maps to check. Not that much difference between landscape = blurred or sharp for me. I prefer "sharp" because of  better look-out from high above.

 

PS: for owners of old graphic cards or FPS-freaks, set "antialiasing transparency = 2x multisample" isn't that much difference for me, but will add some FPS.

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Retnek
added PS

[jokerBR]

Edited the first post. After last patch, got some stuttering when panning with TrackIR, although my fps was the same. I've discovered that disabling 4K skins got rid of the stuttering. Before the patch it was the opposite. Weird.

[MattS]

2 hours ago, jokerBR said:

Edited the first post. After last patch, got some stuttering when panning with TrackIR, although my fps was the same. I've discovered that disabling 4K skins got rid of the stuttering. Before the patch it was the opposite. Weird.

 

I'm going to try this as well...patch introduced the same thing, like a little hitch with no change on the FPS meter. Strange times LOL.

[jokerBR]

Well, discovered that it is indeed related to TrackIR: if you don't cap your game to 60fps, for some reason TIR causes stutters while panning. I was capped before but removed the cap to do some tests and forgot to get it back. 4K skins are enabled again, but it was interesting to discover that, when you're *not* capped, then they do a big hit on overall panning smoothness on older cards like mine (GTX1080 here).

Cheers.

[-332FG-brooklynspo]

On 5/29/2020 at 1:29 PM, Retnek said:

I will, see below. First please be aware this hint for the last patch:
"4. Landscape rendering has been further optimized, this may improve the performance in many situations"

 

I just started two quick tests for the last patch with my recent settings, still looks fine. But I haven't tested it really, let's hope it's ok or still a good start. Fly low < 400 m over Moscow or Stalingrad-maps to check. Not that much difference between landscape = blurred or sharp for me. I prefer "sharp" because of  better look-out from high above.

 

PS: for owners of old graphic cards or FPS-freaks, set "antialiasing transparency = 2x multisample" isn't that much difference for me, but will add some FPS.

 

I have implemented settings similar to those in Retnek's last post and I see shimmering greatly reduced. Thanks!

[AvtoMatex]

Ok sorry for resurrecting an old post, but my issue kind of belongs here.  If I set any (!) transparency AA in inspector or control panel, it makes my smoke effects look colorful, see attachment.

I am running the game on a 970ti with 4 GB of RAM, not the newest card, setting 2k DSR on a 1080p screen with 4x MSAA in-game and 4x Transparency SS (no SG) gives me acceptable results overall while maintaining a nice FPS level as well, but gives me the purple haze issue.

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by AvtoMatex

[MajorMagee]

I just tried this and see something similar as well. My color shift was more like bright yellow, but perhaps that was because it was in an early morning scenario where the sky colors were different. Restoring the default Nvidia settings, and everything is back to normal.

Edited October 14, 2021 by MajorMagee

[AvtoMatex]

35 minutes ago, MajorMagee said:

I just tried this and see something similar as well. My color shift was more like bright yellow, but perhaps that was because it was in an early morning scenario where the sky colors were different. Restoring the default Nvidia settings, and everything is back to normal.

The color difference could be because of me using reshade, but the main issue is there without reshade as well, unless i deactivate transparency AA, which brings back the terrain aliasing. Also it makes no difference wether I use SGAA or normal transparency SSAA, any setting will cause this.

 

Its flickering and shines bright colors on supposed-to-be-black smoke, including tracer smoke and bullet impacts, making them look like flames.

[actionjoe]

Same problem here (with a RTX 3060 12GB), transparency AA (which is the good way* to avoid terrain aliasing) gives you orange smoke, etc..

 

(*you can use the "blur" option on terrain setting in game which give good result when at low altitudes, but  at med and high altitude terrain just look awful)

 

I'm surprised that not more people complain about this.

Edited October 16, 2021 by actionjoe

[MajorMagee]

I hate the shimmering too, but it seems to be useless to complain about it unless they were willing to make SGSSAA native to their rendering engine.

 

I see z-layer flickering in some of the buildings that I'd much rather they spend time to get fixed.

[Dauntless]

startup.cfg  change bloom_enable = 1 to bloom_enable = 0    

 

[AvtoMatex]

6 hours ago, Dauntless said:

startup.cfg  change bloom_enable = 1 to bloom_enable = 0    

 

Nope, just tried: same.
 

6 hours ago, MajorMagee said:

I hate the shimmering too, but it seems to be useless to complain about it unless they were willing to make SGSSAA native to their rendering engine.

