Developer Diary, Part 192 - Discussion

[EAF19_Marsh]

Hmm, Nandrin might be roughly central East-West in the southern part of the map...

[SYN_Vander]

4 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Hmm, Nandrin might be roughly central East-West in the southern part of the map...

 

Nadrin, not Nandrin. One letter, but roughly 50 km apart

[Rjel]

4 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Gielow said:

 

 

This time you won't have 20 to 1 ratio advantage

Sniffle

That old nugget. While the Allies could field overwhelming force, they weren't all in the same place at the same time. At best, you'd find a group in one area. More times than not, it would be at squadron strength or less. To say there were Allied fighters wing tip tip wing tip wherever you turned, mocks those fliers. IMO.

 

[Poochnboo]

Yeah, that old nugget, indeed. I wonder how they got that advantage? Was it like that for the entire war. Ummmm.....no. It's because the Luftwaffe got it's butt thoroughly kicked. They got it kicked in the air, back at the airfields and even all the way back home at the factories. 

[=FEW=Hauggy]

1 hour ago, =PFR=Shadow3S said:

ça serait y pas du côté de Ars sur Moselle ce viaduc ?

Ouep par contre c'est un forum Anglophone ici et ce n'est pas un viaduc. 

Edited April 28, 2018 by =FEW=Hauggy

[IRRE_Shadow3S]

Sois polis ! Anglophone si j'veux

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduc_de_Gorze_à_Metz

[LukeFF]

English, please.

[IRRE_Shadow3S]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduc_de_Gorze_à_Metz 

Edited April 28, 2018 by =PFR=Shadow3S

[Vortice]

Liberation is in the air. Here we come.

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

The Landscapes are looking fantastic. I'm very much looking forward to overflying that space some time in the future. It's also wonderful to hear that all 4 seasons are in the works. Assuming the map is large enough this could make for a very long campaigning season! Beautiful

 

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Johnny-Red

[sevenless]

10 minutes ago, Johnny-Red said:

The Landscapes are looking fantastic. I'm very much looking forward to overflying that space some time in the future. It's also wonderful to hear that all 4 seasons are in the works. Assuming the map is large enough this could make for a very long campaigning season! Beautiful

 

 

My bet is on Market Garden (9/44) to Operation Plunder (3/45). After that date Luftwaffe was dead in the west anyways.

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

I hope you're right. I was thinking around the same period of operations.

 

"After that date" Allied pilots were still worked to the limits of their endurance. They fought to the end of the war supporting ground forces to the point where the fading of the Luftwaffe would have been less obvious than the ever increasing toll taken on them by groundfire:

 

On 01/04/1945 132 wing reports the loss of 13 Merlin engined Spitfires to flak. 145 Wing lost a further 5 to flak on the same day. The Third Reich was deploying its formidable flak inventory in ever decreasing circles.

 

As for being a "dead" force in the East or the West, those last few weeks of the war were characterised by more sporadic combats in skies where multiple commands on both sides (along with their diverse inventories) now overlapped eachother.

[Quax]

Impressive work on the map. There are civil sims, where you pay massively more to get better geo maps, and they don´t look as natural as this !!

[sevenless]

11 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

I hope you're right. I was thinking around the same period of operations.

 

"After that date" Allied pilots were still worked to the limits of their endurance. They fought to the end of the war supporting ground forces to the point where the fading of the Luftwaffe would have been less obvious than the ever increasing toll taken on them by groundfire:

 

On 01/04/1945 132 wing reports the loss of 13 Merlin engined Spitfires to flak. 145 Wing lost a further 5 to flak on the same day. The Third Reich was deploying its formidable flak inventory in ever decreasing circles.

 

As for being a "dead" force in the East or the West, those last few weeks of the war were characterised by more sporadic combats in skies where multiple commands on both sides (along with their diverse inventories) now overlapped eachother.

 

Based on their request for Information earlier this year, timeframe 9/44 - 3/45 is very likely:

 

 

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

Thanks for the heads up - that looks impressively comprehensive

[EAF19_Marsh]

Quote

Based on their request for Information earlier this year, timeframe 9/44 - 3/45 is very likely

 

That would push the map further West.

 

Any chance we c an get a peek at the total area?

[Rjel]

On 4/28/2018 at 5:18 AM, Uufflakke said:

 

That is actually what happens in real life this checkboard pattern when snow falls on the fields.

Some parts are covered with snow and others not.

I've seen this happening so many times and never knew how it comes. I've read on several webfora unsatisfying answers like short grass/long grass, ploughed/unploughed fields, partially fertilized fields.

