FXAA/MSAA in VR compared

[firdimigdi]

Because FXAA blends the cloud artifacts better for me while MSAA makes them stand out. So I avoided MSAA entirely and with the above chain I can make out plane types easier. If the sharpen filter was adjustable ofc I'd skip the last usage of FXAA from the NVCP.

 

  

6 minutes ago, VR-DriftaholiC said:

If anything is going to crush tiny planes into obscurity it's surely an end of render chain blur.

 

It would if it was strong blur, but the FXAA imposed by the driver is not that strong, it just barely takes the edge off of the sharpen filter so there's way less shimmering.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Firdimigdi

[VR-DriftaholiC]

edit: nevermind. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by VR-DriftaholiC

[firdimigdi]

I don't mean the distant cloud artifacting - I mean the artifacts of the planes infront of clouds. With MSAA on my end planes going infront of clouds (preset high, clouds high) would have that known issue of the very pronounced dark halo around them, with FXAA this is mitigated quite well.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Firdimigdi

[FTC_Mephisto]

While the halo against the clouds is rather ugly it does help very much with spotting

[BP_Lizard]

2 hours ago, VR-DriftaholiC said:

Clouds only really shimmer at distance.

Reminds me of ‘Hotel California.’

 

“Up ahead in the distance
I saw a shimmering light”

[RedKestrel]

7 minutes ago, BP_Lizard said:

Reminds me of ‘Hotel California.’

 

“Up ahead in the distance
I saw a shimmering light”

You can bail out any time you like

but you can never leave!

[firdimigdi]

After the 4.006e update on the Rift S I ditched FXAA entirely and went 1.1 supersampling which gives a nice boost of clarity to the gauges, and 2x MSAA with MFAA enabled and no sharpening so there's no shimmering and provides adequate contrast without blurring - all while maintaining the same GPU rendertimes.

Turning HDR off was a must as well as it's not balanced at all for the LCD displays of the S and it actually seems to be detrimental to contrast in my experience.

Now to get better at actually IDing the pixels...

Edited June 2, 2020 by Firdimigdi

[VR-DriftaholiC]

8 hours ago, Firdimigdi said:

2x MSAA with MFAA enabled

 

My understanding is MFAA doesn't work via a driver override and would have to be enabled by the developers.

Edited June 3, 2020 by VR-DriftaholiC

[firdimigdi]

3 hours ago, VR-DriftaholiC said:

 

My understanding is MFAA doesn't work via a driver override and would have to be enabled by the developers.

Entirely possible as I can't vouch to being immune to placebo, but it seems to me that it has a visual difference when viewed in the headset; when next I'm feeling up to it I'll do some more extensive on/off tests and see. What probably gets me is that the nvidia profile for IL2 allows MFAA while that is not true in other games.

[Creep]

On 5/29/2020 at 8:10 AM, RedKestrel said:

You can bail out any time you like

but you can never leave!

Keep it going fellas! I would love to see a complete set of parody lyrics! Make Weird Al proud!

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Have updated the stickied thread. I have found, like Alonzo suggested and Talon mentioned as well already, that the new native MSAA scales objects/aircrafts better than a higher SuperSampling value. Direct comparisons have shown me that it is also much better than FXAA: It makes contacts better visible to spot - over clouds - over terrain. However, a minimum of SS remains needed (Reverb being an exception) to make for a less flickery picture, and it requires some performance.

 

So the best recipe remains a steady, calm background image, to spot moving objects/aircrafts against.

Edited June 6, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[=SFG=capt_nasties]

has anyone been able to correct the washed out / saturated look since the update?  I have gamma at .8 and would like to get it lower (reverb) 

[Creep]

13 minutes ago, =SFG=capt_nasties said:

has anyone been able to correct the washed out / saturated look since the update?  I have gamma at .8 and would like to get it lower (reverb) 

same story here with the Reverb. it doesn't seem like adjusting the gamma in the cfg does anything.

[FTC_crane]

Reverb here too. Try turning off HDR and 0.8 gamma should do.