 

I see z-layer flickering in some of the buildings that I'd much rather they spend time to get fixed.

The shimmering noticeably stresses my eyes when flying ground attack planes.
The thing is that this used to work fine a few months ago even with SGSSAA and bloom enabled, i was actually happy to be able to use normal 4x transparency AA archieving good results when combined with 1440p DSR on my 1080p monitor, which gives me better FPS and quality than 1080p and 4x SGSSAA. This has nothing to do with SGSSAA, but with any transparency AA being set by nvidia profile regardless of setting.

Currently, the only way to get completely rid of shimmering effects is to use 4k DSR for me, but this slows the game down.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by AvtoMatex

[AvtoMatex]

Btw, so far my testing shows that there are 3 different sources of aliasing/shimmering in this game, at least on an nvidia system.

 

- Edges of planes and ground object models, those are handled by in-game MSAA or DSR.
- Roads and coastlines of rivers and lakes, never recieving any AA by any setting, have to be dealt with by DSR, which works pretty well but never will completely go away.

- Texture-objects like foilage and grass and object shadows, source of heavy shimmering whily flying close to the gound or in forests when seen from above. This is where transparency AA is needed, or DSR which helps pretty well.

 

So far, on my machine, (8 x 4,4 Ghz AMD, GF 970Ti with 4GB VRAM, 1080p monitor) i favour 3 modes:

By any means, I set "max pre-rendered frames" to 1 in nvidia inspector, otherwise i will get stutters.

 

- 4k DSR with 2x MSAA set in-game: gives great image quality but is very hard on GPU and causes some kind of persistant slo-mo.
- 2k (1527p) DSR with 4x MSAA in-game and 4x transparency SSAA nvidia inspector setting. Great FPS, very good overall quality, some minor shimmering on very distant landscape. (but with the said color glitch on smoke effects!)

- 4k DSR with no AA at all. This is what i currently use, very good image quality as well, no shimmering on coastlines or vegetation, some aliasing on ground buildings. Good FPS with some dips when a lot of particle effects appear close to screen (ground attacks with rockets etc.).

Edited October 18, 2021 by AvtoMatex

[FoxbatRU]

Today I tried the new Nvidia driver. On my 2560x1440 monitor, when using DLDSR with a degree of 1.78 and 2.25, anti-aliasing MSAA x0 (in the game), the overflows of the river banks and the cheer horizon disappeared.

Edited January 24, 2022 by FoxbatRU

[Wilhelm_Heidkamp]

I will try It.

 

TY.

[FoxbatRU]

I hurried with the horizon, I continue to mask for 70 km. But at least the rivers / shores were cured.

[[CPT]Crunch]

Thanks for the utility, using it for VR, some of those settings have vary dramatic effects on the visuals, and it's so easy to hit reset to go back, well worth experimenting in VR, eliminated much of the last of the shimmer on the far horizons, can see nearly the entire Kuban in good detail on a clear day at 13,000 feet.  I can see the two spits of land in the kerch strait from above Novorisk.

[[CPT]Crunch]

There's a profile called "VRdirectX" and it has a few interesting settings.  Had to do a complete win 11 swipe and reinstall, got rid of all the problems, new game install, everything's looking good.  But it looks even better with these in VR, especially long range contacts, more of the haze disappears also.  You get a better 3D depth feel, frames are a bit smoother and tend to stay easier at top end.

 

All you need to do is turn on "Show unknown setting from predefined profiles," find these marked in green, set each one and Apply Changes as you do.

 

[69th_Panp]

On 6/14/2020 at 4:27 PM, jokerBR said:

Well, discovered that it is indeed related to TrackIR: if you don't cap your game to 60fps, for some reason TIR causes stutters while panning. I was capped before but removed the cap to do some tests and forgot to get it back. 4K skins are enabled again, but it was interesting to discover that, when you're *not* capped, then they do a big hit on overall panning smoothness on older cards like mine (GTX1080 here).

Cheers.

Your TIR should not cause stutter in 60FPS, its rated at 120 htrz 

are you sure it's TIR and not the smoothing setting in the camara gui?

I try and make my smoothing setting lower in game than in the TIR settings 

Edited February 1, 2022 by 69th_Panp

[jokerBR]

14 hours ago, 69th_Panp said:

Your TIR should not cause stutter in 60FPS, its rated at 120 htrz 

are you sure it's TIR and not the smoothing setting in the camara gui?

