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Does IL-2 GB need to return to the Eastern Front?

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I loved the Finnish aircraft and the early-war stuff (I-153, I-16 etc) but marketwise I have a hard time seeing them go there again.

 

I hope I'm wrong though.

Edited by Duckman
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On 1/8/2019 at 12:44 AM, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

 

In IL-2 1946 servers it was done in a way that there were landing and take off carriers. You couldnt select the "landing carriers" for take off.  And those carriers were closer to the frontline so players landed on them when returning to the fleet as they were the first ones on sight. I think there was also an auto despawning timer for broken/crashed planes on the flight deck, but I'm not 100% sure about that. 

 

 

Yes on most DF servers you had take off cariers and landing carriers, also when you spawn on carrier you were with chocks in and at that time your plane was invanruble so if anyone behined you started he could just pass trough your airplane, and when spawn slots on carrier deck were full when you press start you would just spawn in air next to carrier at 500-1000m alt. So there was no big problems, it was even easyer to get in air then from normal land bases.

On 1/8/2019 at 4:12 PM, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

 

This is when you put them to work creating add-on maps instead of full on "Battle Of X" expansions. As the planeset fills out, there's plenty of opportunities for adding maps that cover scenarios that use the existing hardware (Normandy, for example, or various eastern front areas). Not to mention new maps for Tank Crew.

 

I would like them to do some maps of area where they already have most airplanes in game that flew there, they could sell map and career that comes with that map, and as they say 95% users are SP, if server has that map in rotation, MP users dont have to have that map (like its now) to play on it just need to have airplanes used on bases. This could give us more areas to fight over and no worry of how to fill 10 airplanes when most are already in game. Also they can then tie it with some collectable airplanes. Maybe that would be profitable, for interesting areas but no so interesting airplane sets of 10 airplanes. ( something like Smolens, Crimea, Lvov or Kiev area maps from il-2 1946 would fill in some gaps could be used in differant years of war, and we already have most airplanes to use there, also there is that Leningrad map that is worked on by Finland players )

Edited by 77.CountZero

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On 1/4/2019 at 11:07 AM, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

 

While I very much want to go to the Pacific as well, I find the Eastern front reasonably diverse and not particularly monotonous. Though there is plenty of overlap of aircraft types (gustav, gustav, gustav/anton anton anton) there are enough differences between even those airframes to make mastering them interesting. Not to mention the difference between bombers, attackers and fighters to keep one busy for years. I don't see the Pacific mission profiles being all that different other than the targets being largely seaborne and the landings requiring more precision. The scenery should be amazing though. I do argue for different theaters regularly but that's mostly because I'm greedy and enjoy this teams efforts greatly.  :)

I have been enjoying this flight sim since the original IL-2 many moons ago. The PTO was never covered in the original iteration with a full and accurate plane set. The best maps were made by third party . The aircraft and ships were crudely rendered compared to what we have currently ( although I hope the  models of the capital ships are better than what we have now) Landing and taking off of an aircraft carrier is much more challenging and satisfying than anything the monotonous repetition of the Eastern front air combat can offer. There is nothing to rival the feeling and intensity of flipping your dive bomber over and having the deck of an aircraft carry fill your sight. especially after surviving the intense ship based  AAA and your rear gunner fending off the attacking fighters .The satisfaction of a direct hit , than making it safely back to a friendly carrier. Add to this the rapidly changing  weather( hopefully included). The plane set for  both allies and Axis is exponentially more diverse.than the East. Than lets move to CBI ,staring in China. Than the Med !

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3 minutes ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

We don't significantly disagree............

I believe it is more a matter of personal preference.Each forum member has their reasons for  enjoy this sim.  Essentially we have been engaging in the same mission set since 2001 in the East, change is good.

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14 hours ago, Sgt_Joch said:

 

Not as much as NWE 1944-45.

 

 Fair play buddy, NWE works for me. 😉

 

Mike.

 

 

Edited by Dogbert1940

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On 1/4/2019 at 5:08 PM, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

 

That's like saying PTO is just a Wildcat/Hellcat taking off, flying through the same all blue scenery for hours looking for a bunch of ships to bomb. 

I could see how you may think that way if you are not well versed on the PTO, However I will have to respectfully say ,you could not be more wrong.

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Honestly late war western aircraft have been done so much in combat sims in general, would love to see a return to early war/ eastern front or even other early war locations as the planes are much more interesting and have more diversity and are more unique in the way they operate. Where as late war everything is pretty close performance wise and how they operate. There is still a lot of planes to fill in on the Soviet side of things and on the smaller axis powers.