[=SFG=capt_nasties]

already had HDR off, still very washed out.  spotting is T O U G H currently for me...

[shirazjohn]

I have reverb also and have tried just about every combination of graphics settings but i cant seem to achieve the clarity i had pre deferred rendering .  There was aliasing (shimmering) on the distant clouds before the update but now its also on the distant landscape and the new cloud reflections on the water. I have settled for fxaa x4 and 132% ss although i think msaa is better but my gtx1080ti is not really up to it. I don't know if its placebo or not but i think 16x anistropic filtering in nv control panel seems to improve clarity slighty. But i do agree with you guys it does seem more washed out in appearance. 

Dont get me wrong i absolutely luv this sim and i take my hat to the approach the devs take to it , i just hope they can improve things down the line.

Edited June 15, 2020 by shirazjohn

[dburne]

Can't say I have noticed a washed out color affect, using my Rift S.

I run SSAO on but HDR off.

[FTC_crane]

I've been doing some testing to find optimal settings to spot with my reverb. Test setup: Quick Mission Battle over Stalingrad winter map, 1500m, heavy weather at 1800m, a group or 4 enemy aircraft spawned in co-alt at 10km distance. When I started, I was not able to spot the contacts at 10km. I found that scaling the resolution down to 50% of the reverbs native resolution allows to spot contacts and lets me run the game at a constant 90FPS and MSAA 4x. Flying together with other players, it seems that my ability to spot is about par with most.

 

Steam VR Resolution per Eye: 1560x1524 50%

Ingame Graphic Setings (startup.cfg) shown below.
 

[KEY = graphics]
	3dhud = 0
	adapter = 0
	bloom_enable = 0
	canopy_ref = 0
	desktop_center = 1
	detail_rt_res = 1024
	draw_distance = 1.00000
	far_blocks = 1
	fps_counter = 0
	fps_limit = 0
	full_height = 1200
	full_width = 1600
	fullscreen = 0
	gamma = 0.80000
	grass_distance = 0.00000
	hdr_enable = 0
	land_anisotropy = 2
	land_tex_lods = 3
	max_cache_res = 1
	max_clouds_quality = 2
	mgpu_compatible = 0
	mirrors = 0
	msaa = 1
	multisampling = 2
	or_ca = 0.00444
	or_dummy = 0
	or_enable = 1
	or_height = 1524
	or_hud_rad = 1.50000
	or_hud_size = 0.75000
	or_ipd = 0.06366
	or_sipdc = 0.00000
	or_width = 1560
	post_sharpen = 1
	preset = 2
	prop_blur_max_rpm_for_vr = -1
	rescale_target = 1.00000
	shadows_quality = 3
	ssao_enable = 0
	stereo_dof = 5.00000
	vsync = 0
	win_height = 768
	win_width = 1024
[END]

 

It irritates me a bit that I have to run the headset at half it's resolution, but it still looks better than with a Rift CV1 and overall doesn't look as bad as it sounds.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by ACG_crane

[TWC_NINja]

@QB.Creep and @=SFG=capt_nasties 

 

I use the VR Enhancer mod - the added contrast and color saturation really pops the visuals on my Reverb

 

 

[Schmehl]

4 hours ago, dburne said:

Can't say I have noticed a washed out color affect, using my Rift S.

I run SSAO on but HDR off.

What is it that you like about SSAO?

[dburne]

29 minutes ago, Schmehl said:

What is it that you like about SSAO?

 

Colors seem a little more vibrant to me. I just recently started running it and found I liked it.

[=SFG=capt_nasties]

Quote

18 hours ago, ACG_crane said:

I've been doing some testing to find optimal settings to spot with my reverb. Test setup: Quick Mission Battle over Stalingrad winter map, 1500m, heavy weather at 1800m, a group or 4 enemy aircraft spawned in co-alt at 10km distance. When I started, I was not able to spot the contacts at 10km. I found that scaling the resolution down to 50% of the reverbs native resolution allows to spot contacts and lets me run the game at a constant 90FPS and MSAA 4x. Flying together with other players, it seems that my ability to spot is about par with most.

