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von_Tom

Valve Index website now live

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my Index is on the way today per Fedex :)  I don't expect the performance hit to be any different from my VivePro but I'll definitely do a nice comparison against it..

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Horna, I don't do GA normally so I cannot really judge from past using Vive, etc, but I did a very very quick test as you asked. I had a hard time spotting them from 3000m(not sure if that is the ideal alt to look from). Once I had spotted them the detail was very good, like I say in my first post the picture clarity on the objects and aircraft detail is better than the Vive. Not sure its going to make it easy to spot ground objects, some one down the line who does GA might be better to answer that, sorry.

<S>

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Posted (edited)

it's here...

 

image.png.9f84db6dd9b3d119cb1fd3accbf06c9e.png

 

image.png.2753e62c1091a01efa70d0efaf6056d5.png

 

i'll post the highlights a bit later.. 😄

 

Edited by pomdeterre
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Man I'm so jealous. It's still not being sold to us Aussies. My Vive is so worn out now. I got it April 5 2016, and there haven't been too many days where it hasn't been used.

 

Wish I could buy the index.

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Ok, it's not for me.

 

for SALE: 

INDEX HMD (only), 10 minute use. Shipping - USA only.

Price:  $499  +  Shipping (~$30/40 via UPS I presume)

 

review INDEX vs. VivePro+gearVR mod

game played:   IL2  only

 

Pro's:   

- great fit, nice audio.

- The FOV is definitely larger than the VivePro I have. It feels 10 degrees more, definitely fills up my view up/down left/right with the lenses as close to my face as possible, and once extended further it starts to feel like VivePro. Definitely an improvement.

- The blacks are much better than the 5K+ I tried (pitool 121 at that time), not as good as on VivePro but totally OK otherwise.

- color contrast for up close scene is very good, however it diminishes the further out you look, I think that's because of the LCD backlighting more than anything

- the cockpit in Il2 looks very very sharp with 2,200x2,200 SteamVR resolution.

- physical IPD adjustment works great, quick and all...

- set up was quick, just swapped VivePro for Index, didn't make any changes to my setup whatsoever and was running the game 30 seconds later.

 

Con's:  

-  This is my extremely subjective point:  LCD screen is not for me, after trying a 3rd HMD I can surely say it's either OLED or nothing at all. The backlight creates this ever lasting 'haze' effect in my eyes, like I spent an hour in the pool swimming without goggles. This maybe attributed to LCD+fresnel together. In my VivePro with GearVR mod I get 0 rays/haze, the picture is simply clear and that's it.

-  SDE - there's something funky with it, and I think it's some sort of a brain processing artifact. It pops in and out depending on the movement of my head and eyes. If I'm still it's pretty much gone, however with movement it shows up and this change in noSDE-to-yesSDE-backtonoSDE is something you need to get used to I guess.  Or.. it could just be my brain/eyes..

- getting the eye relief as short as possible (i.e. moving lenses to your face as close as possible) adds an unpleasant pressure on the eyebrows, however I think as small foam cushion will solve that without much problems.

 

Closing comments:

- I didn't try any refresh modes other than the default 90hz. The LCD haze was so off-putting that I didn't see the need, even from a tech point of view 😄 (sorry, guys).

- I didn't like Odyssey+ and Pimax 5K+ for exact same reason as Index, i.e. LCD.

- If INDEX were OLED I would swap VivePro for it in a heartbeat.

 

cheers.

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Samsung is AMOLED, not LCD.  Thanks for the review, does it get a bit warm on the eyes wearing it?  One thing I can't stand on any unit, results in a wet sweat soaked HMD and dry irritated eyes.

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1 hour ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Samsung is AMOLED, not LCD.  Thanks for the review, does it get a bit warm on the eyes wearing it?  One thing I can't stand on any unit, results in a wet sweat soaked HMD and dry irritated eyes.

 

well, didn't use for a long time (10 mins), it's hard to tell, the padding looks like any other foam padding out there... judging by how close you can bring the lenses to your eyes and the reported higher temps from other users i'd say there's a chance it's a warmth inducing unit. But, with a proper room AC you'll be totally fine. 😄

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Posted (edited)
12 часов назад, pomdeterre сказал:

 

Closing comments:

- I didn't try any refresh modes other than the default 90hz. The LCD haze was so off-putting that I didn't see the need, even from a tech point of view 😄 (sorry, guys).

