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Gungriffen

Why do all flight sims refuse to adopt voice chat?!

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Seriously!
I love flight sims (I'm sitting at around $2k in flight equipment and software so I'm invested) but I have found the lack of voice chat in a genre that borderlines require it very strange.
No IL2 title, Digital Combat Simulator, or even War Thunder has the basic 1997 ability to push to talk when in reality we should have fully simulated radio systems!
Typing while dog fighting use to be completely unreasonable but now that I've switched to VR it's an impossibility to fight and type as I can't see the keyboard requiring me to use the thing like a blind person reading brail.
This genre relys on 3rd party systems like Teamspeak and Discord yet it's not uncommon to join a server of 55+ players and only 8 total for both teams on the 3rd party software, even worse in DCS where you need a complete mod called Simple Radio installed as well as Teamspeak up and plug in running. The lack of ability to ask "Is there a friendly in 0222" before flying 15 minutes to find out or to call for help while dog fighting or clarify if you're the one gunning or being gunned when help arrives, or to say "I lost you in the clouds what altitude/heading are you?" seems as basic as having the ability to map keys yet here we are.

My setup says "Come fly."
But the games punishes me for VR.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

Discord works fine.

 

It depends on what you want from your communication. There are some features lacking (like whisper to other channel or whisper to specific users) that TeamSpeak provided (unless that has been fixed).

 

But for me, (others might not care for it), one of the features lacking is integration into the game including things like radio capabilities of the plane you are flying as well as LOS/Range limits relating to those capabilities.

 

I really enjoy the way SRS integrates into DCS. Using the FA18s UFC to change frequency etc. And for most servers the integration is seamless with the join on server connect.

Edited by =EXPEND=Tripwire

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There are 3rd party comms packages and most flight sIm developers are probably barely able to keep their heads above water.  That’s why.

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an ingame radio comms would be awesome for simulation, like the Elite Dangerous one... or a plugin for TS like ACRE2 or TFAR for Arma 3 has...
I know the developers would have to make the radios work ingame..

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And no one would use it.  They set up a GB teamspeak server and hardly anyone uses that. 

 

I don't know why, but lots of people who play MP have no interest in joining voice comms.  And those that do are isolated with their squad or buddies.

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Funny if I go play games with proper squad based communication systems everyone's on voice chat. Squads system could be implemented into il2. You join the server and players create flights of 3-4 planes. You can join these flights and talk between your flight, maybe allow you to change frequency to the whole squadron allowing tactical communications. There's so much that could be added by a few features with semi realistic radio systems. There's a few people on here who are basically anti in game voice chat for whatever reason. Arguments they use are borderline insane. There's no reason we shouldn't eventually get a functioning radio system added to the game. Maybe one day we will see it. The last DD showed clearly they are not afraid to go big. They even went and got an AI programmer to hopefully fix that portion of the game up. 

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19 minutes ago, JonRedcorn said:

Funny if I go play games with proper squad based communication systems everyone's on voice chat. Squads system could be implemented into il2. You join the server and players create flights of 3-4 planes. You can join these flights and talk between your flight, maybe allow you to change frequency to the whole squadron allowing tactical communications. There's so much that could be added by a few features with semi realistic radio systems. There's a few people on here who are basically anti in game voice chat for whatever reason. Arguments they use are borderline insane. There's no reason we shouldn't eventually get a functioning radio system added to the game. 

 

Yes, I suppose that they could spend lots money and time to reinvent Teamspeak.  But why?  We already have Teamspeak.  

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1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Yes, I suppose that they could spend lots money and time to reinvent Teamspeak.  But why?  We already have Teamspeak.  

 

Just speaking from personal experience, I've looked for popular Teamspeak and Discord servers but I've rarely seen anyone online at least during the times when I usually play. With a small playerbase fragmented across multiple voice comm apps and private squad servers, I've found it difficult to locate others to communicate with on most occasions. As a result, I usually don't bother to even check Teamspeak or Discord and just rely on keyboard communication with the efficiency of a deaf pilot using sign language from the cockpit.

 

Having played games like Aces High, I think that integrated voice communication would do a lot to increase the fun factor of the online experience. I believe that if it's available in game, more people would be inclined to use it regularly. Of course squads will still use their own dedicated Teamspeak and Discord servers but, I think in game PTT would naturally facilitate a higher level of overall team based strategy and coordination than we currently see as well as it's obvious usefulness for "check six" calls and aiding in dogfight communication with random teammates.