I try and make my smoothing setting lower in game than in the TIR settings 

Hi 69th_Panp, interesting comment. It may be so, I always got puzzled why TrackIR caused stutters when above 60Hz too specially if using 144Hz freesync monitors,, but reading a lot about the issue on Internet got me "fixing" it by freezing refresh rate at 60. Anything above this and 120Hz and I get stutter - and I don't have the necessary gfx card to run it at 120 all times. There's another gain when capping at 60 - you allow enough room for the gfx to oscillate during peak moments, without creating "gfx stuttering". 
Anyway, I'll try your suggestion about the smoothing camera thing. If I recall, I'm not using it at all inside game, but I may be mistaken. Also, I use a "straight" profile on tir (don't use any curve in any axis).

Always learning. Thanks.

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

I usually hate necroing an old thread like this, but I‘m mighty interested in this. Does this method still work in the current ver of the game?

 

AA kills visibility too badly IMO, but flying without is just too much of a shimmerfest IMO.

[jokerBR]

5 hours ago, So_ein_Feuerball said:

I usually hate necroing an old thread like this, but I‘m mighty interested in this. Does this method still work in the current ver of the game?

 

AA kills visibility too badly IMO, but flying without is just too much of a shimmerfest IMO.

TBH I haven't used this method lately. I started to see less effect on shimmering long time ago while I was still using it, and so I revert to basic profile, just forcing aniso. Perhaps it's time to try again, after so many game and driver changes, and see if the performance and effects still apply. This being said, every system performs differently, so I encourage you to try on your own system and see if it helps. Worst thing that can happen is it doesn't help anymore, and then you just revert back. 

 

EDIT: Did the test, and it seems that the compatibility bits really doesn't work. Also, shimmering varies according the map. I'm really glad that you necroed this thread, it made me test again the DSR, and using the 511.79 driver for Pascal, I got absolutely zero shimmering in every altitude in scenery using 3x resolution and 25% sharpening (no MSAA), equal performance than using MSAA. Running on 2560x1080 native monitor. I'm impressed, and very happy.

Edited February 16, 2023 by jokerBR

[fubar_2_niner]

I keep seeing references to 'DSR' 

I have been completely through both Nvidia Control panel (both Global and Program settings), likewise Nvidia Inspector, I can find no mention of it, would one of you kindly gents shoot me a screen of where it is please.

 

Many thanks.

 

Fube

[Wilhelm_Heidkamp]

4 hours ago, fubar_2_niner said:

I keep seeing references to 'DSR' 

I have been completely through both Nvidia Control panel (both Global and Program settings), likewise Nvidia Inspector, I can find no mention of it, would one of you kindly gents shoot me a screen of where it is please.

 

Many thanks.

 

Fube

 

First, update to latest Nvidia drivers.

[fubar_2_niner]

48 minutes ago, PA_Willy said:

 

First, update to latest Nvidia drivers.

 

 

@PA_Willy Thank you for the swift reply, however, my drivers are 527.56 dated December 08 2022. A full two and one half years after the first mention of DSR.

 

Any other clues?

Best regards.

 

Fube

[Wilhelm_Heidkamp]

Update to latest. First thing to check.

 

[Props]

On 3/4/2023 at 10:50 AM, fubar_2_niner said:

 

@PA_Willy Thank you for the swift reply, however, my drivers are 527.56 dated December 08 2022. A full two and one half years after the first mention of DSR.

 

Any other clues?

Best regards.

 

Fube

I am at loss as to why you cannot find DSR in your NVCP. Mine is under Global settings and it does not show up under Program settings for IL2 GB or any other sim for that matter - only in the Global settings. Maybe try changing your "Adjust image settings with Preview" with the Quality - Performance bar slider as I know this can change some settings in the Global settings window though I can't be sure this will help you. Oh yeah, always be sure you hit that "apply" button - I forget it sometimes and of course I have to go back and do it again.

[FoxbatRU]

[[CPT]Crunch]

It doesn't show up under the IL-2 profile, only the general settings.  Maybe he was looking under the profile.  I always assumed it won't work with a game if the profile doesn't allow it.

[Props]

DSR & DLDSR only work through the graphics card (Nvidia that is not AMD) and does not require any code within games or sims to be implemented. It deals with display resolutions and does it on the fly without affecting sim graphics coding so it can be used by any game. That is why it is only available under Global settings and not under individual game settings in Program settings window. Once it has been turned on it is basically in use for any game that is run on your system. DLSS on the other hand does require code in the sim to be used but the acronyms are often confused with each other. DLSS and DSR can be used together since they are "independent" of each other in how they are implemented, but DLSS will still require in game coding, while DSR does not.

