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Developer Diary 228 - Discussion

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16 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Gielow said:

Any measured impact on FPS considering this view distance increase ??? 

 

Only for me: No. Still is very fast and smooth.  Using Ultra settings and all other entries are on Max. 

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12 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

An unsteady vision would be good for fatigue.   The wavering cinematic camera view that we have on externals would be useful if applied to the pilot.  It would make it difficult to keep an eye on the gunsight and would simulate a difficulty to concentrate.  A more extreme version could also be used to represent hypoxia. 

 

inadvisable for VR users though, that's a recipe for VR sickness

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4 minutes ago, ACG_Herne said:

 

inadvisable for VR users though, that's a recipe for VR sickness

Definitely, even as a regular head track user I think that would inspire motion sickness in a lot of people. Anytime your vision shows movement while your inner ear does not detect movement can make you nauseous. At least with head tracking the minute movements of your head match up a bit with the moving screen. 

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No worries.  You know the rest of us would do almost anything for VR users.  :biggrin:

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Posted (edited)

Re: G-Load Bar vs. Heavy Breathing. 

 

I for one find the idea of heavy breathing more immersion breaking than a small visual representation because it's not your own breathing, it'd just sound like someone breathing in your ears (well it already does.) (IMHO) 

 

I would say, regrading people not wanting the G-Load Bar, make possible to disable like the FPS counter. (I would also suggest making it independent from the HUD, again like the FPS counter.) 

 

Edited by Soilworker

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1 hour ago, Soilworker said:

Re: G-Load Bar vs. Heavy Breathing. 

 

I for one find the idea of heavy breathing more immersion breaking than a small visual representation because it's not your own breathing, it'd just sound like someone breathing in your ears (well it already does.) (IMHO) 

 

I would say, regrading people not wanting the G-Load Bar, make possible to disable like the FPS counter. (I would also suggest making it independent from the HUD, again like the FPS counter.) 

 

What about both? The bar for easy play and the heavy breathing for full real.

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Just now, 15[Span.]/JG51Spartan said:

What about both? The bar for easy play and the heavy breathing for full real.

 

Well I wouldn't say the bar for easy, it's meant to represent how you feel ergo it's not an assist, ideally I'd say have both with options to disable each but if I'm honest I don't see it happening. 

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2 hours ago, Soilworker said:


I for one find the idea of heavy breathing more immersion breaking.... 

 

 

...and not to mention, just outright creepy.  

 

I dont know who that dude is in that "other" sim but when I hear him huffing and puffing like that, it sounds like Chester the Molester has stowed away somewhere inside the aeroplane.

 

If they go this route maybe the audio files could be deleted, as currently works to get rid of the annoyingly abrasive shouting of that "Hans Gruber" dude who's always freaking out about stuff on the German  radio.

 

Or an option for user-defined Heavy Breathing audio tracks could provide interesting options, particularly when used in conjunction with the planned new In-Cockpit Photograph feature.

😜

 

 

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On 8/18/2019 at 5:45 AM, CrazyDuck said:

This means that every pilot’s maneuver performed with a large g-load is no longer in vain, and the more actively a pilot maneuvers, the worse he and his crew will suffer further g-loads. If the pilot is already pretty worn out by maneuvering combat, be aware that a new opponent who entered the battle will have a significant advantage, and maybe you should get out of the dogfight and catch your breath.

 

Wow, just wow! I've been silently hoping for this in any flight sim ever since I'm simming (20+ years), this being (IMHO) one of the major factors that would make air combat maneouvering closer to real life. There simply is no way you could yank the stick around pulling 5g turns for 10 minutes straight in real aircraft, like you can in sims, IL-2 included. And not only high-G fatigue counts here, but also muscular fatigue in arms and upper body from simply moving the stick.

 

I was wondering about muscle fatigue myself - it seems like there is an opportunity to model stick loads here (i.e. model the fact that some aircraft have heavier controls than others do)!

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13 minutes ago, Stoopy said:

 particularly when used in conjunction with the planned new In-Cockpit Photograph feature.

 

 

Probably helps with too much blood going to the brain in -G as well.

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Question for the developers. Bodenplatte is almost complete. SOoooo... what's on the horizon after Bodenplatte?

4 hours ago, ACG_Herne said:

 

inadvisable for VR users though, that's a recipe for VR sickness

I'm guessing if you don't like it, there'll be an option to turn it off

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3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

I was wondering about muscle fatigue myself - it seems like there is an opportunity to model stick loads here (i.e. model the fact that some aircraft have heavier controls than others do)!

 

Indeed! I guess flying A6M at 300 mph was one hell of a lot harder compared to P-51 for example.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, I./JG1_Baron said:

 

Only for me: No. Still is very fast and smooth.  Using Ultra settings and all other entries are on Max. 

Same here, IL2 runs great. I have an old I7-3770 and I'm getting 47 fps in VR!! By comparison, 9fps in X-Plane. Also, I have every addon I can get. My game is 54 gig and still getting 47 fps. IL2 in VR is the only way to fly.

