Flying Circus Aircraft Guide — by Bender, Larnedras & Trupo [UPDATED 28/12/2021]

[US103_Baer]

Think the point is that the SPAD XIII should at least have started to pull away from the D7f. There was a long enough period when both were in shallow dives, the SPAD wasn't damaged and they were NOT at an altitude that the D7's AltThrottle would overcome SPADs speed advantage. But it couldn't. This is one MP example, but i can assure you the same scenario has been tested PvP in training scenarios multiple times.

 

A SPAD XIII 220hp should have at least 20-23kph more speed down there, it has fantastic power/weight too, (iirc even better than a D7f) so acceleration should be excellent.

 

The conclusion arrived at is our FC SPAD has a 200hp engine. Name (HS8Ba), Rev limit (2200rpm) and aircraft speed performance (215kph  @MSL).

 

 

[J99_Sizzlorr]

5 hours ago, US103_Baer said:

Think the point is that the SPAD XIII should at least have started to pull away from the D7f. There was a long enough period when both were in shallow dives, the SPAD wasn't damaged and they were NOT at an altitude that the D7's AltThrottle would overcome SPADs speed advantage. But it couldn't. This is one MP example, but i can assure you the same scenario has been tested PvP in training scenarios multiple times.

 

A SPAD XIII 220hp should have at least 20-23kph more speed down there, it has fantastic power/weight too, (iirc even better than a D7f) so acceleration should be excellent.

 

The conclusion arrived at is our FC SPAD has a 200hp engine. Name (HS8Ba), Rev limit (2200rpm) and aircraft speed performance (215kph  @MSL).

 

 

 

To be fair it wasn't Talbots best energy conserving flight and he also chose the wrong route to disengage. After he destroyed the balloon he pulled up again and turned into my flight path giving me the energy advantage in the chase (1:12). I was able to cut the corner on him due to his choice of route to disengage. After that I shot at him from long range to get him to evaded and bleed more energy so I could gain on him. He also gave up his altitude faster than me. If he disengaged to the north without climbing back to my altitude I wouldn't been able to catch him. Also my altitude throttle was wide open until we reached ground level. At the end I don't know maybe he also forgot to adjust his mixture setting or the engine didn't produces max RPM due to damage or he bled too much energy in his dive while maneuvering.

 

I also can assure you that this is not the best MP example for a Spad disengaging correctly from a D7F. I had countless situations where I wasn't able to close in on them.

Edited April 22, 2020 by J99_Sizzlorr

[No.23_Gaylion]

If I go north and dive- I dive lower over your trenches and increase chances of being hit by your ground fire. 

 

If I fly straight and level in a dive- the accuracy of the FC guns will catch me, like they did.

 

5 hours ago, US103_Baer said:

This is one MP example, but i can assure you the same scenario has been tested PvP in training scenarios multiple times.

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by US213_Talbot

[J99_Sizzlorr]

15 minutes ago, US213_Talbot said:

If I go north and dive- I dive lower over your trenches and increase chances of being hit by your ground fire. 

 

If I fly straight and level in a dive- the accuracy of the FC guns will catch me, like they did.

 

 

 

I would have taken the chances of beeing hit by groundfire, which wasn't that accurate at the time. It basically never hit anything. If I remember that correctly it was my mission running which leads to a weakened AI for groundfire when the balloon is destroyed in that sector. Also you flight path didn't get you clear of groundfire (2:13) but it also took you in range of my Spandaus. So going north would have saved you I guarantee you that.

Edited April 22, 2020 by J99_Sizzlorr

[No.23_Triggers]

On 4/22/2020 at 8:30 AM, US103_Baer said:

and they were NOT at an altitude that the D7's AltThrottle would overcome SPADs speed advantage.

That might not be true actually - at least not at first. The D.VII F can use full altitude throttle at 1500m.

It might not be a textbook example of a SPAD extension, but as I'm looking at it that SPAD should have out-accelerated that D7F (edited) once both were in that 20-30ish degree dive. The SPAD vs D7F dive acceleration seems to be pretty out of whack imo, but that's opening up a whole different discussion entirely 

Edited April 24, 2020 by US93_Larner

[=RS=Stix_09]

On 4/23/2020 at 12:51 AM, J99_Sizzlorr said:

 

I would have taken the chances of beeing hit by groundfire, which wasn't that accurate at the time. It basically never hit anything. If I remember that correctly it was my mission running which leads to a weakened AI for groundfire when the balloon is destroyed in that sector. Also you flight path didn't get you clear of groundfire (2:13) but it also took you in range of my Spandaus. So going north would have saved you I guarantee you that.