 

Steam VR Resolution per Eye: 1560x1524 50%

Ingame Graphic Setings (startup.cfg) shown below.
 

[KEY = graphics]
	3dhud = 0
	adapter = 0
	bloom_enable = 0
	canopy_ref = 0
	desktop_center = 1
	detail_rt_res = 1024
	draw_distance = 1.00000
	far_blocks = 1
	fps_counter = 0
	fps_limit = 0
	full_height = 1200
	full_width = 1600
	fullscreen = 0
	gamma = 0.80000
	grass_distance = 0.00000
	hdr_enable = 0
	land_anisotropy = 2
	land_tex_lods = 3
	max_cache_res = 1
	max_clouds_quality = 2
	mgpu_compatible = 0
	mirrors = 0
	msaa = 1
	multisampling = 2
	or_ca = 0.00444
	or_dummy = 0
	or_enable = 1
	or_height = 1524
	or_hud_rad = 1.50000
	or_hud_size = 0.75000
	or_ipd = 0.06366
	or_sipdc = 0.00000
	or_width = 1560
	post_sharpen = 1
	preset = 2
	prop_blur_max_rpm_for_vr = -1
	rescale_target = 1.00000
	shadows_quality = 3
	ssao_enable = 0
	stereo_dof = 5.00000
	vsync = 0
	win_height = 768
	win_width = 1024
[END]

 

It irritates me a bit that I have to run the headset at half it's resolution, but it still looks better than with a Rift CV1 and overall doesn't look as bad as it sounds.

 

 

 

 

interesting.  have you tried to run VRSS on top of this?  Perhaps might boost up the pixels in the center when taking this approach? My issue is that when I tested the reverb at less than 100% SS I did not have any noticeable performance increase...but perhaps a 2nd test is warranted.  

[firdimigdi]

23 minutes ago, =SFG=capt_nasties said:

 

 

interesting.  have you tried to run VRSS on top of this?  Perhaps might boost up the pixels in the center when taking this approach? My issue is that when I tested the reverb at less than 100% SS I did not have any noticeable performance increase...but perhaps a 2nd test is warranted.  

 

VRSS gives off some weird results here on a Rift S; I can clearly see the border of the area where it takes effect (it's highly distracting) and I'm not convinced IL2's engine plays nicely with it, some textures with transparency in them render rather oddly in the peripheral (adding further to the distraction).

[SCG_Wulfe]

16 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Colors seem a little more vibrant to me. I just recently started running it and found I liked it.

 

I used to run SSAO but found it was a big FPS hog. It does look prettier but I found it wasn't worth it for me. Disabling it allowed me the bandwidth to run 4X FXAA without microstutters. 

[FTC_crane]

3 hours ago, =SFG=capt_nasties said:

interesting.  have you tried to run VRSS on top of this?  Perhaps might boost up the pixels in the center when taking this approach? My issue is that when I tested the reverb at less than 100% SS I did not have any noticeable performance increase...but perhaps a 2nd test is warranted.  

 

VRSS is showing "Not supported for this aplication". Any clue why?

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Because IL-2 does not support VRSS.

[firdimigdi]

Yeah you can force it on with nvidia inspector. But as I wrote above I am not convinced it plays nice with IL2's engine - at least not to the point where you'd think it provides any benefit but hey YMMV.

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Firdimigdi

[SCG_Redcloud111]

Hey, Pimax guys. I have spent the past week, reading this post, playing around with settings.  After the deferred shading update, and @SCG_Fenris_Wolf's  recommendation that msaa is an improvement, I thought I would see if I could solve my spotting issue. (Reading this post reinforced the idea that spotting could be improved). My 4.8ghz CPU with a 1080ti could push my Pimax 5K+ with PT set to 1.75 and Steam SS at 0.20 to a stable 55 fps reprojected to 110 in most cases -- but only with multisampling = 0 and shadows = 1.  (Yes, I know that ghosting is an issue, but it is very minimal and the benefits of having super smooth framerates are worth it.) Anyway, when I turned on shadows = 4, as well as msaax4, my machine tanked into the low 40s. So, I have been experimenting with the hopes that all this talk of msaa will improve spotting. I think I found a workable solution for my setup.

