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Developer Diary 228 - Discussion

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8 hours ago, von_Michelstamm said:

He mentioned it a couple of times.

It's just so hard for me to believe it. I find it difficult to believe they were even taking on 40 year old pilots. Combat flying is a young man's game. Hell, Boyington's Black Sheep pilots called him "Pappy" because he was about 30!

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On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 12:12 AM, =FEW=fernando11 said:

Do you get a +1 on strength stamina and wisdom if wearing a dashing moustache?

AND a stackeable +1 for selecting a cigar mode on the Loadout?

 

91f14fdf377269a3a7bf7bfef02cf455.jpg

 

*takes off all medals and quits game until server allows Me-262 without bombs*

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15 hours ago, Poochnboo said:

It's just so hard for me to believe it. I find it difficult to believe they were even taking on 40 year old pilots. Combat flying is a young man's game. Hell, Boyington's Black Sheep pilots called him "Pappy" because he was about 30!

US sendt people applying for pilots during ww2 over 26 to navigation or bombardier training if they appear with papers that suited officer rank. 

One of these went to Cannada instead and got trained as a pilot. Even though they also was restrictive conserning age. He might have been able to add more skills outside the states

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22 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

*takes off all medals and quits game until server allows Me-262 without bombs*

 

Starts Voteban on someone who took his Me262 which are limited on the server.

 

 

(Yes, after 262 release people tried that on me 😄)

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On 8/20/2019 at 2:14 PM, Holtzauge said:

One important aspect to model right in BOBP now that pilot strength and fatigue will become factors is the late war superior Allied pilot stamina: A pilot fed with bacon & eggs or steak & toast should have no problem tiring the opposition. Consequently, I foresee a large amount of K4's lawndarting since the poor Nachwuchs only had half a Brötchen and some watery Ersatz for breakfast.

 

Don't you know Allies ate Luftwaffles for breakfast? 😉

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Amazing news indeed!

Also some day i would love to see more realistic landings as difficulty option, less forgiving ones when hard landing occur.

Landing is the most fun part of the flight (outside combat), also the most dangerous one.

 

Big please :)

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Since we have all now agreed that the developers will have to add dietary factors, why not also fatigue? I suggest that Night Witches in U-2's overflying the lines at night should diminuish German pilot effectiveness by 30% the following day...

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On 8/20/2019 at 4:12 PM, =FEW=fernando11 said:

Do you get a +1 on strength stamina and wisdom if wearing a dashing moustache?

AND a stackeable +1 for selecting a cigar mode on the Loadout?

 

91f14fdf377269a3a7bf7bfef02cf455.jpg

 

Boy, that hat really looks effed up.

Nice scarf though.

 

Mustaches are bulletproof. Ask Robin Olds.

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On 8/21/2019 at 4:49 PM, Blarg_Blar_Luftwaffles said:

I'm guessing Gloster Meteor to balance the Me 262's introduction, and the Hawker Hurricane.

I'm guessing that you're guessing incorrectly. But, I'm just guessing.

1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

Boy, that hat really looks effed up.

Yeah, I think the AAF called that the 50 mission crush. In the case of Galland (and other German fighter pilots) it would have been more like the 350 mission crush!

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Hmm guess the collector planes?

 

Mosquito. Very good choice, and a popular one. Can they choose a version and get the info in the time allotted?

 

Hurricane: Doesn't really fit in the Bodenplatte period. If an earlier, popular "not used by another product" Western Front campaign is used then yes, but it would probably feature as part of the standard set.

 

Me410: Sure

 

Flyable B-25: Don't know, would seem a bit odd only having it AI driven with the option to upgrade to full flyable. The work entailed doesn't seem worth it..? Again, like the Hurricane maybe another Western Front or even Pacific expansion.

 

B-17, were they around Bodenplatte map at? I think the Lancaster was, however a lot of investment and I suspect (could be wrong) the first 4 engine heavies could be AI.

 

Typhoon: Probably between this or a Mosquito. Maybe easier to get the Typhoon into the sim than the Mosquito within time frame tey have given themselves.

 

Spitfire XIV: Same as the Typhoon...

 

Meteor: I would love this one, wasn't allowed to sky over Soviet or too far into enemy lands as they didn't want to give away the secret of the alloys used in the engine construction (there are interviews on Youtube stating this from what I recall and well not that it mattered, the Soviets were given engines by the succeeding Labour govt). It didn't face a lot of Luftwaffe opposition, by the time it deployed to the continent there wasn't much left of it. This doesn't matter here...