 

In ww1 ground fire was a serious threat, because of slow speed of ww1 planes,and  in FC it can be dangerous at low altitude , that MG AAA can be nasty,(especially if you are flying to conserve energy), however as you point out the Dr7 in this case was the bigger threat. I would have gone north to create horizontal distance myself.

 

My main point though was the video is not a good example of how Spad can out dive and outrun a DR7, (and not about who did what).

Edited April 24, 2020 by =RS=Stix_09

[J5_Adam]

@=RS=Stix_09 by Dr7 I’m sure you mean Fokker DVII and not the Dr1 Dreidecker  ?

[=RS=Stix_09]

2 hours ago, Adam said:

@=RS=Stix_09 by Dr7 I’m sure you mean Fokker DVII and not the Dr1 Dreidecker  ?

 

yes, that was what was in the video its a typo (ie D7)

[BMA_Hellbender]

UPDATED 22/05/2020

• The MULTIPLAYER AIRCRAFT GUIDE has been rechristened FLYING CIRCUS AIRCRAFT GUIDE
• Added or reworked remarks about durability and wingshedding
• Albatros D.Va moved to Bronze (again) 

 

Here's a quick edit (likely final for Vol.1) to our Aircraft Guide, in honour of the 4.006 update. With the renewed focus on single player thanks to the now official campaigns by @SYN_Vander, as well as the vastly improved AI from a few updates ago, this guide too is moving away from the idea that Flying Circus Volume 1 is a multiplayer-only experience. There are no major changes to report to our tiering, save for the Albatros D.Va no longer making it to Silver. It was dangling at the bottom there anyway.

[Guest deleted@219798]

The Albatros DVa in both RoF has it using the Merc IIIa engine, the same as the DIII, yet quite a few references show it using a 200hp engine the Merc IIIau. Even RoF reference says a new engine but it isn't. If it had a 200hp engine it would be nearly 20kmh faster.

[johnnyninetoes]

Fantastic information to help me as a new player. Very helpful. Thanks.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

Any relation to johnnycumlately ?

[BMA_Hellbender]

On 1/25/2021 at 5:52 PM, johnnyninetoes said:

Fantastic information to help me as a new player. Very helpful. Thanks.

 

We're happy it's of use! You won't be a "new" player for long, and you'll soon form your own opinions.

 

Hopefully we'll get to add the first FC volume 2 aircraft soon.

[BMA_Hellbender]

UPDATED 10/02/2021
 

• Housekeeping in preparation of FC Vol.2 aircraft
• Reworked tiers and remarks, especially about durability and wingshedding

[Cynic_Al]

6 hours ago, =IRFC=Hbender said:

UPDATED 10/02/2021
 

• Housekeeping in preparation of FC Vol.2 aircraft

 

I can't wait to read more of your legendary guidance on these latest planes.

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

This is simply awesome!!!

[BMA_Hellbender]

UPDATED 20/06/2021
 

• "Nieuport 28" and Fokker D.VIII added to Bronze and Silver, respectively
• Reworked some remarks about turn performance, sustained turn and turn radius

 

 

I've been gently encouraged to update this for the FC2 planes released so far and have remained as objective and impartial as can be expected. Thankfully the expectations were low to begin with.

[ST_Catchov]

Good job bender. Remarkably restrained. 

[MadMike32]

Did the Nieuport 28 have these FM issues in RoF?  I mostly flew Entente inlines back then, so I never really took much notice of it.

[Cynic_Al]

On 6/22/2021 at 7:41 AM, MadMike32 said:

Did the Nieuport 28 have these FM issues in RoF? 

 

You'll find a discussion thread that shows it certainly did, and from the experience of FC1 everyone knew it would, but at least they could be experienced in VR, which must be the reason people bought it.

[ST_Catchov]

On 6/24/2021 at 4:05 AM, Cynic_Al said:

 

You'll find a discussion thread that shows it certainly did, and from the experience of FC1 everyone knew it would, but at least they could be experienced in VR, which must be the reason people bought it.