 

As of now, on my Pimax I am seeing air targets at 8k with no alternate visibility. The critical thing I did was set PT at 1.5 (which does decrease the graphical fidelity, but only slightly).

 

I am curious, though, about the role HDR has to play in this. It seems that with HDR off, air targets are now more visible. Can any graphics gurus explain this?

 

So, again, my core settings

 

Steam SS: 0.20

PiTools: 1.50

HDR off

MSAA x4

Shadows 3

 

Thanks!

Edited June 17, 2020 by SCG_redcloud111

[dburne]

18 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

I used to run SSAO but found it was a big FPS hog. It does look prettier but I found it wasn't worth it for me. Disabling it allowed me the bandwidth to run 4X FXAA without microstutters. 

 

Yeah IIRC I believe that is why I had it off for so long as well, but seems my current rig can handle it OK. 

[=SFG=capt_nasties]

has anyone been able to improve the hazy / foggy look.  This is driving me absolutely nuts.

 

also,  the shimmering of distant contacts in the old build really helped with spotting...there is no way to see them without some sort of aid it all just blends together most of the time.  i have 20/20 vision and a reverb.  and i hate to sound like a dick, but I built a system to run 2160x2160 at 90 fps and the last thing I want to do is reduce the resolution of my reverb....

Edited June 20, 2020 by =SFG=capt_nasties

[Georgio]

Currently also running SSAO and FXAA and even though the VR view seems clearer since the last update, the colours are more washed out.

However, I would also add that this actually looks more realistic as this is generally the view you get with atmospherics muting the colours.

[Dutch2]

On 6/20/2020 at 6:22 PM, =SFG=capt_nasties said:

has anyone been able to improve the hazy / foggy look.  This is driving me absolutely nuts.

 

also,  the shimmering of distant contacts in the old build really helped with spotting...there is no way to see them without some sort of aid it all just blends together most of the time.  i have 20/20 vision and a reverb.  and i hate to sound like a dick, but I built a system to run 2160x2160 at 90 fps and the last thing I want to do is reduce the resolution of my reverb....

 

You could try the no-fog mod that can be found at the mods section. 

[TCW_Brzi_Joe]

No need for mod, just try to put 150 km draw distance and landscape details 4. That combination makes haze (moisture blur effect in long distance) away. I do not know is it better for spotting or not, some say planes are more visible against blurred haze background.

[Alonzo]

On 6/20/2020 at 10:22 AM, =SFG=capt_nasties said:

has anyone been able to improve the hazy / foggy look.  This is driving me absolutely nuts.

 

also,  the shimmering of distant contacts in the old build really helped with spotting...there is no way to see them without some sort of aid it all just blends together most of the time.  i have 20/20 vision and a reverb.  and i hate to sound like a dick, but I built a system to run 2160x2160 at 90 fps and the last thing I want to do is reduce the resolution of my reverb....

 

Absolute best spotting is with MSAA. Try MSAA 2x, sharpen off, 150km draw distance and potato on as many other settings as you need to hit 90hz. MSAA for me on a Rift S / 2080 was like a 20% GPU usage difference, though.

[356thFS_Piranha]

@Alonzo

Whats potato?

[blue_max]

2 hours ago, QB.Piranha said:

@Alonzo

Whats potato?

He means reduce the settings to as low as you need to go. Apparently Alonzo does not think potatoes are beautiful ?

Edited June 24, 2020 by blue_max

[Alonzo]

9 hours ago, QB.Piranha said:

@Alonzo

Whats potato?