 

Avro Anson: All time winner here:

 

https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/blog/avro-ansons-vs-messerschmitt-109s-dunkirk-1940/

 

No prize to whoever actually gets it right, but a fun guess that plane nevertheless...

 

Looking forward to the whole new update, another glad they're not asking for my vital statistics to be inputted lol.

 

Add the picture feature isn't one I had thought of, what are you going to put in the cockpit with you? I might use my great-uncle...

 

 

 

 

 

 

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KUDOS! 👏

I believe the new physiology system will be excellent. I also think the devs are being incredibly data driven on this point due to their anticipation of backseat sniping.

 

It will take everyone a bit to adjust, no more negative positive G jinks with deltas of 10g every 1 second. But everyone will be better off in the end.

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19 minutes ago, 15[Span.]/JG51Spartan said:

It's a pity that nowadays joysticks do not use the getting stiffed or vibrate to help with the G forces .....

I've still got my old Microsoft Force Feedback up & operating.It doesn't do all that you ask but still works quite well with BoX ( initially it didn't work at all , but now you can feel all the bumps & recoils you could want.)It doesn't have near the buttons & sliders i would ordinarily want while in VR mode,but it does deliver on FFB as good as ever so i guess i'll use it until it dies ( or I do1)

b3.jpg

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Posted (edited)

I'm looking forward to having this in game , I wonder how it will compare to Cliffs of Dover's, implementation of it.

Personally I like CODs implementation of it. It works and doesn't impact my ability to fly too much but give a feel of more realism than IL- GB very static environment.

 

According to wiki page on Ju 87 pilots faced significant high G loads during dive bombing.

 

WW2 fighters were very physically demanding environments, vibrations, under load stresses (sounds also) on plane,  and pilot. If done well could add greatly to the experience.

 

IL-2 GB is currently lacking realism a bit in cockpit, sounds and visual effects are very minimal currently IMHO. I'm hoping its done well , cause is could be great (or bad if over done)

 

Good luck to the devs on doing this well.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_87#G-force_test_at_Dessau

Quote

G-force test at Dessau[edit]

Extensive tests were carried out by the Junkers works at their Dessau plant. It was discovered that the highest load a pilot could endure was 8.5g for three seconds, when the aircraft was pushed to its limit by the centrifugal forces. At less than 4g, no visual problems or loss of consciousness were experienced.[29]Above 6g, 50% of pilots suffered visual problems, or "greyout". With 40%, vision vanished altogether from 7.5g upwards and black-out sometimes occurred.[30] Despite this blindness, the pilot could maintain consciousness and was capable of "bodily reactions". After more than three seconds, half the subjects passed out. The pilot would regain consciousness two or three seconds after the centrifugal forces had dropped below 3g and had lasted no longer than three seconds. In a crouched position, pilots could withstand 7.5g and were able to remain functional for a short duration. In this position, Junkers concluded that ⅔ of pilots could withstand 8g and perhaps 9g for three to five seconds without vision defects which, under war conditions, was acceptable.[31] During tests with the Ju 87 A-2, new technologies were tried out to reduce the effects of g. The pressurised cabin was of great importance during this research. Testing revealed that at high altitude, even 2g could cause death in an unpressurised cabin and without appropriate clothing. This new technology, along with special clothing and oxygen masks, was researched and tested. When the United States Army occupied the Junkers factory at Dessau on 21 April 1945, they were both impressed at and interested in the medical flight tests with the Ju 87.

 

 

Edited by =RS=Stix_09
typo
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I was sad to find I was too late for the open Beta enrollment, especially knowing that VR headsets with the angled lenses are a test subject. I have the Pimax 5K+ myself and would like to see improvements in FPS to that technology in this game. So native support.

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On 8/24/2019 at 1:03 AM, TheBlackPenguin said:

Hmm guess the collector planes?

 

Mosquito. Very good choice, and a popular one. Can they choose a version and get the info in the time allotted?

 

Hurricane: Doesn't really fit in the Bodenplatte period. If an earlier, popular "not used by another product" Western Front campaign is used then yes, but it would probably feature as part of the standard set.

 

Me410: Sure

 

Flyable B-25: Don't know, would seem a bit odd only having it AI driven with the option to upgrade to full flyable. The work entailed doesn't seem worth it..? Again, like the Hurricane maybe another Western Front or even Pacific expansion.

 

B-17, were they around Bodenplatte map at? I think the Lancaster was, however a lot of investment and I suspect (could be wrong) the first 4 engine heavies could be AI.