 

Of course, it would come at a cost of lost development time in other areas. "Is it worth it?", is a question only for the developers to ask and since we don't have in game voice comms it would seem obvious then that answer is "No," or at least, "not yet."

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2 minutes ago, Niner said:

 

 With a small playerbase fragmented across multiple voice comm apps and private squad servers

 

It’s fragmented by choice.  There is a BoX Teamspeak server, but hardly anyone uses it.  Lots of people who set up their own Discord or Teamspeak server LOCK them behind a password.  Does that really seem like a group of people that is ready for a kumbaya moment on a community comms system?

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3 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

It’s fragmented by choice.  There is a BoX Teamspeak server, but hardly anyone uses it.  Lots of people who set up their own Discord or Teamspeak server LOCK them behind a password.  Does that really seem like a group of people that is ready for a kumbaya moment on a community comms system?

 

Yes. As I said, these folks would still use their private servers and could also make use of the in game PTT system when necessary. I lock the door to my home AND speak to people when I'm in public. I don't see a problem.

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1 minute ago, Niner said:

 

Yes. As I said, these folks would still use their private servers and could also make use of the in game PTT system when necessary. I lock the door to my home AND speak to people when I'm in public. I don't see a problem.

 

The problem is that we’ve already got a public comms system, and NO ONE USES IT!!

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If you're going to resort to shouting then perhaps that's a good thing.

 

But if the comm system were integrated into the game with a simple PTT keybind perhaps that would more easily facilitate it's use rather than another third party app to download and setup. I could be wrong but I don't believe that I am. In any case, this function doesn't currently exist so it likely hasn't been feasibly worth the developer's time.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

It’s fragmented by choice.  There is a BoX Teamspeak server, but hardly anyone uses it.  Lots of people who set up their own Discord or Teamspeak server LOCK them behind a password.  Does that really seem like a group of people that is ready for a kumbaya moment on a community comms system?

Hardly anyone plays multiplayer according to jason and the numbers we have why even waste time developing it? Honestly should just cut the whole multiplayer portion since a measly 5% of the playerbase uses it. Great argument. Nobody uses it because nobody even knows it exists. Each server has their own discord, using in game chat vs having to download, find and setup servers for the game is a no brainer which one would get more use. One's a pain in the ass to use the other requires a button push. Your arguments are misinformed and completely off base.

 

Literally every argument you make on this forum is contrarian in nature. You don't even actually have any principals or ideals of your own you just go against the grain whenever possible because you enjoy it. That much is clear. Truly sad.

Edited by JonRedcorn
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2 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

 

Literally every argument you make on this forum is contrarian in nature. You don't even actually have any principals or ideals of your own you just go against the grain whenever possible because you enjoy it. That much is clear. Truly sad.

 

 Do you know what an ad hominem logical fallacy is?  No?  Maybe you should Google it.

 

And Jason has NEVER said that "hardly anyone" plays MP.

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Most people who use comms already use discord or team speak. In game would be convenient but not change the landscape as much as people think. The elephant in the room is whether Dserver can handle all the voice traffic without breaking. It’s temperamental to begin with. 

 

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Posted (edited)

I'm a regular TeamSpeak user when I play.  It already does what I want it to do in terms of voice communication.

 

While I think it would be interesting to have built-in 'range accurate' radios in the planes, I also think that 85% of the time, my preferred setting for it would be "off".  That may be a more common sentiment than expected and would certainly be a deciding factor in whether or not the development time is worth it. 

Edited by =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ
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12 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

 Do you know what an ad hominem logical fallacy is?  No?  Maybe you should Google it.

 

And Jason has NEVER said that "hardly anyone" plays MP.

5% 

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Whenever I go into MP I prefer not to use voice comms at all.    If it were officially incorporated into the game I would still choose not to use it.

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I'd like to preface this post by stating that I'm not asking for voice comms or anything else to be added to the game. I believe in giving consumer feedback where desired but otherwise accepting a product as is; "take it or leave it." The reason for my post is to satisfy my own curiosity.

 

And so for the sake of curiosity I ask, to those who have stated that they would opt out of an in game comm system (if one existed), do you currently refrain from using the in game keyboard chat system as well?