 

Part of what makes IL-2 stand out from everything is that its not just another western themed game that's why it is called IL-2.  I have nothing against expanding the series to the med pacific or wherever, so as long as we get more I will be ok.

On 1/9/2019 at 8:59 AM, Sgt_Joch said:

If you want to talk about it purely from a business perspective, I have had long discussions with another successful wargame developper and he said the setting which sells the most, bar none, is North-West Europe 1944-45. U.S. players, which are still the biggest market, want to play with U.S. forces.

 

So yes, from a purely business perspective, an expansion to Bodenplatte like Berlin or Normandy would make the most sense.

If you are developing a console FPS type game then yes. However I think American PC gamers are in to more casual games than their European and Russian counterparts also keep in mind that this is a PC combat sim, and PCs hold a bigger market share in comparison to consoles in Europe like Russia and Germany than compared to NA in they are also most likely

to have the accessories like joysticks.

 

Just looking at the multiplayer server population once Europe goes to bed speaks volumes. You see that not just for this game but also was the same for il-2 1946 and other simulation world war 2 type games.

 

Edited by 19//sputnik66*
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1 hour ago, 19//sputnik66* said:

Just looking at the multiplayer server population once Europe goes to bed speaks volumes. You see that not just for this game but also was the same for il-2 1946 and other simulation world war 2 type games.

 

It is indeed indicating the greatest market for this sim is Russia and Europe. Honestly I would have been surprized if this wouldn´t have been the case. However, 1CGS knows for certain and will act accordingly.

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2 hours ago, 19//sputnik66* said:

Just looking at the multiplayer server population once Europe goes to bed speaks volumes.

 

 

You can’t really extrapolate anything from this. 

This doesn’t account for the current Ostfront focus and lack of US/Western European aircraft; whenever Bodenplatte is released you’ll likely see an increase in the US and Western European audience.

 

You also talk about Europe ‘going to bed’ - time zones are another factor as European players occupy the middle ground. On the average day the same European players can catch Russian pilots before they go to bed and US pilots after they wake up.

If I log on at 1900 GMT, it’s 2000 in Berlin, 2300 in Moscow and 1300 in New York. So everyone can be online at once.

 

If you assume Europe goes to bed by 2300 on a school night, it’s 1800 in New York, so prime evening playing time. But very few in Russia will be awake and on a server at 0400, so of course there will be an appreciable drop off in numbers.

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6 minutes ago, Royal_Flight said:

 

You can’t really extrapolate anything from this. 

This doesn’t account for the current Ostfront focus and lack of US/Western European aircraft;

 

Exactly.

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11 minutes ago, Royal_Flight said:

 

You can’t really extrapolate anything from this. 

This doesn’t account for the current Ostfront focus and lack of US/Western European aircraft; whenever Bodenplatte is released you’ll likely see an increase in the US and Western European audience.

 

You also talk about Europe ‘going to bed’ - time zones are another factor as European players occupy the middle ground. On the average day the same European players can catch Russian pilots before they go to bed and US pilots after they wake up.

If I log on at 1900 GMT, it’s 2000 in Berlin, 2300 in Moscow and 1300 in New York. So everyone can be online at once.

 

If you assume Europe goes to bed by 2300 on a school night, it’s 1800 in New York, so prime evening playing time. But very few in Russia will be awake and on a server at 0400, so of course there will be an appreciable drop off in numbers.

 

 

Well you can actually get from it considering it's the only thing we have to go on in terms of players playing online in this game. Look at it this way when the original il-2 came out with aces expansion then the release of pacific fighters it largely remained the same being  European/Russian dominated. I would go farther saying that there is more Russians in this game now also due to pricing differences and renewed interest in Russia in general among younger people about the conflict. I'm not saying we don't have players from everywhere else we do and I'm glad we do.

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You ever thought in GENERAL most Americas don't give a $$$$ about playing in the same Russian theatre for 5 years.  I know our squad hardly flies because of this fatigue.  The only thing that peaked interest was the recent p47.  

 

The games narrow theatre is why the American time zone is dead.  It's common business since.  

 

Very recently said by Jason, can quote but too lazy now, if we stayed in the Russian theatre any longer we'd be in trouble.  

 

*Will leave the spelling and grammar mistakes in :)  Just know I was typing fiercely on my phone while it was auto correcting.  lol

Edited by VBF-12_Snake9
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1 hour ago, 19//sputnik66* said:

 

 

Well you can actually get from it considering it's the only thing we have to go on in terms of players playing online in this game. Look at it this way when the original il-2 came out with aces expansion then the release of pacific fighters it largely remained the same being  European/Russian dominated. I would go farther saying that there is more Russians in this game now also due to pricing differences and renewed interest in Russia in general among younger people about the conflict. I'm not saying we don't have players from everywhere else we do and I'm glad we do.