 

Couldn't find a video with early snow but even with more snow the patchwork is still visible.

 

 

 

 

Like I said, I expect the map shown in the DD is a work in progress. I think though your last picture illustrates what I was trying to say. it appears as a more gradual melt off. More exposed ground but not quite bare. The videos you use show more snow "tiles" than green or brown too. I think that is a more accurate way to represent what I hope will be the map we get when Bodenplatte is released.

[andyw248]

10 hours ago, Rjel said:

Like I said, I expect the map shown in the DD is a work in progress. I think though your last picture illustrates what I was trying to say. it appears as a more gradual melt off. More exposed ground but not quite bare. The videos you use show more snow "tiles" than green or brown too. I think that is a more accurate way to represent what I hope will be the map we get when Bodenplatte is released.

 

That was exactly the first thought I had when I looked at the last of those 14 screenshots. In W Europe the snow cover does usually not persist. It melts off quickly. The time it takes to melt off seems to be affected by the kind of ground, and it creates this kind of patchwork. Very well observed!

[senseispcc]

 

When in the headquarters in the Moscow campaign in Decembre 1941 place your mouse onto the major German figther airfield... and you shall see that it mention an Italian squadron of Mc202?!

I never have encounter them in the air. But on the map they are still there. Other odity when making a "printscreen" no content of airfield does print!

 

This is not important but is one of the thing that can be corrected.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Guys talking about snow persistence please note that 1944-1945 winter in Europe was the coldest on record at the time. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

5 hours ago, senseispcc said:

 

When in the headquarters in the Moscow campaign in Decembre 1941 place your mouse onto the major German figther airfield... and you shall see that it mention an Italian squadron of Mc202?!

I never have encounter them in the air. But on the map they are still there. Other odity when making a "printscreen" no content of airfield does print!

 

This is not important but is one of the thing that can be corrected.

 

Because IL-2: Battle of Moscow included the MC.202 as a Collector Plane they had to come up with a way to include Collector Planes in the Career of that product even if it wasn't there in real life. People would be PO'ed if they bought something and then couldn't fly it in the single player.

 

What it isn't supposed to do is let that MC.202 squadron appear in the missions unless the player is involved. That was an issue at one point. I think its fixed now.

 

This is a working as intended thing.

[LesG]

Unternehmen Bodenplatte

 

The Planes started from Bremen (north Germany) to Stuttgart (south Germany) and from different Airports between this both cities.

 

 

One of the targets was Antwerpen (Belgium)

 

 

 

Big cities in this Area:

 

Stuttgart

Bremen

Mainz

Frankfurt

Köln

Düsseldorf

Aachen

Lüttich / Liege

Antwerpen

Eindhoven

Venlo

 

and other smal cities.

 

Weather conditions Ardennen 2015-2018

 

Clervaux (Ourtal, Luxembourg) 2015

 

 

Schwarzer Mann 747 Meter (Eifel, Germany) 2015

 

 

Schwarzer Mann 2016

 

 

 

 

Signal Brotange 697 Meter (Belgium) 2015

 

 

 

 

Au Château d'Isle-La-Hesse à Bastogne 2015

 

Diekirch 2017

 

 

Oberweis 2018

 

 

Vianden (Ourtal Luxembourg) 2015 - 2018

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Weather conditions 1944 Ardennen

Battle of the Bulge or Wacht am Rhein

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Winter can be very hard in this region and 1944 they had -20 degrees there. A lot of fog is normal in winter in the ardennen.

Unternehmen Bodenplatte was planned for Nov. 1944 but started in Jan. 1945 because of the bad weather.

The weather had changed in Jan. 1945 and the planes started "Unternehmen Bodenplatte" four weeks later.

Edited May 1, 2018 by LesG

[Jade_Monkey]

9 hours ago, AeroAce said:

Guys talking about snow persistence please note that 1944-1945 winter in Europe was the coldest on record at the time. 

 

That's what i thought but i didn't have a lot of proof so i didnt say anything.

 

The map should represent the winter of 44-45, not the typical winter now.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

1 minute ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

That's what i thought but i didn't have a lot of proof so i didnt say anything.

 

The map should represent the winter of 44-45, not the typical winter now.

Dude lol Band of Brothers is my evidence 

Edited April 30, 2018 by AeroAce

[Trooper117]

Replicating the conditions for the Bodenplatte operation for 'That Day' is obviously needed.... however, we won't just be fighting that battle.

We will need multiple types of conditions leading up to Bodenplatte and well before for that matter... and of course for the period well after.

I'm so pleased the dev's will be allowing for that with the selection of maps we have seen.