 

I ask because, while I don't imagine that an integrated voice chat would suddenly pull every recluse from his hideaway, I am of the opinion that those who currently type would opt in to pressing a button and speaking instead. This would, in my mind, be a relevant change in landscape. Adding to that the number of times that I, and others as well I assume, have wanted to relay pertinent battlefield information to their team mates but can't be bothered to take hands off of the HOTAS and reach for the keyboard. For me, that would be a game changer.

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I play Games like Arma 3, Hell Let Loose, Squad and Post Scriptum, some of which have simple to use Squad Based Voice Comm, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY a Mute Function that is only 2 Clicks away if People annoy you.

Having a Voice Chat just ingame in my Experience leads to about 80% of People listening and 40% Talking. Not everybody has a good Mike, but most have Speakers.

 

A simple Squad based Command Structure, always with a managable Number of People involved in Voice Comm is nice and makes for easy Coordination among Squad Leaders.

For those who Play X-Plane or FSX with the IVAO Multiplayer Mod, you will know the Teamspeak 2 (TWO!!!) plugin which offers a pretty good Voice Service and is already developed to interact with Games and Radios such as FSX and X-Plane.

Integrating it into Il-2 would be almost seamless I guess if done well.

 

And in Flight Sims we can count on the Playerbase not to be complete Cunts, it's just the Nature of the Beast(ly Machines we fly and the average of all you old Farts).

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There are DCS servers that require a user to be connected through Simple Radio in order to fly.

If Il-2 opened up their API and would make the radios functional a little so that Simple Radio can be used, I wouldn't mind it being mandatory on some servers.

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Boy I wish people would stop saying "There is already Teamspeak/Discord"
RIGHT NOW AT THIS VERY MINUTE! Wings of Liberty Server has 93/100 players!
RIGHT NOW THERE IS 93 players on and I AM THE ONLY one in their Teamspeak...

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12 minutes ago, Gungriffen said:

Boy I wish people would stop saying "There is already Teamspeak/Discord"
RIGHT NOW AT THIS VERY MINUTE! Wings of Liberty Server has 93/100 players!
RIGHT NOW THERE IS 93 players on and I AM THE ONLY one in their Teamspeak...

 

That ought to be a hint about how many people will use a community comms system.

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Posted (edited)

That sir is delusional.
While there probably wont be idle chatter if I called your name on a VOIP there is a 95% chance you'll answer.
Have you ever played any other game in 20 years? How common is it in any game with voice chat that no one will speak?
Now how many Sims? I've never experienced a team based sim where people refuse to speak, it's actually the opposite.
People don't like running two programs. Most people don't have two screens to monitor the other program, they don't like setting it up, and when they get on no one is on so they leave and a few minutes later someone else shows up and sees no one is there and leaves so the server never fills.

 

 

Edited by Gungriffen
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Just now, Gungriffen said:

That sir is delusional.
While there probably wont be idle chatter if I called your name on a VOIP there is a 95% chance you'll answer.

 

No, there's actually a 100% chance that I won't.  If I'm on comms it will be with guys I know and I'm used to flying with.  That appears to be the same for lots of people who use comms.  Community comms is practically useless even when there are people in there.  That's probably why no one uses it.  Adding it into the game just means a lot of resources for another useless system.

 

Look at the people who responded to your post.  Most won't use comms.  And the others I would not want to be on comms with.  But if you guys really want to talk to each other, use Teamspeak!

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Jesus Christ most of this forum is you screaming no and you counted yourself as the majority for it.
Maybe it's best you do play alone.

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4 minutes ago, Gungriffen said:

Jesus Christ most of this forum is you screaming no and you counted yourself as the majority for it.
Maybe it's best you do play alone.

 

Maybe you should go back and look at some of the responses. 

 

Believe me, I used to wonder why more people weren't on comms when I played RoF.  It has nothing to do with no in game comms.  It's because they're using their own comms or they have no interest in being on comms.  After many years of reading this forum, I definitely sympathize with that position a lot more than I used to.

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With a small Dev team and more important things to focus on I don't mind there not being a voice chat in BoX. I'm one of those people who wouldn't use them as I have a great deal of social anxiety when it comes to that kind of thing. But given enough time I'm sure Jason and the rest of the crew could come up with something to please everyone. 

 

But, as it is, discord and other teamspeak software is already in place for the sim and most people are fine with that. There's no reason to tear each other apart because of it.