 

Eastern Front only has a drastic impact on the player base - the end. There's no logical ground to even entertain a debate on this.

 

Also, I can't stand the "done so much"  (done to death) argument - nothing is easier to refute.

With respect, NOTHING has been done to death with a modern flight sim engine (although we're pulling ahead where the Eastern Front is concerned).

Old stuff is old stuff...doesn't count now.

 

If the Eastern Front is your favorite, great...you have plenty to keep you busy while those of us that are ready for a change can move on.

I'm with you on early war though...and early ear PTO is about as interesting as it gets. There are some classic match-ups, just like Emil vs Rata...only in my book

much more interesting. Horses for courses.

 

If PTO doesn't happen, I'll keep working with Jugs, P-38's and Mustangs and be happy enough I guess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Looks like you can't quote a locked thread, but here's the exact words copied and pasted.  

 

"Your list is also very Eastern Front oriented. If we only focused on the Eastern Front we’d be in trouble."

 

Pulled from this locked topic.  

 

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4 hours ago, 19//sputnik66* said:

Honestly late war western aircraft have been done so much in combat sims in general, would love to see a return to early war/ eastern front or even other early war locations as the planes are much more interesting and have more diversity and are more unique in the way they operate. Where as late war everything is pretty close performance wise and how they operate. There is still a lot of planes to fill in on the Soviet side of things and on the smaller axis powers.

 

Part of what makes IL-2 stand out from everything is that its not just another western themed game that's why it is called IL-2.  I have nothing against expanding the series to the med pacific or wherever, so as long as we get more I will be ok.

If you are developing a console FPS type game then yes. However I think American PC gamers are in to more casual games than their European and Russian counterparts also keep in mind that this is a PC combat sim, and PCs hold a bigger market share in comparison to consoles in Europe like Russia and Germany than compared to NA in they are also most likely

to have the accessories like joysticks.

 

Just looking at the multiplayer server population once Europe goes to bed speaks volumes. You see that not just for this game but also was the same for il-2 1946 and other simulation world war 2 type games.

 

I would argue, the Eastern front  does nothing to make IL-2 stand out.If anything it drags it down.Two of the most  boring plane sets to engage in combat,  flown over the vast monotonous landscape tiles,  ( other than the mountains, which saw next to zero combat) repeating the same mission.  The rendering of the aircraft and their corresponding flight characteristics, their damage models and to a lesser extent the clouds and lighting make it " stand out". BOBP  is a step in the right direction on all accounts. The PTO if executed as we all surmise will make Il-2 " Stand out ".

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51 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Also, I can't stand the "done so much"  (done to death) argument - nothing is easier to refute.

With respect, NOTHING has been done to death with a modern flight sim engine (although we're pulling ahead where the Eastern Front is concerned).

Old stuff is old stuff...doesn't count now.

Amen to that. How on earth can anyone compare BoBP with any WWII era simulation done by companies like LucasArts, Dynamix, Microprose or any other of the dozens of flight sims from the late 1980s to the time of the original IL-2 in 2001 and say it's all been done before? As much fun as they were and as much enjoyment as I derived from them back in the day, those titles are archaic in comparison to what we have in this series. The day will likely come (one hopes we're all still here) when even this series will be overtaken by something newer. With luck, it will be an updated, more powerful simulation produced by this team with the same eye towards quality we've come to expect in the BoX series.

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1 hour ago, Frequent_Flyer said:

Two of the most  boring plane sets to engage in combat,  flown over the vast monotonous landscape tiles,  ( other than the mountains, which saw next to zero combat) repeating the same mission

 

Bro, minus the mountains, you just described the Bodenplatte map (and the action that took place there in late 44-45) and almost half of the initial aircraft being modelled for it. Yet, the theater is consistently the most popular amongst wargamers, be they interested in air or ground. 

Edited by LukeFF
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Kuban is a stellar, fun map.

Even the older maps with the improvements can be just as fun...mission design/a little imagination plays a huge part here.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Bro, minus the mountains, you just described the Bodenplatte map (and the action that took place there in late 44-45) and almost half of the initial aircraft being modelled for it. Yet, the theater is consistently the most popular amongst wargamers, be they interested in air or ground. 

Of course it is, IL-2 has been stuck in the Eastern Front since 2001. The actual 5 years of battle was boring enough.The actual events of Boddenplatte did'nt last five years, nor have I seen the finished map to comment on. However, I can say the plane set from the allies point of view is much more interesting  and the Axis is the same old same old.