 

I don't think we can rely on 12 people to change things. We must instead rely on the dev's honour and commitment to ring in the changes requested by the great unwashed paying public. The great American saying "the customer is always right" springs to mind so, as a business, I'm confident 1C Game Studios will rise to the challenge.

[Cynic_Al]

49 minutes ago, ST_Catchov said:

I don't think we can rely on 12 people to change things.

 

As I understand it, on one occasion it took only one person to influence a set of damaging changes, and no number of complaints could reverse them.  For my part the only redress was to ensure the person in question never displays his name in any server I may operate.

 

 

56 minutes ago, ST_Catchov said:

We must instead rely on the dev's honour and commitment to ring in the changes requested by the great unwashed paying public.

 

If they don't post here, how do we know what or if they've requested?

[Todt_Von_Oben]

The Devs obviously see this Forum for what it is.

[J2_Trupobaw]

Nieuport 28 we have is a relic of bad Neogb design from 2009. Quality wise, it is the last RoF product qualifying for FC port (yes, even after D.H.2).  A better implemented RoF plane like Hanriot, Strutter or Albatros D.III would make more sense for FC gameplay wise. I suppose the decision to include it was more market based ( to cash on popularity of historical plane as first American fighter ) than product quality based. 

 

Pfalz D.XIII is another monster of bad early design coming back to haunt us but, since that plane had actual useful gameplay role, it still will make a welcome addition. Since most of its gameplae flaws were DM based rather than FM based (wings falling away if you sneeze) i expect good things from it after the port.

Edited June 25, 2021 by J2_Trupobaw

[venger]

Thanks. Very helpful

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

Thanks a lot

[J2_Trupobaw]

Hello everyone, Trupo here with news:
Bender is taking a step back from writing this guide for time being because real life happened . But we are neither closing the guide or turning it into platform for unfiltered Trupobiases - @US93_Larner (who was our  sometimes consultant and voice of reason) has stepped up as co-author, providing very different point of view to mine. We believe the things we can agree on are as close to balanced opinion as possible ?.
Since the thread belongs to Bender and we cannot edit it directly, I have couple of requests for @SYN_Haashashin :
1) Please alter thread title to add Larnedras second author (after Bender, before me - in alphabetic order)
2) Please add below entry to the "Silver" tier of review in the first post.  

Pfalz D.XII (FC Vol. 2)

 

the cart horse

 

Pros:

▲ Altitude Throttle
✓ Very good climb rate
✓ Great high altitude performance

✓ Very good climb rate
✓ Good visibility

✓Fast at altitude
✓One of fastest German planes on the deck

✓Parachute

 

Cons:
▼ very poor dive characteristics
⨯ low maneuverability
⨯ reaches flutter speed very quickly in dive
⨯ spins difficult to recover from

It's hard to talk of the Pfalz D.XII without comparing it to other planes. Historically it was seen as "The Poor Man’s Fokker D.VII” - offering the same speed, climb rate and performance but none of maneuverability and ease of handling at all speeds. The BMW-equipped FC2 Pfalz D.XII has a similar relationship with FC's Fokker D.VII F. Alternatively, it can be thought of as an attempt to build a German Spad, sharing the French plane's speed, climb and limited maneuverability but failing to reproduce the handling, dive performance and adding nasty high speed behaviour on top.

Although not nimble enough to be a turn-fighter, and handicapped in its handling qualities outside it's speed comfort zone (going either too slow or too fast), the D.XII has no equal in top speed at higher altitudes. Its high-compression BMW IIIa makes it an excellent pursuit plane and affords the D.XII a competitive edge as an energy fighter against any high-flying Entente scouts...but be careful not to stall her out, or you may find yourself in a near-unrecoverable spin!

Edited August 30, 2021 by J2_Trupobaw

[J2_Trupobaw]

"Landeras" surely has that young dashing lovero flying ace vibe ? .

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by J2_Trupobaw

[Guest deleted@83466]

Sounds like a fly-by-night law firm to me.  Bender, Larnedras, and Trupo, ambulance chasers at-law.

[Cynic_Al]

On 8/30/2021 at 3:59 PM, J2_Trupobaw said:

⨯ spins difficult to recover from

....... but be careful not to stall her out, or you may find yourself in a near-unrecoverable spin!