 

Typhoon: Probably between this or a Mosquito. Maybe easier to get the Typhoon into the sim than the Mosquito within time frame tey have given themselves.

 

Spitfire XIV: Same as the Typhoon...

 

Meteor: I would love this one, wasn't allowed to sky over Soviet or too far into enemy lands as they didn't want to give away the secret of the alloys used in the engine construction (there are interviews on Youtube stating this from what I recall and well not that it mattered, the Soviets were given engines by the succeeding Labour govt). It didn't face a lot of Luftwaffe opposition, by the time it deployed to the continent there wasn't much left of it. This doesn't matter here...

 

Avro Anson: All time winner here:

 

https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/blog/avro-ansons-vs-messerschmitt-109s-dunkirk-1940/

 

No prize to whoever actually gets it right, but a fun guess that plane nevertheless...

 

Looking forward to the whole new update, another glad they're not asking for my vital statistics to be inputted lol.

 

Add the picture feature isn't one I had thought of, what are you going to put in the cockpit with you? I might use my great-uncle...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

B-17 and/or B-24 would be amazing....

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29 minutes ago, MasterShake said:

 

B-17 and/or B-24 would be amazing....

Zero chance. They have already said that they can't/won't do the heavies (4 engine bombers) and the current engine cannot do the numbers necessary anyway. IL2 GBS just cannot do strategic bombing in it's current form.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/20/2019 at 1:11 AM, Soilworker said:

Re: G-Load Bar vs. Heavy Breathing. 

 

I for one find the idea of heavy breathing more immersion breaking than a small visual representation because it's not your own breathing, it'd just sound like someone breathing in your ears (well it already does.) (IMHO) 

 

I would say, regrading people not wanting the G-Load Bar, make possible to disable like the FPS counter. (I would also suggest making it independent from the HUD, again like the FPS counter.) 

 

 

In multiplayer having extra information is an advantage, so it would have to be a server setting.

I'm not a fan of any load bars , on a screen , it's immersion breaking. far more than a slight low volume heavy breathing sound is (done well it works , overdone it doesn't) Colour loss/sounds or something is better than that, a damn digital bar.

 

I like the way this is done on COD, but no matter what is done there will always be people that complain. Some want the arcade experience some want it more real.(though its prob wrong sim for arcade guys)

I  personally feel , you can't make it too real , its not possible...half of the players would get dizzy and vomit or have seizures at the keyboard, and  no one would want to fly a sim 🤮

 

Have a look at how much vibration is actually in  a cockpit , see this 109 video.(also note how cramped it is compared to in-game head movement, which would be impossible in a real BF109, unless you have a pinhead 👽)  Its more vibration than a pilot would see himself as camera is hard mounted on cockpit, but it still shows how much vibration is present)

 

Spoiler

Only a middle ground is possible to give a feel (doesn't need to be 100 accurate, I don't want all that vibration modelled or my head position pushed around by g loads for example). All I want is better immersion than a static cockpit like we currently have in IL-2 GB. I'm not keen either of feeling sick at my keyboard when I fly...none of us want that.  Neither do  i like to fly with realistic sound levels in the cockpit or wear ear muffs...  but we all want more immersion tho...

 

PS I hope you VR guys did not puke watching this video....🤢

Edited by =RS=Stix_09

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7 hours ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

I'm not a fan of any load bars , on a screen , it's immersion breaking. far more than a slight low volume heavy breathing sound is (done well it works , overdone it doesn't) Colour loss/sounds or something is better than that, a damn digital bar.

 

I would be great if devs gives us separete volume controls for the effects (the present ones as well as the ones that comes) so everyone can adjust it like he wants...

It would be great to be able to set volumes separately for engine, firing, breathing, radio comms etc...

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31 minutes ago, Tapi said:

It would be great to be able to set volumes separately for engine, firing, breathing, radio comms etc...

The problem with having separate volume controls is it would be exploited in multilayer. You would have folks flying around with no engine volume and listening for their opponents. From a personal view point I think probably one of only noises that we should be hearing is the engine sound. In warbirds the noise from the engines was exceptionally loud and pretty much drowned out everything else. I'm hoping one day for a implementation of some kind of flight helmet mode, that would maybe give us some control with radio chatter volume or voice chat etc. 