Edited by onlyforbrian
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13 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

I was wondering about muscle fatigue myself - it seems like there is an opportunity to model stick loads here (i.e. model the fact that some aircraft have heavier controls than others do)!

I hope they do this.

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They already model the 109 stick controls as very heavy. The heaviest in game i believe.

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One important aspect to model right in BOBP now that pilot strength and fatigue will become factors is the late war superior Allied pilot stamina: A pilot fed with bacon & eggs or steak & toast should have no problem tiring the opposition. Consequently, I foresee a large amount of K4's lawndarting since the poor Nachwuchs only had half a Brötchen and some watery Ersatz for breakfast.

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12 minutes ago, Holtzauge said:

One important aspect to model right in BOBP now that pilot strength and fatigue will become factors is the late war superior Allied pilot stamina: A pilot fed with bacon & eggs or steak & toast should have no problem tiring the opposition. Consequently, I foresee a large amount of K4's lawndarting since the poor Nachwuchs only had half a Brötchen and some watery Ersatz for breakfast.

sure and all German planes get a 50% chance to spawn without fuel or ammo, right? let's crank up the fun real good!

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22 minutes ago, Holtzauge said:

One important aspect to model right in BOBP now that pilot strength and fatigue will become factors is the late war superior Allied pilot stamina: A pilot fed with bacon & eggs or steak & toast should have no problem tiring the opposition. Consequently, I foresee a large amount of K4's lawndarting since the poor Nachwuchs only had half a Brötchen and some watery Ersatz for breakfast.

This sounds like a bad idea, if only because I really don't want this to apply to chronically underfed soviet pilots...

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A bar showing pilot strength or health will be an absolute arcade cheat.

 

In real life you cannot anticipate how much strength you have left in your body, real pilots did not know, they will fight until the last drop of their strength if needed to save their lives, sometimes resulting in blackouts, redouts , being shot down or crashes.

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27 minutes ago, Holtzauge said:

One important aspect to model right in BOBP now that pilot strength and fatigue will become factors is the late war superior Allied pilot stamina: A pilot fed with bacon & eggs or steak & toast should have no problem tiring the opposition. Consequently, I foresee a large amount of K4's lawndarting since the poor Nachwuchs only had half a Brötchen and some watery Ersatz for breakfast.

Please tell me you're joking.

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5 minutes ago, Jonttu1 said:

Please tell me you're joking.

 

I don't see a problem since you will always be able to disable the default weaker pilots by enabling the "Experten" or "Apparatchik" options under custom settings?

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Do you get a +1 on strength stamina and wisdom if wearing a dashing moustache?

AND a stackeable +1 for selecting a cigar mode on the Loadout?

 

91f14fdf377269a3a7bf7bfef02cf455.jpg

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Have no fear: I have it on good authority that both cows and moustaches will be modeled!

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5 minutes ago, Holtzauge said:

Have no fear: I have it on good authority that both cows and moustaches will be modeled!

That sounds like Bullocks to me!

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23 minutes ago, =FEW=fernando11 said:

Do you get a +1 on strength stamina and wisdom if wearing a dashing moustache?

AND a stackeable +1 for selecting a cigar mode on the Loadout?

 

91f14fdf377269a3a7bf7bfef02cf455.jpg

The +1 from the moustache will be offset slightly by the additional drag caused by the moustache. A waxed moustache mod will be available that will reduce drag.

If you have a cigar you will definitely get a bonus but during high-G manuevers there will be a chance biting off the tip and slowly choking to death. Classiness has its cost!

17 minutes ago, Elem said:

That sounds like Bullocks to me!

Do you have beef with these other posters?

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Cigar bonus: +1 dmg per gun

Cigar drawback: high risk of fire in cockpit under heavy positive G's. High risk of getting blinded under heavy negative G's.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/19/2019 at 2:05 AM, Tapi said:

Well, I think some kind of feedback would be necessary. Not only about actual G-load but mainly about overall pilot fitness.

 

How can we know how much our avatar pilot is tired? We certainly need some info for our decisions i.e. seeing new contacts I have to make a decision: shall I enter the next combat or not? If I am tired after the last engagement I probably won't but if I am fresh I can go on... 

 

May be some kind of decent (i.e low visible colour) progress bar positioned near the low edge of screen?

 

As for the VR on the other hand, some kind of audio feedback (i.e. pilot start breathing more heavily) probably would be better to not spoil the overall immersion.

 

I think we need to see the new system in action first before we start adding load bars etc to the game. Its all about immersion.

I'm all for adding in extra visual or audio queues to counter the lack of physical feeling feedback that is not possible in a game (because in a game we only have sight and sound senses and a monitor and sound system (not as accurate as IRL either , ie less resolution and field of view, and colour perception).... IF its done in a way that minimises non immersion (a digital HUD display breaks immersion). Something like a slight visual queues or heavy breath sounds are more immersive that a digital bar going up and down and its a better method to aid the loss of getting physical feedback (which is not possible to be simulated. I'm not a fan of using digital techno chat to give feedback WHEN  you can do this in less immersion breaking ways.