 

It would be nice to have it, but I don't see it as a very serious priority since half, or only a few the 5% of the mp players are wanting it.

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All my forays into voice coms go something like this:

 

 

 

*NEW PLAYER*

 

"...but the GTS is definitely the better car."

 

"Hey y'all.  This is uh, Jay-Gee Feeftie Tew, Uh... Werner Moelders here.  Uh, Hey y'all... w'sup?"

 

Infinite_Valor: "Oh hey Moelders"

 

JG52_Werner_Moelders: "Oh hey Infinite_Valor, w'sup?"

 

"I had a GTS once. They..."

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone: "I SEE TWO BANDITS. TWO BANDITS, HEADING THESE WAY!!!"

 

Wants_2B_Yr_Wingman: "Norwegian guy; What location?"

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone: "OF TOO MY LEFT!"

 

Wants_2B_Yr_Wingman: "No, no. I mean what grid refere..."

 

*NEW PLAYER*

 

Cyrillic_login guy:  ".........."

 

*PLAYER Exited*

 

Cyrillic_login guy exited...

 

"...its all about the cars..."

 

Blind Guy in a Dark Closet:  "There's someone on the ground parked next to me.  Is that you B2?"

 

Second Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "I don't know.  Is that you flashing your lights B1?"

 

First Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "No. The guy next to me is firing his guns.  Who is that firing his guns next to me???"

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone:  "THEY ARE CLOSER NOW!!"

 

Wants_2B_Yr_Wingman: "Where???"

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone:  "FREE TOUSAND METRES...!"

 

Wants_2B_Yr_Wingman: "Yes, but..."

 

First Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "The person next to me, please move..."

 

Candy wrapper guy:  **crackle-crackle**

 

"...even more cool cars that I can name..."

 

First Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "Please..."

 

*NEW PLAYER*

 

Cyrillic_login guy: "...."

 

JG52_Werner_Moelders: "Oh hey Cyrillic_login guy, w'sup?"

 

*PLAYER Exited*

 

Cyrillic_login guy exited...

 

JG52_Werner_Moelders: "Aww..."

 

Infinite_Valor: "I have to go..."

 

Infinite_Valor: "Mom says I have to clean the yard"

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone:  "HELP ME!!!"

 

First Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "Is that you in the Focke, B1?"

 

Second Blind guy in a dark closet: "No, I'm in the Heinkel"

 

Wants_2B_Yr_Wingman: "Norwegian accent guy with the new microphone, you have to tell me where..."

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone:  "I'M TAKING HITS!!!"

 

First Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "I thought you said you were in the Focke."

 

Second Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "That's right. I'm definitely in the Messer."

 

First Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "Wait, what?"

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone:  "TEY ARE A TACKY WHY WON"T YOU HELP ME???"

 

Wants_2B_Yr_Wingman: "Dude, You have to tell me WHERE"

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone:  "AT MY SIX O'CLOCK!!!"

 

Wants_2B_Your_Wingman: "Oh for crying out LOUD!"

 

JG52_Werner_Moelders: "Oh Hey... W'sup?"

 

:wacko:

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Thats like that, because in a sim, players need to talk to each other for at least a few minutes(or more, you know, we are people 😄 ) before they take off. We do that like this in HRAF, this way, new players feel themselves comfortable, so they will feel that shouting wont help him, or anybody. 
Cool head, great time. 

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1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

All my forays into voice coms go something like this:

 

 

 

*NEW PLAYER*

 

"...but the GTS is definitely the better car."

 

"Hey y'all.  This is uh, Jay-Gee Feeftie Tew, Uh... Werner Moelders here.  Uh, Hey y'all... w'sup?"

 

Infinite_Valor: "Oh hey Moelders"

 

JG52_Werner_Moelders: "Oh hey Infinite_Valor, w'sup?"

 

"I had a GTS once. They..."

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone: "I SEE TWO BANDITS. TWO BANDITS, HEADING THESE WAY!!!"

 

Wants_2B_Yr_Wingman: "Norwegian guy; What location?"

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone: "OF TOO MY LEFT!"

 

Wants_2B_Yr_Wingman: "No, no. I mean what grid refere..."

 

*NEW PLAYER*

 

Cyrillic_login guy:  ".........."

 

*PLAYER Exited*

 

Cyrillic_login guy exited...