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9 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

The problem with having separate volume controls is it would be exploited in multilayer. You would have folks flying around with no engine volume and listening for their opponents. From a personal view point I think probably one of only noises that we should be hearing is the engine sound. In warbirds the noise from the engines was exceptionally loud and pretty much drowned out everything else. I'm hoping one day for a implementation of some kind of flight helmet mode, that would maybe give us some control with radio chatter volume or voice chat etc. 

You are probably right, but even despite that I would prefer to have the benefits of the separate volume controls (though I play in MP too).

And may be if minimal alllowed volume for engine could be define on the server side, it won't not be exploited in MP.

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One day, you lot will get to my age with hearing all effed up, where it's difficult to hear what people say over engine noise and other background acoustics.

Then people who make these bloody games 'will' put in separate volume control for radio chatter and comms, because my enjoyment of the game is nothing like other people's experience who still have excellent hearing.

 

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12 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

One day, you lot will get to my age with hearing all effed up

 

My missus is always telling me I have a hearing problem but I'm not sure if she is right, or I have selective hearing?

 

I would really like a system in place that controls radio and voice comms. Saying that, I'd like it so that we don't hear the thunderous cannon and MG fire (from inside the cockpit) as loud as it is now. Not to mention the damage impact sounds on the aircraft that sound like the house next door is being demolished.

Those Merlin's and DB's are "loud" and chatting with WWII pilots it was about the only sound they could hear from the cockpit.

I take your point though Trooper, we need a happy medium that pleases the majority of people. 

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28 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

One day, you lot will get to my age with hearing all effed up, where it's difficult to hear what people say over engine noise and other background acoustics.

Then people who make these bloody games 'will' put in separate volume control for radio chatter and comms, because my enjoyment of the game is nothing like other people's experience who still have excellent hearing.

 

 

by default i could not here guys on ts3, so i have to have game volume lovered to 5% in windows volume mixer ( in game sounds at 100%) , and that works ok for me, i can hear all ok from game and ppl on ts3.

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9 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

 

I take your point though Trooper, we need a happy medium that pleases the majority of people. 

 

Why? Because MP is infested with scumbags?  Why not have options so that we can all have what we want - or need, in the case of us deaf oldies?

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1 minute ago, unreasonable said:

 

Why? Because MP is infested with scumbags?

Whoa! Not everyone who invests time in MP is a scumbag.

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4 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Whoa! Not everyone who invests time in MP is a scumbag.

 

I never said that they were: but the problem seems to be that you only need a few for features to be stripped out of the game to prevent cheating: and here you are making the argument that having different sound sliders would lead to cheating.  If you have to take that kind of preventative measures,  sounds like an infestation to me. For those of us who play SP this is intensely annoying - we recently lost custom camera positions for exactly this reason.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

you are making the argument that having different sound sliders would lead to cheating.

And that is why I made the point about having a happy medium for the majority. 

 

8 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

I never said that they were: but the problem seems to be that you only need a few for features to be stripped out of the game to prevent cheating:

Cheating in computer games has been going on since their inception. Hell, people even cheat in single player games. 

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1 minute ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

And that is why I made the point about having a happy medium for the majority. 

 

Cheating in computer games has been going on since their inception. Hell, people even cheat in single player games. 

Yes there are cheat, but i don't think there are so much in our kind of game. It's not a FPS which have more people who play, and where the score is very important. I know that for some of players the score is more important than the result of the mission, but for me, most of the player want to achieve a mission (i can be wrong).

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6 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

And that is why I made the point about having a happy medium for the majority. 

 

Cheating in computer games has been going on since their inception. Hell, people even cheat in single player games. 

 

And that is why I made the point that I do not want to lose functionality or options that I want or need from a game because some people cheat. And given the developers' statements that MP accounts for about 10% of buyers, where is this "majority" of which you speak? 

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4 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

MP accounts for about 10% of buyers, where is this "majority" of which you speak? 

I talking about functions that will please the majority of people, both SP and MP.

You can't turn down an engine sound in a real aircraft but you can turn down the volume of your headset or speakers. It depends want you want from your game doesn't it?  We have one group that want a fairly realistic experience (if possible) and others that want sliders and other "functions". I'm happy to try and please as many people as possible (which is impossible) but TBH I'm fed up to the back teeth of this SP v MP BS.  

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4 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

I talking about functions that will please the majority of people, both SP and MP.

You can't turn down an engine sound in a real aircraft but you can turn down the volume of your headset or speakers. It depends want you want from your game doesn't it?  We have one group that want a fairly realistic experience (if possible) and others that want sliders and other "functions". I'm happy to try and please as many people as possible (which is impossible) but TBH I'm fed up to the back teeth of this SP v MP BS.  