 

I suspect you will get a feel for how much your body can take similar to engine limits, after 3-5 mins at x setting or 10-15 mins at y setting , engine damage, rest engine and it recovers.Likely we don't need anything but a clock and experience to approximate this. Once we have the feature , then more feedback can be given

 

BTW: I'm a fan of proposed changes , current gamplay immersion will benefit from this. I hope more audio queues also  get added to the game too as it does lack a bit in audio in the cockpit currently IMHO.

 

 

Edited by =RS=Stix_09
typo
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7 hours ago, J2_Jakob said:

Cigar bonus: +1 dmg per gun

Cigar drawback: high risk of fire in cockpit under heavy positive G's. High risk of getting blinded under heavy negative G's.

 

 

Allegedly he flew the only 109 in the Luftwaffe with a build-in cigar lighter. That is awesome...lol!

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1 hour ago, sevenless said:

 

Allegedly he flew the only 109 in the Luftwaffe with a build-in cigar lighter. That is awesome...lol!

And a cigar holder for when things got serious.
That always made me chuckle considering he was puffing away and dropping ashes with a fuel line inches to his right and potentially bullets and shells flying all around. Balls!

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On 8/16/2019 at 11:49 PM, von_Michelstamm said:

Stuka pilots were specifically chosen from 30-40 year old men with stocky builds because of their G resistance.

That's a riot! I have GOT to know where you read that! As a pilot who has done airbatics, I can tell you that the older I got, the harder it was for me to take it. I don't even like roller coasters any more!

But anyway, it's looking good, Jason. I wouldn't be heartbroken if the new collectors planes were a flyable B-25 and a P-51B/C. 

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8 hours ago, von_Michelstamm said:

And a cigar holder for when things got serious.
That always made me chuckle considering he was puffing away and dropping ashes with a fuel line inches to his right and potentially bullets and shells flying all around. Balls!

 

Actually the temperature of a smoldering cigarette or cigar is not enough to ignite petrol. 

 

And now I've gone and ruined every movie where they flick a cigarette into the petrol to start a fire. 

 

It is true though, they tested it on Mythbusters and a buddy of mine worked with a guy who'd chuck his butts in bucket of petrol, why? I have no idea. 

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33 minutes ago, Soilworker said:

not enough to ignite petrol.

Should work just fine on the oxygen they're breathing though?

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5 minutes ago, [_FLAPS_]Diggun said:

Should work just fine on the oxygen they're breathing though?

 

Hmmm, if they were breathing a higher concentration of oxygen than air and it wasn't leaking out of the cockpit too rapidly then I guess his cigar could have burnt a bit hotter bringing it closer to the flash point of petrol. 🤔

 

Oxygen itself isn't flammable, it just creates a better environment for combustion. 

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On 8/18/2019 at 7:46 PM, EAF19_Marsh said:

0 Harsher regime for black-out / grey-out I totally understand, but since it is impossible to simulate the physiological elements of maneuvering then I doubt that a very complicated system is the best use of team resources. When you pull 'g' you know that you are pulling 'g' and balance accordingly. In a chair, you lack the myriad sensory feedback and so I worry that this will simply feel clunky.

 

At the end of the day we all are still waiting for Holodecks but for now our desk chairs and displays will have to do. 

 

When will we see Force Feedback HOTAS Floor mounted Sticks and Pedals?  Then we could at least have control surface forces give us a workout.😬

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12 hours ago, Poochnboo said:

That's a riot! I have GOT to know where you read that! As a pilot who has done airbatics, I can tell you that the older I got, the harder it was for me to take it. I don't even like roller coasters any more!

But anyway, it's looking good, Jason. I wouldn't be heartbroken if the new collectors planes were a flyable B-25 and a P-51B/C. 

 

He mentioned it a couple of times. Most recently, I heard it in the “the German Aces Speak,” which on audiobook is over 10 hours of interviews with Galland, krupinski, etc. The second book has Hartmann.

One highlight so far is Steinhoff talking about the nightmare that dealing with Marseilles was, before he sent him to Africa to get him away from the distraction of easy village girls 😂

 

 

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Anyone who has followed this series knows that the same physics that applies to your airplane applies to the AI plane.  It is one of the points of pride to this franchise going back to Rise of Flight.  I think you can count on the new pilot physics applying to the AI pilot as well.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SYN_Mike77 said:

Anyone who has followed this series knows that the same physics that applies to your airplane applies to the AI plane.  It is one of the points of pride to this franchise going back to Rise of Flight.  I think you can count on the new pilot physics applying to the AI pilot as well.

If so, that's great. I didn't see a commitment one way or other in the initial announcement of the physiology module. Right now in Tacview I can see AI G6 pilots maintaining 3-5 G loads for substantial periods of time.

Edited by Dagwoodyt

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