- I didn't like Odyssey+ and Pimax 5K+ for exact same reason as Index, i.e. LCD.

- If INDEX were OLED I would swap VivePro for it in a heartbeat.

 

cheers.

I had the same feeling when I put my index at the beginning. But the thing is that it is not that lcd display colors are bad, it is that game developers used oled display vr set, and they set colors for that type of display. So, I used lefunestes mod to adjust colors, and now i set them pretty much what I feel like I had in vive pro with lens mod, but with wide fov and without those lens distortions. I love index's sound and mic. The only thing that I don't like is godrays.

Edited by =LwS=Balapan

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Posted (edited)
10 часов назад, [CPT]Crunch сказал:

Samsung is AMOLED, not LCD.  Thanks for the review, does it get a bit warm on the eyes wearing it?  One thing I can't stand on any unit, results in a wet sweat soaked HMD and dry irritated eyes.

My index was getting really hot when I tried it first time, but now I think it was due to bad display port connection I had, that also led to snow like effect visible on black and couple times it lost connection from pc. But after I reconnected headset to a different display port, connection issues were gone, and I feel like the headset is not hot anymore, it still tends to warm on the front top, but not as much.

Edited by =LwS=Balapan

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This might be an issue too if you guys find the colors washed out >

 image.thumb.png.43586fb8b14a79fb88c45ed0d83e43e2.png

 

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6 hours ago, =LwS=Balapan said:

I had the same feeling when I put my index at the beginning. But the thing is that it is not that lcd display colors are bad, it is that game developers used oled display vr set, and they set colors for that type of display. So, I used lefunestes mod to adjust colors, and now i set them pretty much what I feel like I had in vive pro with lens mod, but with wide fov and without those lens distortions. I love index's sound and mic. The only thing that I don't like is godrays.

 

how is the SDE for you? To me the popping in&out SDE behavior is distracting, especially when it looks like "lines" and not just the individual pixels..

4 hours ago, Horna said:

This might be an issue too if you guys find the colors washed out >

 image.thumb.png.43586fb8b14a79fb88c45ed0d83e43e2.png

 

 

thanks for the hint, however my steamvr has been removed/installed/reinstalled in the past week, so it's definitely not the reason.

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6 hours ago, =LwS=Balapan said:

My index was getting really hot when I tried it first time, but now I think it was due to bad display port connection I had, that also led to snow like effect visible on black and couple times it lost connection from pc. But after I reconnected headset to a different display port, connection issues were gone, and I feel like the headset is not hot anymore, it still tends to warm on the front top, but not as much.

What card did you use? I wasnt aware of too many differences regarding th DPs.

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4 часа назад, pomdeterre сказал:

how is the SDE for you? To me the popping in&out SDE behavior is distracting, especially when it looks like "lines" and not just the individual pixels..

Before I adjusted colors I did feel like sde was as in Pimax 5k+, but after I added more saturation and contrast to the picture for some reason it felt more like vive pro. I even hooked up pimax back to see how it looks with adjusted colors, but it still was not close to index and vive pro.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, =LwS=Balapan said:

Before I adjusted colors I did feel like sde was as in Pimax 5k+, but after I added more saturation and contrast to the picture for some reason it felt more like vive pro. I even hooked up pimax back to see how it looks with adjusted colors, but it still was not close to index and vive pro.

 

well, the SDE in my case is popping in and and out. Take a look at the pic below, I managed to capture the difference between non-moving position and then when I moved my head to the left by 2 degrees. You'll notice how smooth the top image and how different the bottom one is because of those sudden vertical lines. Unfortunately I can't capture the RGB sub-pixels in these vertical lines, it'll require some stationary DSLR capturing test rig to see those.. But the vertical lines are extremely apparent regardless.

 

qFvR3HB.png

Edited by pomdeterre

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Posted (edited)

wow that sweet spot is unreal and the image looks great. Definitely wish I had gone with a vive originally I would of had the lighthouses already and could of just bought the headset.  The biggest plus for me with this thing is the massive clarity the lens has, it seems like it's clear from edge to edge. The o+ gets very blurry right outside the center. This screen cap of that video pretty much just shows how much better the clarity is vs everything else. That text is readable from top to bottom.