[fubar_2_niner]

What do I have to do to convince you guys....

@PA_Willy

 

I do not wish to upgrade to the latest drivers as NVidia have admitted a problem with them causing a CPU spike. @Props, @[CPT]Crunch and @FoxbatRU.

 

Thanks for your help gents, however be assured I have been using Nvidia CP and NVI for years. I have never come across this sort of thing before. Drivers are always clean uninstalled using DDU. GF Experience is never used my end. I will attempt to use driver set 528.49, I am starting to wonder if this might be a 4090 thing.

 

I will repot back my findings.

 

Kind regards, and thanks for all your patience.

 

Fube

 

[fubar_2_niner]

Gentlemen,

 

Further to my last post, I have now updated my drivers to 528.49, having first cleaned out my previous in the fashion stated above. Check out the result below

 

 

As you can see, absolutely no change... No DSR options. Does anyone here own a 4090 or any 40x series card, they might double check my findings?

 

Best regards.

 

Fube.

Edited March 6, 2023 by fubar_2_niner

[69th_Panp]

beg to disagree on it not showing up in the IL2 profile 

and here is a screen shot of the drop down 

[Koziolek]

11 hours ago, fubar_2_niner said:

Gentlemen,

 

Further to my last post, I have now updated my drivers to 528.49, having first cleaned out my previous in the fashion stated above. Check out the result below

 

 

As you can see, absolutely no change... No DSR options. Does anyone here own a 4090 or any 40x series card, they might double check my findings?

 

Best regards.

 

Fube.

you have to enable Image scaling first

[Props]

Fubar_2_Niner I must admit this is a conundrum. But I can verify that you Do Not need to enable Image Scaling as some have recommended here. The Image Scaling (aka NIS) is separate from DSR and can be of use but it will effect every Windows program and the results aren't that great as I had tried that quite a while ago and discarded using it right away. Note my screenshots of my current setup on a MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4080: 

 

As you can see I do not have Image Scaling enabled, it is off and my DSR is running in the 2.25 mode. I am also using the 528.49 driver which was installed via DDU and NVCleaninstall. I wish I could be of more help for you, but I am not sure what is going on in your case. I would probably do some searches on the Nvidia forums and website and probably make a query of their tech team about this, because you shouldn't be having this problem

Edited March 7, 2023 by Props

[Koziolek]

I did not have DSR settings visible ( the same as Fubar_2_Niner ) until I enabled Image Scaling in general

but they stayed there after I set them and then disabled Image Scaling

RTX 4070Ti

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Koziolek

[fubar_2_niner]

@Props and @Koziolek

 

And so the mystery deepens, as you can see not only no DSR options also no Image Scaling option in Global settings either.

See below.

 

Any other ideas chaps?

 

Regards.

 

Fube.

Edited March 7, 2023 by fubar_2_niner

[Props]

Sorry I cast doubt on your experience Koziolek using Image Scaling to turn DSR on. Though it seems to be not case with me I have to remind myself that with PCs there are always a ton of variables that affect our performance. Fubar I did some searches and found some old threads dating from 2015 to present and here are some possible solutions:

 

Disable "G-Sync" and "Prefered Refresh rate", save your settings, and restart the machine.

DSR will not work with a SLI setup. Also I saw 2 references to G-Sync should be turned off in Global, but no mention about Program settings panel in this regard.
Saw 2 posts about using multiple monitors disallows DSR options.

Steam community thread was interesting: https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/11/5077247524954640539/

 

From a recent thread:
 was able to enable the settings by turning off 240Hz mode and using 120Hz. (I'm thinking that DSR/DLDSR is not possible due to the signal compression to enable 240Hz, which I currently don't remember what the technology is called).

figured it out , you have to reduce hz on your monitor to 120 or below and or turn off g-sync / adaptive sync. After that DLDSR & DSR showed up in the control panel. Edit I was using a 4k native monitor , so this may vary, try going to your monitor settings > menu > system > displayport ver. change this to 1.2 and see if DSR appears.

I thought this one was weird since I am running an ASUS 32" monitor at 144Hz and IL2 at 144 FPS, until I remembered that when I first tried DLDSR I was using a 120 FPS max framerate for IL2 GB in the Program settings for IL2 GB, so maybe there's something to it.