[IckyATLAS]

On 27/04/2018 at 6:59 PM, EAF_T_Therion said:

Very nice work!

 

Would be very interesting to know the size of the map - I think it is going to be very demanding for the systems as

the Kuban map already does. And I can imagine that this map is going to be even more populated, if I'm not wrong.

 

Anyway, looking forward to this new map! (and therefore for a new rig for sure)

 

Cheers

Size will be no problem. When Bodenplatte comes out in 2019 we will have the Titan VI with 48 GB of hellishly fast GDDR7. 

Devs will be able to increase the LOD and according to the season to put fruits on the trees. 

On 28/04/2018 at 1:47 AM, senseispcc said:

 We still do not know the region covered by the Bodenplate map? If it is the same size than one of the Russian maps it shall at least cover a major part of Belgium. From Brussels to Germany in case of Moscow map and from the sea to Germany in case of the Stalingrad map for the Kuban map something in betwen the two. And from North to South from the French frontier to the Dutch one to the north in any case. Otherwise like in many game the map shall be very small. No?! 

 

I hate small maps were you quickly bump into the limits. In airplane simulation games, maps must be very very large. First flight speed is not tank or train speed. Second on a clear sunny day visibility can be over 150km  km from above. As you move quickly across the map, a big size is important to have the sense of the immensity of space, even more when you are at 20'000 feet. A big map gives you also the possibility to fly and discover places. Ideally devs should in large maps set up surprises in certain places outside the standard mission places. Kind of hidden easter eggs, but inline with the conditions of the time.  With small maps missions become too repetitive and you cannot do them in too different ways. Yes BIG BIG maps is FREEDOM for the flight sim aficionado.

The hardware is able to handle better and better very large and data heavy maps. And large maps well detailed do increase the lifetime of the product.

 

[Boomerang]

Thank you for the update.

Maps are looking great!

[PL_Andrev]

Quote

While one part of the team has been working on the update, others have continued the development of our next big project - Bodenplatte.

 

Ech... expected tanks to cooperate with planes...

Edited May 4, 2018 by PL_Andrev

[VesseL]

Hmmm... How about the WW1 planes cooperate with WW2 planes…in MP? SP?

sry if it is answered already.

 

 

 

ed. In what map?

Edited May 4, 2018 by VesseL

[sevenless]

On ‎01‎.‎05‎.‎2018 at 12:00 AM, Jade_Monkey said:

The map should represent the winter of 44-45, not the typical winter now.

 

Err... the game will represent the timeframe Sept./44 - April/45 not only 1st January 1945.

[Jade_Monkey]

15 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

Err... the game will represent the timeframe Sept./44 - April/45 not only 1st January 1945.

[edited]

We are talking about the winter map and how much snow should be in it.

Edited May 5, 2018 by SYN_Haashashin

[sevenless]

4 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

No shit Sherlock. Way to miss the whole point there.

We are talking about the winter map and how much snow should be in it.

And that what is shown isn´t enough or what?

 

[Jade_Monkey]

24 minutes ago, sevenless said:

And that what is shown isn´t enough or what?

 

 

Maybe you should read the thread.

[Retnek]

On 27/04/2018 at 8:08 PM, coconut said:

... If the period is late winter/early spring, nature shouldn't have had time to get green yet. If it's late fall/early winter, it should already have gotten brown.

 

There is green with white, if the farmers are planting winter grain. And the German farmers did that as much as possible, because the yields of winter grain usually are higher than those of summer grain. The fields are ploughed in late summer and the the winter grain seed is sown as soon as possible. Given a mild climate in autumn and early winter, there's a carpet of 5 - 10 cm high green grain seedlings covering the farmland. It's a much thinner cover than seen with grassland, but with a thin snow cover it's that white with green. Imho they did a fine job catching this aspect.

Edited May 5, 2018 by 216th_Retnek
typo

[4driano]

Gorgeous map.
Pre-ordered already.

[UF_Viking]

What p-47 will be flyable ? The Bubbletop or the Razorback ?

 

It is ma favorite plane

[Liam8]

Looks brilliant

[I./JG1_Baron]

2 hours ago, UF_Viking said:

What p-47 will be flyable ? The Bubbletop or the Razorback ?

 

It is ma favorite plane

 

Bubble perhaps. 

[UB_Toast]

Since my Dad fought in this area I am really looking forward to seeing the countryside and experiencing the sensation of flying those magnificent aircraft that were an everyday site to Pop. He's gone now, but would have loved this game and another crack at "the Jerries". Ha ! 

[ForceToast]

Can't wait to get stuck in!