 

 

wowindex.jpg

Edited by JgonRedcorn
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Don't know what that guy has been smoking, but text doesn't look like that on the Pimax5K+.

 

Very "scientific"... 😂

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Posted (edited)

My index arrived and glare ain't a problem, at least with this title. 

Whiuh 🤗

 

 

"Glare test, holy fuck the index looks horrible!"

Screenshot_20190629-205954.jpg

Edited by LLv24_StableAce

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, StableAce said:

Glare test, holy fuck the index looks horrible!

Screenshot_20190629-205954.jpg

 

I can confirm Index's glare levels are pretty high compared to my VivePro. One other thing I can say though is that I have 0 glare in my VivePro after the gearVR mod and the above picture of VivePro does not represent my setup. There is absolutely no glare, no god rays, simply nothing distracting you from enjoying the OLED in all its glory.

Edited by pomdeterre

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My index arrived today, but I will not have time to test it until the weekend... 😞

As usual, I will try to do some through-the lens picture comparing with Pimax5K+ for spot, ID and gauges.

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58 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

My index arrived today, but I will not have time to test it until the weekend... 😞

As usual, I will try to do some through-the lens picture comparing with Pimax5K+ for spot, ID and gauges.

 

Thoughts of the Index compared to the Rift will be most welcome.

 

von Tom

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Hey guys,  I couldn´t resist the temptation, skipped some kids time (what a bad father!) and tried the Index for an hour (but allowed one of the kids to try it, so not so bad father).

 

Initial impressions with quick mission builder in Lapino, Stalingrad and Kuban. With spitfire killing Me-262s and also flying albatros and killing Camels.

 

The most WOW thing: CLARITY and SWEET SPOT!!!  Impressive, much better than Pimax 5K+. You could say that the sweet spot is all the FOV (vertical and horizontal). Cristal clear everything you put your eyes on.

I have been using all kind of VR devices in the last 4-5 years DK1, DK2, CV1, VivePro, Pimax5K+. and when you try the Index I say a big WOW WOW WOW!!! How nice you can see everything!!!

What a nitid images, vivid colors, clear image, WOW, WOW, WOW.

 

Should I sell my Pimax5K+? (I have just bought the DAS and ordered the 3D printed adapters) But I am thinking I will do.

 

Has the Index less FOV than the Pimax5K+?  Definitely yes, but Index has a nice amount of FOV  that allows to check six with some body flexibility. Ideally you will want the vision of the Index with the FOV of the Pimax, but it at the moment I am more on the Index side.

 

Apart from that awesome view of the Index what else:

 

- Fixing: the fixing of the Index is very easy and fits perfectly to my face. I just 1 minute you can master it and find the right position (eye distance, IPD, face pressure)

- IPD: the IPD adjust works very precisely for my 66mm IPD, not deadband or sticky.

- Cushion: the material and foams are just great and soft, not leaks of light

- Audio: that´s simply amazing. low and high freq sounds. Without touching your ears! I can hear my family when they call me at the same time! so far quite impressed.

- Easy setup: I have just installed everything in 3 minutes (I already had one basestations v1.0). IL-2 just run perfect. Don´t need to install any additional thing (SteamVR was already installed)

- TRacking: I didn´t loose tracking any single moment (much much easier than Pimax here)

- Performance: This really surprised me greatly. I was running in balanced, no clouds and putting 140% supersampling in steamVR (recommended for 1080Ti on the Index). I was at 90fps 95% of the time. And being in the 60 to 90 when destroying planes at 50 meters distance. I need to measure the performance of Pimax5K+ and Index for the same amount of pixels.

I don´t know if being a native SteamVR device it could have better performance for SteamVR based games.

 

Bad things:

 

- It has less FOV than Pimax5K+ (I already knew that)

- After 20 minutes the device is a bit hot, nothing dramatic if you have air conditioning, but you can feel that heat in the front. I will see if longer sessions is acceptable.

- God rays: They are there, but for IL-2 it really don´t affect me. Still not tried night missions

 

If you have a Rift or Vive or VivePro, don´t doubt it, go for it.

 

The Index has raised the bar quite high for future devices.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

 

If you have a Rift or Vive or VivePro, don´t doubt it, go for it.

 

The Index has raised the bar quite high for future devices.