 

It may be some time (if ever) before I bring myself to obtain FC2, but in RoF the above assertion amounted to a perpetuated myth, and going by the consistency of spin recovery seen in FC1, I suspect it still is.  Can someone confirm this?

 

 

[NavyGuy]

being a total noob is the  Bender & Trupo guide downloadable? If so please advise where. Also where is the best place to obtain MOD for FC1 & FC2. Thank you

[BMA_Hellbender]

Well, the three of us are back! Sort of...

 

Here's a quick update for the newly added scouts. Airco DH.4, Breguet 14 and DFW will follow after we've spent some more time with them.

 

UPDATED 28/12/2021
 

• Pfalz D.XII added to Gold
• SPAD VII 180hp added to Silver
• SPAD VII 150hp added to Brass

 

On 12/4/2021 at 9:49 PM, NavyGuy said:

being a total noob is the  Bender & Trupo guide downloadable? If so please advise where. Also where is the best place to obtain MOD for FC1 & FC2. Thank you

 

The guide is a living document that also reflects major development changes/fixes/additions to the product. I suppose that we can eventually create something downloadable. In the meantime feel free to use it in any way you see fit (do link back to the source, please).

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

On 12/28/2021 at 6:38 AM, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

Well, the three of us are back! Sort of...

 

Here's a quick update for the newly added scouts. Airco DH.4, Breguet 14 and DFW will follow after we've spent some more time with them.

 

UPDATED 28/12/2021
 

• Pfalz D.XII added to Gold

 

 

Pfalz XII is a piece of Sh%t.  Worse wings than the Albatros.

[BMA_Hellbender]

6 hours ago, J5_Klugermann said:

Pfalz XII is a piece of Sh%t.  Worse wings than the Albatros.

 

It is pretty fragile, I will add that, and the flutter in a dive is terrible. Speaking of which: we should have that type of flutter on the Albatros.

 

Besides that, the D.XII is faster than the Camel on the deck and faster than anything else at 3000m. It's not a D.VIIF, nothing is, but it's not underpowered German crap either.

[J2_Trupobaw]

Pfalz D.XII and Spad 7 share the distinction of having speed and climb to catch (or run away from) anything contemporary, but lacking staying power and gun stability to do anything about it. With short window of opportunity both planes lack stability and accuracy to one pass cripple the opponent, and trying for longer window of opportunity is suicidal. They are great getaway vehicles, good planes to annoy people and stay out of touch, but other than running down enemies trying to run away in straight line they are not fight winners. They will get you home, but won't get you scoring.

 

[J2_Bidu]

Well, I really like the DXII. It's fast, has good visibility, and it's stable enough to shoot (better than the DR1 at least, lol). Maybe not a quick streak maker, sure, but may allow you to handle difficult situations in ways that other planes won't. I like it much better than the D7F, in fact.

Edited December 31, 2021 by J2_Bidu

[BMA_Hellbender]

14 hours ago, J2_Bidu said:

Well, I really like the DXII. It's fast, has good visibility, and it's stable enough to shoot (better than the DR1 at least, lol). Maybe not a quick streak maker, sure, but may allow you to handle difficult situations in ways that other planes won't. I like it much better than the D7F, in fact.

 

I also have a soft spot for the D.XII for much the same reasons. It's my favourite German scout by far. Well, we don't have the Siemens-Schuckert yet.

[US103_Baer]

As an Entente pilot I like seeing D12s around. Quite easily dodged or escaped from if necessary, and a short burst into the wings is usually fatal, especially if the pilot tries to escape by either diving or turning. Then there's the spin...

 

Trupo's right,  with the current FM/DM limitations placed on the D12 and S7, it appears they have a very narrow range of tactics. Ok for the disciplined or, shall we say, masochistic pilot, but death traps for anyone else.

[No.23_Triggers]

On 12/31/2021 at 1:16 PM, Hellbender said:

 

I also have a soft spot for the D.XII for much the same reasons. It's my favourite German scout by far. Well, we don't have the Siemens-Schuckert yet.

The D.XII also has a soft spot of its own...



 

Nah, wing-shedding aside I do like the D.XII quite a bit for the same reasons stated above...if it had stronger wings and its dive wasn't bugged it would be an absolute monster 

[GregP]

This guide really is fantastic, the perfect resource for a newcomer to FC like myself! Love both the humor and the tips.  I may as well ask the obvious question: any plans to update with the full FC2 plane set? Pretty please?