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3 hours ago, Frequent_Flyer said:

Of course it is, IL-2 has been stuck in the Eastern Front since 2001.

 

You probably never had IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946?

Kind of unbelievable that somebody seriously claims that IL-2 game series never made it out of Eastern Front. One of their titles was "Pacific fighters" after all.

 

 

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Just to give a perspective from someone who has been a ww2 air combat simulator fanatic from the aces of the pacific era (1992). I know it sounds shallow, but until recently i stayed away from il2 box because of the eastern front that is of little interest to me and because of lack of the SP campaign. The recent addition of the campaign got me back to il2 and i got BOS and BOM and recently the p-40.

I will argue here that focus only on the eastern front and lack of strong SP campaign (it is better now but still not perfect) keeps A LOT of people away from this sim. As said previously, 95% of Il2 players play SP and the basic idea of a campaign is to be able to fly as one specific pilot, representing a specific country in a specific conflict. Now, I must say i am less motivated to fly as a Russian or German pilot in a conflict that does not do much to me emotionally. In this sense I d rather fly as an American, British, Australian or Japanese pilot over Pacific or Western Europe. I am not even American or Western European, but Pacific and Western Europe have more interest to me. It is not only about planes, but the area of conflict and the identity we assume playing a campaign on one of the sides of the conflict. 

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4 hours ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

You probably never had IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946?

Kind of unbelievable that somebody seriously claims that IL-2 game series never made it out of Eastern Front. One of their titles was "Pacific fighters" after all.

 

 

Not to mention, there were a number of official maps of the ETO - 3 that I can think of off the top of my head (Ardennes, NW Europe, and Normandy).

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02F37AA6-D519-4B24-9841-F95B874B63DE.jpeg

Edited by RAY-EU
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13 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

 

I want all of these in BoX. :)

 

Ain´t gonna happen, unfortunately. But it would also be my dream. An Il-2 1946 like game with the graphical fidelity of BoX or DCS.

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0764AA46-9F13-4D69-A8D3-B24F1FC56492.jpeg

Here once’s wishes ! & some Where ... The Dreams come true .

Edited by RAY-EU

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On 1/11/2019 at 1:57 AM, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

You probably never had IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946?

Kind of unbelievable that somebody seriously claims that IL-2 game series never made it out of Eastern Front. One of their titles was "Pacific fighters" after all.

 

 

Pacific Fighters was missing a significant amount of the US plane set . The plane set include, especially the Hellcat was inaccurately modeled. The best map was the " slot", created by a third party . The P-38 model was not even up to the standards of 1946.

A significant number of the US warship were also excluded .Additionally, the " Normandy " map was the only map of Western Europe included in 1946. 1946 never seriously made out of the Eastern Front.

On 1/11/2019 at 6:01 AM, LukeFF said:

 

Not to mention, there were a number of official maps of the ETO - 3 that I can think of off the top of my head (Ardennes, NW Europe, and Normandy).

Are  referring to the postage stamp size maps with  little or nothing on them. The Normandy map didn't even include a small part of England to serve as an Allied base. You can't seriously suggest the ETO and PTO were covered by 1946? 

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I feel like a minority here in that I'm a "westerner" who really enjoys Russian aircraft and wouldn't mind seeing more of them... I also enjoy seeing the western front stuff just as much, but I would never be upset at the addition of more of the east

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3 hours ago, Frequent_Flyer said:

You can't seriously suggest the ETO and PTO were covered by 1946?

 

Sure I can. Just because you didn't like 1C's implementation of them doesn't mean they weren't "covered." I didn't like a lot of things as well about Pacific Fighters and the few Western Front maps added, but that doesn't meant they suddenly don't exist and that - as you like to remind us every couple of months - that IL2 has "been stuck in the Eastern Front attacking the same truck convoy repeatedly" since the early 2000s. It just also goes to show you haven't been looking at any of the content released - both third-party and official - for BOS. It's a damn sight more than your crazy argument that the game has been nothing but a vehicle convoy attack simulator ever since it was first conceived.

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On 10/11/2018 at 8:06 AM, Novice-Flyer said:

Okay, seriously? That is completely absurd! Do you not see the updates that Team Fusion provides for the upcoming patches Fenris Wolf? It's on this forum for Pete sake! All you got to do is scroll down till you reach the CoD section.

When IL-2 FB came out, it was met with positive reviews, and then that feeling went to IL-2 1946 and was met the same results. When CoD was announced it was anticipated as being the best game in the IL-2 series, as well as Oleg Maddox's masterpiece, this was not to be. When it came out there were many issues and bugs, then a year later in 2012 the team pulled away from the project and signed an agreement with 777 Studios. This was the birth of IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad.