 

If you visit your "Manage 3D settings" in the Nvidia Control Panel and find that you cannot enable DSR you may have to adjust a simple windows setting called "Snap To". This setting is located in your mouse settings of the Windows Control Panel.
In Control Panel, click on Mouse, and in the "Pointer Options" tab under "Snap To" check off the "Automatically move pointer to the default button in a dialog box" checkbox and hit "Apply".
Now, if you go back into your "Manage 3D settings" in the Nvidia Control Panel you will be able to enable DSR.

Note: If you are using a 3840x2160 or higher display, the option to enable DSR will not be available. - But I have seen notes to the contrary with people using 4K monitors with DSR so not sure about this one.

 

Also saw a note about this being a problem on Dell laptops.

 

Don't know if any of this will help. But I hope so. I probably don't need to use it but I definitely noticed an improvement in IL2 GB with no shimmer and only a miniscule amount of aliasing on distant waterways now where it was terrible before with varying degrees no matter what type of anti-aliasing approach I tried. Using it in conjunction with DLSS Quality mode in MSFS has also been very good, though some folks appear to have some blurry cockpit visuals doing this, but I have not. Good Luck

[Wilhelm_Heidkamp]

22 minutes ago, Props said:

 

Note: If you are using a 3840x2160 or higher display, the option to enable DSR will not be available. - But I have seen notes to the contrary with people using 4K monitors with DSR so not sure about this one.

 

 

 

My screen is a 4K LG 43". I play at DSR 1x.78 and I can display whatever other DSR resolution in the list. 

[fubar_2_niner]

41 minutes ago, Props said:

Sorry I cast doubt on your experience Koziolek using Image Scaling to turn DSR on. Though it seems to be not case with me I have to remind myself that with PCs there are always a ton of variables that affect our performance. Fubar I did some searches and found some old threads dating from 2015 to present and here are some possible solutions:

 

Disable "G-Sync" and "Prefered Refresh rate", save your settings, and restart the machine.

DSR will not work with a SLI setup. Also I saw 2 references to G-Sync should be turned off in Global, but no mention about Program settings panel in this regard.
Saw 2 posts about using multiple monitors disallows DSR options.

Steam community thread was interesting: https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/11/5077247524954640539/

 

From a recent thread:
 was able to enable the settings by turning off 240Hz mode and using 120Hz. (I'm thinking that DSR/DLDSR is not possible due to the signal compression to enable 240Hz, which I currently don't remember what the technology is called).

figured it out , you have to reduce hz on your monitor to 120 or below and or turn off g-sync / adaptive sync. After that DLDSR & DSR showed up in the control panel. Edit I was using a 4k native monitor , so this may vary, try going to your monitor settings > menu > system > displayport ver. change this to 1.2 and see if DSR appears.

I thought this one was weird since I am running an ASUS 32" monitor at 144Hz and IL2 at 144 FPS, until I remembered that when I first tried DLDSR I was using a 120 FPS max framerate for IL2 GB in the Program settings for IL2 GB, so maybe there's something to it.

 

If you visit your "Manage 3D settings" in the Nvidia Control Panel and find that you cannot enable DSR you may have to adjust a simple windows setting called "Snap To". This setting is located in your mouse settings of the Windows Control Panel.
In Control Panel, click on Mouse, and in the "Pointer Options" tab under "Snap To" check off the "Automatically move pointer to the default button in a dialog box" checkbox and hit "Apply".
Now, if you go back into your "Manage 3D settings" in the Nvidia Control Panel you will be able to enable DSR.

Note: If you are using a 3840x2160 or higher display, the option to enable DSR will not be available. - But I have seen notes to the contrary with people using 4K monitors with DSR so not sure about this one.

 

Also saw a note about this being a problem on Dell laptops.

 

Don't know if any of this will help. But I hope so. I probably don't need to use it but I definitely noticed an improvement in IL2 GB with no shimmer and only a miniscule amount of aliasing on distant waterways now where it was terrible before with varying degrees no matter what type of anti-aliasing approach I tried. Using it in conjunction with DLSS Quality mode in MSFS has also been very good, though some folks appear to have some blurry cockpit visuals doing this, but I have not. Good Luck

@Props

 

Thanks for the many hints mate, I'll do my best to wade thru them as work allows' My monitor has a native 138Hz Refresh @ 3840x2160... Alarm bell !! It is also G-SYNC... Second alarm bell !! Regarding mouse options, 'Snap To' option is off by default on my rig. Lowering of Hz refresh rate is interesting, certainly worth a shot !!

 

I can only offer my thanks for your help @Props I will surely keep you guys updated on any progress. Many, many thanks for your time and patience !!

 

Kind regards.

 

Fube