 

6 hours ago, blue_max said:

He means reduce the settings to as low as you need to go. Apparently Alonzo does not think potatoes are beautiful ?

 

I have no idea where it came from, but it's like "whoa dude, your graphics settings suck, are you, like, gaming on a potato?"

 

Hence Potato PC, "Potato FOV" etc.

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

I find il2 in be with my o+ has become not very enjoyable from what it was before the Differed rendering upDate...     I spend day to day trying to find the best visual quality and performance mix, eventually just shutting off the game.   @Alonzo  it feels very much like My pc is a potato now...

before update, high preset, almost everything maxed out, msaa2x, steam ss at %150 and it would be beautiful with manageable frames at least 70.... 

 

now I dropped almost everything Med low, preset still high,  Dropped steam ss to120%, msaa2x, to get almost the same performance...   but the visuals are horrible... fxaa is just a no, even worse

i don’t care for spotting tricks, it’s fine and as realistic as it can be, I just want to be able to look at the my wing man, the ground objects, vehicles and not see a jagged mess..  I can tell before I start just by seeing the main menu...  plane looks jaggy in the hanger and the railings shimmering all over..

 

I’m hoping to upgrade to an reverb or the g2 for some higher Native resolution, Hopefully that will help... 

I love the p38 campaign, but loading in and seeing everything as it is is depressing.. and I can’t go back to pancake gameplay.. 2d, just not happening.

 

I hate comparing apples to oranges but in the end they’re still fruits...

dcs is fine... I’m able to get the quality I want and frames.  It’s my go to at the moment till i can figure out il2..

 

 

[SIA_Sp00k]

What exactly in the game is the Fog Haze/heat shimmer?   What is its purpose?   Why is it still drawing breath in the game after all this time?  Why are we not petitioning change?   What year was Tupperware made microwave safe?=(If its even possible on the game engine)

Edited July 29, 2020 by TWC_Sp00k

[Dave]

On 6/3/2020 at 11:32 AM, VR-DriftaholiC said:

My understanding is MFAA doesn't work via a driver override and would have to be enabled by the developers.

You are correct - anyone who thinks MFAA is improving their IL2 graphics is imagining it.

On 6/16/2020 at 4:27 AM, shirazjohn said:

I have settled for fxaa x4 and 132% ss although i think msaa is better but my gtx1080ti is not really up to it.

2x MSAA (and possibly even 4x MSAA) is less taxing on the GPU than supersampling for Reverb at 132% due to already pushing 8k without SS. This is a different story however for Rift. This is a good example of where one person's great settings wont work for everybody. If you have a Reverb and 1080Ti I recommend not using any supersampling at all and spending the liberated FPS on better antialiasing or not suffering microstutters.

Supersampling was really a hack for earlier lower resolution HMDs like CV1. With Reverb and Index I think it is actually counter productive - it has the highest impact on FPS of any "tweak" exaggerated by the high resolution of the latest HMDs, and it blurs the entire image slightly while MSAA does more intelligent model geometry based edge detection to minimise aliasing without just blurring everything. When you combine supersampling with FXAA you are effectively blurring the result of blurring. It's a lot of extra overhead for bugger all improvement if any. If getting distant contacts to stand out is your goal I think this is probably taking you in the wrong direction.

On 6/21/2020 at 7:45 PM, Georgio said:

Currently also running SSAO and FXAA and even though the VR view seems clearer since the last update, the colours are more washed out.

SSAO is quite costly - high quality AO essentially uses a simplified ray-tracing algorithm to approximate the occlusion of global illumination (indirect bounce lighting from nearby surfaces) to improve the realism of shadowed regions which might otherwise look unnaturally flat. SSAO is a simplified screen space approximation of this - it is faster than AO alternatives but slower than no AO at all. In IL2 I personally think this adds almost nothing to the visuals in VR while costing precious FPS. Try turning this off and if you cant tell the difference you can enjoy the FPS boost without feeling like you are missing anything.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Dave
Elaborated / refined the explanation of SSAO (ie compared to NO AO explicitly)