 

"...its all about the cars..."

 

Blind Guy in a Dark Closet:  "There's someone on the ground parked next to me.  Is that you B2?"

 

Second Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "I don't know.  Is that you flashing your lights B1?"

 

First Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "No. The guy next to me is firing his guns.  Who is that firing his guns next to me???"

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone:  "THEY ARE CLOSER NOW!!"

 

Wants_2B_Yr_Wingman: "Where???"

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone:  "FREE TOUSAND METRES...!"

 

Wants_2B_Yr_Wingman: "Yes, but..."

 

First Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "The person next to me, please move..."

 

Candy wrapper guy:  **crackle-crackle**

 

"...even more cool cars that I can name..."

 

First Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "Please..."

 

*NEW PLAYER*

 

Cyrillic_login guy: "...."

 

JG52_Werner_Moelders: "Oh hey Cyrillic_login guy, w'sup?"

 

*PLAYER Exited*

 

Cyrillic_login guy exited...

 

JG52_Werner_Moelders: "Aww..."

 

Infinite_Valor: "I have to go..."

 

Infinite_Valor: "Mom says I have to clean the yard"

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone:  "HELP ME!!!"

 

First Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "Is that you in the Focke, B1?"

 

Second Blind guy in a dark closet: "No, I'm in the Heinkel"

 

Wants_2B_Yr_Wingman: "Norwegian accent guy with the new microphone, you have to tell me where..."

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone:  "I'M TAKING HITS!!!"

 

First Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "I thought you said you were in the Focke."

 

Second Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "That's right. I'm definitely in the Messer."

 

First Blind Guy in a Dark Closet: "Wait, what?"

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone:  "TEY ARE A TACKY WHY WON"T YOU HELP ME???"

 

Wants_2B_Yr_Wingman: "Dude, You have to tell me WHERE"

 

Norwegian accent guy with new microphone:  "AT MY SIX O'CLOCK!!!"

 

Wants_2B_Your_Wingman: "Oh for crying out LOUD!"

 

JG52_Werner_Moelders: "Oh Hey... W'sup?"

 

:wacko:

 

and thats why most users play on their own ts3 and avoid general ts3s, your better flying alone then in general ts3 with ppl who would rather talk about stuff then focused on game... you quickly realise you cant do mutch coordinate play that way. So in game voice system, would be mutch wors and turned off from start, with ts3 you can always just switch channal or ts3 when anoying perople show up.

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I think if VOIP was built into the game more people would use it. That’s a pretty safe assumption. The separate programs are confusing to use and set up. 

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What are the two radio's in modern planes? UHF and V/UHF? 
In Simple Radio (I believe WWII planes had a similar system) you have UHF with I believe 10 channels and V/UHF with 9 channels plus a radio tuner.
This allows you to have a server wide chat channel with one Push to Talk and a second Push to talk for your Squadron/Wingman.
Everything important is broadcasted on over the server chat and cars are talked about in the squad chat. 
You then have volume and even on/off switches for each radio.

Works great when in servers that forces Simple Radio.

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The WWII aircraft had preset channels. For wing and group levels etc. There are so few people using comms anyways, one universal chat would be enough and probably wouldn’t get used much. Multiple channels definitely wouldn’t get used. 

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6 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

The WWII aircraft had preset channels. For wing and group levels etc. There are so few people using comms anyways, one universal chat would be enough and probably wouldn’t get used much. Multiple channels definitely wouldn’t get used. 

 

 

It would be insanely short sighted to have only one channel, regardless of frequency of use. It would be useless as it would be constantly jammed. Separate channels - or like was mentioned above - a Squad like system would be fine.

 

Regarding your comment about 3rd party programs like Discord and Teamspeak being complicated - if you're capable of flying the sim, you're capable of figuring out the comms. Unless of course you're one of the folk I see taxiing into various objects on the ground while trying to take of straight from your starting position.

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36 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

There are so few people using comms anyways

There are an awful lot of people using comms. The issue we have is the distributed nature of the comms platforms being used & the barriers to entry / reliance on private channels etc. Something more similar to the SRS  functionality or The Other Sim would be very much welcomed. I would be surprised if something along these lines was not a key part of the Air Marshal package currently in development.

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Feathered’s situation is probably quite common.  The next most common situation seems to be near total silence with the occasional cough or sneeze.  Community comms is practically useless.  

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