 

And I am fed up with features or potential options being taken away from the SP game because people in MP might - or do - use them to cheat. In most cases, if you want to please the maximum number of people, you provide the maximum number of options based on a happy medium vanilla.  No-one in SP wants to limit options if they can be added at a reasonably low programming cost - this is purely a MP issue.


You have said it yourself in this thread -  "The problem with having separate volume controls is it would be exploited in multilayer."  So please do not tell me this is BS - it is a real problem for this title, affecting options for sound, graphics, camera positions and mods.  My ideal solution would be to split the code so you buy separate MP or SP versions.   (SPexit ;) )

 

 

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1 minute ago, unreasonable said:

No-one in SP wants to limit options if they can be added at a reasonably low programming cost - this is purely a MP issue.

 

The amount of work being done behind the scenes to make SP a much better experience is mind boggling.

11 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

So please do not tell me this is BS - it is a real problem for this title,

So what do you want? An arcade style game where you can "switch off" sound options or manipulate it to your will or do you want a reasonable ( or unreasonable) ;) attempt at a WWII air combat simulator. On the rare occasion that I fly in SP I want a fairly realistic experience , so no icons,no outside view etc. You also have folk that like to role-play. Yes, I understand that you can turn functions on and off but in an online environment they can and will be exploited. 

 Hopefully we will get some sort of anti-cheat mode at some point?

16 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

My ideal solution would be to split the code so you buy separate MP or SP versions.   (SPexit ;) )

 

You get my vote

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2 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

 


So what do you want? An arcade style game where you can "switch off" sound options or manipulate it to your will or do you want a reasonable ( or unreasonable) ;) attempt at a WWII air combat simulator. On the rare occasion that I fly in SP I want a fairly realistic experience , so no icons,no outside view etc. You also have folk that like to role-play.


Here is the thing: with sound sliders you could have, if you want, a more realistic experience than you get now. The original gun sounds and sound mix vs engines in this game were a much better representation of what a pilot could actually hear when firing than the more recent "Hollywood" gun sounds, based on the accounts I have read. Enough people like the newer sounds so we are stuck with them, but with sliders we could have a more realistic sound mix.  

 

Even if people chose less realistic options in SP, so what? Why should anyone care how anyone else plays their SP game? I play my SP much like you - clean screen, DiD, but it does not bother me at all that others play with VR, mouse aim or helpers.  This is not about what is "arcade" vs "realistic" - it is about choice, and the tension between those who think that more choice is better vs those who want uniformity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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In regards to the engine noise sliders, etc...hear me out here.

If EVERYONE's engine is on the same slider (i.e. engine noise in the cockpit and external engine noise), then it could work and not be exploitable. If I turn my own engine sounds down to nothing, and that also means that engine sounds outside the cockpit are diminished at the same rate, then proportionally the sounds would be the same and I wouldn't be able to, for example, hear an enemy coming up on my six o'clock.
 

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1 hour ago, Habu said:

Yes there are cheat, but i don't think there are so much in our kind of game. It's not a FPS which have more people who play, and where the score is very important. I know that for some of players the score is more important than the result of the mission, but for me, most of the player want to achieve a mission (i can be wrong).

Your assessments may be correct, but who is to know? My view is that online play may approximate a pyramid system in which there are organized groups at the top and cannon fodder beneath. How much time should I invest in MP in order to change my perspective? Routinely in RoF I meticulously scanned the sky as I climbed higher in order to keep SA, only to be jumped by another player who seemed to appear out of nowhere. When hit, there were seemingly only two effects. I was either wounded or blinded by an oil leak. OTOH in SP I could put numerous hits into enemy aircraft and they continued to fly. The only effect was gradual exhaustion of all the available damage decals until finally there was a PK and/or fire engulfment of the enemy aircraft. Taken together, these contrasts seemed to defy logic. Now add ping effects into that mix. If there were a ready means whereby online 1v1 matches could be had I might feel differently. Lacking that I don't think that my bias will change. Frankly IDK why MP requirements would deserve to be placed above all others.

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Posted (edited)

So online you don't see people who are attacking you and they kill you quickly and offline when you shoot at unskilled AI you have trouble hitting anything important.  Hmmm,  I have been playing for years & years and I get the same problem but I always blamed it on my lack of skill.  Sounds like it is actually a bug 😉

 

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex
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24 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Taken together, these contrasts seemed to defy logic.

 

There is actually a very logical explanation for this.

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