 

Based on your post, I doubt you know that:

Team Fusion and 1C signed an agreement in 2016 and that went to re-releasing the game as IL-2 Cliffs of Dover Blitz last December

They are now planning TF 5.0 which will release Tobruk, many aircraft like the P-40, Wellington, Dewoitine D.520, He-111 H-6 (were you can carry torpedoes), F4F, Macchi 202, Bf 109F, etc., will fix many bugs still in the game, and many other game improvements.

6 months after TF 5.0 release, VR will be implemented into the game. I'd say mid 2019.

In the future TF 6.0, there will be aircraft carriers like the Illustrious class, probably you can fly the Walrus seaplane off allied ships, will most likely cover the Siege of Malta.

Will probably have more aircraft than in IL-2 Great Battles.

This game has clickable cockpits. Something that Jason also wants to implement into IL-2 GB.

 

I see Cliffs of Dover covering after Tobruk, Malta, Operation Torch, Sicily, and D-Day, maybe much more. Fenris Wolf, I believe that you are one of those people who just dismisses IL-2 1946 and CoD just because they're old, and I think that is totally wrong. To be fair, Cliffs of Dover is a relatively new game since the release of the Blitz edition (TF 4.5).

 

To see the updates of CoD here are the instructions: Go on IL-2 Sturmovik Forum> scroll down or click on Cliffs of Dover> click updates> See the game updates that Team Fusion has provided us since July.

 

 

Hi newfriend. We know all of this and have known for years. People are cranky at TF for being jerks to their customers. I've got many posts defending TF as a fanboi but I had to stop when the flame wars with fans started.

 

When their PR improves there will be less "I'm not giving them money" posts. When this game used to have less than ideal public relations a lot of us Cliffs fanbois refused to fly. I'm a high hours Cliffs fanboi, that the game is showing it's age is why it got downgraded from SSD to HDD. I've played only a couple of times in the past year and ATAG is always empty. I hope to see great improvements as the FM in Cliffs is really good. We will have to see....

 

I'd like to see the Battle of Britain done on this engine. I'd buy a brand new Cliffs of Dover. My ultimate wish would be for TF guys to be absorbed to get my game of choice developed faster. One can dream.   :P

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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On 1/11/2019 at 12:51 AM, Gambit21 said:

Kuban is a stellar, fun map.

Even the older maps with the improvements can be just as fun...mission design/a little imagination plays a huge part here.

 

 

 

 

 

It is also wonderfully beautiful. I have done dozens of scenic flights above it in the Ju52 and still have not seen it all. It proves that, as far as maps go, the eastern front still has a lot to offer. Imagine a Leningrad map made with the love deposited in the kuban map!

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1 minute ago, danielprates said:

 

It is also wonderfully beautiful. I have done dozens of scenic flights above it in the Ju52 and still have not seen it all. It proves that, as far as maps go, the eastern front still has a lot to offer. Imagine a Leningrad map made with the love deposited in the kuban map!

 

True. We are lacking at least 2 Eastfront releases to finish the war. The most interesting parts 1943/1944 and 1944/1945 are still missing, as do a lot of soviet planes of the 1941-1943 timeframe. Time will tell if we ever will see them in this game.

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9 hours ago, =621=Samikatz said:

I feel like a minority here in that I'm a "westerner" who really enjoys Russian aircraft and wouldn't mind seeing more of them... I also enjoy seeing the western front stuff just as much, but I would never be upset at the addition of more of the east

Nah I'm the same way. I thought it was pretty cool to learn about something I knew nothing about with old Il-2 FB. Now I find the Eastern Front more interesting.

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On 1/11/2019 at 3:45 AM, LukeFF said:

 

Bro, minus the mountains, you just described the Bodenplatte map (and the action that took place there in late 44-45) and almost half of the initial aircraft being modelled for it.

 

This couldn't be more wrong

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Cannot beat 1946 for scope, with the BAT mod added.

 

Game cost me £6.99 on Steam 2 yrs ago. Then on top of that i have this mass of free content, upgrades and mods.

 

Only two things spoil it for me, non clickable cockpits. The graphics are a bit old looking, but can be improved slightly with Re-shade.

 

Mike.

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Expand or die, hoping the ground war picks up a bit in BOBP, now seems pretty sterile compared to even original Il-2.  I'd like to see fighting positions flinging tracers on sections of the front and things like traffic and troop movements.  BOBP can certainly get away with a lower intensity ground war, but it's unforgivable on the East front, = boring.  It ain't the plane set that keeps me cold, it's the near complete lack of any ground war.

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