 

 

Where do you see to put Steam VR supersampling to 140%?  Mine defaulted to 100

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8 minutes ago, WIS-Redcoat said:

Where do you see to put Steam VR supersampling to 140%?

 

As I did for all VR devices I used with IL-2, in the SteamVR settings. In the Video section to check manual override, then you put the SS you want.

I have been calculating the internal supersampling of the Index (also called default resolution) and they are identical to the VivePro.

This are the numbers:

index.png.e13d66a2c3eb32a7060daad9c01237f0.png

 

The surprising thing is that I was using with the Rift no more than 180% (so 7.7 Million pixels) to avoid fps decrease.

 

But with the Index I went directly to 140% (without knowing exactly if it is worth to do it), and it run very smoothly. Now, after doing the calcs, I see that it is 12.6 million pixels. This is like running the Rift CV1 at 290%SS!! I didn´t do that since the performance was really affected, but it seems that here with the Index my 1080Ti can move well those 12.6 milllion pixels at 90Hz.

 

WHY????

 

Also, being the default res 1.96 (196%) I don´t think I will gain more detail going from 100% to 140%. I will need to do some camera pictures this weekend.

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52 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

As I did for all VR devices I used with IL-2, in the SteamVR settings. In the Video section to check manual override, then you put the SS you want.

Are you using motion smoothing?  I am on 120 hrtz and it feels good

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Hey, Chili. Thanks. I have reserved one but I have been waiting to see how it works with Il2 before purchasing. These days Il2 is about the only game I have consistent time for. Right now, I have an Odyssey + that I am happy with. I have it fully modded for comfort so that it fits me perfectly. How much of an improvement do you think it will be over the O+ (I realize you didn't list it as one of your headsets, so no worries if you have no idea)? Thanks!

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On 7/2/2019 at 5:47 AM, redcloud111 said:

How much of an improvement do you think it will be over the O+

 

Although Index has the same number of pixels than VivePro and O+, their panel are LCD with 3 subpixels per pixels, (not 2), so it will give and extra detail in texts, gauges, IDs, but nothing really dramatic.

As you said, I have not tested the O+, so no real feedback here. If you are OK with the confort of O+, the AKG audio, and the halo design, then you only will have the extra 20 degress of FOV and the huge sweet spot. I also hear that the filter of the O+ introduce a small bluriness to hide the SDE, but if you are happy with the view you will not gain to much on that.

There is also the drawback of all WMR which are very dependent on Windows OS.

Really don´t know if the upgrade will be worth for you.

On 7/2/2019 at 10:47 AM, von_Tom said:

but do you need the controllers if you only play IL2 or things like that

 

I only acquired the Index headset without controllers. You don´t need them to play IL-2, just a proper HOTAS

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35 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Although Index has the same number of pixels than VivePro and O+, their panel are LCD with 3 subpixels per pixels, (not 2), so it will give and extra detail in texts, gauges, IDs, but nothing really dramatic.

As you said, I have not tested the O+, so no real feedback here. If you are OK with the confort of O+, the AKG audio, and the halo design, then you only will have the extra 20 degress of FOV and the huge sweet spot. I also hear that the filter of the O+ introduce a small bluriness to hide the SDE, but if you are happy with the view you will not gain to much on that.

There is also the drawback of all WMR which are very dependent on Windows OS.

Really don´t know if the upgrade will be worth for you.

 

I only acquired the Index headset without controllers. You don´t need them to play IL-2, just a proper HOTAS

 

hey, @chiliwili69  there's another guy on Reddit that posted the 'vertical lines' issue that I observed in my headset. His picture is a bit more clear. Do you observe these subpixel vertial line formations on your unit?

 

m5sc93658y731.png

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2 hours ago, pomdeterre said:

 

hey, @chiliwili69  there's another guy on Reddit that posted the 'vertical lines' issue that I observed in my headset. His picture is a bit more clear. Do you observe these subpixel vertial line formations on your unit?

 

I didn´t notice that in my initial test 2 days ago. But I am planning to do more testing this weekend. I will then try to shake the head to see if this appears.

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On 7/2/2019 at 1:39 AM, WIS-Redcoat said:

Are you using motion smoothing? 

 

I didn´t know but the "Motion Smoothing" of SteamVR (this is the equivalent Oculus ASW in SteamVR) was checked the first time I used the Index. There were almost no artifacts when I played initially (I also didn´t know when MS was entering in action. I think I can put an overlay during game play to know it). But later I saw some artifacts in some scenarios.

 

Later I switched off the MS and the experience was also quite good. I need to experiment more with the MS.

22 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

I didn´t notice that in my initial test 2 days ago. But I am planning to do more testing this weekend. I will then try to shake the head to see if this appears.

 

Yesterday I was testing it for 2 hours and no RGB lines. Or I didn´t notice them.

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This is a through the lens video for Rift-S, VivePro and Index.

 

youtu.be/ZaMyW6mtApg

image.thumb.png.dd5dc0311b0c44ba93141934e33d3277.png

On 7/2/2019 at 12:19 AM, chiliwili69 said:

After 20 minutes the device is a bit hot, nothing dramatic if you have air conditioning, but you can feel that heat in the front. I will see if longer sessions is acceptable

 

One thing that changed in the Index is that it is not getting hot anymore (I mean no more than Rift or Pimax) after one hour of use.

I was not using air conditioning and outside temp was about 28 deg C and dry.

I don´t know if this is something the Valve has fixed but it doesn´t get hot now.

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Looks like the index is very good , but do one know to Vs Reverb ??? 

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I'm eagerly awaiting my Index. No shipping notification yet, so probably nothing till September.

 

Anyone interested on a Cheap Vive with controllers?

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On 7/1/2019 at 5:19 PM, chiliwili69 said:

Hey guys,  I couldn´t resist the temptation, skipped some kids time (what a bad father!) and tried the Index for an hour (but allowed one of the kids to try it, so not so bad father).

 

Initial impressions with quick mission builder in Lapino, Stalingrad and Kuban. With spitfire killing Me-262s and also flying albatros and killing Camels.

 

The most WOW thing: CLARITY and SWEET SPOT!!!  Impressive, much better than Pimax 5K+. You could say that the sweet spot is all the FOV (vertical and horizontal). Cristal clear everything you put your eyes on.

I have been using all kind of VR devices in the last 4-5 years DK1, DK2, CV1, VivePro, Pimax5K+. and when you try the Index I say a big WOW WOW WOW!!! How nice you can see everything!!!

What a nitid images, vivid colors, clear image, WOW, WOW, WOW.

 

Should I sell my Pimax5K+? (I have just bought the DAS and ordered the 3D printed adapters) But I am thinking I will do.

 

Has the Index less FOV than the Pimax5K+?  Definitely yes, but Index has a nice amount of FOV  that allows to check six with some body flexibility. Ideally you will want the vision of the Index with the FOV of the Pimax, but it at the moment I am more on the Index side.

 

Apart from that awesome view of the Index what else:

 

- Fixing: the fixing of the Index is very easy and fits perfectly to my face. I just 1 minute you can master it and find the right position (eye distance, IPD, face pressure)

- IPD: the IPD adjust works very precisely for my 66mm IPD, not deadband or sticky.

- Cushion: the material and foams are just great and soft, not leaks of light

- Audio: that´s simply amazing. low and high freq sounds. Without touching your ears! I can hear my family when they call me at the same time! so far quite impressed.

- Easy setup: I have just installed everything in 3 minutes (I already had one basestations v1.0). IL-2 just run perfect. Don´t need to install any additional thing (SteamVR was already installed)

- TRacking: I didn´t loose tracking any single moment (much much easier than Pimax here)

- Performance: This really surprised me greatly. I was running in balanced, no clouds and putting 140% supersampling in steamVR (recommended for 1080Ti on the Index). I was at 90fps 95% of the time. And being in the 60 to 90 when destroying planes at 50 meters distance. I need to measure the performance of Pimax5K+ and Index for the same amount of pixels.

I don´t know if being a native SteamVR device it could have better performance for SteamVR based games.

 

Bad things:

 

- It has less FOV than Pimax5K+ (I already knew that)

- After 20 minutes the device is a bit hot, nothing dramatic if you have air conditioning, but you can feel that heat in the front. I will see if longer sessions is acceptable.

- God rays: They are there, but for IL-2 it really don´t affect me. Still not tried night missions

 

If you have a Rift or Vive or VivePro, don´t doubt it, go for it.

 

The Index has raised the bar quite high for future devices.

 

 


chili,

 

Did your Vive Pro have the Gear VR lens mod?

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